Cleric UV form idea

Arawin - Raging Tide

UltraViolet Dance (UV form) is a skill that takes away a cleric's MAIN ability. That is, a cleric using UV form is unable to heal others. In exchange for this, the cleric gains access to a few new abilities while in form. However, it still feels rather... un-clericy to entirely lose access to healing other people.

Basically my understanding is, while in UV form, a cleric is a DD. However, even in UV form, with access to new skills, clerics are pretty underpowered compared to other classes. (Weak ability scaling is the main problem.)

Since a cleric is giving up their main abilities, I feel the form should offer more to clerics.

My proposal is to have UV form increase critical rate based on magic. (Say Every 50 magic gives 1% more chance to critical strike. So a cleric with 500 magic would gain 10% critical strike chance. This number could be balanced obviously.) Clerics would still not be able to achieve quite as large hits as other classes, but with increased crit chance, they would be more bursty, and provide more benefit to using UV form.


The other idea to make the form more appealing would be to allow clerics to still heal others in UV form. Maybe disallow powerful healing skills like BB (regeneration aura) and group heals, but still let clerics keep their main ability, healing, while in UV form.

I *do* like the idea of a form with new abilities... but currently UV form feels limiting.


Just my thoughts.

Clergywoman - Raging Tide

to increase the critical hit rate based on magic, while in ultraviolet mode is fantastic idea! i fully support this suggestion. after all it is supposed to be dd mode!


i cannot agree with idea to weaken the penalty while in ultraviolet mode, tho. imo this penalty is pretty balanced; either heal squad or dd. the only criticism i have about the uv-penalty is that aoe-buffs are disabled.

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands

It will change absolutely not what people think about that. Cleric is not a DD, no one will take a cleric as DD even with 50% chance of critical.

I think the VD/UVD is a mage form for cleric and to make them able to heal and everything would have make them overpower compare to other casters, but since we don't have heal they should have make us have p.def 25% higher in that form since we cannot heal.

Wizz have one heal and the best p.def of all caster, cleric in mage form should have a boost of p.def at least since we cannot heal at all.

Clergywoman - Raging Tide

you can very well heal yourself in uv mode. absorbing array, aurora array, elven boon. all those heal you. as sage you can heal yourself and even others with sage celestial guardians seal. it is a very weak heal, but it stacks and works on others, even in uv mode.

the crit-bonus in uv-mode is more appealing and more consistent with the metal-mage theme of uv-mode. unlike the suddenly higher pdef in dd mode. sure wizards have stone-barrier but we have plume shell and both 79-skills.

DirtySouth - Raging Tide

lmao! underpowered class? i mean u can keep a target perma immobilzed forever, crit buff arrays, sleep, SoG, 2 shells, perma buffs. Wanna compare ur buffs with + evasion?

Zanryu - Dreamweaver

Oh good lord, Clerics askin' for even more. Sweet Jebus. I'll take infinite heals over a minute long soulburn, a skill that won't wake you from sleep and deals good damage, increases crit rate, and the ability to shut down your heals any day. Stupid Clerics

Clergywoman - Raging Tide

when arawin said underpowered, i think he ment the raw dd-power of a cleric compared to other arcanes, like psychic or wizard. after all, uv-mode is supposed to be dd-mode.

but i agree with your assessment that in 1v1 situations an endgame cleric is maybe only second to an endgame dph sin or a mystic. but i don't think that an archer can complain *cough* fml purge, again *cough* in that department. and that is not the topic here. :P

Arawin - Raging Tide

Clergywoman - Raging Tide wrote: »

when arawin said underpowered, i think he ment the raw dd-power of a cleric compared to other arcanes, like psychic or wizard. after all, uv-mode is supposed to be dd-mode.

Pretty much.

As it currently is, UV form turns a cleric into a full DD. (Cannot heal/support others). If we're gonna be a DD, and not a support, we should at least be close to other DDs in terms of raw DD power. Obviously not the same, but in our own unique way. (Thus the crit idea.)

Please stay on topic. If you want to discuss archer inefficiencies, please do so in another thread.

Zanryu - Dreamweaver

Arawin - Raging Tide wrote: »

Pretty much.

As it currently is, UV form turns a cleric into a full DD. (Cannot heal/support others). If we're gonna be a DD, and not a support, we should at least be close to other DDs in terms of raw DD power. Obviously not the same, but in our own unique way. (Thus the crit idea.)

