PvP Equipment Advice

Deadalus - Harshlands

Hey all,

i read the sticky thread about endgame pvp gear but there are only r9 gear showed, so i go and ask here heh.

I make something pretty clear: I do not upgrade to any r9 parts, because its just too expensive for me. End of Story.

That being said, lets start my questions b:chuckle


So i cant decide, which equipment is better for PvP use only.
http://pwcalc.com/8b7efaf999b112e8

This is how my Sin looks like at the moment, is that suitable for PvP? I know, that i lack of DEF, but what can i do to change it? I want to increase my DEF but all i can do is upgrade my ornaments or would it make sense, to remove some HP stones and put some DEF ones in it?
No, i cant afford VIT or DEF Lv stones at the moment, so i have to stick with HP and/or DEF stones.
Also what is better, using Jones Blessing for the 30 Attack level, or O'Maleys Blessing, for the 15DEF Lv + 15 Attack Level?


This is another Build i can switch to:
http://pwcalc.com/ae7ff4aa34e28b62

Again the question with the Blessings (Jones or O'Maleys) and/or the HP and DEF stones.
Also does it makes sense to even use the Daggers for PvP? I think, the ZerkCrit's can be usefull, but ppl say, the g16 are FAR better, because of the 40 Attack Level.
Is that true?


Also i can use both builds above with some swapped equipment parts also:
http://pwcalc.com/3b6ba205eb658e19

This is the more aps one, but i guess that wont change a thing, better use the g15/16 parts, right? For more HP and Attack level.


Opinions?

Cofari - Heavens Tear

Option 1 with the S3+10 weapon is the best. You have better def, a TON of more HP, and better damage output. In PVP it's highly unlikely that you'll triple spark, so 2.86 vs. 3.33 isn't that big of a deal. The massive difference in damage per hit of the S3 is going to more than make up for the slight drop in DPS vrs. the S2.

For those that might say "I triple spark all the time" that only works if you are in a team that is locking the enemy in place. Usually when I triple spark, people run, and I waste my spark. I'd rather use the chi for stun>power dash.

Regarding the def, if you can't afford higher level stones, I'd stick with the ones you have and put some coin into refining the ornaments a bit more (for the pdef) and buying up some magic def charms to pop on a regular basis during PVP.

As for the omalleys vs jones it all depends on how you find the PVPs running. I'd switch back and forth and see how your survivability changes. If killing faster improves your survivability then go jones, if you find you die too easily and an Omalley's improves your survivability go there. Damage output of any toon is always 0 when you're dead.

Personally, I'd go with Omalleys for any group PVP environment, and Jones for 1-1. In a group PVP environment, the 15 extra attack levels don't do **** for you against the other 3 people hitting you from out of your range.

Deadalus - Harshlands

Thank you for the info.

I never triple spark in PvP, except for testing and/or scaring purposes. I rather use my sparks on better things like stunning.

one thing makes me wanna use the g15, ther Zerk.

Because of the high spikes of the ZerkCrits, the duell can end with you alive.
Maybe i have to test this one further, but those sexy damage numbers, when zerk hits b:chuckle

Also i call Zerk a 20% crit rate boost, because its like having 20% more crit. Also you can crit on your crit, makes it even more better lol.
Ofc this would mean, the critrate would be like 55%, but well, maybe its kinda right

Zendrago - Raging Tide

No, that wouldn't be right at all.

Let's say an assassin has 40% crit (and that's a lot for a typical sin).
A 15% Sac Strike gets you = 1.61, i.e 61% more damage.
A 20% GoF gets you = 1.68, i.e 68% more damage.

Zerk attacks don't add on to crit; this is precisely why Zerk Crits are so deadly (they stack multiplicatively).

And as for the chance for double damage; that's also different.

The chance, at 40% crit again, to get double or quadruple damage:
Sac: 49%
GoF: 52%

Also, you seem to assume that G15 is decent for skillspamming, compared to G16.
I'm afraid that won't really be the case

Even though the small % for quadruple damage (6-12%) is tempting, in the long run, you'd benefit more from the G16's attack levels.
What's more, GoF hurts. Sometimes you may live by 5% hp; with a GoF, you might not have that HP to spare.

