Perfect World International: The Training Grounds

TheDan - Sanctuary

I'm a noobie first time wizard in PvP, but rate and comment anyway! Let me know if I should keep making Wizard videos too!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CYiElNiEu6c

opkossy

Why did you put this in the BM section too, Dan?

Bad! Now go put on your loincloth and poledance for all the men in Regi. b:cute

Joshcja - Sanctuary

needs...

hailstorm/pitfall/not tanking stuns with face then again I'm a fan of demon SR/ember.

Seriously though you can see the exact point in each extended point where he runs our of chi, and you dont take advantage of that opening for free hits.

On the note of hail/pit they're freebies if you see a demon chi skill or theres a good distance.

On the tankign stuns with face, you overextend on FoW a LOT and blink before or after you need to. (On the note of low chi that was a good chance to stall in roar) if sprints are on CD and he's burned geni just path for distance and a hail/pit chance plus you save blink to try for more roar/drake stall

A few times there was a delay as you forgot where a key was entirely may want to shift to a different key setup

Final note, your trying for crit bypass too hard, spark+sutra/hellspring is faaar more frightening on a bm than sleep>rock

I know adriot posts vids... but really, deeeamooon for map pvp (tw I would say sage but ya)

TheDan - Sanctuary

Joshcja - Sanctuary wrote: »

needs...

hailstorm/pitfall/not tanking stuns with face

then again I'm a fan of demon SR/ember

I'm working on switching to demon =x Sage lacks control skills so badly, hard to finish a combo without getting interrupted lol.

Joshcja - Sanctuary

TheDan - Sanctuary wrote: »

I'm working on switching to demon =x Sage lacks control skills so badly, hard to finish a combo without getting interrupted lol.

Extended post with thigns that help as sage the issues your mainly havign arent really demon/sage but dan based tbh

If ten had a rankps (thats what its called now) set you'd be dead b4 fort in current gear with no puri and his chi issues would be nowhere near as severe.

That said this may be a forum 1st, legit "hey critique this" vid. Cant trash too hard

(needs better fashion)

edit: gonna go look at the wizzie forums and see if I missed anything/threw in extra's for my ego's sake

TheDan - Sanctuary

Joshcja - Sanctuary wrote: »

Extended post with thigns that help as sage the issues your mainly havign arent really demon/sage but dan based tbh

If ten had a rankps (thats what its called now) set you'd be dead b4 fort in current gear with no puri and his chi issues would be nowhere near as severe.

That said this may be a forum 1st, legit "hey critique this" vid. Cant trash too hard

(needs better fashion)

edit: gonna go look at the wizzie forums and see if I missed anything/threw in extra's for my ego's sake

I was kind of experimenting between spamming sage gush vs hailstorm / pitfall, the biggest turn off with the sage hailstorm and pitfall is the low % proc rate though, I kind of expected to be able to kite somewhat with sage gush being 45% slow, but the leaps messed me up with it having the brief tidal protection buff.

Eh, fists are great for building chi for the stun-locks but also loses the ability to by-pass charm at half life before tick. We probably would have exchanged way less hits, being both of us being squishier. Guess it would've came down more to skill than anything, which I don't really have on wizard lol.

We were both missing AEU skills and gear somewhat so it was kinda even gear wise. Arcane defense would have helped me tremendously as would reckless rush for him.

Sakubatou - Sanctuary

TheDan - Sanctuary wrote: »

I'm working on switching to demon =x Sage lacks control skills so badly, hard to finish a combo without getting interrupted lol.

Lol, Deja vu right?

Joshcja - Sanctuary wrote: »

you overextend on FoW a LOT and blink before or after you need to.

....

Final note, your trying for crit bypass too hard, spark+sutra/hellspring is faaar more frightening on a bm than sleep>rock

Was gonna suggest both of these but am far from decent at wizard pk, just know what works against me.

