A guide to choosing cultivation path: Demon or Sage?

Bhavyy - Raging Tide

Too many problems with this.
Apparently others think they can do a better job.
Perhaps someone could link their guide.

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands

1) If you want to make a guide about demon and sage skills you should put all skills, not just the ones you want.

2) Write the demon and sage bonus of each skills.

3) Than write which one is the winner.

4) Keep the wifey comments thing outside.

Some parts are to long, when people want to see a guide about sage and demon skills they don't want to read paragraphs. I personally think you should try to do it again. (You can maybe check the other class guides for get a idea how it should be)

Bhavyy - Raging Tide

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands wrote: »

1) If you want to make a guide about demon and sage skills you should put all skills, not just the ones you want.

2) Write the demon and sage bonus of each skills.

3) Than write which one is the winner.

4) Keep the wifey comments thing outside.

Some parts are to long, when people want to see a guide about sage and demon skills they don't want to read paragraphs. I personally think you should try to do it again. (You can maybe check the other class guides for get a idea how it should be)

Didnt take long to edit - most skills were already there and all sage and demon bonuses were described. Cut out some of the excess text. All skills were given a winner already. Wifey comments removed cause i know they make you jelly Bella b:dirtyb:kissb:chuckle

Hows that now?

OmniX - Heavens Tear

You should retitle your thread to "Guide to choosing Demon Mystic" lol... According to YOU "Demon Wins" in most skills. In your "guide"...all but 1 or 2 sage is better...A guide doesnt lead someone into thinking something is better over the other when the bonus are based on personal preference. I could argue how youre wrong on many of these skills but i cant since its my preference. You state youre not biased but by simply adding how one wins over the other,.....it proves differently. If this was a guide to choosing a side you would state the pros and cons of each skill without adding demon wins or sage wins...who.are you to say which one is better? Like you stated and i do agree...its personal choice and your guide is based on your personal choice...

klys

There's already a thread for this.
But addressing your points - I disagree with many of them

BiTc-sage
culti-sage ( because it's used in pve and pvp)
BT -neutral (comparing apples and oranges)
AS- demon (barely better)
summons- demon
cragg- sage (3 sec sure thing- u only use this in pve, where u can easily control your chi use)
NV- sage (or demon if you dont care about chi- this is your main attack and u spam it, more than heals)
SM- demon (barely use this)
Gale- Neutral (70% slow is almost an immobilization, and it's a sure thing- this depends on playstyle)
thicket- Neutral (heavily leaning toward demon- cause even if ur not a chance person, the proc is nice)
CM- demon ( not used enough for lv 11 proc to matter)
verdant- sage
FP -demon
leech- sage (more antistun better than speed)
res- demon pvp, sage pve
wood mastery- Neutral (heavily leaning toward sage - constant dmg vs chance crit)
RGrowth- Neutral

Both paths have pros and cons- the individual needs to judge which skills they use most often, and how they use them.

Bhavyy - Raging Tide

klys wrote: »

leech- sage (3 more sec anti stun is a no brainer- holy path if u want speed)

i thought..
Sage lasts 9 seconds
Demon lasts 10 seconds.

http://www.ecatomb.net/skillpwi.php

Draw on the energy of your summon to enhance yourself.
Different summons give different effects. Cannot be
interrupted by Stun or Freeze and lasts for 6 Seconds.

Costs 1 Spark.

sage: Immune immobilizing effects for 3 extra seconds.
demon: Has a 50% chance to increase movement speed by 60%.
Lasts for 10 seconds.

is this incorrect?

klys

Nice catch, fixed it.

Bhavyy - Raging Tide

klys wrote: »

Nice catch, fixed it.

No problem - also didnt talk about wood mastery
Thanks for pointing that out, I'll add that later

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands

Bhavyy - Raging Tide wrote: »

Sage lasts 9 seconds
Demon lasts 10 seconds.

http://www.ecatomb.net/skillpwi.php

Please stop play mystic.

Sage give 3 sec more anti-stun.

Demon have 50% chance to give 60% speed for 10 sec, not the anti-stun....

