Gear plan...suggestions?

Eoria - Harshlands

So about a month before NW came out, I went ahead and spent a bil on chienkuning my 2nd recast Nirv set over to 3rd recast Nirv because the thought didn't occur to me that they'd change the forges so drastically for us.

So my gear currently looks like this: http://www.pwcalc.com/2c1cd31a86c49e85

And then the r9 sale came so I decided to bite the bullet and buy all the GSTs I need for ring/armor/wep. I figured I'd just get all the rep and medals afterwards and that at least my set's not a total waste since my mystic and mage can still use it.

So this is about what I'm aiming for in the near future: http://www.pwcalc.com/162fc3ff04a01168

I'm slowly farming the Sky Cover and the summerwinds are basically taken care of thanks to my NW squad. I also have three oceans saved since I never got around to rerolling my Nirvana boots though I may just merch them to get my medals and rep faster (weirdly, if I only +7 the top instead of +10, I end up with the same HP as I have now in the calc, lol).

I guess the main thing is where do I go after I have all that and it's all +10 and I have my puri wep? I mean, tbh, I probably won't be using the puri wep full-time for awhile as my def levels are still kinda low without jades. Obvious exceptions being when dealing with 50,000 sins/BMs and in NW.

Should I try to get a g16 Cube Neck+Warsong belt? Or would it be a better use of money to just start trying to buy jades and garnet gems? I'm also thinking to try and reroll my r8r wep for a better set of adds with the defense levels and to possibly stat another 50 vit in, but idk atm.

halp.

tweakz

Sky Covers are way over rated imho. I'd use the Lunar ring and used the saved coin elsewhere.

Aeliah - Dreamweaver

Sky Cover isn't overrated if you want to actually hurt stuff. Instead of losing all of the damage of a magic ring, you can keep almost all of it via the 2 attack lvl stat. In my tests, r8 ring doesn't do all that much more dmg than the Sky Cover; what you'll miss most is the -channeling, what you'll enjoy most is the much superior physical defense.

I initially wrote that I wouldn't do the math for you, but lol. Short story is, go for jades first.

Here is a comparison of upgrading from +10 g14 neck to +10 g16 neck, and a benefit/cost analysis.

1191 phy def on g14 +10 necklace, 1 attack lvl, 1 def lvl; cost with no refine = ~80mil (lets say), cost with refine = (optimistically) 180mil
1349 phy def on g16 +10 necklace, 5 attack lvl, 5 def lvl. cost with no refine = ~760mil (based on g14 price), cost refined = ~ 860mil

In other words we have price difference of 660mil, for 4 def lvl, 4 attack lvls, and 258 phy def (difference increases a bit when +12ed). Lets equate that somehow to cost of doing it with gems instead.

-2 jade of steady def (4 def lvls total) =~230mil
-4 diamond of tiger (4 attack lvl) = ~80mil
-2 garnet gems (125 phy def each, total 250 phy def) =~80mil

Total cost is 390mil. 660mil-390mil = 270mil

Clearly, g16 is much better than g14. However, I argue that you get better gain/money by putting in the gems first before upgrading to g16 necklace. The 270mil represents how much extra you are spending on a necklace to get the same upgrades you could have gotten with gems.

If you take the 660mil and spend it on jades instead, you can acquire roughly 6 of them, for 12 defense levels.

12 defense levels > 4 attack lvl + 4 def lvl + 250 phy def

No brainer!

Thus buy your gems first.

Also: be careful about socket garnet gems. If you plan on upgrading your ornaments to higher refines at a later date, take that into account when using Asterelle's socket calculator (see one of her posts for the link to it). When you take end-game refines on your ornaments into account, full jades is gonna win over garnets every time, and it will even win over drakeflames if you have +12 ornaments for high, unbuffed physical defense.

I recommend full jades if you can afford it for sure. Each jade represents a flat 2% dmg reduction from 3rd cast people, because their attack lvl will ALWAYS be higher than your defense level. Reduced benefit from defense level only occurs when you have MORE defense lvl than they have attack lvl! And defense lvl is just OP in pve anyways, so no worries there.

