BM NW and stuff

Zanryu - Lothranis

I had this up in the screenshot and videos section, but I decided I'd like to move it here since it involves BM gameplay, sooooo. I dunno, watch it and stuff. Or don't. Your choice. But if you watch it you get cookies.

Derp

Sylvae - Sanctuary

Now that was a good NW video for BMs to watch. Gear swapped where needed, mix between land and air, changing directions and use of leaps to keep them confused. Most things were done with a pretty clear purpose behind them. And alot of the same tactics can be used whether in a party or just going solo.

If BM forum gets a NW strategy sticky, this should be on it.

TheDan - Sanctuary

I added a brief NW overview to my own PvP guide, but it's not as detailed (if anyone wants to add to it that'd be great too) as I'm lacking video footage. I haven't really had the opportunity to record any NWs due to getting off work late and not having time to even get myself a proper squad.

Well played; your battles are a lot more interesting than what I experience on my own server it seems. It's probably because I end up staying on offense and fighting the lower geared spectrum of 20 people outside of enemy base and there's less challenge.

Maelael - Heavens Tear

Pretty good show!

You're good with your marrows from what I saw, I like it. You're also utilizing good fast skills on a lot of people, and acing getting in some stuns. I really liked some of your morai skill usage, you're a lot better with Reckless Rush than I am. You had some very nice well timed leaps too. Very good use of the buddy system with your team.

GOD your opponents were terribad.

Some stuff I noticed:

Save Blade Tornado for large groups, otherwise save/utilize that chi for Will and other skills if theres only a few people. You didn't have the chi in some situations it would have been nice to BT instead of other skills. Like right in the 13 min area, you used BT to kill 2 people (One survived), then later you ran into a BIG group, that had you saved the chi, you could have BTed them all and did more. Save that BT man.

Use smack more for some CCs. There were some areas, if your opponents were better...that would have been a life saver.

I saw you just attack someone in vortex, when you could have cancelled it before you even entered it with multiple skills.

You fly a lot, and I understand its to get places...but damage intake wise, you're best on ground. It gets you noticed, targeted, and hit - thereby bringing attention to you away from DDs or flag carriers and you getting more points.

However on that point, I can say that the smarter people on the server who get tired of me punching peoples faces in, and CCing them will CC the hell outta me. I spent one 10 min NW last night slept/sealed/stunned for like 8 minutes of it. I knew the cleric and sin doing it, and well...that was totally smart. Had I been in the air I *may* have avoided it.

Did I not see antistun+IG? Several situations you could have utilized that to avoid CCs and one of your deaths.

Flag Carrying:
Personally I'm not a fan of leap forward, turn, leap back. I feel I waste too much time turning around, bramble screws with it, and leap back is only anti damage. Your call, but I think there is some more efficient ways.

Barely anyone around: HP at 90% dug, Cloud Sprint, Leap Forward, Will, and if nobody around - charger with 1-3 seconds left of will. Carries the antistun for a few seconds for you to speed away.

Heavy amount of opponents: HP at 90% Dug, and Will out of the hole. At that point take your time with leap and cloud sprint. Charger orb only if you get away from people, and otherwise use shadow binder then survive till will refreshes.

Lately, Im a huge fan of leap inbetween other movement skills, and LOTS of jumping.


But again overall pretty good man. Shows some good kill strats along with some good CC moments. I would have liked to see how you handle taking down a real flag carrier.

TheDan - Sanctuary

Yeah, I did notice he used dew of star instead of fortify IG, his opponents were kinda weak though, very few R9 opponents. Less populated server though, can't really blame him lol.

I actually like the leap forward and back when my other skills are on cooldown. It allows you to move 32 meters in distance despite having slow debuffs stacked on you. There are times when I have to use a vac powder or ironguard instead of charger orb because I'm getting stun-locked and hit hard and end up only making it 75% of the way to the turn in point with no sprints and no apoth. Spamming leaps can be effective to move distances when you have the slow debuff stacked on you until the sprints come off cooldown.

