Poll: level restrictions, how ?

GlenRoss - Archosaur

HrunsPanda - Archosaur wrote: »

The results surprise me a bit btw. Because it seems everyone wants to stop people from powerleveling 1 - 75, but noone seems to care about the selling of heads and mobs to the lvl 75+ people.

I guess I'm in the minority but I find selling bypass to the game despicable. It's a cheat. It's not how the game was intended to be played.

But I could live with it if it were just children ruining their own experience. My observation is that it has severely lowered the quality of the game, across the board. Let me preempt the expected response: My reasons for saying this are well documented in the this and the related threads. I don't feel like typing them out again over the next half-hour. But the quality of the high level players does seem to be declining: quality of fighting skill, quality of behavior and ethics. If and when I leave this game, that will probably be why.

XSonOfCircex - Sanctuary

One thing people seem to neglect is that the EXP actually already is a little bit spread, albeit not quite so much as might be intended by the poll.

The north hall pulls can give a lot of exp, as can the boss with the giant claw whose name suddenly escapes me. When I do full runs on my psy and cleric I probably wind up getting half of the total exp from that. Yes I'm aware that 1/2 for a lot more hyper exp time or a ton of activations is not the deterrent some of us would like to see against people coming in and just hypering mobs/heads, but there is actually a benefit to do doing the full thing (beyond saving money and actually learning your class a little)

I'd rather not see heads rooms sold, though I fail to see how that could be adequately addressed in a way that wouldn't limit people's ability to bring in replacements if someone needs to leave

Miugre - Heavens Tear

GlenRoss - Archosaur wrote: »

I guess I'm in the minority but I find selling bypass to the game despicable. It's a cheat. It's not how the game was intended to be played.

But I could live with it if it were just children ruining their own experience. My observation is that it has severely lowered the quality of the game, across the board. Let me preempt the expected response: My reasons for saying this are well documented in the this and the related threads. I don't feel like typing them out again over the next half-hour. But the quality of the high level players does seem to be declining: quality of fighting skill, quality of behavior and ethics. If and when I leave this game, that will probably be why.

You should roll on a more populated server like HT or Sanctuary... again, if my month on Arch taught me anything, it's that more people plvl there. Also there are way more people on HT. :P

Selak - Dreamweaver

I dislike power levelling within an MMORPG.

First it defeats the purpose of playing which is killing time.

Second the time they save in power levelling is paid for by the rest of us in time spent explaining to them how to use their skills and also the time and experience lost due to misuse of their skills during instances.

Third getting to end game boredom fastest is not winning, making the time last as long as possible without getting bored is actually winning and the only way to do this is to play the game as intended.

lordhanzo

Selak - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I dislike power levelling within an MMORPG.

First it defeats the purpose of playing which is killing time.

Second the time they save in power levelling is paid for by the rest of us in time spent explaining to them how to use their skills and also the time and experience lost due to misuse of their skills during instances.

Third getting to end game boredom fastest is not winning, making the time last as long as possible without getting bored is actually winning and the only way to do this is to play the game as intended.

Please make babies with me.

Reliea - Sanctuary

75+
That's when fcc quests start, so that's the min level that should be allowed in, if a level range is to be made for it.

We already have PV, so we don't need a PV-like situation.

More activity in the world of people 1-75 will make the game much more alive, and if people are invested in their chars by activity (questing, bhs) instead of passivity (buying fcc/powerlvling etc etc) there will be an increase in quality of playership.

Plus it would increase the value of lower level weapons/armor and stimulate that economy.

Star_Prism - Archosaur

I don't think it should be the instance itself level restricted, just the hypers. Personally I don't see why anyone under level 100 would need to use hypers any way. Every time I make a new character and level through questing I find myself dumping a ton of exp into genies just so I don't out level all my quests.

Power leveling to 100 makes about as much sense as going to the Super Bowl and the opening coin toss decides who wins instead of who gets the ball.
Reaching the end is exciting, but playing and working up to it before hand makes it even more so.

