More BM skill changes

CapnK - Sanctuary

Bad Google translation incoming:

"Dragon / Tiger Leap: fairy magic skills, cancel chance to evade negative status or injury of the additional effects, each released directly by the unfavorable state to display their skills.
True Dragon / Tiger Leap: Teleport to 18 meters away, and does not consume vitality.
Mad Dragon / Tiger Leap: Teleport to 20 meters away.
Meteor rush Month (enhanced): knockback on players.
3. Kuanglong force (enhanced): 30 seconds crit rate increase of 25%, 20% increase in storm damage, the attack is no longer reduced to display their "immersed", "blast thorn", "Tappi hit", "split fist "or" off the air ", there is a 50% chance spike goal of less than 30% of the blood volume the (elite strange, BOSS invalid), spike 200% increase in mobile speed (mobile maximum increased to 15 m / sec) and the immune mobile limit state, for three seconds, cooldown increased to 8 minutes. "

My interpretation of this:

Tiger Leaps will have Sage/Demon version added, Sage goes 18m and costs no chi, Demon goes 20 meters.

Meteor Rush can now knockback players. I kind of expected this since Mystic knockback works and Reel In exists.

I'm assuming the last one is talking about Dragon Bane. Looks like it also increases Rage damage, doesn't halve your attack like before, something to do with player hp? (that doesn't work on boss mobs), gives you triple speed + immune to debuffs for three seconds, all at the cost of increasing its cooldown from five minutes to eight minutes.

Supposedly these changes hit China January 16th so maybe we'll get better information then.

Saethos - Raging Tide

I saw this earlier too. Really looking forward to it!

Jaabg - Sanctuary

I made a post hoping to get a cool down reduction on dragon bane b:cry. Maybe i should post that hf damage should be decreased to 20%, and they will make it 15 second hf with 500% damage b:victory.

Telarith - Sanctuary

Ooh, just remembered a skill update I want. Change the leap skills so they work immediately when they should, and not require you moving to reinitialize them.

Noticed in NW if you got stunned/frozen, even after the effects ending you could not use your leaps to move away at all. Died twice because of this, before finding you had to physically move after the debuffs ending, even if it was just twitching, to make them then take effect.

Dunno if it was just in air, but it's kinda BS for our favorite getaway skills to be useless immediately when we need them. Especially since there is absolutely no reason they shouldn't immediately work.

Sakubatou - Sanctuary

Telarith - Sanctuary wrote: »

Ooh, just remembered a skill update I want. Change the leap skills so they work immediately when they should, and not require you moving to reinitialize them.

Noticed in NW if you got stunned/frozen, even after the effects ending you could not use your leaps to move away at all. Died twice because of this, before finding you had to physically move after the debuffs ending, even if it was just twitching, to make them then take effect.

Dunno if it was just in air, but it's kinda BS for our favorite getaway skills to be useless immediately when we need them. Especially since there is absolutely no reason they shouldn't immediately work.

I full agree with this. Complained about it a couple of years ago. It's caused alot of awkward leaps where I pressed 'w' and my leap hotkey because I had to move to leap, but because of the camera angle the 'w' turned me more than I meant to.

The other thing that drives me nuts about leap is if we aren't on even ground you leap forward then take 2-3 seconds to fall the imaginary 6 inches to the ground, so the leap "at max speed" really actually lost you time.

Telarith - Sanctuary

Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »

I full agree with this. Complained about it a couple of years ago. It's caused alot of awkward leaps where I pressed 'w' and my leap hotkey because I had to move to leap, but because of the camera angle the 'w' turned me more than I meant to.

The other thing that drives me nuts about leap is if we aren't on even ground you leap forward then take 2-3 seconds to fall the imaginary 6 inches to the ground, so the leap "at max speed" really actually lost you time.

I'd love if they removed the after-cast animation of leap, so we could leap after-cast stun people with it. But they won't do it, because if you think about it, it would be way to over-powered. Most people don't apoth/genie skill until you are close enough, or they see your animation. If that hurdle was removed, it would in general make it way to easy to begin a stun lock on any stationary target.