Sage 9 sec anti-stun > Demon 6 sec anti-stun + 50% chance of 60% speed for 10 sec.

klys

oops, fixed againb:surrender

Bhavyy - Raging Tide

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands wrote: »

Please stop play mystic.

Sage give 3 sec more anti-stun.

Demon have 50% chance to give 60% speed for 10 sec, not the anti-stun....

Sage 9 sec anti-stun > Demon 6 sec anti-stun + 50% chance of 60% speed for 10 sec.

Dont have this skill - based it off ecatomb.
Checked it with someone else and you're correct sorry - no need to be rude, it was a simple misunderstanding.
Wording put me off i'll fix this later

Edit: Fixed

Ascholia - Dreamweaver

Bhavyy - Raging Tide wrote: »

Cragglord

Sage: Effect time increased by 3 seconds.
Demon: Has a 25% chance to reduce Spark cost by 1.

Sage: Buy 6.67 get 1 free

Demon: Buy 8 get 1 free.

Lets break it down by looking the skill order corresponding to maximum dps for craggy and how it all fits into 23 seconds

Skill

---

time taken to use

---

cool down
Erruption (x) = 1.2 6
Cometfall (y) = 2.5 10
Auto Attack (a) 1 0

Max DPS combo:

Sage: x+y+4a+y+5a+y+x+5a - You can summon about 7 cragglords and get 1 free but all that one is able to do is single target auto attack.
Demon: x+y+4a+y+5a+y+x+2a - you have to summon a cragglord 1 more time to get your free fully functional AOE cragglord.

Cragglord is an AOE skill - Demon is better because it simply does the best total AOE damage over longer periods of time

Do u regularly use your cragglord 8 times on a single boss? I don't use him at all in NW just pve and usually boss is dead after like the third time. In that case I'd rather it last a few seconds longer. So I thought it might like it better Sage but now maybe not? b:surrender

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands

Bhavyy - Raging Tide wrote: »

Dont have this skill - based it off ecatomb.
Checked it with someone else and you're correct sorry,
Wording put me off i'll fix this later

If you don't know correctly the skills than you should not make a guide, specially that you say some skills are better demon (like that one) while you didn't even know what it does...

I don't try to be mean or rude, but a guide is a important tool people use and you cannot afford to make any mistake on something as important as demon/sage skills.

Bhavyy - Raging Tide

Ascholia - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Do u regularly use your cragglord 8 times on a single boss? I don't use him at all in NW just pve and usually boss is dead after like the third time. In that case I'd rather it last a few seconds longer. So I thought it might like it better Sage but now maybe not? b:surrender

I was talking over long periods of time over many hundreds of summons throughout your PWI life as a demon/sage mystic.

@Bella - it was 1 skill. And i think you can see that it is poorly described. You corrected me - and i fixed it, thank you for that. Its also been less than a day. I think its safe to say that I havent made a huge number of level 89 mystics choose to be demon purely because of a tiny mistake in the description of 1 skill. While I do understand the importance of an accurate guide I dont think its fair for you to render the entire guide inaccurate because of 1 mistake. Can you find any more problems with my skill descriptions?

I think it's been pretty accurate other than that one little hiccup.
And yeah if you were trying not to be rude you didnt do so well with that.

YOU REALLY HURT MY FEELINGS. b:cryb:cryb:cryb:cry

Synta - Dreamweaver

It's an ok "guide" but uh, some issues:

Bhavyy - Raging Tide wrote: »

Culti skill
Master Li's Technique : Gives 50 chi
Mo Zun's Taunt: takes 50 chi

Neutral

I'd argue in favour of sage - you personally will notice the chi gain more, naturally, and it's also useful in pve.

Bhavyy - Raging Tide wrote: »

Absorb soul
Sage: Gain 10 extra Chi.
Demon: Has a 80% chance to interrupt target's channeling.

Not spammable so not efficient for chi gain. 80% chance to interrupt is a high rate.
It's also beneficial defensively AND offensively because it can interrupt an opponents offensive or defensive skill.
Demon is better.

The interrupt is barely ever useful, and the chi gain is high enough to be noticeable, I think. At worst it's neutral.

