Best seeker possible

Sephroid - Archosaur

IHaxJoo - Raging Tide wrote: »

the T3 tome has vit+45 str +45 mag+45 dex+45 along with channeling, crit and speed boost lol

idk whats wrong, but i cant find it =(

IHaxJoo - Raging Tide

Sephroid - Archosaur wrote: »

idk whats wrong, but i cant find it =(

Its prob not on there yet because it came with the recent expansion with Nation wars. but u can just edit the tome to ur liking if u want

Sephroid - Archosaur

IHaxJoo - Raging Tide wrote: »

Its prob not on there yet because it came with the recent expansion with Nation wars. but u can just edit the tome to ur liking if u want

cool cool, thank you sir =D

Maelael - Heavens Tear

Hexalot - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Barb's invoke = 20 seconds of near invulnerability. Solid shield adds another 12 seconds of damage reduction with good strength genie. Your HF plus whatever damage you can cook up isn't going to even tickle the Barb during that time. You're basically stuck with having to wait out his buffs before you can do any noticeable damage while trying to keep him locked down till his def skills run out..... unless you plan to whip out a purge pole and try your luck.

Edged Blur on the other hand bypasses both Invoke & solid shield (and defense charms) while doing pure magic (metal) damage.

You say your Barb has 13.5K magic defenses right ?

Ion spike's 50% debuff will knock the metal component down to a smidgen under 10K. That's just in the ball park needed for me to deliver a world of hurt. Don't forget one of the big changes the recent expansion gave is that EB is now multiplied by my attack levels... and and my attack levels cannot be neutralized by my opponent's defense levels. That last part is very important. So basically when I launch EB on someone, the damage is now boosted by 120% (attack lvls) and then there is a double my crit rate chance of damage being further increased by one and a half times... all the while being metal debuffed by ion spike. The only time my EB really "tickles" is when cast on AA classes with 20K+ magic defense.

Having said all of that... 42K HP (b:shocked) is still a chunk of health to eat through and it's unlikely I would be able to kill your Barb using EB alone short of maybe sparking and hoping for the x 1.5 non crit damage to proc. Fortunately EB is "cast and forget" meaning I can trigger it and still use other attacks simultaneously so that and a lucky zerk/crit and who knows ? I could be in with a shot.

Rest Ill approach tomorrow or monday, but I can make a few points:

1. The skills that ignore defense skills and def levels also ignore your attack levels. If Edged Blur is an exception, I def wanna test this. (And argue for Reckless Suck to have the same rule)

2. As a BM, you dont attack the barb while hes invoked other than for chi. Its not like hes going far, if anywhere at all with CC skills. Last time I was invoked and slowed I was pretty much 1m/s. If its a good Barb theyre invoking through charm CD anyways, so you can mark that well. Keep in mind were talking heavy barbs like mine, not the 20-30k **** def level builds.

And yea, Im hitting non-JoSD n3/r9 barbs for 10-25k crit/zerk/zerkcrits with axe spam skills easily depending on debuffs (regulars about 5-10k ish), and thats once a second on average. But Im also full R9rr. If I add a 2 spark or something else (Mire, whatever) in there on top of HF they go down. Just fists (provided its safe enough for that) is way easier. I may put mire back on my PvP genie again now that Im thinking about it again.

3. Im also not convinced its full metal damage, however if it is - wow. Again, test worthy.

4. Id also assume if it is as good as youre describing, there would be more people using it to kill Catabarbs. Im wondering what were missing - either of us, cause if it is gonna pump out 15-20k every three seconds thats huge in the Catakilling department and works nicely with my not-so-seekret BM strategy to F with catabarbs.

5. 40k is easier to reach than you think with G16 gear at +11. I swear someone had a combo that hit 40k at +10, but I don't remember cause I think I puked at the lack of def levels and def stats. Dunno I made him pre-NW, and I always wanted a catabarb and had the money at the time (Im broke from Chicken stones right now...)

6. Without the lockdown skills, if I got hit by that heavy of an edged blur....Id just move and prolly ToP or Pot to support the charm refresh. Can ToP/SS stunlocked, but I cant move or cast other ****/pot stunlocked, so thats still more of a worry.