So the after effect of leap needs to remain, if only to prevent being able to stunlock from a much further distance than people are already used to. So in that regard, I can understand. Didn't stop me from tryng for an hour straight to find a sequence that would allow me to do so, however. Never happened though.

Sakubatou - Sanctuary

Telarith - Sanctuary wrote: »

I'd love if they removed the after-cast animation of leap, so we could leap after-cast stun people with it. But they won't do it, because if you think about it, it would be way to over-powered. Most people don't apoth/genie skill until you are close enough, or they see your animation. If that hurdle was removed, it would in general make it way to easy to begin a stun lock on any stationary target.

So the after effect of leap needs to remain, if only to prevent being able to stunlock from a much further distance than people are already used to. So in that regard, I can understand. Didn't stop me from tryng for an hour straight to find a sequence that would allow me to do so, however. Never happened though.

This would be equal to Holy Path-> stun.

Doesn't sound unreasonable. And you act as if pwi has never done anything to create "way over-powered" skill combo. Archer stealth. Sins stealth +double spark or + Headhunt, a 6 second skill. Archer BV with a 2minutes cd, 1 spark cost, 18% hp debuff and they raised the curse to 50% for 30 seconds, +damage, 100% accurate. Blade Affinity getting a reduced cooldown + Gemini Slash, a ranged skill for 450% damage + 7500 damage, can be combined with Soul Sever for an additional 7950 magic damage, all applied after a 10 def level debuff and a 10 attack level debuff (hardest I've been hit in tw was 23k by this combo). Cleric's Seal of the God.... There are a dozen "too overpowered" skills.

I thought I remembered a time when leaps didn't need motion to be activated. I think it was something they added (screwed up) later. And I bet PWI would even be fine removing the after cast animation and falling caused by leap but I bet they can't figure out how to program it out.

Telarith - Sanctuary

Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »

This would be equal to Holy Path-> stun.

Doesn't sound unreasonable. And you act as if pwi has never done anything to create "way over-powered" skill combo. Archer stealth. Sins stealth +double spark or + Headhunt, a 6 second skill. Archer BV with a 2minutes cd, 1 spark cost, 18% hp debuff and they raised the curse to 50% for 30 seconds, +damage, 100% accurate. Blade Affinity getting a reduced cooldown + Gemini Slash, a ranged skill for 450% damage + 7500 damage, can be combined with Soul Sever for an additional 7950 magic damage, all applied after a 10 def level debuff and a 10 attack level debuff (hardest I've been hit in tw was 23k by this combo). Cleric's Seal of the God.... There are a dozen "too overpowered" skills.

I thought I remembered a time when leaps didn't need motion to be activated. I think it was something they added (screwed up) later. And I bet PWI would even be fine removing the after cast animation and falling caused by leap but I bet they can't figure out how to program it out.

If they did, do you know how much bishing we would have to listen to from the other classes? Never mind their max of 3 APS spiel (which most 5 APS BMs have anyways when in PvP), which is ridiculous as we do 2k dmg per second as they 1 shot us with 16K crits; imagine their gripes when they aren't adequately informed of when we are going to stun them.

Though to be fair, each individual skill has its own max of cast removal from after-cast canceling based off the next skill anyways. So even if they removed Leaps animation, the benefit might not be as great depending how it interacts with all the other BM skills and weapon swaps. Which was one of the fun things about mastering a BM back in the day.

They likely aren't able to code it, for the same reason sins can't instantly attack after a port. The displacement algorhythm needs a bit to take effect for range calculation to be used. That and the random nature of animation reduction makes it seem they made animations based off what looks pretty, instead of how to maximize damage potential of a character class.

The leap after-cast test was done back in either late 2009, or early 2010; so it's been quite a while that it has been in effect. Before that no one checked on any of the american servers, so unless someone from -MY or older has anything different, pretty sure the animation drop has been around the whole time. For motion, dunno. Most of my PvP killing was done on my cleric. BM has only been TW, NW, or cube since they came around in lvl to pk around 2009.