Jumping high in the air with the charger orb / sprints makes you untarget-able by most melee so it can be pretty effective. You'll take 50% damage if they try to fly up and attack too.

Maelael - Heavens Tear

Well I know archers get all excited about their speed buff - but so many times I see them get 1-4 shot even during the buff. And these are heavy R9/R9rr ones too. Plus Ill reel em in and they're confused for a few as well. It's kinda best to have them use it on a tankier class.

Really we should not be running flags - Id rather have a seeker run it (much slower) than us, as we have better CCs to slow down and deal with the people trying to kill the flag runner.

More specifically on distances and skills towards Dan: Try not to hit will or any antistuns till youre about at or past the spawn points up front towards center. If you can make it there, between:

Will->Leap->Charger
Will->Charger
Will->Leap->Shadowbinder

Every time I do that I make it, at times with speed to spare. It depends who is on me - little bit of people Ill charger with 1-3 seconds left of will to ensure Im not stopped but speed ahead, other times if my crew has them down (or there is nobody there) Ill just leap then head into charger. Heavy fights its Will -> Leap -> Shadowbinder for the win, if I steer bad I might have to leap forward to the delivery (usually Im at or up the stairs when I shadowbinder).

I really feel its about patience and utilizing your support well. But if you're really hard covered - you just blow what you need to survive till support arrives imho. Get past/survive the stun locks, yell at your team or chat with you side to come support.

Zanryu - Lothranis

Maelael - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Pretty good show!

You're good with your marrows from what I saw, I like it. You're also utilizing good fast skills on a lot of people, and acing getting in some stuns. I really liked some of your morai skill usage, you're a lot better with Reckless Rush than I am. You had some very nice well timed leaps too. Very good use of the buddy system with your team.

GOD your opponents were terribad.

Some stuff I noticed:

Save Blade Tornado for large groups, otherwise save/utilize that chi for Will and other skills if theres only a few people. You didn't have the chi in some situations it would have been nice to BT instead of other skills. Like right in the 13 min area, you used BT to kill 2 people (One survived), then later you ran into a BIG group, that had you saved the chi, you could have BTed them all and did more. Save that BT man.

Use smack more for some CCs. There were some areas, if your opponents were better...that would have been a life saver.

I saw you just attack someone in vortex, when you could have cancelled it before you even entered it with multiple skills.

You fly a lot, and I understand its to get places...but damage intake wise, you're best on ground. It gets you noticed, targeted, and hit - thereby bringing attention to you away from DDs or flag carriers and you getting more points.

However on that point, I can say that the smarter people on the server who get tired of me punching peoples faces in, and CCing them will CC the hell outta me. I spent one 10 min NW last night slept/sealed/stunned for like 8 minutes of it. I knew the cleric and sin doing it, and well...that was totally smart. Had I been in the air I *may* have avoided it.

Did I not see antistun+IG? Several situations you could have utilized that to avoid CCs and one of your deaths.

Flag Carrying:
Personally I'm not a fan of leap forward, turn, leap back. I feel I waste too much time turning around, bramble screws with it, and leap back is only anti damage. Your call, but I think there is some more efficient ways.

Barely anyone around: HP at 90% dug, Cloud Sprint, Leap Forward, Will, and if nobody around - charger with 1-3 seconds left of will. Carries the antistun for a few seconds for you to speed away.

Heavy amount of opponents: HP at 90% Dug, and Will out of the hole. At that point take your time with leap and cloud sprint. Charger orb only if you get away from people, and otherwise use shadow binder then survive till will refreshes.

Lately, Im a huge fan of leap inbetween other movement skills, and LOTS of jumping.


But again overall pretty good man. Shows some good kill strats along with some good CC moments. I would have liked to see how you handle taking down a real flag carrier.

On Lothranis it's pretty rare to find large groups of people, the most I've seen grouped up was about 5. Blade Tornado gives me a pretty large amount of damage output, so if it's a target I feel needs to be taken out or if I need some form of anti-stun+damage, it does the job pretty well.