It looked good but you seemed to spam FoW at in opportune times rather than alternate it and Shrink together. FoW is best used either after a charm tick as a save or in a combo with shrink/whirlwind/pitfall or any of the other control skills to extend a solid 10-15 seconds where you can stand and dd. Multiple times you had his charm in cd and near a kill and he got in range and stunned. What you were doing was good just the timing wasn't comfortable yet.

And I agree that Essential Sutra can be more beastly than any of the ultis, especially with all the status effects and slows sage has. The 2 sparks is painful but there is some decent chi growth you can do back in only 6 seconds.

Joshcja - Sanctuary

TheDan - Sanctuary wrote: »

I was kind of experimenting between spamming sage gush vs hailstorm / pitfall, the biggest turn off with the sage hailstorm and pitfall is the low % proc rate though, I kind of expected to be able to kite somewhat with sage gush being 45% slow, but the leaps messed me up with it having the brief tidal protection buff.

Eh, fists are great for building chi for the stun-locks but also loses the ability to by-pass charm at half life before tick. We probably would have exchanged way less hits, being both of us being squishier. Guess it would've came down more to skill than anything, which I don't really have on wizard lol.

We were both missing AEU skills and gear somewhat so it was kinda even gear wise. Arcane defense would have helped me tremendously as would reckless rush for him.

Checked wiz forum, sweet I didnt miss anything.

between pit/hail even at level 10 only you have roughly a 50% freeze chance if you get both off. its 3 seconds of kite skill CD or a free bypass chance

BM note:

I remember my out of date +12 deicides being able to dps kill non heavily garnet sharded wizzies in 2 stuns. The only way I saw the bm kill you was when you burned your geni early or he got a stupid crit/zerk chain

Still dont get the "fists get you killed faster" idea with the abundance of g 15-16 int HA we have now. The warsong belt alone raises your mag survival considerably higher than that of r9 1st cast. More importantly... you can actually use apocs for survival instead of white tea's.

Was doing the dps vs dph calc for 3rd cast R9 axes vs g 16 fists at 4.0 base on a non purify target in a 1v1 and noticed 2 things.

A: on most high physically defensive targets you can DB (pretty much your best bypass skill) at almost exactly 51% if you roar and punch to 35 chi. (DB stun is where the killing happens with WS/EP) so you can actually punch a bit>cyclone>DB and have your charm bypass cake and make them eat your fists too.

B: With certain builds nothing but r9 3rd cast mid to high end zerk crit will bypass and you will NOT ever have the dps with axes to dpskill on said targets. A self buffed R999 BM in mag marrow for example should have 14k phys def giving you an absolute high end zerk crit with R999 +12 2x drakeflame axes of 9.5k on your 16-25k hp target. The window for bypass working is roughly 15kphys-25k hp/30kphys-18k hp after these stats (not counting def levels) you start needing amps. I say roughly here because I was assuming 25k clean damage per skill some skills do go over this but many go under 23-30k is your realistic clean skill damage range before phys def pvp reduction and def level vs your amps is taken into account.

C: because of B if the opponent has puri and a physically defensive build (garn gems over DOD's) on any class with a self phys buff over 100% or is fully buffed give up.

TL;DR Axes are hella usefull however there is a very small gear group that is more vulnerable to axes than fists while still being killable by anything aside from a prayer in a cold hell coming true style RNG break.

TheDan - Sanctuary

Joshcja - Sanctuary wrote: »

Checked wiz forum, sweet I didnt miss anything.

between pit/hail even at level 10 only you have roughly a 50% freeze chance if you get both off. its 3 seconds of kite skill CD or a free bypass chance

BM note:

I remember my out of date +12 deicides being able to dps kill non heavily garnet sharded wizzies in 2 stuns. The only way I saw the bm kill you was when you burned your geni early or he got a stupid crit/zerk chain

Still dont get the "fists get you killed faster" idea with the abundance of g 15-16 int HA we have now. The warsong belt alone raises your mag survival considerably higher than that of r9 1st cast. More importantly... you can actually use apocs for survival instead of white tea's.

