Heavy armor cleric

Akan - Momaganon

Working on making a heavy armor cleric.

My FC leveling build:
http://pwcalc.com/e31022e2533afb32

My end-game build, using my "old" g16 armor and r9.3 weapon, might consider using r8recast weapon too, not sure yet:
http://pwcalc.com/ad1d58bad88cac02

How do you think this would work as a mostly support cleric with healing, sleep, buffs etc.

Aeliah - Dreamweaver

We have SMASHnHEAL on Dreamweaver with pretty much the build you are describing. Does it work? Yes, it works. How does it compare to my own, full r9rr mostly pure arcane build? Better survivability against archers quickshot, worse survivability against arcanes. In pk, you'll be nigh impossible for melees to kill, but arcanes will be able to dominate you. In TW it appears to work quite well too; in fact I often take it upon myself to throw a seal of gods onto SMASH to hold him down long enough for him to get purged, and I toss a healing debuff and mark of weakness. This usually leads to, well, not only his death, but the death of almost anybody caught with it, if our side is pushing forward and the person caught in Seal of Gods is left in the thick of enemies for 15 seconds unable to do a single thing! But I've deviated from the topic by now.

Its a build with pros and cons, just like every build out there. All depends on your playstyle hehe. But definitely a viable build for a cleric.

Cheers,

Aeliah

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands

Look nice, the only thing is I think you could use a better ring than Seal of eternal solitude.

soundslegit

Akan - Momaganon wrote: »

Working on making a heavy armor cleric.

My FC leveling build:
http://pwcalc.com/e31022e2533afb32

My end-game build, using my "old" g16 armor and r9.3 weapon, might consider using r8recast weapon too, not sure yet:
http://pwcalc.com/ad1d58bad88cac02

How do you think this would work as a mostly support cleric with healing, sleep, buffs etc.

I thought only PK obsessed clerics do this build.

MageFizban - Lost City

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands wrote: »

Look nice, the only thing is I think you could use a better ring than Seal of eternal solitude.

They probably used it on seeker for the patk bonus + mdef refines.

SMASHnHEAL - Dreamweaver

Akan - Momaganon wrote: »

Working on making a heavy armor cleric.

My FC leveling build:
http://pwcalc.com/e31022e2533afb32

My end-game build, using my "old" g16 armor and r9.3 weapon, might consider using r8recast weapon too, not sure yet:
http://pwcalc.com/ad1d58bad88cac02

How do you think this would work as a mostly support cleric with healing, sleep, buffs etc.

This is almost the exact same build as my current one although I have a few small differences. I use the rank 9 recast belt and I currently am using a sign of frost chaos ring until I can recast my cloud stir and refine it. Additional things I will be looking to do is to recast the r9 ring, recast G16 neck and also the tome - slowly but surely.

In terms about your question - healing was never an issue with a well refined weapon and of course sleep and buffs are not effected by the build at all. In PVE you will almost never die and will be able to solo most bosses.

Pre Nation Wars this build would have been close to being the best pk build for a cleric in my opinion just with the amount of sins/bms apsing around. Now as Aeliah has mentioned there is a heavy focus on r9rr casters which provide a lot of problems with my low mdef. If you have the G16 gear already give it a go but I would suggest r9rr cleric for those looking for a current end game cleric (if done right)

soundslegit wrote: »

I thought only PK obsessed clerics do this build.

Yes and no. I was HA from level 1 because back in the day people said it couldn't be done, was a very fun build to make from scratch. I never had any issue with PVE content, quite the opposite actually as I could survive better than higher level cleric on bosses such as Belial. Now I am sort after in most PVE content but does require a different play style as your normal cleric. I am always in pk mode as it is what I enjoy most so in a sense your comment is correct.

Veneir - Dreamweaver

SMASHnHEAL - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Yes and no. I was HA from level 1 because back in the day people said it couldn't be done, was a very fun build to make from scratch.

Same ! HA from level one and wouldn't trade the experience of it for anything in-game at all.

If the build's simmilar to Smashie's then I'm sure it's great x3

thumbs

It would be irresponsible to join squads to fill role as healer with this build.

