Strategy to make a 91+ LP genie

Adroit - Lost City

After recently hitting 105, I now have ~630m sp sitting here.. and thought I'd try my luck at making a 91+ genie. The only thing holding me back is deciding on some criteria to determine if I want to continue investing sp in a genie. I originally was thinking that I'd keep working on it as long as the genie had at least 90% of its possible LP (i.e. a genie that was 18/20 would be worth continuing on), although I'm thinking this may not be the best way to approach the problem. Because the sp investment per level increases exponentially, perhaps it'd make sense to be more picky at lower levels and say it needs to be 19 or 20/20 to continue working on it because the sp cost is near negligible (although mirages/time isn't free either.. so meh)

I'd rather not just choose some arbitrary number, ideally there would be some way to calculate the most efficient way to do this.. but I'm not really sure how to do this. I'll take any ideas/opinions anyone has to offer, but obviously prefer something that isn't just arbitrarily chosen.

Thanks in advance,
Adroit

Zanryu - Dreamweaver

Buy a genie. Level it to 105. Don't worry about LP, just level it. Check it after, if it's 91+ congratulations. If not, repeat the first few steps until it is.

Enjoy your new 91+ LP genie.

Walpurga - Dreamweaver

take off your clothes, build a bonfire in front of your computer, dance naked and then find 20 members of the opposite sex for a fertility ritual and sacrifice the result (s) to the gods

then you will have a 91/100 genie.

I think b:surrender

pretty sure you also have to buy one and level it

Chigenkaiona - Dreamweaver

Take your wallet out, max out all your credit cards, max out your debit account, charge as much gold as you can. Say hello to your 91/100 genie. Then donate the spare gold to the rest of the community and you might get a 100/100 while your at it.

Mizuryu - Harshlands

It's called lucky points for a reason lol.

FaceRolI - Sanctuary

if its not 27/30 i stop. so many switching trade state lvl 40-70 genies sitting in inventory .-.

Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973

I made a chart about genie rarity on the wiki a while back:
http://pwi-wiki.perfectworld.com/index.php/Genie_Rarity
It's somewhat useful in gauging the current worth of a genie.

Thrieya - Lost City

First, you must travel deep within the heart of Human Territory to the Volcanic Purgatory, where you must perform the Sacrifices Three to Lady Luck. With her blessing, you shall receive her tear, cradled deep within the petals of a Maiden's Flower. With this flower in hand, make haste to the Land of Eternal Sleep, where the Old One watches over us all in his Infinite Wisdom. Solicit the help of a Mystic to plant this offering deep within the earth of the Old One, at which point he shall grant you a great bar of his Lucky Soap. Finally, to get your genie, travel to the City of the Plume, and take a great bath in their center pond, scrubbing yourself thoroughly with the soap. Use it all up, until you find a crystal of Power inside the bar of soap. Bring this crystal to the Watcher of the Earth, and he shall grant you the genie that will be Great.

Alternatively, you could just keep on leveling a genie until it proves that it's not going to be 91+, at which point you switch to another one.

Adroit - Lost City

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

I made a chart about genie rarity on the wiki a while back:
http://pwi-wiki.perfectworld.com/index.php/Genie_Rarity
It's somewhat useful in gauging the current worth of a genie.

This is actually really interesting, gives me an idea how many mirages it'll likely require for me to make it. I'm guessing you created the chart by simulating genie leveling in a program and just counted the number of times a certain LP combination showed up and used that information to calculate the GRI. I was actually thinking about doing something similar where I simulated genie refining and used different criteria to decide whether to keep on leveling.. and then determining the mean sp + mirage cost to get my 91+ genie with each criteria. Using that information would make deciding on a criteria relatively easy, I just need to come up with a few different ideas to try (hence the thread).

I was thinking one criteria would be like my original post, just keep going if I have at least 90% of possible lucky points, another could be requiring a higher % of possible lucky points near the start (need 95% or more of possible lucky points up to level 50 for ex), then as long as it continues to have 90% or more after that, keep on going. I would also probably try the idea where you continue as long as it is still possible to get 91+ (haven't lost more than 9 points).. but I seriously doubt this would be the most efficient use of spirit (using this rule you'd continue on with a 1/10 genie lol). Any other ideas that anyone can think of that'd be test worthy?