The reason I don't use IGs is because I rarely carry any, I don't have too much money to spend on pots at the moment. It's all being saved, I splurged a bit that NW on chargers, dews, and shadowbinders, but no shops I saw had IGs. I use Smack to help land kills, because some of the targets are rather squishy. There are times I wish I had it for CC but usually I have other options available to me, the extra kills/damage add up so I think it's a fair trade off.

Flying is faster than running around without my sprints, plus it allows me to save them for when I get into a tight spot. On that flag carry where I nearly died, I should have used a Shadow Binder instead of a Charger, it would have allowed me to avoid getting frozen multiple times and made for a much smoother carry, but I didn't expect an R9R3 fishy to come for me. A mistake on my part, I admit, but luckily my team was there to back me up.



Also, I appreciate the input from everyone. Every NW I learn something new, so even if I'm in a losing nation I'm still getting something out of it at least. I'm just glad I finally have a chance for real group PvP on Lothranis, since we didn't get a whole lot of that before NW.

TheDan - Sanctuary

Maelael - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Well I know archers get all excited about their speed buff - but so many times I see them get 1-4 shot even during the buff. And these are heavy R9/R9rr ones too. Plus Ill reel em in and they're confused for a few as well. It's kinda best to have them use it on a tankier class.

Really we should not be running flags - Id rather have a seeker run it (much slower) than us, as we have better CCs to slow down and deal with the people trying to kill the flag runner.

More specifically on distances and skills towards Dan: Try not to hit will or any antistuns till youre about at or past the spawn points up front towards center. If you can make it there, between:

Will->Leap->Charger
Will->Charger
Will->Leap->Shadowbinder

Every time I do that I make it, at times with speed to spare. It depends who is on me - little bit of people Ill charger with 1-3 seconds left of will to ensure Im not stopped but speed ahead, other times if my crew has them down (or there is nobody there) Ill just leap then head into charger. Heavy fights its Will -> Leap -> Shadowbinder for the win, if I steer bad I might have to leap forward to the delivery (usually Im at or up the stairs when I shadowbinder).

I really feel its about patience and utilizing your support well. But if you're really hard covered - you just blow what you need to survive till support arrives imho. Get past/survive the stun locks, yell at your team or chat with you side to come support.

I usually end up in the 8v20s but against decent opponents. For some reason in those situations the flag always spawns center so usually there's a barrage or 2 on me my while i'm digging the flag and I'm in a tight spot. I'm forced to fortify and IG to even dig the flag, then left with my 2 sprints. If I get home in time for a NW squad, it's usually me, a r999 barb, and a r999 seeker watching each spawn. It really depends if we make it together into the same instance.

I've always done it opposite, but it seems to work. The only exception is the above when I'm actually forced to use my apoth before I can even get the flag. My server is flooded with R9 archers so it's hard to fight it out in the mid down in the pit outnumbered. I holy path and charger orb first, then blue sprint, and walk until will is needed, using leaps when appropriate.

Fonyan - Heavens Tear

Yeah, go Bandicam! /)

Zanryu - Lothranis

TheDan - Sanctuary wrote: »

Believe it or not, reckless rush is a very excellent execution skill when your target is already stun-locked and at half life. I know people commonly use it as a chasing skill, but I've started using it as an execution skill as well. The channeling time is instant and can be chained for a quick execution instead of chaining 3 quick skills in-between a roar, you can chain 4 before a bash assuming they haven't died already.

Reckless rush is an all purpose skill that bypasses defense level / invoke / plume shell etc. Good chasing skill, as well as damage dealing. I've used it several times to kill opponents that use plume shell at less than 50% life, or use wings of grace etc. Can use it to chain lock after a smack now too since smack seal effect duration was increased.

If I'm understanding it correctly, it was changed to 120% base damage and will deal 3x more damage at 40% hp or less, and has 3x your crit chance to deal 1.5x damage

Reckless Rush and Blade Tornado... two skills we really needed. They make things a lot more... interesting.

Maelael - Heavens Tear

Zanryu - Lothranis wrote: »

Also, I appreciate the input from everyone. Every NW I learn something new, so even if I'm in a losing nation I'm still getting something out of it at least. I'm just glad I finally have a chance for real group PvP on Lothranis, since we didn't get a whole lot of that before NW.