SMASHnHEAL - Dreamweaver

thumbs wrote: »

It would be irresponsible to join squads to fill role as healer with this build.

Just as it would be irresponsible to listen to anything thumbs has to say

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands

thumbs wrote: »

It would be irresponsible to join squads to fill role as healer with this build.

Cannot be worse than vit clerics and they can be great healer if they know their job. Majority of pure magic AA clerics are nab metal mages refusing to heal.

Walpurga - Dreamweaver

If you don't know that a cleric is HA in NW you can spend a lot of time and arrows while thinking that they must be R9rrr+12 full jades b:surrender

soundslegit

Walpurga - Dreamweaver wrote: »

If you don't know that a cleric is HA in NW you can spend a lot of time and arrows while thinking that they must be R9rrr+12 full jades b:surrender

This happens to me on seeker with venos. By the time I realize they must be HA the fight is already over.

Decus - Dreamweaver

Walpurga - Dreamweaver wrote: »

If you don't know that a cleric is HA in NW you can spend a lot of time and arrows while thinking that they must be R9rrr+12 full jades b:surrender

Eh, 15k pdef is less than many wizards I've fought, so arrows would be just as effective.

SMASHnHEAL - Dreamweaver

15k pdef is a bit on the low side and top end arcane classes can achieve this while still wearing AA. I'm at 20k pdef self buffed and I must say I do laugh everytime a cleric hits me with plume shot in NW/TW.

thumbs

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands wrote: »

Cannot be worse than vit clerics and they can be great healer if they know their job. Majority of pure magic AA clerics are nab metal mages refusing to heal.

Well geared pure mag clerics shouldn't have to heal poorly geared toons that want to aggro everything in site. I've never had a problem with a cleric not healing; only with ones that over heal and spam chromatic (nothing to do with being hyper nubs either - clerics I've known of for over 4 years still spam chromatic as if it's all they know). As cleric; I've seen many toons that have 1/10 or less the tanking and dd ability just randomly aggro mobs we don't need. I stop healing them to dd and they get the hint. I have yet to notice a vit or ha cleric having 1337 skills, rather they're the ones that spam chroma, heal during lures, and heal sins.

Yes pure vit cleric heals suck also, and skills or knowing their job has little to do with it. What more can you do when you're in Regeneration Aura in RB, or on the BH metal bosses? Do vit/ha clerics really expect your very well equipped tanks to have to use hp pots? Heals most often aren't even be needed until you get to a major boss, and when you do: heal strength can be important.

I'm using G16+12 wand on pure mags and would still like to have stronger heals. I don't understand why anyone wouldn't.

SMASHnHEAL - Dreamweaver wrote: »

15k pdef is a bit on the low side and top end arcane classes can achieve this while still wearing AA. I'm at 20k pdef self buffed and I must say I do laugh everytime a cleric hits me with plume shot in NW/TW.

I think it's funnier when a vit or ha cleric hits me but I don't laugh.

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands

thumbs wrote: »

Well geared pure mag clerics shouldn't have to heal poorly geared toons that want to aggro everything in site. I've never had a problem with a cleric not healing; only with ones that over heal and spam chromatic (nothing to do with being hyper nubs either - clerics I've known of for over 4 years still spam chromatic as if it's all they know). As cleric; I've seen many toons that have 1/10 or less the tanking and dd ability just randomly aggro mobs we don't need. I stop healing them to dd and they get the hint. I have yet to notice a vit or ha cleric having 1337 skills, rather they're the ones that spam chroma, heal during lures, and heal sins.

Yes pure vit cleric heals suck also, and skills or knowing their job has little to do with it. What more can you do when you're in Regeneration Aura in RB, or on the BH metal bosses? Do vit/ha clerics really expect your very well equipped tanks to have to use hp pots? Heals most often aren't even be needed until you get to a major boss, and when you do: heal strength can be important.

I'm using G16+12 wand on pure mags and would still like to have stronger heals. I don't understand why anyone wouldn't.



I think it's funnier when a vit or ha cleric hits me but I don't laugh.