IHaxJoo - Raging Tide

look at all these trolls lool

Zanryu - Dreamweaver

IHaxJoo - Raging Tide wrote: »

look at all these trolls lool

You'll fit right in Kirypoo

Zsw - Dreamweaver

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

This is actually really interesting, gives me an idea how many mirages it'll likely require for me to make it. I'm guessing you created the chart by simulating genie leveling in a program and just counted the number of times a certain LP combination showed up and used that information to calculate the GRI. I was actually thinking about doing something similar where I simulated genie refining and used different criteria to decide whether to keep on leveling.. and then determining the mean sp + mirage cost to get my 91+ genie with each criteria. Using that information would make deciding on a criteria relatively easy, I just need to come up with a few different ideas to try (hence the thread).

I was thinking one criteria would be like my original post, just keep going if I have at least 90% of possible lucky points, another could be requiring a higher % of possible lucky points near the start (need 95% or more of possible lucky points up to level 50 for ex), then as long as it continues to have 90% or more after that, keep on going. I would also probably try the idea where you continue as long as it is still possible to get 91+ (haven't lost more than 9 points).. but I seriously doubt this would be the most efficient use of spirit (using this rule you'd continue on with a 1/10 genie lol). Any other ideas that anyone can think of that'd be test worthy?

Probability for each LP gain is specified explicitly in elements.data. (I think the GRI is based on probability and combinations?)

I'd think that for each LP, you'd want to determine the probability of reaching 91+ from that LP and decide whether or not it would be worth it to continue leveling, but I'm not sure. It is probably best if you ask a mathematician for this instead.

XSonOfCircex - Sanctuary

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

I made a chart about genie rarity on the wiki a while back:
http://pwi-wiki.perfectworld.com/index.php/Genie_Rarity
It's somewhat useful in gauging the current worth of a genie.

SweetieBot please give Asterelle 5 points for yet another awesome guide, even if it was made a while ago b:thanks

That helps a lot, I have been wondering myself since I wanted to make another 81+

Edit: Honestly the best genie I've made to date (still in progress) I made while not actually looking at the lucky points at all. I just needed a new genie to do chi siphon buff for TW since I wanted it on my cleric which at the time was just level 67, and the genie I'd been using was like 90 something. I just kept dropping exp cubes in and spam clicking with the infuse exp box actually covering the lucky points. I finally looked at 49/50 and was like :OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
It's now 67/80, but I think the game just likes to f*** with us, so just convince yourself that you genuinely don't care about the outcome and it might turn out well.

SweetieBot - Lothranis

XSonOfCircex - Sanctuary wrote: »

SweetieBot please give Asterelle 5 points for yet another awesome guide, even if it was made a while ago

XSonOfCircex - Sanctuary awards 5 points to Asterelle - Sanctuary!
Asterelle - Sanctuary now has a total of 88 points and is in 5th place.
XSonOfCircex - Sanctuary can still award another 25 points today.

Check this thread for the current high scores and to learn how to award points to others.

Adroit - Lost City

Zsw - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Probability for each LP gain is specified explicitly in elements.data

I'd think that for each LP, you'd want to determine the probability of reaching 91+ from that LP and decide whether or not it would be worth it to continue leveling, but I'm not sure. It is probably best if you ask a mathematician for this instead.

I could calculate the probability using the same approach I just mentioned from any given LP combination.. but the question would still remain what probability would be necessary to continue going. Even an 80/80 LP genie has a less than 50% chance of making it to 91+/100, so just knowing the probability isn't likely to make the choice very clear. If I had a mathematician on speed dial I'd definitely give them a call, but I don't know any.. so I figured I'd try asking here first. I don't necessarily need the optimal solution, just a good one would work. I figured I'd just try a few guesses at what is best and simulate those.. then just pick the most efficient of the guesses and call it a day.

Fissile - Archosaur

I PMed you everything you need to know. b:kiss I'll let everyone else figure it out for themselves. b:chuckle

Porkfruit - Lost City

Hey there, I was asking the same question as you when I wanted a 91+ genie, I had some limits at the time but they weren't strict enough - I would keep going 24/30 and 42/50 genies.

After burning about 100m spirit and no success I told myself I needed to set higher limits.

What I ended up using was first of all the possibility to get to 27/30, 7/10 and higher would be worth a try. At the lower levels the spirit cost is fairly low and even bad odds aren't too costly.