Aeliah - Dreamweaver

Oh, just looked at your pwcalc for the first time.

Why on earth do you have SO much vit statted? No no no no no! Put it into magic. Particularly as you start gaining better survivability against dps, what you really have to watch out for is your magic defense. We have a lot of ways to defend against physical damage, not so many against magic. Your magic dmg (and thus heal power in pk) is way lower than other 3rd cast people. Your magic defense is low; 3rd cast arcanes may 2 shot you. Your hp isn't all that much higher considering how many points are being thrown into vit!

This is endgame gear now. Take that vit out, put into magic, and get your hp from your refines!

Also, I can understand somewhat that you might think you can't do well without the defense levels from the r8r, but I think you are severely underestimating the r9rr weapon. The purify proc happens alllll the time. Sometimes all it takes is a single hit and off you go running.

As well, a good defense is nothing if you dont' have a decent offense. For example, in pk, you can tank all the damage you want, but unless you can hit back, you aren't the least bit scary. A tank without dmg is like a barb without arma. You'll sit there taking dmg until eventually you die. Thats all well and good if you are pulling a cata, but you aren't doing that, are you! One of the best ways to deter a careless attack by the enemy is to snuff them out instantly if they take you lightly. A dead enemy is an enemy who isn't hitting you.

Eoria - Harshlands

Aeliah - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Oh, just looked at your pwcalc for the first time.

Why on earth do you have SO much vit statted? No no no no no! Put it into magic. Particularly as you start gaining better survivability against dps, what you really have to watch out for is your magic defense. We have a lot of ways to defend against physical damage, not so many against magic. Your magic dmg (and thus heal power in pk) is way lower than other 3rd cast people. Your magic defense is low; 3rd cast arcanes may 2 shot you. Your hp isn't all that much higher considering how many points are being thrown into vit!

This is endgame gear now. Take that vit out, put into magic, and get your hp from your refines!

Lets not get into the pure mag vs. vit debate. It's dumb and I'm not going to keep beating that dead horse.

Also, I can understand somewhat that you might think you can't do well without the defense levels from the r8r, but I think you are severely underestimating the r9rr weapon. The purify proc happens alllll the time. Sometimes all it takes is a single hit and off you go running.

I'm not underestimating it. I know how good it is from playing that server which must not be named. The problems are you NEED gear to go along with it (including jades) and puri proc isn't gonna help me not take constant 6k+ crits from r9rr archers (which, lets be honest, all I die to anymore are like r9rr archers, r9rr barbs, or if I'm not quick enough on hitting expel for sins). Also, I'm never on the ground in TW to take advantage of the speed boost unless I'm knocked down via barb morai skill or I'm dropping to reposition+damage reduction due to sin/archer on me.

As well, a good defense is nothing if you dont' have a decent offense. For example, in pk, you can tank all the damage you want, but unless you can hit back, you aren't the least bit scary. A tank without dmg is like a barb without arma. You'll sit there taking dmg until eventually you die. Thats all well and good if you are pulling a cata, but you aren't doing that, are you! One of the best ways to deter a careless attack by the enemy is to snuff them out instantly if they take you lightly. A dead enemy is an enemy who isn't hitting you.

Honey, all I do on cleric PVP-wise is TW and group pvp for the most part. I'm pretty much purely a support cleric for a group of like six r9 archers with mostly full +12 gear and then a cata cleric for TW as well. Me DDing is absolutely dumb when all of those archers can kill everything much more efficiently than I can.

If I want to 1v1 pvp or DD in group PVP (besides NW), I just log mystic.

Anyway, thanks for the math. Guess I will just go for jades after I +10.

Edit- Erm...sec. I probably should have included this info but if I do do the g16 Cube neck, it'd be recasted via NW forges as that's what my NW group is planning on doing after we finish farming the summerwinds for everyone. If I don't though, I'd end up recasting the Sky Cover instead. Also uhh...760m is only like 4 or 5 jades on this server due to DoD prices.