Word on the above, esp the price of the apoth. I just try to share what ive experienced and learned with the other BMs who care about exploring the class and its capabilities.

TheDan - Sanctuary wrote: »

I usually end up in the 8v20s but against decent opponents. For some reason in those situations the flag always spawns center so usually there's a barrage or 2 on me my while i'm digging the flag and I'm in a tight spot. I'm forced to fortify and IG to even dig the flag, then left with my 2 sprints. If I get home in time for a NW squad, it's usually me, a r999 barb, and a r999 seeker watching each spawn. It really depends if we make it together into the same instance.

I've always done it opposite, but it seems to work. The only exception is the above when I'm actually forced to use my apoth before I can even get the flag. My server is flooded with R9 archers so it's hard to fight it out in the mid down in the pit outnumbered. I holy path and charger orb first, then blue sprint, and walk until will is needed, using leaps when appropriate.

You need to yell at your seeker and DDs to take out those archers, or do it yourself/hold the flag area till the barb gets there. I encounter the same, and sadly, I gotta IG dig or just keep stunning/aoeing till the barb or seeker gets their slow [bleep] there. You you will get faster carries if one person digs and concentrates on saving apoth and skills while the rest deal with the **** down there and above.

Usually when Im waiting on flag spawns if im not eastmid or westmid (no joke, we were 4 man defending base lock lands on dark from flame last night...heh), I stay at the top of the pit and just troll for DDs. If I have to get down there and stop them from grabbing the flag, or some 5k hp cleric in TT90 goes for it (usually dead, but Ill ninja it if they're stupid and want to carry), Ill change up.

I just find it key to hold the hell outta will and apoth till youre past those forward spawn points so you can carry all the way home. However under heavy fire Ive usually gotta will out of the hole (after Fortify+IG too), and so far when Ive done the turn leaps it's kinda screwed me. If it works for you, Im guessing youre not brambled at the very least lol - Id say go for it. It just don't work for me and Im usually Brambled (Cause Itsehk is awesome).

But kinda to summate, we learned 5-10 min fights are better for points due to your side gaining points from time and damage, so theres nothing wrong with holding the flag area till a carrier gets there. I literally just go defensive and roar/aoe the [bleep] outta everyone. That way whoever gets there second/third and is set with skills and apoth carries for the win better.

I'll even switch to my def level axe in the pit if Im really not killin anyone with the R9rr, cause all I care about is keeping them from digging until my puller gets there. I've had a few IG dig, but so far morai skills seem to interrupt that (Except BT).

OFC, a few hole fights woulda been way better had I remembered to check that my autopot was still on...

(Keep note: BT does not interrupt flag digging. I swear Ive said this weeks ago but I keep seeing people try to use it to interrupt flag digging)

Unholly - Lothranis

Yay i saw my self! Yay i messed up spectacularly! b:victory

Im not going to pretend to know much about bm's but a few things i thought of:

-Maybe try out a rolling skill bar to swap your two gear sets faster.

-Flag carrying: could a bm potential combine BT with a charger orb for the 12 seconds anti stun, wouldn't that be better than a shadow binder? granted you would need 3 sparks after you had dug the flag.

charger orb>Blade tempest>tiger leap>will

not sure if 13 seconds at 200% speed (allowing for 2 seconds BT cast) > 15 seconds 100% speed, just spit-balling.

anywayz i enjoyed the vid

T_i_m - Dreamweaver

Unholly - Lothranis wrote: »

-Maybe try out a rolling skill bar to swap your two gear sets faster.

There are a few existing threads about this.

-Flag carrying: could a bm potential combine BT with a charger orb for the 12 seconds anti stun, wouldn't that be better than a shadow binder? granted you would need 3 sparks after you had dug the flag.

Certainly, or you can combo with blue sprint. I prefer to hold onto sparks and save it for getting jumped since the 50% damage reduction can really buy time for your team to help, and it counteracts attempts to drain your chi.