O'Malleys vs Jones: Yeah, no. Just go with the best option and get both. Put both on your skillbars, and switch when you need defense/attack. If the best PvPers can switch from full R9 to aps, and I can switch blessings and my ornaments, then a simpleton should be able to change just one slot.

For your gear, I'd recommend getting another physical ring to replace the R8. You'll get more physical and magical defense, at the small cost of a bit of damage and some other things.

The only way your defense is going to go up permanently is via refines and gems, which you imply you can't afford at the moment... so yes, defense charms will be good. But I'd still tell you to get +6 on at least all items. It's relatively cheap.

Source: I wrote the PvP sin guide lol

Deadalus - Harshlands

i see.

I didnt say, that SS adds crit, but acts like one, even when you dont crit, thats what i mean .

I actually did some test duells and saw, that the normal damage of the g16 is better, but cant compare to the zerkcrits, the g15 can throw at enemys sometimes.
With sometimes, its actually more or less once/twice in a duell at best, yes i want to skillspam, thats why i think, that g15 where better here.
Ofc it is a loss of 40 attack levels (106 attack level, when i have Chill on) against just having the chance of hitting x4 the damage.

Actually i want to exchange my Lunar ring at some point with sky cover and switch them around, when i need more def and switch back, when i can tank but it can go faster without danger.
i like the r8 ring, it adds just good damage and HP. 4% Crit are good, 180HP also and the bit more attack are good to have. Its a ring for free, so i use it. But yes, saw it comming, that it have to bite the dust sometime. Have to get my lazy *** into some instances to farm some money to refine...


Thanks alot b:victory

Olbaze - Sanctuary

Zen's got it mostly covered, so I'm not going to say much.

However, he misses one thing. G15 is a weapon that just doesn't fit into theories. In an ideal scenario, G15 is the best weapon to have. That is to say, any weapon with SS or GoF has the highest potential damage. On the other hand, on average, it's not that good. And furthermore, the average is only going to be an accurate representation in situations where we have a massive quantity of attacks. In PvP, this isn't the case.

And when you're forced to throw out the average as a useless guidepost, you're left with looking at the worst case scenario: No crits, no procs, minimum damage. And in these scenarios, G16 is by far the best weapon, as it has a naturally high base damage, best refines and the effect the attack levels have doesn't change: unlike GoF/SS, Attack Levels are a constant multiplier rather than an average one.

And I'll be personal for a moment: I really, really dislike it when I see people running around with a +10-12 weapon sharded with Garnet Gems while their armors are +5-7 with Immaculates. That's just bad management right there. Especially in PvP, where majority of enemies either die too fast anyway, or they last a decent while. And if they last, then you'd better be able to last as well. And if your enemy is the kinda that doesn't drop dead instantly from a +10-12 weapon, then you can be sure as hell that they're not walking around with +5-7 armors sharded with freaking Immaculates.

Another thing: Refine your ornaments. Majority of people completely neglect their accessories because they cannot see the effect as anything but x% more damage reduction. For example, in your first calc, by refining your G15 bracers to +7 you gain 176 hp, but if you were to instead refine your ring from +3 to +6, your pdef reduction would go from 51% to 52%, giving you 180 hp.

Deadalus - Harshlands

well, for farming purposes, its enough.
having +5~7 armor is good enough, to go in 3-3 and do it duo with a BM (did that countless times).

but yes i actually see the problem, when i dont have enough DEF. I actually think, that having higher refined ornaments are better than refine more into the equipment itself at the moment.
More HP is fine and all, but my def is just too low.

ofc i never do 3-3 without any buff i can grab, but when im full buffed, i can tank it (more or less), but the higher instances are a problem lile warsong, the bosses hit like a truck.

Well anyway, for pvp i need more def for now, so im going to refine my ornaments.

Oh and Olbaze, i only used that sin for farming purposes and you know it just like i do, when you dont have a high refined weapon, squads wont invite you (Nirvana). I quittet like a year ago and came back, thats why my sin is like this and now i want to PK more b:chuckle

Deadalus - Harshlands

So, here i am again.