Was doing the dps vs dph calc for 3rd cast R9 axes vs g 16 fists at 4.0 base on a non purify target in a 1v1 and noticed 2 things.

A: on most high physically defensive targets you can DB (pretty much your best bypass skill) at almost exactly 51% if you roar and punch to 35 chi. (DB stun is where the killing happens with WS/EP) so you can actually punch a bit>cyclone>DB and have your charm bypass cake and make them eat your fists too.

B: With certain builds nothing but r9 3rd cast mid to high end zerk crit will bypass and you will NOT ever have the dps with axes to dpskill on said targets. A self buffed R999 BM in mag marrow for example should have 14k phys def giving you an absolute high end zerk crit with R999 +12 2x drakeflame axes of 9.5k on your 16-25k hp target. The window for bypass working is roughly 15kphys-25k hp/30kphys-18k hp after these stats (not counting def levels) you start needing amps. I say roughly here because I was assuming 25k clean damage per skill some skills do go over this but many go under 23-30k is your realistic clean skill damage range before phys def pvp reduction and def level vs your amps is taken into account.

C: because of B if the opponent has puri and a physically defensive build (garn gems over DOD's) on any class with a self phys buff over 100% or is fully buffed give up.

TL;DR Axes are hella usefull however there is a very small gear group that is more vulnerable to axes than fists while still being killable by anything aside from a prayer in a cold hell coming true style RNG break.

Yeah, everything you mentioned about the wizard was spot on, I've got a lot of work to do.

As far as the DPS vs DPH I'll agree with you that fists being the better choice against a non R999 opponent, but you'll probably disagree with me when it comes to R999; I don't feel DPS builds are viable for PvP against R999. I mean R9 yes, but not R999. R999 + morai skills together were pretty much especially designed to counter DPS.

Archer leaps, Wizard arcane defense, cleric magical shackle, barb blood rush + bestial rage, veno blazing barrier, mystic invigorate, seeker sacrificial strike + magical zerk crits, BM reckless rush working with all weapons except fist, etc

Fists are great pre R999 and AEU/Morai skills, but I'm starting to have trouble seeing their usefulness in end game PvP (r999) now with how much the game has changed. Axes overtake fists in NW, TW, and with R999 and morai aeu skill changes starting to overtake 1v1 too.

Don't get me wrong, fists will always out DPS Axes against HA targets especially with a wood pot, but the way the game has changed, R999 is almost required to tank another R999. Although fists can get the kill easier, and even though axes won't bypass charm tick against HA, it's still possible to kill another HA with a 100 STR mire genie + reckless rush execution at 25%, giving you a full 10 seconds after charm tick to take down 75% of their HP with a 55% phys def reduction with mire + still having enough genie energy to use occult too.

Joshcja - Sanctuary

TheDan - Sanctuary wrote: »

Yeah, everything you mentioned about the wizard was spot on, I've got a lot of work to do.

As far as the DPS vs DPH I'll agree with you that fists being the better choice against a non R999 opponent, but you'll probably disagree with me when it comes to R999; I don't feel DPS builds are viable for PvP against R999. I mean R9 yes, but not R999. R999 + morai skills together were pretty much especially designed to counter DPS.

Archer leaps, Wizard arcane defense, cleric magical shackle, barb blood rush + bestial rage, veno blazing barrier, mystic invigorate, seeker sacrificial strike + magical zerk crits, BM reckless rush working with all weapons except fist, etc

Fists are great pre R999 and AEU/Morai skills, but I'm starting to have trouble seeing their usefulness in end game PvP (r999) now with how much the game has changed. Axes overtake fists in NW, TW, and with R999 and morai aeu skill changes starting to overtake 1v1 too.