TheDan - Sanctuary

Maelael - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Word on the above, esp the price of the apoth. I just try to share what ive experienced and learned with the other BMs who care about exploring the class and its capabilities.



You need to yell at your seeker and DDs to take out those archers, or do it yourself/hold the flag area till the barb gets there. I encounter the same, and sadly, I gotta IG dig or just keep stunning/aoeing till the barb or seeker gets their slow [bleep] there. You you will get faster carries if one person digs and concentrates on saving apoth and skills while the rest deal with the **** down there and above.

Usually when Im waiting on flag spawns if im not eastmid or westmid (no joke, we were 4 man defending base lock lands on dark from flame last night...heh), I stay at the top of the pit and just troll for DDs. If I have to get down there and stop them from grabbing the flag, or some 5k hp cleric in TT90 goes for it (usually dead, but Ill ninja it if they're stupid and want to carry), Ill change up.

I just find it key to hold the hell outta will and apoth till youre past those forward spawn points so you can carry all the way home. However under heavy fire Ive usually gotta will out of the hole (after Fortify+IG too), and so far when Ive done the turn leaps it's kinda screwed me. If it works for you, Im guessing youre not brambled at the very least lol - Id say go for it. It just don't work for me and Im usually Brambled (Cause Itsehk is awesome).

But kinda to summate, we learned 5-10 min fights are better for points due to your side gaining points from time and damage, so theres nothing wrong with holding the flag area till a carrier gets there. I literally just go defensive and roar/aoe the [bleep] outta everyone. That way whoever gets there second/third and is set with skills and apoth carries for the win better.

I'll even switch to my def level axe in the pit if Im really not killin anyone with the R9rr, cause all I care about is keeping them from digging until my puller gets there. I've had a few IG dig, but so far morai skills seem to interrupt that (Except BT).

OFC, a few hole fights woulda been way better had I remembered to check that my autopot was still on...

(Keep note: BT does not interrupt flag digging. I swear Ive said this weeks ago but I keep seeing people try to use it to interrupt flag digging)

Yeah, you're right I'm not brambled; my squad usually doesn't have one, not because we don't want one, but because we don't have one that doesn't already go with a different squad.

But yeah, I'll usually die if I have to fortify + IG to dig flag then will out of the pit. The rare occasion I do survive is when my support is covering me well and I'm able to leap spam until my regular sprints are back off cooldown. The slow debuffs stack on you and can make you run at less than 1 m/s so it's really really easy for enemies to catch up and lock you.

For some reason I haven't been experiencing the same. I've had 8v20s that last 5-10 mins and I'm first place each time and only get like 700-800 contribution because we literally steam-roll the opponents and end up spawn killing them. The longer fights where there was actually some decent resistance going onto 15-20 minutes gave me and each of our top 4 squad members 3,000 flat with the same numbers.

Maelael - Heavens Tear

TheDan - Sanctuary wrote: »

Yeah, you're right I'm not brambled; my squad usually doesn't have one, not because we don't want one, but because we don't have one that doesn't already go with a different squad.

But yeah, I'll usually die if I have to fortify + IG to dig flag then will out of the pit. The rare occasion I do survive is when my support is covering me well and I'm able to leap spam until my regular sprints are back off cooldown. The slow debuffs stack on you and can make you run at less than 1 m/s so it's really really easy for enemies to catch up and lock you.

For some reason I haven't been experiencing the same. I've had 8v20s that last 5-10 mins and I'm first place each time and only get like 700-800 contribution because we literally steam-roll the opponents and end up spawn killing them. The longer fights where there was actually some decent resistance going onto 15-20 minutes gave me and each of our top 4 squad members 3,000 flat with the same numbers.

Okay the issue with the 5-10's with low contri is twofold:

1. You guys aren't taking enough damage (and somewhat, killing enough people)
2. Your enemy's soulforce is really effin low.