Ugh I should go to bed and respond to this another time...

Hexalot - Dreamweaver

Maelael - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Rest Ill approach tomorrow or monday, but I can make a few points:

1. The skills that ignore defense skills and def levels also ignore your attack levels. If Edged Blur is an exception, I def wanna test this. (And argue for Reckless Suck to have the same rule)

2. As a BM, you dont attack the barb while hes invoked other than for chi. Its not like hes going far, if anywhere at all with CC skills. Last time I was invoked and slowed I was pretty much 1m/s. If its a good Barb theyre invoking through charm CD anyways, so you can mark that well. Keep in mind were talking heavy barbs like mine, not the 20-30k **** def level builds.

And yea, Im hitting non-JoSD n3/r9 barbs for 10-25k crit/zerk/zerkcrits with axe spam skills easily depending on debuffs (regulars about 5-10k ish), and thats once a second on average. But Im also full R9rr. If I add a 2 spark or something else (Mire, whatever) in there on top of HF they go down. Just fists (provided its safe enough for that) is way easier. I may put mire back on my PvP genie again now that Im thinking about it again.

3. Im also not convinced its full metal damage, however if it is - wow. Again, test worthy.

4. Id also assume if it is as good as youre describing, there would be more people using it to kill Catabarbs. Im wondering what were missing - either of us, cause if it is gonna pump out 15-20k every three seconds thats huge in the Catakilling department and works nicely with my not-so-seekret BM strategy to F with catabarbs.

5. 40k is easier to reach than you think with G16 gear at +11. I swear someone had a combo that hit 40k at +10, but I don't remember cause I think I puked at the lack of def levels and def stats. Dunno I made him pre-NW, and I always wanted a catabarb and had the money at the time (Im broke from Chicken stones right now...)

6. Without the lockdown skills, if I got hit by that heavy of an edged blur....Id just move and prolly ToP or Pot to support the charm refresh. Can ToP/SS stunlocked, but I cant move or cast other ****/pot stunlocked, so thats still more of a worry.

Ugh I should go to bed and respond to this another time...

I'll just address points 1, 3 & 4.


1. I tested it myself after the latest patch and was actually the first one that broke the news on EB now incorporating attack levels.

http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?p=18253611

In addition to the tests with my alt in the link above, I also switched an O'malleys in and out numerous times on my alt while using EB on her. Damage received from EB was unchanged, indicating it does continue to ignore Def lvls.

Incidentally, I first got the idea to test EB for any new changes from reading Psychic sub forum where they were talking about the changes to their own damage over time skill Telekinesis. It was they who first noticed the changes to damage from the skill with attack lvls so BMs should probably try similar tests on reckless rush to see if it too now incorporates attack levels too. b:victory

3. Personally I think EB has one of the most misleading skill description of all skills in that... while the description does say physical and metal damage... elemental immune mobs ignore it's damage... which of course wouldn't happen if there was a physical damage component to the skill's attack.

A quick and dirty test for anyone would be to try EB on one of the Snowmen in Arch, which are all elemental immune. They totally resist EB the same way they do all pure magic attacks. If EB's DoT damage was part physical then it would definitely have affected ele immune mobs. I know this because when I tried my Archangel Seeker summons DoT skill (which also does half phys & half mag damage) on the same snow men, it kills them no problem.

So it seems that... despite the misleading description... EB's damage is pure metal and is merely calculated based on Seeker's physical attack... the same as all our other metal skills.

4. The main reason 99% of Seekers (including myself) have never tried triple sparking with EB on cata barbs or anyone else is because of chronic chi shortage being a ***** for most Seekers out there. b:shutup

As you know we have no real chi gaining skills and are constantly spamming things like Ion spike (our main metal nuke) which uses one spark as well as void step which also uses a spark, and so on. It's extremely rare for me to have a full 3 sparks at any point in time to be honest. And then of course when I do find myself with full sparks for a change, I'm gonna think real hard about blowing all that PLUS put my genie in cool down (cloud erupt) just for one skill. It simply isn't an efficient use of resources... no matter how damaging a skill may turn out to be.