WnbTank - Archosaur

Aeliah - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I initially wrote that I wouldn't do the math for you, but lol. Short story is, go for jades first.

Here is a comparison of upgrading from +10 g14 neck to +10 g16 neck, and a benefit/cost analysis.

1191 phy def on g14 +10 necklace, 1 attack lvl, 1 def lvl; cost with no refine = ~80mil (lets say), cost with refine = (optimistically) 180mil
1349 phy def on g16 +10 necklace, 5 attack lvl, 5 def lvl. cost with no refine = ~760mil (based on g14 price), cost refined = ~ 860mil

In other words we have price difference of 660mil, for 4 def lvl, 4 attack lvls, and 258 phy def (difference increases a bit when +12ed). Lets equate that somehow to cost of doing it with gems instead.

-2 jade of steady def (4 def lvls total) =~230mil
-4 diamond of tiger (4 attack lvl) = ~80mil
-2 garnet gems (125 phy def each, total 250 phy def) =~80mil

Total cost is 390mil. 660mil-390mil = 270mil

Clearly, g16 is much better than g14. However, I argue that you get better gain/money by putting in the gems first before upgrading to g16 necklace. The 270mil represents how much extra you are spending on a necklace to get the same upgrades you could have gotten with gems.

If you take the 660mil and spend it on jades instead, you can acquire roughly 6 of them, for 12 defense levels.

12 defense levels > 4 attack lvl + 4 def lvl + 250 phy def

No brainer!

Thus buy your gems first.

I recommend full jades if you can afford it for sure. Each jade represents a flat 2% dmg reduction from 3rd cast people, because their attack lvl will ALWAYS be higher than your defense level. Reduced benefit from defense level only occurs when you have MORE defense lvl than they have attack lvl! And defense lvl is just OP in pve anyways, so no worries there.

First of all, Cube neck is prolly the most cost ineffective piece of gear in game, discounting tomes. But truly, I wouldnt touch on upgrading cube neck till everything is at +10, heck, on N3 build replacing sky cover with g14 cube neck wont be worth it till bout half of your gear is at +10, rest being on +7.

But as far as upgrading cube neck goes, I really wouldnt bother with G16 neck till we are talking bout +12 armors build. You could spend that coin just so much better. But on other hand, G15 neck is one of the things Ive been debating myself. Ultimately it`s 200m over G14, gives 2 attack and defense levels, bit more defense due higher grade. G15 neck should come before JoSD, the upgrade costs ultimately same as 2 jades on archo. I suppose I shouldnt discount cost of refining new neck to +10 but one could just trade cube neck to clean one + coins to get part of refining money outta that.

And you are mistaken how defense levels work. Let`s consider dmg with no attack levels X. X * 1 +(Y-Z)/100 = dmg you take if attack levels > your defense levels, where Y = enemy attack levels and Z your defense levels. I suppose 90(jones, N3 wep, N3 set bonus) attack levels is sorta norm nowdays so using that.

X * 1 +(90-64)/100 = 1.26X with the latter build, adding JoSD:

X * 1 +(90-66)/100 = 1.24X.

(1.26X-1.24X)/1.26X *100% = 1.58% less dmg. This is because attack level is 1% more absolute damage to base, the more of those you have, the less efficient they come in relative sense.

Not that it really matters, nitpicking <.<. I remember only one case where Vit Stones offered higher effective health than JoSD, though I cant remember exactly why. Something along lines of barbs effective health against physical attacks in true form, fully buffed. Otherwise, JoSD has always offered best increase in defenses, usually distinctly better than alternatives. Though garnets tend to be pretty close on effective physical health when there is only 1 refined p.def orn on caster.

Ps. Actually, if I remember correctly, defense levels were even more powerful when there was more of them than attack levels.