Examples:

I actually pulled in 600 contribution digging one flag, and taking a bunch of damage...and then dying, and I left the instance to go elsewhere cause I saw nothing but TT70 and TT80 weapons on the people on my side. The opposite side was two squads of faction mates full of +10 to +12s all over the place, HUGE soulforce. I was literally there for like 2 minutes. In this case I took damage (Id say like, maybe 50k total), dug a flag, and the soulforce of my opponents were high.

Doing 4-6 man base locks, if its nothing BUT scrubs, Im talking like +2 gear and level 90s, we score like 500-1k - even if we take a decent amount of damage, 6 death half the instance out, and it lasts 5-10 minutes. They just dont pump out enough damage nor have the soulforce.

Likewise, if its a decent mix of scrubs and well geared but badly played people, well win in 5-10 mins, but we'll soak tons of damage and kill a lot of people. In those cases we'll 2-3k easy.

VS a pro squad, even if we lose and get 6 deathed out...we pull in like 2-3k in a 5-10 minute battle.

So it really, really comes down to damage taken total and soulforce highly. So more quality opponents = more points for you (and them). More scrubs = less points for you (but more for them really).

Zanryu - Lothranis

Unholly - Lothranis wrote: »

Yay i saw my self! Yay i messed up spectacularly! b:victory

Im not going to pretend to know much about bm's but a few things i thought of:

-Maybe try out a rolling skill bar to swap your two gear sets faster.

-Flag carrying: could a bm potential combine BT with a charger orb for the 12 seconds anti stun, wouldn't that be better than a shadow binder? granted you would need 3 sparks after you had dug the flag.

charger orb>Blade tempest>tiger leap>will

not sure if 13 seconds at 200% speed (allowing for 2 seconds BT cast) > 15 seconds 100% speed, just spit-balling.

anywayz i enjoyed the vid

Honestly if you didn't IG, I woulda died. You aren't the only one that goofed up. I thought I had 3 sparks but, as you can see in the video, I didn't. I didn't think anyone was there so I risked it and used a Charger for a faster carry instead of a Shadowbinder which would have let me get away from you. Oh well, mistakes are to be learned from. My plan was to start BT there then use a Charger, but, as I said.. didn't have the sparks.

I've never liked swapping bars. I may take the time to get accustomed to that eventually but, I really don't like it.

I don't pop a charger before BT, you can use apothecary DURING it, so what I do (for a full flag carry) HP>Will>Marrows (only mag if people are on me)>BT>Shadow Binder>Sprint, if nobody's on me from the start, I change it up a bit depending on the situation.

TheDan - Sanctuary

Maelael - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Okay the issue with the 5-10's with low contri is twofold:

1. You guys aren't taking enough damage (and somewhat, killing enough people)
2. Your enemy's soulforce is really effin low.

Examples:

I actually pulled in 600 contribution digging one flag, and taking a bunch of damage...and then dying, and I left the instance to go elsewhere cause I saw nothing but TT70 and TT80 weapons on the people on my side. The opposite side was two squads of faction mates full of +10 to +12s all over the place, HUGE soulforce. I was literally there for like 2 minutes. In this case I took damage (Id say like, maybe 50k total), dug a flag, and the soulforce of my opponents were high.

Doing 4-6 man base locks, if its nothing BUT scrubs, Im talking like +2 gear and level 90s, we score like 500-1k - even if we take a decent amount of damage, 6 death half the instance out, and it lasts 5-10 minutes. They just dont pump out enough damage nor have the soulforce.

Likewise, if its a decent mix of scrubs and well geared but badly played people, well win in 5-10 mins, but we'll soak tons of damage and kill a lot of people. In those cases we'll 2-3k easy.

VS a pro squad, even if we lose and get 6 deathed out...we pull in like 2-3k in a 5-10 minute battle.

So it really, really comes down to damage taken total and soulforce highly. So more quality opponents = more points for you (and them). More scrubs = less points for you (but more for them really).

Yeah, the 5-10 minute rolls are usually when we out-gear them so hard we one shot them all and take no damage, so the contribution is low.