Then after that I had to get minimum of 9 LPs each level, 36+/40 etc up to 63+/70 and the last 3 LP levels @ 80, 90 and 100 would be leaps of faith as long as they had the possibility of getting 91+, so even if a genie dropped below the 9 LP a level limit at 80 say 71/80 I'd still gamble the last 2 levels.

Anyway I ended up with a 97/100 one. http://i.imgur.com/DcEyL1k.png

I spent 3800 mirages and 140m spirit.

XLeeu - Heavens Tear

I have made sooo many genis in the past it's not even funny anymore....

What i have found is that i do have "better" luck in Genie's when using warsong essences to level them up instead of spirit.

This is unconfrimed but just something to think about.

xLeeu
Ieat you last

Quinnie - Heavens Tear

its just luck based.. i had bought a like 48/50 genie and managed to get it up to 87/90 and when i made it lvl 100 it turnd 89/100. same thing happend with a other genie that i got to 77/90 and turnd out 79/100. its just based on luck. like a genie that went 56/60 and ended up 62/100.

Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

This is actually really interesting, gives me an idea how many mirages it'll likely require for me to make it. I'm guessing you created the chart by simulating genie leveling in a program and just counted the number of times a certain LP combination showed up and used that information to calculate the GRI.

It's actually just a direct calculation which isn't even all that complicated.
The probability of LP 1/10 up to LP 10/10 is straightforward:
P(LP1/10) = P(1)
P(LP2/10) = P(2)
etc...
The probability of LP 2/20 up to 20/20 is based off the terms from LP XX/10.
For example P(LP 4/20) = P(LP 1/10)*P(3) + P(LP 2/10)*P(2) + P(LP3/10)*P(1)
There are 3 terms here because there are 3 different ways to arrive at LP 4/20 (LP1/10 + 3, LP2/10 + 2, LP3/10 + 1).
In general you just use the values for P(??/YY) to calc P(??/YY+10).
Really this type of thing is very easy to setup in a spreadsheet.

The probability spread makes a kind of bell curve so I basically look at what percentile each value represents.
GRI(XX/YY) is 1 / sum (P(LP XX/YY) to P(LP YY/YY))
GRI of 100 would be something in the 99th percentile... GRI of 1000 is 99.9 percentile... etc.

Adroit - Lost City

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

It's actually just a direct calculation which isn't even all that complicated.
The probability of LP 1/10 up to LP 10/10 is straightforward:
P(LP1/10) = P(1)
P(LP2/10) = P(2)
etc...
The probability of LP 2/20 up to 20/20 is based off the terms from LP XX/10.
For example P(LP 4/20) = P(LP 1/10)*P(3) + P(LP 2/10)*P(2) + P(LP3/10)*P(1)
There are 3 terms here because there are 3 different ways to arrive at LP 4/20 (LP1/10 + 3, LP2/10 + 2, LP3/10 + 1).
In general you just use the values for P(??/YY) to calc P(??/YY+10).
Really this type of thing is very easy to setup in a spreadsheet.

The probability spread makes a kind of bell curve so I basically look at what percentile each value represents.
GRI(XX/YY) is 1 / sum (P(LP XX/YY) to P(LP YY/YY))
GRI of 100 would be something in the 99th percentile... GRI of 1000 is 99.9 percentile... etc.

I really like the way you did that, a very simple/elegant solution to something I was making overly complicated.

I'm curious though, I'm trying to think of a way to use this GRI information in determining whether to give up or continue on a genie.. (or really just any method that makes sense), I'd assume you don't have the perfect answer or you'd likely have already shared (I've noticed you seem to be a little picky with your posts.. usually just dealing with facts and making sure whatever you say is correct.. a quality I really admire), but do you have any thoughts/ideas on determining a criteria for leveling genies? I can't tell if this is a really difficult problem or running off 3 hours of sleep is affecting me.. but I just can't come up with any ideas that I'm happy with atm

gyroki

A (almost) perfect genie is like an ultimate weapon: I'll wait till it becomes cheaper. There is already a "growth" factor on genie window which correlates with your "luck" to obtain more lucky points. I'll just wait till they release the CS item, before I waste tons of mirages and block the banker + inventory slots of all my characters for ages.

Fissile - Archosaur

Porkfruit - Lost City wrote: »

Hey there, I was asking the same question as you when I wanted a 91+ genie, I had some limits at the time but they weren't strict enough - I would keep going 24/30 and 42/50 genies.

After burning about 100m spirit and no success I told myself I needed to set higher limits.