The second main reason (and I tested it myself after posting here yesterday)... is that I've now found out that sparking and then using EB gives no substantial damage increase to the skill. b:infuriated

Perhaps it's an intentional nerf... perhaps it's because EB's overall attack is calculated on base damage plus + additional xxx damage only but disregards weapon attack. Who knows ?

But with the alt I tested it on, sage spark > cloud erupt > EB gave only like a 1.5K increase in damage. Go figure. Anyway that obviously means that 15-20K damage per tick would not be realistic (and you could argue... quite broken if achievable since it bypasses everything and can't be interrupted) unless you're maybe R9rr +12 Seeker with 200 attack lvls or something. b:surrender

I will say however that it's still my number one skill when I see Barbs invoke then jump into the pit to dig the flag. Half the time they can't understand why their HP is dropping suddenly despite invoke and you could almost see the panic on their face lol. Flag carrying Barbs are also a favorite target of mine with EB... obviously again due to the skill bypassing so many immune and dam reducing skills (and yes it does bypass charms like most other DoT skills). It's also a virtual death sentence for those aps BMs and Sins who try to gank me in NWS. Once triggered, it can't be interrupted from stuns, seals, etc and I can still move around during the duration of the skill. They just gank... and then within one tick or two... die.

So EB is definitely not a nuke... as I first thought... but it's still a far more effective skill in PK for the 2 sparks it costs than say... vortex. b:avoid

Edit... talk about running off topic lol... thread officially derailed.

IHaxJoo - Raging Tide

To add to what Hexalot said, I can confirm that EB is indeed more powerful after the recent update. However, ya 3 spark + edged blur is the same as edged blur with no spark. I was dealing the same amount of damage to mobs with or without spark.

Also, i use edged blur on barbs in TW EVERYTIME i see em. Maybe most seekers still dont know about its increased capability but my edged blur to kill barbs while they're invoking really helps a lot along with my sac assault + QPQ on them.

Another thing is that i just dont see many seekers using their edged blur in NW or TW. It helps take those R9rrr people down quite easily.

Seirina - Dreamweaver

I think this would be awesome and someone probably has done it already. (minus the helm)

Raphxelion - Raging Tide

not bad but here is my build http://pwcalc.com/729c30ab5d998158# and why i believe its the best seeker build.

I added the Tier 2 Nirvana cape and helmet because they give 2% crit, and +5 attack levels and an extra 400 magic resistance

I made the seeker full Vit because as a heavy armor class our weakness are magic attacks. Why buy those pesky Primeval Stone(+10vit) when we can cover this through our stats and Tome. This will give us a lot more Magic Resistance (close to a r9 +12 magic dd) more hp, and some physical defense(we already have a lot of physical defense this is an extra bonus)

Next i got rid of the rank 9 rings and gave us two g16 magic attack rings. The reason for this is because this two rings give magic resistance when refined, taking care of our weakness as heavy armor class.


DoT (1 attack level) I believe is the best choice to go because our major defense problem is pretty much covered with the large magic resistance pool, now its time to cover our offense.
As seekers we have an amazing defense buff, with proper magic resistance i believe this is enough to match JosD defense. My build i added Full DoT on gear. A full JoSD seeker has 141 defense level with sage buff and everything. My build I have Attack Level of 170, this will make 141 defense level look like **** unless there is another concept to defense levels I'm not getting? With Sacrificial Slash, my Attack Level would be around 200.

With all this attack Level, Edge blur would be a nightmare ( i believe edge blur negates defense level and damage is greatly increased by attack level)

Only build i can see more OP than this would be a full Dex seeker with 49% Crit Rate http://pwcalc.com/925c6d7b1ec60710 lol with pet debuff (24% crit increase based on soulforce) that would be 73% crit rate on this seeker...imagine criting that often with all that DoT, catas would get charm ***** or die fast lol plus the 168 attack level o.o

Akan - Momaganon

Have you actually tried fighting anything outside of duels and 1v1 pk with a DoT build? Initial high spike damage is only great when you control the situation.