I guess what I was thinking is that when you get more quality opponents, doesn't the time naturally increase? Due to your opponents being more competent to make the battles last longer. I don't think I've been able to roll over half decent opponents in 5-10 minutes, maybe 10-15 though. I guess if it were 20v20 it'd be possible to roll over even good opponents in 5-10 minutes.

I've also gotten kicked out and gotten 3K contribution before, it's kind of interesting; 2v20 we lost in 10 mins but both got 3K.

Sakubatou - Sanctuary

TheDan - Sanctuary wrote: »

Yeah, the 5-10 minute rolls are usually when we out-gear them so hard we one shot them all and take no damage, so the contribution is low.

I guess what I was thinking is that when you get more quality opponents, doesn't the time naturally increase? Due to your opponents being more competent to make the battles last longer. I don't think I've been able to roll over half decent opponents in 5-10 minutes, maybe 10-15 though. I guess if it were 20v20 it'd be possible to roll over even good opponents in 5-10 minutes.

I've also gotten kicked out and gotten 3K contribution before, it's kind of interesting; 2v20 we lost in 10 mins but both got 3K.

On the flipside of this, if you are one of the 20 fighting the base lock it tends to generate a high amount of total contribution and you get a good amount of contribution from that.

Last NW we had 2 Vindi squads trying to baselock my nation. It was an unsuccessful baselock as they usually had 2 lands active in wars and a third had just ended and so we had a way out of the base. I came back from the outer lands to try to retrieve the baselock, so even though i was on the losing side I was out of the base. It was 8-10 Vindis vs me and whatever other 19 people were coming from the base (usually lower leveled players). They were stomping most of them and generating huge amount of contribution for the total, but we outnumbered them. Because of this I was able to generate several kills, become a target and take a ton of damage, and escape back into "scrub land" behind the 1 shots that were my nationmates if I needed a second.

They seemed to generate the total contribution and they were winning these 5-10 minute wars, but each time I finished rank 1 and got a large chunk of the total contribution. So I was losing and getting 1k cont in each quick fight. Worked well for me.


Also, TheDan and I started out in the Light nation and both traveled the same route to baselock Frost, then bounced around in NW together. Was kind of entertaining seeing us doing almost the exact same moves at the exact same time. Let's me know I'm doing something right. Only difference, and kind of embarassingly so, was I'd sometimes whip out claws. One major reason is I get 4.5k more soulforce from my claws right now over my axes so I equip them for SF skills like Reel In.

Maelael - Heavens Tear

TheDan - Sanctuary wrote: »

Yeah, the 5-10 minute rolls are usually when we out-gear them so hard we one shot them all and take no damage, so the contribution is low.

I guess what I was thinking is that when you get more quality opponents, doesn't the time naturally increase? Due to your opponents being more competent to make the battles last longer. I don't think I've been able to roll over half decent opponents in 5-10 minutes, maybe 10-15 though. I guess if it were 20v20 it'd be possible to roll over even good opponents in 5-10 minutes.

I've also gotten kicked out and gotten 3K contribution before, it's kind of interesting; 2v20 we lost in 10 mins but both got 3K.

Well it's a share of the total contribution available to your side - mag's thread explains this well. So its totally possible to 3k out in a 2 v 20 in 10 mins.

However, we have rolled good opponents 6 v 20 in about 8? ish minutes before and almost all of us 3ked out. They just weren't coordinated enough to handle our methods during the battle (there was two actually similar battles). They had high soulforce, we took a TON of damage, killed a good amount, but mostly just coordinated well on flag delivery.

So really when we talk quality to make points, I think its just gotta be soulforce and your ability to tank their lots of damage. In the example above it was 2 sins, Barb, BM, Seeker, and Cleric. The cleric was rarely hit, and the sins were mostly murdering people and ninjaing everything. But me and the seeker and barb took TONS of damage.

Arctix - Dreamweaver

Damn zan I highly miss ur pk in dw wen cc was allowed

U were like proest in that b:surrender

Zanryu - Dreamweaver

Arctix - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Damn zan I highly miss ur pk in dw wen cc was allowed

U were like proest in that b:surrender

I miss CC. I miss it so very much. Bring it back please. b:sad