Bhavyy - Raging Tide wrote: »

Cragglord

Sage: Effect time increased by 3 seconds.
Demon: Has a 25% chance to reduce Spark cost by 1.

Cragglord is an AOE skill - Demon is better because it simply does the best total AOE damage over longer periods of time

This is my main point - demon cragglord doesn't work. You never save the chi. So uh, sage - no-brainer.

Bhavyy - Raging Tide wrote: »

Damage Skills

Natures Vengence
Sage: Has a 20% chance to recover 30 Chi upon hitting the target.
Demon: Adds additional 600 damage 100% of the time.

Demon is better At least 80% of the time and has other better ways of building chi for a demon.

It's a LOT of chi, I'd argue neutral.

Rest seems ok :P My mystic is demon, by the way xD
You did miss some skills though, such as mastery (someone mentioned), sparks, rapid growth, comforting mist...

Ascholia - Dreamweaver

Bhavyy - Raging Tide wrote: »

I was talking over long periods of time over many hundreds of summons throughout your PWI life as a demon/sage mystic.

But what about in like battle. When I'm actually using it there and then. And only there and then. I don't really care about the lifetime of craggs. Which is better?

Bhavyy - Raging Tide

Ascholia - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I don't really care about the lifetime of craggs. Which is better?

If you dont care then they're the same?...

I'll add missing skills later and comforting mist is there.

Bhavyy - Raging Tide

Synta - Dreamweaver wrote: »

The interrupt is barely ever useful, and the chi gain is high enough to be noticeable, I think. At worst it's neutral.

This is my main point - demon cragglord doesn't work. You never save the chi. So uh, sage - no-brainer.

It's a LOT of chi, I'd argue neutral.

I've used the interrupt to good effect. It just needs to be timed right with some sort of channeling buff especially on wizards.

Demon doesnt work?

Like i said - other ways of building chi e.g. break in the clouds.

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands

Bhavyy - Raging Tide wrote: »

I was talking over long periods of time over many hundreds of summons throughout your PWI life as a demon/sage mystic.

@Bella - it was 1 skill. And i think you can see that it is poorly described. You corrected me - and i fixed it, thank you for that. Its also been less than a day. I think its safe to say that I havent made a huge number of level 89 mystics choose to be demon purely because of a tiny mistake in the description of 1 skill. While I do understand the importance of an accurate guide I dont think its fair for you to render the entire guide inaccurate because of 1 mistake. Can you find any more problems with my skill descriptions?

I think it's been pretty accurate other than that one little hiccup.
And yeah if you were trying not to be rude you didnt do so well with that.

YOU REALLY HURT MY FEELINGS. b:cryb:cryb:cryb:cry

That skill was personally in my choice for go sage, so that one skill can be important for some people.

Let's say there's 7 skills I prefer sage, 6 demon and 3 neutral (I included mistress, salvation and devil as one skill since they have the same demon bonus), more sage than demon, so I have highest chance to go sage since more skills sage I prefer than demon, but let's say I read your guide with that one mistake about energy leech, that would now be 7 demon, 6 sage and 3 neutral, which will make me go demon, but than when I get that skill I realize it doesn't do what you said in the guide and realize that I took the culti with the less skills I like cause someone made a mistake on his guide.

So yea I think a sage/demon guide should have 0 mistake in the description of the skill.

I agree on each points Synta said, particularly the cragg one, I don't know if you are new on the forum, but I saw a LOT of demon mystic complained that it never work and that cragg always cost them 2 sparks. So sage is better than demon on that one.

If I see something else I'll let you know.

Bhavyy - Raging Tide

b:victory. Link a better guide please my one had too much wrong with it. People seem to just want skill descriptions and no opinions

Ascholia - Dreamweaver

I don't mean I don't care at all. But I mean which one is better in battle? Not if you average out across all the battles but if you constrain it to the typical battle as in the typical BH100. Say you only get to summon it two times or three times. Which one wins?

tweakz

If only these sage vs demon threads would be closed. It's not like people can't find this stuff themselves on http://ecatomb.net/