Defenses are what saves a seeker in most pvp situations where you have more than 1 person trying to stun and kill you. The DoT/dex/crit build sounds more like the play style of sins but without stealth.

Guess it all depends on what role you take on the battlefield. I prefer being the frontline tank that fights multiple enemies and still is seen as a threat.

HerbalLife - Archosaur

Akan - Momaganon wrote: »

Have you actually tried fighting anything outside of duels and 1v1 pk with a DoT build? Initial high spike damage is only great when you control the situation.

Defenses are what saves a seeker in most pvp situations where you have more than 1 person trying to stun and kill you. The DoT/dex/crit build sounds more like the play style of sins but without stealth.

Guess it all depends on what role you take on the battlefield. I prefer being the frontline tank that fights multiple enemies and still is seen as a threat.

trust this guy words~ he PK king(seeker) haha

KING_OF_RT - Raging Tide

HerbalLife - Archosaur wrote: »

trust this guy words~ he PK king(seeker) haha

Let's see. The earthguards(seeker, mystic) were introduced long long before the server he's in was released. Others in other servers have been playing seekers for longer than he has.
Your point is invalid.

I am not saying he might not know what he's doing. He might be best at his class. He might excel at his class but that doesn't mean only his way of playing is out there.

Now, having played seeker since the first day after they were released, I have been pking on a seeker for a very long time. At first, I was all about strength strength strength. And then later, I changed to pure dex for more crit because i realized its next to impossible to kill other rank 9s if you weren't critting enough.

To go back to Aka's reply, I do believe both builds have their pros and cons. JOSDs make up for a way better tank and frontline seekers in TW and NWs. That might be your style of playing a seeker. HOWEVER, there are seekers out there who believe in the pure DOT build along with crit build as well because they want to excel at range and kiting and killing other people from afar. So, both builds are perfectly viable depending on the kind of person you are.

There are situations however, where you might have to go pure range(against melees) or pure melee(against range) or combination of both. Either way, all i am saying is DOT Build combined with crit build works very well in TWs, 1 v 1 and NWs for those who like to play their seeker more as a range. We are already given 40 free defense levels from our buff(if we're sage) so we are already high on our defenses. The one thing we do lack however is our base weapon damage. And to kill others very fast, you need to be DOT sharded because at rank 9 t3, it's possible for these seekers to go up to 160 attack level and combined with our sac assault + quid pro quo and frenzy, we can get up to 200 attack lvl. And throw in around 34% crit rate or even 40% if you're pure dex build. I dont see how this build cant be viable in group pk, because from what i can see, these kinda seekers can take out their enemies rather quickly.

Raphxelion - Raging Tide

Akan - Momaganon wrote: »

Have you actually tried fighting anything outside of duels and 1v1 pk with a DoT build? Initial high spike damage is only great when you control the situation.

Defenses are what saves a seeker in most pvp situations where you have more than 1 person trying to stun and kill you. The DoT/dex/crit build sounds more like the play style of sins but without stealth.

Guess it all depends on what role you take on the battlefield. I prefer being the frontline tank that fights multiple enemies and still is seen as a threat.

true but you would have alot of defense and hp from full vit stats

IHaxJoo - Raging Tide

Raphxelion - Raging Tide wrote: »

true but you would have alot of defense and hp from full vit stats

With the build you described, yes you'll have lots of resistances both physical and magical and a high hp pool.
But, the defense levels work differently than resistances though. So, even if you have, say 5000 magical resistance and 10000 physical resistance, with 100 defense level, you're essentially equivalently getting close to 10000 magical resistance and 20000 physical resistance in total. In addition, it also helps in calculating the total amount of damage you take from the opponent with lots of attack level. With your opponent's 100 attack level, he cant do a lotta damage to you because your defense level nullifies his attack level.

In comparison however, if you have 10000 magical resistance and 20000 physical resistance to begin with because of all those vit +10 stones with 0 defense level(all hypothetical), it really doesn't matter how much hp you have. Because if your opponent has 100 attack level(which rank 9 already has), you'll get hit for a lot more than if you had JOSDs sharded on your gear. So, in turn, its just a matter of how hard your opponent hits you that decides how long you can survive in the battle.