I was thinking, on how i can improve my gear to survive PK (in my term, NW is the largest battlefield, because i never PK on the popular places like Westgate or Heavens Tear) but also be able to kill thinks -fast-.

This throws in this Build:

http://pwcalc.com/9b330a1a651f530f

because of the help from the double drop, i managed to get almost everything expensive i need to build that stuff, except the Molds, which would take awhile or not to drop, depends on my dropluck honestly.
As you can see (compared to this setup http://pwcalc.com/8b7efaf999b112e8 ) my defence goes up, my def level goes up and my attack level goes up aswell.
also i think, i only can stick to +5 refine to this very point, because all my money i have left would be thrown in to make these gear and with little money left, i could afford only +5 refine.

Also i could sell all those goldmats and greenmats i farmed in tt to refine my gear i have now to higher numbers, like +7 everything or maybe +10 an ornament for example.

Also i tried to kill people in NW with only using skills, went horribly wrong, because i hit them with so little damage (can call it Luck, when i can hit someone with over 2k damage, crit. Not speaking of really undergeared players) and i die most of the times.
Then i switched back to APS (well just turned off Chill of the deep..." and was able to kill those people with no problem, which just killed me a few seconds ago.
maybe it depends on the situation im in, but i fell, that i practiced with APS alot since i have that gear, that i became good at it (not just double click and prey).

For example, a very common battle i have is against BMs in NW, most of them switch to claws after they stunned me and aps me. So for this example i allways use rib strike from stealth or when i see them using claws before me, then some control skill like sleep, throuthcut and tackling, powerdash and aps his face. He dies very quickly.

The next example i tried (using the exact same opponend due duell after nw just to test this out, PK situation, so the charm can tick) i used just skills. ofc with Chill, the APS i have is worthless and using skills would kick more damage in as aps him.
So i tried and tried, but the fight went long and at some point i died at him. I wasnt able to kill him, because i dont have a high spike damage to count on like ZerkCrit.
I tried, just to make this out, with G15 Zerk daggers and they made pretty good, it was a bit better than with G16, but still, not enough, because the 40 Attack Level are missing.

Soooo... When i watch Videos from sins using everything BUT r9 Daggers, they aps things and it goes very well, just like i do. Most of the Youtubers get r9 daggers over time and start using chill and go to DPH and it goes very well due to zerk.

im missing this, Zerk would just be perfect on g16 but i guess it would make r9 just a little sissi against it and noone would get r9 then (except for them, who are aiming for recast).


So the question is, would it even make any sense, to switch to full g16? I mean i would survive longer with the more def and def lv but would lack DPS and gaining (little) DPH.
Ofc the DEF alone would be doomed, when i instead refine an ornament to a higher grade instead using that money to build full g16.


Im very aware of the fact, that r9 recast casters have that purify addon on their weapons and makes aps not the best choice, but these characters are most of the time very OP anyway and out of my league (not that i never killed some, but still, they are hard to beat).
Using skills on them can trigger the purify spell too, so when you need long for them (especially on them hard hitting casters), it wont make any difference if you now try and aps them, try to kill them with skills or ignore them and search for a different opponent without such a weapon.

WnbTank - Archosaur

If you want to have a chance against R999 casters, you need least R9 daggers, with how cheap it is to go from R9 to R999, we should speak of R999 daggers. As those daggers have so high spike, full R999 works fairly well with them and added defenses allow you to take hits. G16 is pretty much just farming weapon, which worked well in PvP before R999 era.

But if R999 daggers are outside of your budget, just try to ignore and avoid R999 casters. The purify proc is sadly stupid broken and you really cant gain much points from focusing on them.

Sakubatou - Sanctuary

WnbTank - Archosaur wrote: »

If you want to have a chance against R999 casters, you need least R9 daggers, with how cheap it is to go from R9 to R999, we should speak of R999 daggers. As those daggers have so high spike, full R999 works fairly well with them and added defenses allow you to take hits. G16 is pretty much just farming weapon, which worked well in PvP before R999 era.

But if R999 daggers are outside of your budget, just try to ignore and avoid R999 casters. The purify proc is sadly stupid broken and you really cant gain much points from focusing on them.