Fryvorg - Sanctuary

Eoria - Harshlands wrote: »

Lets not get into the pure mag vs. vit debate. It's dumb and I'm not going to keep beating that dead horse.

Just some numbers (all with sprit's gift):
Your current magic damage: 9533-12569 (11051 in average)
With +10 refined weapon: 11447-14482 (12964,5 in average)

At the risk of losing 1520 HP, you'd get:
+7 refined weapon: 12103-15956 (14029 in average)
+10 refined weapon: 14531-18385 (16458 in average)

Comparing, the two +10 weapon damages, that's an increase of 27% of your magic damage at a loss of 14% of your HP. Remember, that with stronger heals you could keep yourself alive longer as well.

I just wanted to illustrate the difference. It's still your decision what you prefer.

Sakubatou - Sanctuary

Fryvorg - Sanctuary wrote: »

Just some numbers (all with sprit's gift):

Comparing, the two +10 weapon damages, that's an increase of 27% of your magic damage at a loss of 14% of your HP. Remember, that with stronger heals you could keep yourself alive longer as well.

Eoria - Harshlands wrote: »

Lets not get into the pure mag vs. vit debate. It's dumb and I'm not going to keep beating that dead horse...

Honey, all I do on cleric PVP-wise is TW and group pvp for the most part. I'm pretty much purely a support cleric for a group of like six r9 archers with mostly full +12 gear and then a cata cleric for TW as well. Me DDing is absolutely dumb when all of those archers can kill everything much more efficiently than I can.

This is the situation where I actually support a vit build. If she's not planning to attack, and she's around people who are charmed for their heals, then the vit v magic argument goes out the window right? They're looking for rebuffs, purifies, shields, their enemies being slept or frozen, and a small IH is better than no IH. If she were planning to dd or 1v1 or PvE we'd have something to discuss but for a pure support cleric vit is great.

I think your weapon is super sexy Eoria. Accuracy a mag resistance are... but the def levels are awesome. Still, I agree with Aeliah. Fully buffed, 15k hp and 15k pdef is not too hard to chop through if I can chain stuns. And as a support cleric you're my first target. I don't even need to kill you, I just need to stun you to start depriving your archers of heals and shields. Its a huge price jump but a purify weapon I'd consider a better defensive option.

Another huge ticket item (you're endgame, so thats all thats left) would be subbing out a ring for the r9r ring. It refines for both phys and magic defense, so you'll get more benefit from refinining an r9 ring then, say, upgrading to G16 cube neck. Plus the 5 def levels and +mag attack boosts.

Run some warsongs. Upgrade your belt. Probably the cheapest upgrade you have left.

We could probably start a discussion on WoCC vs G16 cape, since G16 would refine for 200 more hp at +10 and give a 500 hp set bonus, and around +20 magic. But, WoCC offers pdef and damage reduction so although I'd lean towards G16, its really a lateral move and would require +10ing and resharding. Not really worth it.

Fryvorg - Sanctuary

Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »

This is the situation where I actually support a vit build. If she's not planning to attack, and she's around people who are charmed for their heals, then the vit v magic argument goes out the window right? They're looking for rebuffs, purifies, shields, their enemies being slept or frozen, and a small IH is better than no IH. If she were planning to dd or 1v1 or PvE we'd have something to discuss but for a pure support cleric vit is great.

You have a point there and the vit will also grant more defense. At least for me, the numbers just seemed so obvious.
At least +10'ing the weapon should be considered ^^

Additionally to what Sakku suggested, you could also make the lv. 6 A Carmine Tear tome for 20 vit (so 5 more vit than currently) and +6 phys damage reduction, Eoria.

@WoCC: There's also the chance some time, when Eoria could upgrade it for more def. lvls, so that would be another reason to keep it.

Eoria - Harshlands

Maybe I didn't clarify, but I am getting the r9rr purify wep regardless. I just don't know if I'll use it as my main pvp wep for awhile.