Please stay on topic. If you want to discuss archer inefficiencies, please do so in another thread.

There's not much need to have the same or close to the same raw DD when you can kill nearly as effectively if not more so than regular magic DDs.

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands

Arawin - Raging Tide wrote: »

Pretty much.

As it currently is, UV form turns a cleric into a full DD. (Cannot heal/support others). If we're gonna be a DD, and not a support, we should at least be close to other DDs in terms of raw DD power. Obviously not the same, but in our own unique way. (Thus the crit idea.)

Please stay on topic. If you want to discuss archer inefficiencies, please do so in another thread.

A pure magic demon cleric hurt a lot ijs.

In PVE wizz and psy already have enough trouble to get in squad for bh and other instances that if you make cleric out DD them there will be no more people rolling other caster.

In PVE clerics are take as healers and I think it's fine like that.

I think VD/UVD should be use in the PVP aspect in the game, Cleric have a magic debuff of 35%, demon spirit gift 150% bonus magic attack and UVD up to 100% and it's not enough?

A lot of people say that end game clerics are one of the most scariest class in the game.

Give more for the offensive will make end game cleric over power vs other class, while on normal gear people it will not be as important, while something like a 25% p.def more will help a lot normal people with normal gears without make end game clerics too much over power.

Clergywoman - Raging Tide

Zanryu - Dreamweaver wrote: »

There's not much need to have the same or close to the same raw DD when you can kill nearly as effectively if not more so than regular magic DDs.

the point is not that a cleric can orchestrate locks and debuffs into a melody of certain death in a 1v1. the point is, that in mass-pk, tw, or nw, this advantage is lost. and a cleric that has chosen to play as metal-mage instaed of a support class, deals much less damage than a wiz for example. it would be nice if a cleric inv uv-mode would do damage (not higher, hell not even close to but at least) in the same league as other nukers.


btw unlike the proponent of this idea, i am a full support cleric in pvp. so it wouldn't benefit me as much. but i love how this mag for crit idea perfectly fits into the uv-mode theme. b:chuckle

DirtySouth - Raging Tide

Arawin - Raging Tide wrote: »

Pretty much.

As it currently is, UV form turns a cleric into a full DD. (Cannot heal/support others). If we're gonna be a DD, and not a support, we should at least be close to other DDs in terms of raw DD power. Obviously not the same, but in our own unique way. (Thus the crit idea.)

Please stay on topic. If you want to discuss archer inefficiencies, please do so in another thread.

wait, cuz 10k crit from arrays BS on a 94 def lvls archer isnt a good damage imput? reroll a wizzard then.

Also the QQing about purge is kinda old, are u ptting on the same lvl Purify proc vs purge?

Zanryu - Dreamweaver

Clergywoman - Raging Tide wrote: »

the point is not that a cleric can orchestrate locks and debuffs into a melody of certain death in a 1v1. the point is, that in mass-pk, tw, or nw, this advantage is lost. and a cleric that has chosen to play as metal-mage instaed of a support class, deals much less damage than a wiz for example. it would be nice if a cleric inv uv-mode would do damage (not higher, hell not even close to but at least) in the same league as other nukers.


btw unlike the proponent of this idea, i am a full support cleric in pvp. so it wouldn't benefit me as much. but i love how this mag for crit idea perfectly fits into the uv-mode theme. b:chuckle

You can't stick with one style all the time, that's just not how things work. If you want a free damage buff then quit because you're obviously not mentally sane. You've got enough damage for 1v1 and you pack a decent hit with AoEs. You're a support class at the basest of levels, and you already gain a large amount of attack power from UV, enough that it's roughly the same as a Wizard or Psychic.

A BM can't sit there and aps while in mass PvP, well.. they could, but they'd get utterly destroyed. In order to be as effective as possible they use axes. It's less damage than their fists but it works on more targets. Hey I know. how about giving us BMs 2x damage while wearing fists, also 1.5x more defense and 10% more HP! Also make our aoe stun 8 seconds instead of 6 and give us a new reliable stun that lasts 6 seconds. Also, since our damage is so poor make our auto attacks aoe.