People can run majority of instances without cleric, you said it yourself, so if run a instance without cleric is fine then the same instance with a HA/LA/VIT build cleric won't make more people die or tick charms ijs.

I wasn't a fan of HA build myself, but at that point of the game people can do everything without cleric who care if there's a HA/LA/VIT cleric in the squad? If people can do it without clerics they won't die with a cleric with a different build.

If I had the money I would personally like to try that build, cause in PVP/NW/TW it must be really hard to take down those clerics.

But I would use a different ring than the OP.

thumbs

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands wrote: »

People can run majority of instances without cleric, you said it yourself, so if run a instance without cleric is fine then the same instance with a HA/LA/VIT build cleric won't make more people die or tick charms ijs.

Didn't the argument start with their ability to heal as well? Didn't I point out that when it came to needing healing that their heals would be insufficient? Didn't I specify metal bosses and mobs in RB?

I wasn't a fan of HA build myself, but at that point of the game people can do everything without cleric who care if there's a HA/LA/VIT cleric in the squad? If people can do it without clerics they won't die with a cleric with a different build.

Most 100+ assassins can't tank BH metal; both of mine can but have yet to not need pots with a fail build cleric. Most 100+ wizards can't tank delta; mine only needs pots when cleric is fail build (regardless of BM buff). My barb needs hp pots when tanking vile metal boss with fail build cleric. When I've tanked BH SoT or Aba on one of my mages(over 13k hp): I can't imagine what would happen if I didn't erupt on time if I had a fail build cleric healing. A lot can be done w/o cleric, and when they're not needed to heal: they could at least be good dd. When they are needed to heal: we shouldn't need to pot.

If I had the money I would personally like to try that build, cause in PVP/NW/TW it must be really hard to take down those clerics

Taking down those clerics is less a priority and Soul Absorb, + pure aa's shouldn't have a problem. What's that poor dd cleric gonna do, tickle them with plume feathers?

Aeliah - Dreamweaver

thumbs thumbs thumbs

Trolling up our forums again, are you. Using examples that no relevancy, with a tendency to ramble from the point, and never, *ever* wrong, of course.

Facts concerning clerics and heavy armor build.

1) 'strong enough' heals in PvE are 'strong enough'. My stream of rejuvenation heals for 18k hp. Tell me, what sin needs a heal that strong? Lol! More to the point, what sin worth his (or her) salt needs heals, at all? All of them on occasion, but not really all that often; usually more effective than a heal, is a dmg reducing skill of some sort, such as sage vanguard spirit, wings of protection, or the 50% dmg reduction from BB. Heavy armor clerics can do all of these things with equal effectiveness.

For the purposes of healing many people in pve situations, the basic power of the heals is good enough. Against modern gear, mobs and bosses don't do all that much damage. Consider that every heal skill does a % of your base magic attack, plus some set heal amount. Even with no magic attack at all, your heals still heal for an ok amount. This is why the heals from a heavy armor cleric build aren't as low as you think they might be. Put another way, just because their magic attack is lower by a certain amount, doesn't mean their heals are also weaker by that amount; they aren't.

On my arcane cleric, my heals are so much stronger than they need to be, its almost boring. I can put 2 ironhearts onto somebody tanking some mobs, twiddle my thumbs for a while, then put another ironheart on. A heavy armor cleric, however, may choose to spam their heals more often, resulting in an equally effective heals.

The only place my superior heal strength really comes into play is in pk and tw, where enemy players do much more damage and faster damage than any boss can manage, and thus I need extra healing power to heal those taking the enemy dmg.

2) Heavy armor build is very good at tanking physical damage. No brainer. Base physical defense of SMASH's build, even with all those elemental ornaments, is significantly higher than I'll ever achieve on my cleric, even with three +12 physical defense ornaments. His unbuffed hp higher than mine even without +12 refines, because heavy armor refines for so much extra hp.

Recall where I mentioned that my superior healing strength comes into play the most during pk and tw. To offset that, a heavy armor cleric has a great survivability against many of the enemies clerics commonly face in pk and tw: archers, sins, bms. A cleric that says alive is a cleric that can continue to heal. A dead cleric won't be keeping anybody alive!