Honestly, we should start a thread on killing r9t3 casters. Its frustrating in NW how many sins aps them while people who know what they're doing are pulling their hair out wishing the sin would just be killed off because a 1v1 would be easier.

Deadalus - Harshlands

Yea, sadly they are out of my range and even when i could afford them, refine them to +10 is another story.

We could discuss the point in "how cheap it is to recast them", but i assume thats a no point, when you even cant afford them in the first place (recast is around 500mil on Harshlands) and this has to come from somewhere too b:thanks

Well anyway, i dont think, that G16 is for farming purposes "only", because they can hit hard, not as hard as R9+ could hit you for, but still, the 40 Attack Level are somewhat noticeable.
But when g16 isnt a pvp weapon, which weapon is it, except r9? Which weapon is the pvp counterpart from r9, when g16 isnt.

Well anyway, MAYBE when there is another super sale on r9, i might be able to buy it, but heh, now im just talking, i think this super sale will not be here anytime soon (not mentioning this 20% sale we getting today, but thats still alot of money which would go into just making this weapon lol).

But i was asking about the G16 set, when im not going the DPH way, its not worth getting, or am i missing something very important here?
When im in NW, i have around 2.86APS (With windshield 3.33 but i never really use that skill, i have to spend my genie on better skills, like control skills) 71 or 56 attack level and 0 - 15 DEF level, depending on which blessing i use.
I could use the equipemt for 3.33aps without the genie skill and boost up to 4aps with the skill, but having a loss in 700HP and 5 attack level wont make this up, because i never use aps skill from the genie nor using tripple spark too often.

b:victory

WnbTank - Archosaur

Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »

Honestly, we should start a thread on killing r9t3 casters. Its frustrating in NW how many sins aps them while people who know what they're doing are pulling their hair out wishing the sin would just be killed off because a 1v1 would be easier.

I think major part of that is simply not knowing what R999 weapons look like and some, like I myself, have video as far back as it goes. making harder to see the weapon. Axes, bows, etc. Bigger weapons arent hard recognize but Ill be damned if I can tell one soul sphere from another. The R999 weapon skins I can think of w/o looking dont even look like OP weapons. Archer R999 is perfect example, it looks like a damn OHT/who cares it`s **** bow. I think R9 bow skin isnt too pretty but it was easily recognized for OP gear. Least I had few surprises of "WTF?" before I learned to look for R999 bow and not assume its OHT bow or something else similarly terrible.

@OP: If you arent going for DPH sin, G16 isnt the set for you. If you are going to be aps sin, you can shard/refine aps set higher and open yourself more options to farm. Its lot cheaper to work on only 1 set of gear than on 2.

Flamespirit - Dreamweaver

I'm not 100% sure for pvpv that a sin should not be using all mag resist ornaments and shard full saphire gems. In Nw you are most likely to die from a magic attack although there are archers out there too, Chances are it's not a barb,bm, or other sin that you will be fighting. It is probably a wizzy,psy,mystic,cleric, seeker,or veno.

WnbTank - Archosaur

Flamespirit - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I'm not 100% sure for pvpv that a sin should not be using all mag resist ornaments and shard full saphire gems. In Nw you are most likely to die from a magic attack although there are archers out there too, Chances are it's not a barb,bm, or other sin that you will be fighting. It is probably a wizzy,psy,mystic,cleric, seeker,or veno.

The reason for p.def orns is -int set bonus. I myself would use elemental cube neck and warsong belt from barb on sin during NW if I hadnt restatted her into min str to wear gear after bonuses. Aka if I take my TT99 belt off, I wont have enough str to wield my armors. I am not sure but I also might have str engraving on neck so even having str engraving on cube neck wouldnt help <.<.

danewb13

HI, sorry for hi-jacking the thread. Since non-r9 gears are being discusssed, I would just like to ask if the gears for my sin is enough. I haven't tried going pvp mode yet, just duels. And while dueling, I change the necklace to a +9 g16 Mdef cube if against casters.

http://pwcalc.com/1aa5c8cc8f2c1049

I basically chose the r8r set in order to have better def and mdef, g15 refines, and 3.33 aps when lion heart neck is worn.

Will this set be enough for non and basic r9 pvp or should I change the dagger to g16 and the stones to josd?