What I'm asking unbalanced, yet comparable to what you request. You should re-think giving Clerics even more power. Nobody can do everything, Clerics are amazing at 1v1 thanks to their Morai skills and have more than acceptable damage output and support skills in group PvP. They're a support class and should be assuming that role when it comes to that situation, and even if an opportunity opens up they're already packing enough of a magic attack boost to get some good hits in anyway. Back when I pk'd on my Cleric I played support before damage in group, second I could attack I did, but I made dame sure my teammates were healed and buffed before I went trying to metal mage.

Clergywoman - Raging Tide

hard to respond to such a nonsensical and self-contradictory post that disagrees with points that no one made and suggests supposedly unbalanced ideas which have been partly implemented already. but i will give it a try: aps bm in pvp. heh, that is a good one!

an endgame cleric has about 10% crit and with r9w and the +100magic set bonus about 650 magic. that would give a cleric in uv-mode (if we assume 50mag = 1% crit) 23% crit-rate. compared to a wizard, a cleric would still "only" do 10k crit dmg, but now just a bit more often. a wizard with its 30k+ crits would still out-nuke a cleric by far. seems like a fairly reasonable bonus for a damage-mode to me.

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands

I don't understand people that absolutely want to change their class to be like the others class, if you wanted to play a wizz why you rolled a cleric? Same with veno that want their pets to have the gears stats like mystics with summon.

If a defense skill/stat was suggested I could understand cause plume shell is a pain cause need to be charm to use it.

There's enough nab clerics that don't know anymore how to heal and keep a squad alive without give them more reasons to act as metal mages.

I feel like I need to say it everyday, but here we go again: End game clerics are one of the most powerful class, asking for more is showing you don't know the potential of your class.

As I said a crit bonus would not be useful for a low/medium geared cleric, it will just over power even more end game clerics.

http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1556251

A RT cleric made a challenge, 50 1v1, if someone was beating him he would give the winner 100m, NO ONE BEAT HIM on 50. (Kinda prove that end game clerics are powerful)

Unholly - Lothranis

i thought "mark of weakness" was a skill that increased your chance of a crit o.o not only would it increases your chance but everyone else's chance of a crit on that person too... your telling me that isnt potent in mass pvp?

Even before morai came out i have seen end game clerics decimate every other class in the game. So its not like you didn't have enough damage before UV-mode.

if you want to hit like a psychic or wizard then go make one and play that. Clerics were not made to be a rawr dd class.

A skilled cleric in mass/single pk "rocks". If you feel the class needs more.... b:surrender your doing something wrong.

Fryvorg - Sanctuary

Unholly - Lothranis wrote: »

i thought "mark of weakness" was a skill that increased your chance of a crit o.o

That was my first thought on that topic, too. Isn't 15% extra crit enough? And it's not like it is only a debuff. With the new skill rebalance it has become an attack with damage based on your soulforce, that goes through sleep and seal of the gods (without waking up/reducing damage). That is absolutely awesome. Also, you still have some heals in VD. First of, Sage Celestial Guardian Seal (if you are sage, of course), elven boon, the healing debuffs and UVD all have a slight healing side effect. All skills are kinda weak in comparison to your normal healing skills, and you can only apply them to yourself, but they are a really nice add to the actual effects of the skills.

So, I don't think Clerics really need what you've suggested...

Xainou - Sanctuary

Let's see. My cleric got about 14% crit now. That with MoW and your idea would pretty much put me on par with sins and archers.

...

No, just no.

Elvenne - Raging Tide

Arawin my dear dear friend. You having the gear that you have and still thinking clerics are underpowered....



Uninstall this game!!!

With the gear that you have you can beat ANYONE in our server one vs one if you were not such a twitb:angry

Cleric is one of the most OP class if you want it to be like something else than play something else!!!

Zanryu - Dreamweaver

So when are BMs gonna get overpowered?

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands

Zanryu - Dreamweaver wrote: »

So when are BMs gonna get overpowered?

There's the venomancers turn after clerics. Cause you know venomancers are underpower..

Zanryu - Lothranis

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands wrote: »

There's the venomancers turn after clerics. Cause you know venomancers are underpower..

No! They have bramble and all sorts of forms and ****, the **** alone already make them OP. I want a turn. I'll take, uh... a 10 second stun dealing 500% weapon damage and costing 1 and a half sparks, roar increased to 8 seconds, uhhh.... some large fries, a coke, and Blade Tornado's damage increased by 50% with an increase in range so it hits everything in a 30 meter radius. Now we're talkin'.