And yeah. Cape is not being upgraded unless I magically get a recasted Matchless. Kinda the same for the helm at this point. As for tome...I don't really want to touch unless I can get a Scroll of Tome and upgrade it as my current tome is bound just because my mystic is kinda perma red-named at this point and I'm too cheap to keep on buying dolls all the time.

Fryvorg - Sanctuary

Ah right, the upgraded cape was for Matchless Wings, not WoCC. I always confuse them, sorry. Well, you gotta save thousands of Supply Tokens for the rest you aim for, anyway b:chuckle

Good luck!

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands

Aeliah - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Oh, just looked at your pwcalc for the first time.

Why on earth do you have SO much vit statted? No no no no no! Put it into magic. Particularly as you start gaining better survivability against dps, what you really have to watch out for is your magic defense. We have a lot of ways to defend against physical damage, not so many against magic. Your magic dmg (and thus heal power in pk) is way lower than other 3rd cast people. Your magic defense is low; 3rd cast arcanes may 2 shot you. Your hp isn't all that much higher considering how many points are being thrown into vit!

This is endgame gear now. Take that vit out, put into magic, and get your hp from your refines!

Also, I can understand somewhat that you might think you can't do well without the defense levels from the r8r, but I think you are severely underestimating the r9rr weapon. The purify proc happens alllll the time. Sometimes all it takes is a single hit and off you go running.

As well, a good defense is nothing if you dont' have a decent offense. For example, in pk, you can tank all the damage you want, but unless you can hit back, you aren't the least bit scary. A tank without dmg is like a barb without arma. You'll sit there taking dmg until eventually you die. Thats all well and good if you are pulling a cata, but you aren't doing that, are you! One of the best ways to deter a careless attack by the enemy is to snuff them out instantly if they take you lightly. A dead enemy is an enemy who isn't hitting you.

Fryvorg - Sanctuary wrote: »

Just some numbers (all with sprit's gift):
Your current magic damage: 9533-12569 (11051 in average)
With +10 refined weapon: 11447-14482 (12964,5 in average)

At the risk of losing 1520 HP, you'd get:
+7 refined weapon: 12103-15956 (14029 in average)
+10 refined weapon: 14531-18385 (16458 in average)

Comparing, the two +10 weapon damages, that's an increase of 27% of your magic damage at a loss of 14% of your HP. Remember, that with stronger heals you could keep yourself alive longer as well.

I just wanted to illustrate the difference. It's still your decision what you prefer.

She ask help for the gears not for her build.

Eoria: I think the R9 ring would be better than your lunar ring for the 5 defense level vs the 312 p.def.

Fryvorg - Sanctuary

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands wrote: »

She ask help for the gears not for her build.

Fryvorg - Sanctuary wrote: »

Just some numbers (all with sprit's gift):
Your current magic damage: 9533-12569 (11051 in average)
With +10 refined weapon: 11447-14482 (12964,5 in average)

And that isn't a gear-related suggestion? :P
I didn't really make that clear in my first post, but only in my second one, sorry.

Eoria - Harshlands

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands wrote: »

Eoria: I think the R9 ring would be better than your lunar ring for the 5 defense level vs the 312 p.def.

Actually, would anyone mind running the math on this? Is the 5 def levels better than the pdef?

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands

Eoria - Harshlands wrote: »

Actually, would anyone mind running the math on this? Is the 5 def levels better than the pdef?

Haha I'm bad in math so I can't do it, but I guess there's people that can do it easy.

But I do think that if 312 p.def was better than 5 def. levels than people would shard in garnet beside JosD.

WnbTank - Archosaur

Eoria - Harshlands wrote: »

Actually, would anyone mind running the math on this? Is the 5 def levels better than the pdef?

Using your current build I suppose? And which kind of attacker are we assuming? The attack levels do actually matter a bit. I`d initially guess R9 ring but I`ll get back to that in an hour or so, giving you chance to give me parameters.

Sakubatou - Sanctuary

Opponent attack levels and your defense levels are what matter most. Defense levels have diminishing returns.

