When to use Fists for PvE?

mrcharlyplustwo
mrcharlyplustwo Posts: 0 Arc User
edited February 2013 in Blademaster
What is the lowest level fist/claw worth using for PvE?

In other words, when and with what does the dps overtake axes?
Post edited by mrcharlyplustwo on

Comments

  • Sylvae - Sanctuary
    Sylvae - Sanctuary Posts: 1,018 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    Early on it depends on adds. It likely has also changed with the free junk they toss around freely at low levels. But if you get/craft some fist weapons with multiple +phys attacks, they can be viable almost right away. There wasn't much AoE opportunity for axes to shine early on, so they don't get to shine til later.

    29 is the big level for fists, though. That's when you get Diamond Sutra and Spark. Fists generate chi best, letting you use spark and Sutra for more damage and healing ability. That continues to be the theme for quite a while, until you hit areas with a good amount of mobs you can AoE with axes.

    At 60 you will have access to double spark, AoS, and Bracers of Blood Moon. Here axe will not overtake fists in solo damage, and the disparity increases from there. So it'll be your starting point for weapon swapping as needed for the job required.
  • Sakubatou - Sanctuary
    Sakubatou - Sanctuary Posts: 4,001 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    Sylvae - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Early on it depends on adds. It likely has also changed with the free junk they toss around freely at low levels. But if you get/craft some fist weapons with multiple +phys attacks, they can be viable almost right away. There wasn't much AoE opportunity for axes to shine early on, so they don't get to shine til later.

    29 is the big level for fists, though. That's when you get Diamond Sutra and Spark. Fists generate chi best, letting you use spark and Sutra for more damage and healing ability. That continues to be the theme for quite a while, until you hit areas with a good amount of mobs you can AoE with axes.

    At 60 you will have access to double spark, AoS, and Bracers of Blood Moon. Here axe will not overtake fists in solo damage, and the disparity increases from there. So it'll be your starting point for weapon swapping as needed for the job required.

    This is right on.

    Fists always have their uses for chi gain but they don't really out dps axes until you start stacking -int gear, and not alot of low level -int gear is available.

    Ofc there's L:UaD from level 1, and the rare level 34 -int fists but your first reliable -int is on Bracers of Blood Moon at level 60. These cost roughly 30m to make as they require 20 silver dragon orders and 20 x copper, but are easy to resell afterwards too. After that your next reliable -int isn't really till tt80 and tt90 gold wrists, and then tt99 gear. Add into that the 3 star and craftable fists you might find with -int from level 30 and up. Still, the bulk of -int gear isn't until 99 plus and until there are multiple pieces the benefits of aps aren't really seen.
    Seven 100+ characters leveled the hard way. Free to play. Mystic, Psychic, and Wizard left to level. b:victory
  • mrcharlyplustwo
    mrcharlyplustwo Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    My bm is till a nub (62 now). I'm using just ordinary fists from blacksmith and the dreamchaser dual axes.

    On BH bosses this seems to work. Attack with axes and cast HF. Switch to fists. By the time HF has cooled down, I have two sparks again. HF again, back to fists. Rinse and repeat. Doing this means I pretty much always have a spark available for sutra if needed.

    The fists have half the attack of the axes and speed of 1.43 vs 0.83. So axes should kill faster but I'm not seeing much difference in kill times, fists possibly a bit faster if I spark.
  • Sylvae - Sanctuary
    Sylvae - Sanctuary Posts: 1,018 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    mrcharlyplustwo wrote: »
    My bm is till a nub (62 now). I'm using just ordinary fists from blacksmith and the dreamchaser dual axes.

    On BH bosses this seems to work. Attack with axes and cast HF. Switch to fists. By the time HF has cooled down, I have two sparks again. HF again, back to fists. Rinse and repeat. Doing this means I pretty much always have a spark available for sutra if needed.

    The fists have half the attack of the axes and speed of 1.43 vs 0.83. So axes should kill faster but I'm not seeing much difference in kill times, fists possibly a bit faster if I spark.

    1.43 is the APS of fists, .83 is of axes. What you're missing is, APS means attacks per second. Axes attack much slower, which the slower animation should have made clear. Though with axes it is usually skill spam over normal attack. At 62 you should be able to get a cheap set of Annihilator of Souls, which is one of the best fists you can be using at that level. Just check AH for one to get if it is cheap.
  • Sakubatou - Sanctuary
    Sakubatou - Sanctuary Posts: 4,001 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    mrcharlyplustwo wrote: »
    My bm is till a nub (62 now). I'm using just ordinary fists from blacksmith and the dreamchaser dual axes.

    On BH bosses this seems to work. Attack with axes and cast HF. Switch to fists. By the time HF has cooled down, I have two sparks again. HF again, back to fists. Rinse and repeat. Doing this means I pretty much always have a spark available for sutra if needed.

    The fists have half the attack of the axes and speed of 1.43 vs 0.83. So axes should kill faster but I'm not seeing much difference in kill times, fists possibly a bit faster if I spark.

    Before -int gear fists and axes have almost the same dps. Fists attack 72% faster, but axes do 72% more damage, so their dps (damage per second) starts out equal. Until you add -int gear.

    -int gear gain is exponential, meaning the faster fists get more than the slower axes. Lets say you have -.2 int total. The 1.43 aps (attacks per second) go up to 2 aps, a 40% gain, but the axes go from .83 to 1 aps, only a 20% gain. You're only 2 aps and already fists are doing a substantial amount of damage more than axes and gaining chi alot faster so you can be sparked more often.

    Add another -.2 int and you are 3.33 aps with fist and only 1.25 aps with axes, which is another 66.5% damage increase for fists but only a 25% increase for axes, and fists will be sparked almost all the time while axes won't be sparked even half the time.
    Seven 100+ characters leveled the hard way. Free to play. Mystic, Psychic, and Wizard left to level. b:victory
  • Sylvae - Sanctuary
    Sylvae - Sanctuary Posts: 1,018 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Another thread hijack. If you have your own question, make your own thread.

    How does one hijack their own thread?
  • Jaabg - Sanctuary
    Jaabg - Sanctuary Posts: 2,256 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    Sylvae - Sanctuary wrote: »
    How does one hijack their own thread?

    b:chuckle let's give him a break.
  • mrcharlyplustwo
    mrcharlyplustwo Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    Sylvae - Sanctuary wrote: »
    How does one hijack their own thread?
    Carefully?

    I picked up cheap AoS thanks. With a +2 refine they hit for 3/4 hit of the axes but do 3 hits for axe's 2 hits. Much more dps already.
  • Sakubatou - Sanctuary
    Sakubatou - Sanctuary Posts: 4,001 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    Sylvae - Sanctuary wrote: »
    How does one hijack their own thread?

    Bah, my mistake. He did have a topic diversion in another thread so I assumed this was the same. Sorry MrCharly, editted my post.
    Seven 100+ characters leveled the hard way. Free to play. Mystic, Psychic, and Wizard left to level. b:victory
  • Sylvae - Sanctuary
    Sylvae - Sanctuary Posts: 1,018 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Bah, my mistake. He did have a topic diversion in another thread so I assumed this was the same. Sorry MrCharly, editted my post.

    Actually, in that one the 2nd post that answered the OP it was mentioned to learn channel casting, so his question about how to do it was in the same vein. :P

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