Another build is pure DOTs with crit build. This build has to sacrifice a lotta defense, but in turn, you're also getting a huge boost on your base damage in pvp. With rank 9 t1, we can already have 66 total defense level(which other classes have to shard every gear with JOSDs to reach that kinda defense level), so if you go pure DOT with crit build, you're essentially going to do a lotta damage and be a powerful force in TW and NWs alike because you can take out your enemies fast, while also lasting longer because of our natural high defenses and HA to begin with. So, with 34% crit and DOT build with rank 9 tier 3, you'll almost always get either crit or zerk or if lucky, zerk crit a lot more than other builds out there.

In the end, i guess it all depends on how you wanna play your character. If you wanna be a pure tank and be on the front line, go JOSDs. If you wanna have tons of hp, go Vit +10.
And if you want to take out your enemies rather quickly and play safe, go DOTs. We are jack of all traits so it all comes down to us how we wanna play our seekers. As for me, i plan to go pure DOT crit build when i get rank 9 t3.

Akan - Momaganon

DoT or JOSD is one thing, more offense vs more defense and depends a lot on how you play.

I am not sure if dex build for crit is such a good idea. Even if you get more crits, the damage will be lower each crit since you loose a lot of str.

A dex build gives lower average damage over time and lower max damage / spike damage. You need something like 1600 str for 20 dex to give more average damage than spending the points in str. (quick calculation done i my head based on what I remember, so it might be wrong).

I have 30% crit with full str build and prefer having high spike damage over critting more often.

Hexalot - Dreamweaver

Akan - Momaganon wrote: »

DoT or JOSD is one thing, more offense vs more defense and depends a lot on how you play.

I am not sure if dex build for crit is such a good idea. Even if you get more crits, the damage will be lower each crit since you loose a lot of str.

A dex build gives lower average damage over time and lower max damage / spike damage. You need something like 1600 str for 20 dex to give more average damage than spending the points in str. (quick calculation done i my head based on what I remember, so it might be wrong).

I have 30% crit with full str build and prefer having high spike damage over critting more often.

The idea behind high crit dex builds is that it gives you a higher chance to "chain your crits" when attacking opponents. That can be fairly important when it comes to blasting past the charms of high HP and/or high Defense lvl opponents.

Anyway... this endless debate between the two play style builds (dex vs strength) is fast coming to an end due to the over abundance of crit add-ons from various gear out there.

For instance... the R9rr samsara sword can roll up to 6 crit %, while the new Emperor's tome from the NW forges has 45 dex/str/vit/mag plus 3 additional crit for 5 extra crit in all. Thus even pure strength build (160 dex... rest into strength) Seekers can now easily exceed 30% crit... assuming their pockets are deep enough. b:chuckle

IHaxJoo - Raging Tide

Hex is right.

I guess from now on, we gotta start talking about CRIT build instead of a DEX build cuz we no longer have to spend gazillions of points into our dex to get that extra crit xD all hail to rank 9 t3 + new tome

elsatitania

DoT,JoSd,vits, it's all depand on how you play , and mainly on how much you're ready to spend , but , remember that you're sharding your end-game gear
DoT are like akan said , sins without stealth , you take a lot of risk , and you can't be in the frontline with a DoT build , your objectif will like "ion spike , gemimi slash " then go back , since those R9r3 +12 are a pain in the *** , i've seen some wiz doing like 35k-40k on a R9 vits barb cube neck magic +10 , they hit realy hard and it's not easy to take them down , and i can understand your opinion , of course as a seeker it has no sence to be tanky while you can't take down the enemie , so probably a DoT seeker will need a lot of those magic charme def and high refined gear
Vits stone seeker will have ton of hp and base deffence , since each vit give like 45 magic/physical res and 150 it's a pretty good idea if you can't afford the josd
Full JosD seeker are for my personal opinion the best one , moreover on high refined gear , and the big advantages on josd , is that because it work with sacrificial slash , a seeker with 120 def lvl can reduce the enemy def lvl by 60 and get up like 24 att lvl from that if my math is good , on other classe , like a bm or archer , josd are still better but there isn't a lot of difference between them and vits , but on a seeker , it's realy usefull more than vit
So basicly i think that josd are way better than any other shard for a seeker , if you have money and you just want to make the best seeker build go for josd +12 your weapon first and then try to be full +10 on the rest of the gear