FC should be open to a player when they start getting quests in there, but hypers should not be usable in there until level 100.

yakikadafi

People shouldn't be allowed to sell FC rooms in my opinion. This was a big part of the problem. The exp is/was lovely I will admit...but I was doing full FC runs as I found them fun and challenging. The heads/mobs were the icing on the cake.

Mind you, I do realize that the selling of FC rooms was a staple income for a lot of players...coin isn't all that easy to come by. However, this just takes away from how the instance was intended to be played.

The accumulation of coin or lack thereof is a big factor/cause of issues like this. This is the main thing that needs to be addressed. The selling of FC rooms and TM mode runs are merely symptoms of this. Three years ago I played on the PWI-MS server (PWI Multi Language server which was European based), and as an American on that server I was not allowed to purchase items from the boutique. However, I had absolutely no problem obtaining ingame coin (without the exploitation of an instance) for my needs...whether it was for skills or the newest cool mount.

Sorry for my little tangent, but I felt that it was relevant. Anyhow, don't remove the hypers, just cap it into level ranges like Phoenix Valley for example. This way people still great exp...they just have to do a full run with people in their level range to get it. Like some have already stated...having mats drop again in this instance would be a good idea too.

WnbTank - Archosaur

HrunsPanda - Archosaur wrote: »

although i do also prefer no limitations, i do think you are a bit negative about the 85-95 squad possibilities I did manage to level from 75 to 100 primarily by making FC squads to do the full runs.

And that would in fact be the only thing that i'd see as positive to the whole idea of making level range limitations. If people can no longer buy exp rooms, they are gonna have to play the instance. Meaning there will be more people playing it and thus easier for me to fill my squad b:laugh (i dont like a minimum lvl 75 limitation though not because i use FC below 75, but because i use zhenning to level new alts whom i then learn to play in FC b:victory and i dont need longer lines waiting for the pits b:shocked)

Could you elaborate a bit more on those level gaps you speak about ? because when i was doing FCs about 4 months ago, i actually studied the exp formula and came to the conclusion that the proper level range for a squad is simply 20 levels. I started teaching people about this and make squads with a range larger than 10 whenever i could. And practice proved it to be right.
More important than the level range is the break points above level 90 where your exp goes rapidly downward from being more than 2 levels above the lvl 88 mobs.

Actually flexible limit wouldnt make it impossible to sell XP rooms. I would only level myself 80-85 seeker to which I give the instance when it`s cleared and would sell it on said toon. With seeker I could solo mobs for client if he/she needed it. With level 80-85 alt I can cover all relevant levels with my sin.

Reason why flexible squad wouldnt prevent giving instance to alt is because there still is nothing, which prevents squading with anybody you feel like. You dont have to be inside the instance the same time, only give lead to alt and leave squad & instance. As a result instance is still at the point it was left due how ownership of instances works.

This would actually raise xp room prices as it takes extra steps to do it properly if said change is made, which results in less supply for rooms and like logic dictates, bigger job = bigger fee.

Only to make it prevent selling FC would mean adjusting either in limiting who people can squad, limiting squading options while in FC or changing how instances reset. None is a subject I would like our dev team to play with for fearing what they might break touching them.

Your number 99% done for levels 75+ in following post is bit off. I remember doing some for FCs for level 75- clients but even if I had 10 such clients during fall I doubt, it would still make ratio 95% being 75+. Its not far off but use of 99% has really bad taste in it, its by far most abused "math argument" ever.

krisnda

I was going to make another thread lol, oh well.

Miugre - Heavens Tear

Krisnda wrote: »

I was going to make another thread lol, oh well.

Well, let's keep this one bumped so it's still being voted on, eh?

Salari - Raging Tide

I say set the min level to that of the first quest you have FCC, which I can not remember off hand what it is. But personal it should be reverted back to its original form.