Hattori_ - Archosaur

Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »

I full agree with this. Complained about it a couple of years ago. It's caused alot of awkward leaps where I pressed 'w' and my leap hotkey because I had to move to leap, but because of the camera angle the 'w' turned me more than I meant to.

The other thing that drives me nuts about leap is if we aren't on even ground you leap forward then take 2-3 seconds to fall the imaginary 6 inches to the ground, so the leap "at max speed" really actually lost you time.

+10000000 b:victory

Sakubatou - Sanctuary

Telarith - Sanctuary wrote: »

The leap after-cast test was done back in either late 2009, or early 2010; so it's been quite a while that it has been in effect. Before that no one checked on any of the american servers, so unless someone from -MY or older has anything different, pretty sure the animation drop has been around the whole time. For motion, dunno. Most of my PvP killing was done on my cleric. BM has only been TW, NW, or cube since they came around in lvl to pk around 2009.

No, I'm saying the need to move before leaping was added around early 2010.

I think my Bm was around level 80-90 then, starting to actually get refines, life, hp,... and starting to get more interested in pvp. With the introduction of sins pvp took a huge bump because they were "the pvp class." But back then all sins new how to do was triple spark in stealth, inner harmony, come out of stealth with Headhunt->profit. If you could survive the stun length then you could leap out and usually recover and win but it was separating yourself from a triple sparked sin that would be key. You also needed to nail the little bass turds down before they could shadow escape so stun locking became super important.

So BMs began working on their stun locks even more. This meant learning to leap back out of other BM stunlocks, too. Sometime between practicing leaping out of BM stunlocks and leaping out of the stealth+trip spark+stun sins did I noticed that I now had to move before I could leap. I'd sit there and spam my 'instant' leap and see a stun on me wear off but I wouldn't leap before the next one.

Jaabg - Sanctuary

Capn, apparently that is the suggestion forum, so may not get those skills b:chuckle.

Maelael - Heavens Tear

Jaabg - Sanctuary wrote: »

Capn, apparently that is the suggestion forum, so may not get those skills b:chuckle.

Damn it. I really want pushback on players. That would be core.

Sakubatou - Sanctuary

Maelael - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Damn it. I really want pushback on players. That would be core.

As much as I want it for my BM I... really don't want other players getting it also. Its a very annoying skill to fight against. 1v1 its not so bad because they knockback and usually get 1 more hit before you get back inside into melee range but in group pk its a pain because the 2-3 seconds you're being knockbacked and the 2-3 seconds you're taking to get back to them you are being eaten alive by tons of other ranged players.

In other words, as much as I'd like the skill on my BM I'd give up having it myself if it means the 7 ranged classes didn't get it.

I can see its uses, similar to pve. Knockback to interupt them, then leap and stun before they can recover. You use the knockback as an interupt and to buy cooldown time for your stuns. Or if a mystic knocks you back you can immediately leap forward. But if everyone gets that skill pk will become BM pinball.

CapnK - Sanctuary

Ah well. Disregard then. b:bye

Magnanimous_ - Heavens Tear

I can already imagine 2 teams of BM playing knock-back football using a fluffy as a ball b:shocked

Jaabg - Sanctuary

Magnanimous_ - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I can already imagine 2 teams of BM playing knock-back football using a fluffy as a ball b:shocked

This made me laugh, imagine doing that to the flag carrier b:laugh.

Maelael - Heavens Tear

Magnanimous_ - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I can already imagine 2 teams of BM playing knock-back football using a fluffy as a ball b:shocked

Well ideally you could get someone to lose the cata - which would be the main broken-ness.

But, mystics can already do this, I dunno why it would be a big deal to let BMs have it, even at half range.