Raphxelion - Raging Tide

mini zombie? yea it really all depends on play style im def gonna experiment with the full dot dex build end game, if i dont like it ill experiment with the vit, if i dont like it just go strength dot lol

Daruvial - Sanctuary

omg what a boring thread and like 99% of the pw calc's ive seen have gear that is unattainable. so ill just make a quick calc of what the best possible build would be.. since the nw upgrades arent available in the calc just assume they would be upgraded to the max.

http://pwcalc.com/9d9966923acb5339

now the r9 upgraded ring should be giving phys def and magic def but its not.. also none of the r9 3rd cast armor has stats other then set bonus so it is a bit off but that would be the best you can do.

Raphxelion - Raging Tide

Daruvial - Sanctuary wrote: »

omg what a boring thread and like 99% of the pw calc's ive seen have gear that is unattainable. so ill just make a quick calc of what the best possible build would be.. since the nw upgrades arent available in the calc just assume they would be upgraded to the max.

http://pwcalc.com/9d9966923acb5339

now the r9 upgraded ring should be giving phys def and magic def but its not.. also none of the r9 3rd cast armor has stats other then set bonus so it is a bit off but that would be the best you can do.

lol you complaining that 99% of the calc have unattainable gear which is untrue...yours as the most unattainable gear o.o 3 NW upgrade gear...that is 7500supply tokens the average person won't get that

Arctix - Dreamweaver

Raphxelion - Raging Tide wrote: »

lol you complaining that 99% of the calc have unattainable gear which is untrue...yours as the most unattainable gear o.o 3 NW upgrade gear...that is 7500supply tokens the average person won't get that

Which part of "BEST" n "POSSIBLE" did u not find in that calc?

Daruvial - Sanctuary

i wasnt complaining i was just stating that the calc does not include some of the gear which is available ingame.. and yes it is attainable.

when i said the gear in the other calc's in this thread is unattainable i mean it does not exist in our version of pwi

Raphxelion - Raging Tide

Daruvial - Sanctuary wrote: »

i wasnt complaining i was just stating that the calc does not include some of the gear which is available ingame.. and yes it is attainable.

when i said the gear in the other calc's in this thread is unattainable i mean it does not exist in our version of pwi

haha sorry i was confused thought you meant something else...but i think your build would be better if you used nirvana t2 instead of nirvana t3, i personally like the 2% crit, more magic defense, and more attack level than the hp the t3 offers but i guess its personal preference. I think we already concluded that Dex 45% crit seeker build would be the Death of all lol

Nature_God - Sanctuary

I would sell my 1000 souls for having that kind of Seeker build and gears b:cry

bolocactu

Nature_God - Sanctuary wrote: »

I would sell my 1000 souls for having that kind of Seeker build and gears b:cry

Epic Necro GTFO.f:cool

Suikyo - Raging Tide

necro, necro, just, necro!!!

aftermath86

**(*)Cost of Glory > Samsara... just saying, dunno if anyone posted that yet

burningsweetfire

aftermath86 wrote: »

**(*)Cost of Glory > Samsara... just saying, dunno if anyone posted that yet

Cost of Glory has Gloom and Samsara has God of Frenzy.
It's no debate that Samsara is better than Cost of Glory with the ability to double their damage compare to increasing your damage.

Warsoul will rival with r9r2 but can't be better because of God of Frenzy will enable seekers to literally zerk crit nuke any class which is always fatal. It also makes other classes fear to fight seekers, because there is always a chance that they can one shot them.

In terms of attack levels, Samsara and Cost of Glory have the same. But God of Frenzy and more crit rate is a deal breaker.

HerbalLife - Archosaur

Magic seeker~ so sososososososo OP