What I ended up using was first of all the possibility to get to 27/30, 7/10 and higher would be worth a try. At the lower levels the spirit cost is fairly low and even bad odds aren't too costly.

Then after that I had to get minimum of 9 LPs each level, 36+/40 etc up to 63+/70 and the last 3 LP levels @ 80, 90 and 100 would be leaps of faith as long as they had the possibility of getting 91+, so even if a genie dropped below the 9 LP a level limit at 80 say 71/80 I'd still gamble the last 2 levels.

Anyway I ended up with a 97/100 one. http://i.imgur.com/DcEyL1k.png

I spent 3800 mirages and 140m spirit.

Your strategy does not seem to be a very good one. I wrote a quick genie simulator and implemented your method exactly as written. Then I used it to simulate the creation of 200 genies of 91+ lucky points. Printed below are the number of genies generated and the total amount of spirit required to generate them. On average it took over 11,000 attempts and over 1,000 million spirit (first 100 printed here). 44% of them required less than 630 million spirit, which is what Adroit has.

# Tries       Total Spirit Cost
-------------------------------
 6399         594,897,738
 1131         151,374,045
 1306         178,061,227
 9148         806,188,042
 14161        1,496,039,913
 6301         560,015,371
 25743        2,336,016,563
 6014         554,476,769
 7911         785,100,058
 21961        2,156,480,831
 8983         844,826,629
 6099         597,497,301
 2933         299,788,095
 15364        1,420,858,552
 2879         283,415,444
 7599         719,214,310
 11930        1,054,160,271
 6464         644,068,185
 10623        991,641,656
 4784         457,177,030
 26042        2,484,545,702
 2389         316,888,612
 9672         902,380,660
 4341         452,004,642
 1138         127,765,455
 3524         361,594,023
 5579         558,551,511
 11626        1,121,497,959
 6036         546,064,431
 3557         318,382,531
 45688        4,274,806,977
 10402        970,667,279
 2981         279,817,423
 9506         909,807,370
 8043         825,955,564
 23462        2,136,689,544
 5950         535,270,712
 4779         461,992,926
 5450         592,077,110
 13845        1,316,365,678
 6695         676,361,295
 51726        4,847,652,349
 582          98,880,841
 23411        2,249,683,328
 16683        1,568,070,931
 28768        2,788,258,303
 596          88,647,058
 16756        1,558,104,343
 3806         400,443,578
 4270         414,142,426
 18946        1,841,574,673
 34532        3,132,478,666
 44318        4,086,891,368
 3522         330,293,562
 17288        1,656,102,839
 20104        1,911,791,442
 10892        1,003,301,017
 10562        942,979,527
 18704        1,697,746,077
 8553         777,862,979
 7545         678,936,151
 5300         464,148,363
 915          98,541,084
 19660        1,961,159,494
 8974         783,308,682
 20729        2,014,134,698
 7265         683,550,493
 21986        2,084,443,322
 2597         262,088,510
 14250        1,369,077,455
 516          64,315,528
 14961        1,315,665,410
 14712        1,303,022,080
 19420        1,742,664,744
 1677         182,004,177
 6185         619,994,123
 5682         653,962,496
 2360         294,187,143
 2738         272,444,003
 6218         651,579,102
 4024         395,384,215
 9286         917,532,306
 11747        1,114,525,635
 11975        1,101,152,135
 2217         236,674,498
 11502        1,084,864,576
 17471        1,576,059,502
 3171         320,707,775
 13236        1,293,684,411
 3175         303,492,288
 5042         533,585,335
 33625        3,170,227,054
 2904         299,975,765
 10409        970,341,025
 29523        2,737,317,681
 1715         180,475,591
 13203        1,198,775,596
 7873         748,018,831
 14353        1,330,404,639
 1961         227,897,842

Porkfruit - Lost City

Fissile - Archosaur wrote: »

Your strategy does not seem to be a very good one. I wrote a quick genie simulator and implemented your method exactly as written. Then I used it to simulate the creation of 200 genies of 91+ lucky points. Printed below are the number of genies generated and the total amount of spirit required to generate them. On average it took over 11,000 attempts and over 1,000 million spirit (first 100 printed here). 44% of them required less than 630 million spirit, which is what Adroit has.

I read through the thread and all I saw was either irrelevant chit chat or people not willing to share their ideas with the community. I go in and drop my 2 cents and I get a slap from one of those unwilling to share. I'm not claiming my method is great or anything but if you think this is a bad method then surely you have a better one?