3) Recovering hp in ultraviolet/violet dance mode: the amount of hp you recover using the skills Absorbing Array and Aurora Array is determined by your SOULFORCE, not your base magic attack. That means even if a bm uses that skill to disable my weapon attack for 6 seconds, I can use my array debuffs to recover hp equal to 8% and 15% of my soulforce, respectively. For me that works out to 3.5k and 7k hp, roughly. Thus a heavy armor cleric can heal for just as much hp as I can, despite having less magic attack.

4) Thunderball: the damage over time portion of this skill (skill does base dmg, + (400% wep dmg +6800) over 12 seconds) is based on weapon attack, not base magic attack. That means, this particular attack won't have much difference in the total amount of damage it does over 12 seconds, regardless of whether you are heavy armor build or arcane build.

5) all attacks in general: do basic magic attack +XXX % of weapon attack +set dmg. Thus, again, a reminder that base magic attack isn't the only thing determining power of attacks, and thus, a heavy armor cleric's damage isn't quite as low as you'd expect, if base magic attack was the only determining factor.

To conclude. The heavy armor build has a number of features which make it viable, and, as I've said before, like other viable cleric builds, it has its pros and cons. Simply because you've met one cleric who was vit or heavy armor build, who didn't heal you enough, does not mean that the build is *fail*. I like how you conveniently forget the arcane clerics you've undoubtedly met who died from having too low hp, or who didn't heal anyways even though their heals were stronger, or who were nubbish in some other way. Can only remember them vit clerics, eh? Rubbish. You remember them because you want your experience to fit a pre-conceived notion, not because you are looking through your experiences trying to gather facts. The fact is, a heavy armor cleric can heal just fine if they want to; in fact I'll bet you've squadded many times with clerics who have some vit statted, and you DIDN'T EVEN KNOW IT. What does that say about your idea of vit and heavy armor clerics, hmmm?

I'm sure my words are wasted on a troll like you, but for the rest of you more sound-minded folk out there, you can see that the heavy armor build does have its merits. If you are interested in trying this build, do not take this troll's words into account. He has never levelled a heavy armor cleric, nor has he indicated if he even has a cleric of his own.

I have, in my time, levelled a cleric to 101, demon cultivation, and put heavy armor on it. Then, because I like clerics so much, I levelled a 2nd one to 105, and it is sage. AKA, Aeliah. While playing my demon heavy armor cleric, nobody ever complained to me that I wasn't healing enough. Like any smart player out there, heavy or arcane build, I was aware of my limits, aware of how much I need to heal to keep the squad safe. The build is, in the words of mine and other CLERICS, a viable one.

Cheers,

Aeliah

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands

Wow! o.o

If it's a waste of words on thumbs, I personally really enjoyed read your arguments.
I usually don't read long wall of text, but your was interesting. (Great punctuation and paragraph)

Desdi - Sanctuary

Aeliah - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Like any smart player out there, heavy or arcane build, I was aware of my limits, aware of how much I need to heal to keep the squad safe.

This right here is very true.

Also, your post was very interesting to read indeed and you had a few good points in it too.

Akan - Momaganon

Thanks for the replies. Sounds like it is a viable build to use for TW and NW. Wanted to make a char that could re-use the gear I no longer use on my seeker.


For most if not all pve content I think even the FC build I posted could be used, not like any pve ecounters are hard anymore. I would in any case not use it for that, since my seeker can solo almost all bosses.

Aeliah - Dreamweaver

Akan - Momaganon wrote: »

Thanks for the replies. Sounds like it is a viable build to use for TW and NW. Wanted to make a char that could re-use the gear I no longer use on my seeker.


For most if not all pve content I think even the FC build I posted could be used, not like any pve ecounters are hard anymore. I would in any case not use it for that, since my seeker can solo almost all bosses.

In my experience, best contribution a cleric (a slow moving class) can get in nation wars is to tank damage, lots and lots of it, as much as you can handle without dying. For that purpose, assuming you can get good elemental ornaments, heavy armor build should be just the thing. Spam lots of ihs, watch melees fall to bramble, and sleep any arcane who is hitting too hard lol.