Miugre - Heavens Tear

Would really like to keep this on the first page if it's still actively being discussed; if not, we need to get an official word from v4liance on what action he'll be taking with the results of the polls in this and the original thread.

seitori

((The basic announced level restriction FC already had on it should of always been enforced on it, there shoulda never been a way for anyone to bypass it to begin with))b:thanks

And me and many of the others like myself who constituted the original QQ'rs on this subject back in the even worse days of 'GOONING Glitch' capable FC runs, mainly despised only the 'Total Fail Babies' who did nothing but FC they're ways from (level-1^up) because they still had kindergarten leveled class skills that they not only didn't know how to use effectively (in squad or otherwise) but also could never level up much at all anyways do to their complete lack of SP to put into leveling them in the first place...b:flowerb:surrenderb:fatb

Ultimately, very few of us ancient hardcore QQ'rs ever looked down on those who did power leveling from their 75th level onwards (so long as they cleaned out their own waiting quest listings first ~ and as such had nothing left to do) before they switched to power leveling their ways to the next level through the remaining xp gap that was still there after they were done questing (H&ll I didn't even mind someone compiling 5 levels of untouched quests (through powerleveling) so long as they went back to eventually finish the finite amounts of quests one was given (per level) from the 80s onwards back then (so long as they went back in to clean out their listings again, to keep their (Sp & Rep's) up to date with what they could gain from them, so we knew they'd be able to keep up with the demands of the squads they needed to join up with in later levels)


Those that chose to do only moderate FC leveling through the lack of quest & Xp void's of the later levels, were rarely ever looked down on by any of us, because after all they actually knew (not only how to use their classes) but also had been able to keep up their characters skills & levels to what they needed for their levels...


((After all who wants a 90th+ level cleric who doesn't even have (Pury or IH) to begin with (let alone never knows how to use them correctly) to ever be on our squads? Or hear them whine about us, because we have a set level of competency standards to begin with and as such never taked them seriously to begin with (short of being a danger to us and the rest of our (truely experienced) squadmates)???))b:pleased

Miugre - Heavens Tear

Bumping this one last time. I would've made a new thread on the topic of an official response, but the last one of such threads was locked. :-/

Some are saying that Val's assertion that this needs to be looked at "over a long period of time" was a direct response to the issue. Unfortunately, it it not. After over 75 pages of discussion, ~1500 votes in the first poll and 138 on this one, a rough consensus has appeared and it now needs to be met with at least an acknowledgement from Val. The next step is for Val to put this through to wanmei (ideally with a copy of any correspondence sent to them posted here), and advise them to act on the community opinion here. The goal should be to implement the fix by the next content update or expansion.

Those who have followed these forums for a few years (particularly during frankieray's day) are well aware of the tendency for important issues to get lost, sidelined, or outright ignored by the PWE staff and/or wanmei. The issue of Frost powerleveling has not been satisfactorily addressed by PWE/wanmei since its advent, and I am significantly worried that this discussion, too, will fall by the wayside and that nothing will be done.

Nothing much else to say here... whether or not this fix happens, the poll results still need to be addressed.

Mr_Swiss - Heavens Tear

No change, just like I said would happen. they are not going to put effort into changing it, when they can easily go the quick route and turn it back on.

Miugre - Heavens Tear

Mr_Swiss - Heavens Tear wrote: »

No change, just like I said would happen. they are not going to put effort into changing it, when they can easily go the quick route and turn it back on.

Val did say that they'd be turned on again this week. He also said that this merits more discussion as many people spoke out against powerleveling. That doesn't translate into "wanmei is taking the easy route." That translates into "wanmei is making the quick change now and we have to discuss the longer change."

All I'm saying is I'd like for Val to make good on that statement. If he thinks this bears more discussion, I'd like to know how he would prefer the discussion move forward. We've had over 1500 people weigh in on the issue, so it's about time we heard either an answer, or some "next steps" if Val doesn't think the discussion has gone far enough along yet.

Chigenkaiona - Dreamweaver

Mr_Swiss - Heavens Tear wrote: »

1: Why another poll? 2: Level ranges has already been discussed, which means guess what? LEVEL RANGES, which includes a minimum, maximum, minimax, pv style etc 3: What the hell is Flexible level range?

Unless people find glitchy ways to sneak in a higher level, as it's been done with TM runs.