PlagueEphlik - Harshlands

am i the only one that would be glad to not have it as a knockback. I use meteor rush as a stun pretty often and having it knockback would mess that up so i would rather they put the knockback on atmos strike. Only difference would be that atmos isnt AOE

Maelael - Heavens Tear

PlagueEphlik - Harshlands wrote: »

am i the only one that would be glad to not have it as a knockback. I use meteor rush as a stun pretty often and having it knockback would mess that up so i would rather they put the knockback on atmos strike. Only difference would be that atmos isnt AOE

I think youre also the only one using it for a stun. Im sure theres more weirdoes, but Im being snarky. Bad damage with 1/3 hits stunning is severely lame.

Id take Atmos as a consolation prize tho.

Jaabg - Sanctuary

PlagueEphlik - Harshlands wrote: »

am i the only one that would be glad to not have it as a knockback. I use meteor rush as a stun pretty often and having it knockback would mess that up so i would rather they put the knockback on atmos strike. Only difference would be that atmos isnt AOE

I did not know that, had to look it up, thanks b:pleased. I tend to lag in NW, TW, weapon switching with 3~4 weapons = not a good idea. I would rather use aeolian blade skill and hope it works with my axes, fists, stun with my axes, fist, and use axe for drake base, use axe, fist for smack. Depends on the opponent and how many i fight. But if pole pushback stuns for you, awesome .

PlagueEphlik - Harshlands

Jaabg - Sanctuary wrote: »

I did not know that, had to look it up, thanks b:pleased. I tend to lag in NW, TW, weapon switching with 3~4 weapons = not a good idea. I would rather use aeolian blade skill and hope it works with my axes, fists, stun with my axes, fist, and use axe for drake base, use axe, fist for smack. Depends on the opponent and how many i fight. But if pole pushback stuns for you, awesome .

i meant that i do meteor for a stun in 1 vs 1s at times but nvm forget i said that cause im speaking from a whole different perspective of a server where everyone is 3rd cast r9 and i use warsoul pole. But i hotkey 90% of wut i do anyway so i can switch between all weapons easily and i end up using fists and swords the least currently. But even on pwi theres nothing wrong with attempting meteor rush for a stun if ur low on chi or dont wanna put roar in cooldown / waste a spark on drake bash in a 1 vs 1, and in group if its crowded and uve used roar already earlier then y not try for a stun for 1 hit then switch back to axe? you ppl make it sound like its the worst thing ever lol. My main point was that imo knockback would be better on atmos since it would mess with the stun if it was on meteor. Unless an AOE knockback is that important to have ofcourse on a bm..

Maelael - Heavens Tear

PlagueEphlik - Harshlands wrote: »

a server where everyone is 3rd cast r9 and i use warsoul pole.

Trollin Trollin Trollin...

Jaabg - Sanctuary

Maelael - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Trollin Trollin Trollin...

PlagueEphlik is being honest about playing on a private server, i don't think that is trolling b:sad. If s/he denies the fact they play on the private server, well let me quote Maelael

Maelael - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Trollin Trollin Trollin...

Maelael - Heavens Tear

Jaabg - Sanctuary wrote: »

PlagueEphlik is being honest about playing on a private server, i don't think that is trolling b:sad. If s/he denies the fact they play on the private server, well let me quote Maelael

When everyone has +13 Rank 11 gear theres not much strategy to facerolling with whatever "endgame" weapon you randomly pick outta your inventory. Tactics there past the basics really don't translate to here given the gear disparity. So it's really just trolling, he/she/it should be posting on the pserver's boards.

Zanryu - Lothranis

Maelael - Heavens Tear wrote: »

When everyone has +13 Rank 11 gear theres not much strategy to facerolling with whatever "endgame" weapon you randomly pick outta your inventory. Tactics there past the basics really don't translate to here given the gear disparity. So it's really just trolling, he/she/it should be posting on the pserver's boards.

I agree that private server talk should be kept to private server forums, and that tactics there don't apply here (unless you're part of that very small percentage with amazing gear.) Some private servers keep the gear tame, limited to what's obtainable in PWI. It's just the ability to level past 105 that makes thing a bit screwy. Either way, P server achievements are irrelevant. Make me a hamburger please.