Likewise, if an opponent has 100 attack levels they basically do double damage, so 5 def levels would cut out 2.5% of their damage. If they only have 150 attack levels then you cut out 3.34% of their total damage. Simply put, the higher the opponents attack levels the less of a chunk your def levels are taking out.

Still, I'd guess 5 def levels is better than 312 pdef.

Use Asterelle's socket calculator. Perv on the usualy sins/BMs gear you go up against and use their attack levels as a good basis. I "standardize" my opponents as having 90 attack levels because some have 50, some have 160, but most seem to average around 90 with r9 sets, and not r9t3 weapon.

WnbTank - Archosaur

Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »

Opponent attack levels and your defense levels are what matter most. Defense levels have diminishing returns.

Likewise, if an opponent has 100 attack levels they basically do double damage, so 5 def levels would cut out 2.5% of their damage. If they only have 150 attack levels then you cut out 3.34% of their total damage. Simply put, the higher the opponents attack levels the less of a chunk your def levels are taking out.

Still, I'd guess 5 def levels is better than 312 pdef.

Use Asterelle's socket calculator. Perv on the usualy sins/BMs gear you go up against and use their attack levels as a good basis. I "standardize" my opponents as having 90 attack levels because some have 50, some have 160, but most seem to average around 90 with r9 sets, and not r9t3 weapon.

Actually you are bit off on that. There is a point on more def levels than attack levels where, in absolute sense, defense levels are most efficient. It`s fairly easy to see with this example. Let`s assume 10 defense levels over attack levels.

1000dmg / (1 + (1.2 * (10 )/ 100)) = 892.86

1000 - 892.86 = 107.14

We assume 10 attack levels over defense levels.

1000 * ( 1 + (( 10 ) / 100 )) = 1100

1100 - 1000 = 100

107.14 > 100.

I know it`s honestly just nitpicking and the effectiveness of defense levels falls quickly under 1% when getting defense levels over attack levels. But I`ve been meaning to draw a straight for it, havent just found a program on internet which would do it for me. Maybe theyre just not free or Im not looking hard enough. Anyways, defense levels are strongest when they are close to attack levels.

But now as I started math, might as well answer the ring question

Using my sins build as example as I suppose those prolly one of the things that annoy OP fairly much. G16 daggers is 40 attack levels, Jones for 30 and N2 set bonus for 5 attack levels. I`m using your target or soon build as it seems like the one where one might replace the p.def engraving ring.

Suppose I should do math selfbuffed, though NW does give free barb buff, durr. I`ll use NW buffs, making cleric actually fully buffed, lol.

With lunar ring for effective health against physical attacks:

12207 / ( 1 - 0.76 ) / ( 1 + ( 75 - 49 ) / 100 ) = 40367

With R9 ring:

12207 / ( 1 - 0.75 ) / ( 1 + ( 75 - 54 ) / 100 ) = 40353

Interesting, my initial assumption was wrong. But we are talking bout such marginal difference Id use R9 ring for higher mag attack.

Eoria - Harshlands

Interesting. I suppose I can just try for a pdef/vit/HP mod on the r9 ring and it'll be fine.

Carichan - Sanctuary

Well, i for myself didnt go for warsong belt, i chose r999 belt instead because its stats are pretty much alike to warsong belt +10 but without the costs of refining it.

Also, full r999 seems to give you a big advantage.

This is what i will go for, currently im just missing shards and tome.

http://www.pwcalc.com/cb671e4c640d3c42

-- I added the individual stats of R999 armors.

Aeliah - Dreamweaver

I don't think you can really separate the build from the gear though. With the new gears, people are achieving higher hps than normal, true, but damage has gone up higher than the gains to defense. A basic r9rr build does at least 35% more dmg per hit, and in the case of archers, over 40% more dps (all that extra crit). r9rr armor is good, but not 35% better defensively than r9.