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands

Zanryu - Lothranis wrote: »

No! They have bramble and all sorts of forms and ****, the **** alone already make them OP. I want a turn. I'll take, uh... a 10 second stun dealing 500% weapon damage and costing 1 and a half sparks, roar increased to 8 seconds, uhhh.... some large fries, a coke, and Blade Tornado's damage increased by 50% with an increase in range so it hits everything in a 30 meter radius. Now we're talkin'.

I was sarcastic. XD

Zanryu - Lothranis

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands wrote: »

I was sarcastic. XD

I'm aware. I was not, I want to be overpowered. I want a taste of the life.

Zsw - Dreamweaver

Wait, so. You want clerics to be able to be on par with a DD like wizard/psy, and still be able to heal at the same time? Then why would anyone still play other classes? lol. =/

Zanryu - Dreamweaver

Zsw - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Wait, so. You want clerics to be able to be on par with a DD like wizard/psy, and still be able to heal at the same time? Then why would anyone still play other classes? lol. =/

Once you get a taste of power you just want more. More, more, more MORE MORE MORE!

MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOORRRRRRRREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE


More.

Adroit - Lost City

I want gm cape

Arawin - Raging Tide

Zsw - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Wait, so. You want clerics to be able to be on par with a DD like wizard/psy, and still be able to heal at the same time? Then why would anyone still play other classes? lol. =/

Did you fully read my post? Or truly understand the UV form ability? It *takes away* the ability to cast healing spells. Thus you cannot heal at the same time. The choice is either to heal, or to DD. Not both.

And I don't think 10% crit is would put clerics on par with Wiz or Psy. It might closen the gap somewhat, but the other classes are true, full DD classes, and have far stronger scaling abilities that won't be caught up to with a little bit of critical strike.

Zsw - Dreamweaver

Arawin - Raging Tide wrote: »

Did you fully read my post? Or truly understand the UV form ability? It *takes away* the ability to cast healing spells. Thus you cannot heal at the same time. The choice is either to heal, or to DD. Not both.

And I don't think 10% crit is would put clerics on par with Wiz or Psy. It might closen the gap somewhat, but the other classes are true, full DD classes, and have far stronger scaling abilities that won't be caught up to with a little bit of critical strike.

I did read your post. I quote:

Arawin - Raging Tide wrote: »

The other idea to make the form more appealing would be to allow clerics to still heal others in UV form. Maybe disallow powerful healing skills like BB (regeneration aura) and group heals, but still let clerics keep their main ability, healing, while in UV form.

If that is allowed, then clerics would essentially be DDs that heal.

Clerics are not supposed to be main DDs anyway.

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands

Arawin - Raging Tide wrote: »

Did you fully read my post? Or truly understand the UV form ability? It *takes away* the ability to cast healing spells. Thus you cannot heal at the same time. The choice is either to heal, or to DD. Not both.

And I don't think 10% crit is would put clerics on par with Wiz or Psy. It might closen the gap somewhat, but the other classes are true, full DD classes, and have far stronger scaling abilities that won't be caught up to with a little bit of critical strike.

Magic attack never miss it's why they have lower crit than other class.

Cleric are not psy/wizz, they have now a DD form be happy of it beside ask for more.

According to PWI community mystics are in last place for caster ability in PVP and yet it's always other casters class complaining and asking for more.

The only thing that need a fix on cleric is plume shell that's all.

Arawin - Raging Tide

I'd be curious what needs "fixing" about plume shell. (Aside from the fact that physical classes can purge it. The same physical classes it's designed to protect against...)

Maybe I worded the idea wrong. I don't particularly desire clerics to be BUFFED... I'd just like the UV form to be made more... "appealing" somehow.

I love gaining access to 6 new skills. And those new skills are fun and interesting. But I don't like giving up access to 10 (or so) of my other skills in order to gain access to these new skills. (It's not like wizards have to switch to "heal mode" in order to cast their heal...)

If UV form had more "perks," I feel this exchange would be more meaningful. And I thought that a little critical hit buff would fall in line with the original intention of the skill.

And maybe I misunderstand, but I don't feel 10% critical strike is going to make clerics better DDs than Psychics or Wizards. Not by a long shot.