From your previous post I take it you don't want the public to know about better ways to make 91+ LP genies.
Are you scared lots of 91+ genies will suddenly emerge along with lots of strong players if you wrote how the best way to get a 91+ LP was leaked? Is that a bad thing?

Dylena - Raging Tide

Life would be so much easier if you could just lvl the genies 10 lvls at the time and NPC the genie right away.

Neodaystar - Sanctuary

I don't see why everyone who read that considers that to be a guide, it's just an index telling you if you have a good genie or not. No tips are tricks. If you want to have a genie with 90+ luck points, here's what you do...

Have lots of mirages (300+ is a good start), the spirit, 80+ safe slots/some storage space, and patience.

The trick of getting a good genie is to know when to level it so you don't go wasting spirit points, and setting up "mile stones". Set up a goal. If you want a 81+ luck points at least, then your goal is to keep only genies that has 80%+ LP as it levels up. If you want one that is a 91+ LP genie, then you want only to keep those that has 90%+ LP as it is leveling up. The end of the line is lvl 100 for all genies in getting lucky points.

Milestones should be at intervals of every 10 lvls after 30, since every 10 lvls is when genies get their lucky points. The first mile stone should be lvl 30, because it is easy to get genies to be 30/30 or some value that is 80-100% of its obtainable LP at lvl 30 (28/30 or 29/30). Reaching lvl 30, you can decide to keep the genie or decompose and trash it without having to wait a full week to switch to trade status.

Try to get at least 10 genies at each milestone before proceeding to level any genies pass each milestone. Because the chances of getting a genie with 90%+ of its max luck points is about 30% chance. Having 10 genies to work with at each milestone will give you better odds in getting 90%+ LP.

Milestone 1 - lvl 30
Milestone 2 - lvl 40
Milestone 3 - lvl 50
Milestone 4 - lvl 60
....


It's liking refining gear. If you are too focus on refining a single piece of equipment to 8+, by the time you get it, it may cost you a bundle. If you just refine a bunch of things without worrying about getting a particular gear to 8+, that is much more simple to do.

Zheii - Archosaur

Walpurga - Dreamweaver wrote: »

take off your clothes, build a bonfire in front of your computer, dance naked and then find 20 members of the opposite sex for a fertility ritual and sacrifice the result (s) to the gods

then you will have a 91/100 genie.

I think b:surrender

pretty sure you also have to buy one and level it

Chigenkaiona - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Take your wallet out, max out all your credit cards, max out your debit account, charge as much gold as you can. Say hello to your 91/100 genie. Then donate the spare gold to the rest of the community and you might get a 100/100 while your at it.

ROFL. these are OBVIOUSLY the best way to get a 91+ LP Genie. IJS!

WnbTank - Archosaur

The way I have made genies, multiple 80+ LP ones, no 91+ though. The feeling from going 85/90 to 86/100 and not taking the 80m offer you got while it was level 90 <.<.

But you really dont want to go with anything worse than 29/30 or even 30/30. After that point 90% is a good rule but till level 30 point just go for max as from level 40 forward it takes effing ages to get rid of them. If you have room, make lvl 1 alt and just use it`s bank/inv for failed genies to time out to be decomposed.

Level 70/80 is another point where reason to re-examine genies arrive as xp needed to level raises quite a bit and the ones who are really close at failing to hit 91+ at that point should prolly be left there and sold forward for those who dont absolutely want 91+ LP genie.

Also be ready to waste a lot of mirages, youre going to make **** ton of trash genies to make few decent ones to take further. Only minority of those good ones will get close to 90+ LP genie. And just keep in mind, you dont want to waste spirit on bad genies as there is a fine chance what you got wont be enough.

Mr_Swiss - Heavens Tear

i bought a genie from someone that was 77/80 for 4m. i got it to 87/90 with warsong ess, sold it for 270m. The person that bought it tried to level it to 100 and it turned out 88/100 lol. At that point it was worth about 15m-20m, if that. b:laughb:laughb:laugh, perfect saleb:chuckleb:chuckle

Decus - Dreamweaver

A reminder, as I didn't see it posted yet, but all LP gains are explicitly stated. If someone already posted that, then my apologies.

Ahira - Lost City

I made 91+ genie once. The 27/30 rule is a must otherwise your inventory is going to be full of npc genie's switching to trade ready.