Don't get me wrong, fists will always out DPS Axes against HA targets especially with a wood pot, but the way the game has changed, R999 is almost required to tank another R999. Although fists can get the kill easier, and even though axes won't bypass charm tick against HA, it's still possible to kill another HA with a 100 STR mire genie + reckless rush execution at 25%, giving you a full 10 seconds after charm tick to take down 75% of their HP with a 55% phys def reduction with mire + still having enough genie energy to use occult too.

Eh most of the skills listed are just general mele hate and actually make chi conservation better, purify/SoS are really the only hardcore "dont use fists" skills

Again its not like you need to sac def for fists, full g 15-16 high base defense stat HA is a pretty easy set to make but thats my personal endgame preference.

The issue winds up being that fists can kill about anything BUT an arcane with purify/SoS and fists come out on targets you cant really kill with axes sans stupid luck. Put simply there will be mages we flat out cannot kill, ever, I see no reason to sac my HA and AA matchups to take the 100% loss vs em to 99% loss.

Then again I've been planning full saph gem endgame ever since I first saw the purify proc. If I cant kill them...they dont get to kill me either >.>

On the note of rush+mire+Oi+nuke, I'm not a fan simply because its just insanely easy for even a HA class to geni/apoc/skill out of it and you've now burned all your resources. Not saying it cant work but your overcommiting to the kill and praying to the crit zerk gods.

Axes will never be the 1v1 killer fists are but in group pvp we simply do not have the luxury of single target killing its spike and go, axes are smexy. Purify and SoS force us to axe 1v1 but I would never recommend axes as a kill weapon (aside from the 51% bypass DB/Aoelian blade lock combo) vs a non purify/SoV user in a 1v1 situation.

Maelael - Heavens Tear

Joshcja - Sanctuary wrote: »

Then again I've been planning full saph gem endgame ever since I first saw the purify proc. If I cant kill them...they dont get to kill me either >.>.

Funny you mention this. Because after last Sunday's NW, and the large proliferation of Purify Spell casters, this may be a more viable build.

I ran across one of my faction's uber Squads - BM, Two Wizzies, Archer, Barb, and Veno in two intances. I was separated from my party, but there were some decent players in the instances. Both were 20 v 6, and both cases we had at least 6 well geared people on our side.

It became a game of Ironguard dig the flag.

-If I got to it, I made it max half way to the water as they blew away what support I had (that weren't off getting tacos), purged me, stunned me, and then undined and double wizard DPH'ed me.

(I made six carries)

-If one of the wizards got to it, they made it in 4/5 carries without sweating.

(all 4 successful carries were by their wizards. One time they were put down, however that was a fluke because they admitted they didn't know some real DDs showed up)

-If their barb got it, he died before he got out of the hole.

So, wizards are tanks and DDs now. I imagine "Whichever Purify Proc Caster IG digs the flag first wins" was not the intent of NW, but there it is.

Joshcja - Sanctuary

Maelael - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Funny you mention this. Because after last Sunday's NW, and the large proliferation of Purify Spell casters, this may be a more viable build.

I ran across one of my faction's uber Squads - BM, Two Wizzies, Archer, Barb, and Veno in two intances. I was separated from my party, but there were some decent players in the instance.

It became a game of Ironguard dig the flag.

-If I got to it, I made it max half way to the water as they blew away what support I had (that weren't off getting tacos), purged me, stunned me, and then undined and double wizard DPH'ed me.

(I made six carries)

-If one of the wizards got to it, they made it in 4/5 carries without sweating.

(all 4 successful carries were by their wizards. One time they were put down, however that was a fluke because they admitted they didn't know some real DDs showed up)

-If their barb got it, he died before he got out of the hole.

So, wizards are tanks and DDs now. I imagine "Whichever Purify Proc Caster IG digs the flag first wins" was not the intent of NW, but there it is.

It comes down to 25-30% less damage cross the board or 50% less from mag

Sleep the purify user then have another OP r999 DPS 3 spark and nuke em