This is why I believe that strength of heals matters very very much. As a pure build, my stream of rejuvenation is recovering 18k hp (+12 r9rr, 19.5k-24k magic attack). Thats enough to one-heal almost all archers out there; certainly if they don't have barb buff at least. Because my heals are so much stronger than yours, I need fewer heals to keep my squad alive. This means, that when I am attacked (cleric is ALWAYS attacked), even if I"m put out of commission from a stun or what not, my ironheart is recovering a lot more hp than yours would be.

(I checked pwcalc; with your 150 vit build, you'll have 15.7-20k magic attack.)

Hmm on the subject of ironheart... assuming you are sage... ironheart is 35% of base magic attack + 1200 + 10% extra.

My build's average magic dmg is (19,500+24000)/2 = 21750
Your build's +12 r9rr average dmg would be (15700+20000)/2 = 17850

Difference in magic attack is 21750/17850 = 1.22, or 22% more magic dmg.

So my ironheart would be... ((0.35*21750)+1200)*1.1 = 9700 hp
Your ironheart would be... ((0.35*17850)+1200)*1.1 = 8200 hp

(9700/8200)= 1.18; or an 18% stronger ironheart. It is true that the +1200 counts for more the lower your base magic attack is, which is why the difference in this particular heal isn't quite as large as the difference in raw magic attack.

~

If you absolutely, truly, cannot live without some extra hp, consider the following option. You have 150 points into vit. Take out 100 of them. Put 50 of them into strength. Put the other 50 into whatever you want (maybe magic? or else back into vit). Equip a light armor helm and +12 it. A +12 light armor helm has 1000 more hp than a similar, +12 arcane helm. Thus you get same hp (1000+500 from vit points) for a stat cost of 50 fewer points; essentially freeing up 50 stat points. I myself have a g16 light armor helm equipped, so I'm 50 stat points off an entirely pure build, but when you look at the tradeoff, 1000 hp/50 stat points is 20 hp/stat point, a truly excellent tradeoff, particularly when compared with the 10 hp/vitality that clerics normally get... see what I'm saying?

As far as the r9 ring goes, its not just the higher magic attack, its also the -channel on it, making heals stronger and faster, than a (as Wbn shows, similar survivability) phy defense ring. This is why I use r9 ring and one physical defense ring, instead of 2 physical defense rings.

Aeliah

Eoria - Harshlands

Once again, the vit vs. mag debate is dumb and I'm not going to keep beating that dead horse. My stat build is not going to change at this point.

Also, I'm demon, not sage.

Sakubatou - Sanctuary

Aeliah - Dreamweaver wrote: »

If you absolutely, truly, cannot live without some extra hp, consider the following option. You have 150 points into vit. Take out 100 of them. Put 50 of them into strength. Put the other 50 into whatever you want (maybe magic? or else back into vit). Equip a light armor helm and +12 it. A +12 light armor helm has 1000 more hp than a similar, +12 arcane helm. Thus you get same hp (1000+500 from vit points) for a stat cost of 50 fewer points; essentially freeing up 50 stat points. I myself have a g16 light armor helm equipped, so I'm 50 stat points off an entirely pure build, but when you look at the tradeoff, 1000 hp/50 stat points is 20 hp/stat point, a truly excellent tradeoff, particularly when compared with the 10 hp/vitality that clerics normally get... see what I'm saying?
Aeliah

This was suggested in our other 938 page vit vs pure discussion. Its a great idea, and 50 strength will also go farther defensively than 150 vit, but its just not one of those commonly known pwi 'tricks". It also is somewhat contingent on having +11/+12 gear. For your average +7 refined cleric it doesn't work as well.

Frankly, if your not a forum surfer or don't understand your class or the game well enough to avoid the need for vit you probably wont come across this tip either. Its the people that need the vit in their build, not the cleric class. So I just stopped arguing it.

One thing that was funny in my faction discussion was a (TW/PvE) cleric was talking about being a vit build and people were trying to convince her that pure was better. She stated everyone she heals has bloodpaint anyways so she doesn't need more magic. So we began joking that vit cleric's are for healing people with bloodpaint that don't need heals