Stubborn nw people
Staryu - Dreamweaver
Posts: 109 Arc User
Why do people keep defending when they already lost the war and the battle?
Like today, frost was last by a large margin. In the battle I was in, dark was winning with 1 flag capped and them with none. There's only a couple minutes left, but they still defended until nw ended. In the end no one got points. If they would've let the winning side win already, everyone would've gotten more individual points and tokens.
Like today, frost was last by a large margin. In the battle I was in, dark was winning with 1 flag capped and them with none. There's only a couple minutes left, but they still defended until nw ended. In the end no one got points. If they would've let the winning side win already, everyone would've gotten more individual points and tokens.
Post edited by Staryu - Dreamweaver on
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Staryu - Dreamweaver wrote: »Why do people keep defending when they already lost the war and the battle?
Like today, frost was last by a large margin. In the battle I was in, dark was winning with 1 flag capped and them with none. There's only a couple minutes left, but they still defended until nw ended. In the end no one got points. If they would've let the winning side win already, everyone would've gotten more individual points and tokens.
When 5 minutes are left, i warn everyone on the world chat, and suggest to let their battles end. I also pm the r9s on the other team, to tell them to lose/win it, and instruct my team too. Hasn't always worked, but does sometimes.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
I'll fight till the end no matter what lol. That's how a true warrior fights. NEVER GIVE UP EVEN IF ALL SEEMS HOPELESS!0
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Chigenkaiona - Dreamweaver wrote: »I'll fight till the end no matter what lol. That's how a true warrior fights. NEVER GIVE UP EVEN IF ALL SEEMS HOPELESS!
By the end of NW, I personally don't care about the extra little points that can be gained. And I'm with Chigen here, even if it's a hopeless battle, I still strive to give my enemies a pain in the butt b:victory[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Sig made by Dorset b:victoryb:thanks0 -
I think there's three things people need to learn to maximize points.
1) If there's like 5 minute left, simply let the first nation to touch the flag cap it twice. Otherwise NOBODY gets points for the last battle. Everyone else should just PVP til it's over and let the barb stroll right over to the cap spot with the flag.
2) Do NOT pick up the flag unless you run fast. Your entire battle can suffer for this, which can make your entire nation suffer. For wars with no opponents in them? Those are worth like 50-100 personal credits; you want out of them ASAP. Making the battle last like 6 minutes longer just so you can get 150 personal credits instead of 100? Absolutely not worth it; you want out of there to go fight in a battle that's worth REAL points.
3) Be considerate of nation battles adjacent to your own. For example, let's say you're bidding near the north east corner as Frost, and you're moving south on Dark nation. If there's another Frost squad advancing on Dark capitol and they're literally on the border of the map just to the east of you? Leave them room to navigate and advance. If you finish your battle first, do NOT move southeast and block them off unless you have no choice. Otherwise, move south-southwest to give them room to advance. If you cut them off, you're potentially sending 20 capable allies back to base to struggle to find another battle to take in, which while this doesn't hinder your score directly, it does in the long run because it means your nation is gaining less land.
I had two Nation wars in a row where my squad and another squad we were familiar with just so happened to attack the same land. The first week? We all did amazing. I kept in touch with the other squad leader, we coordinated our movements across the map and nothing stopped us, resulting in high scores for everyone involved. The second Nation war? Some idiots cut us off right at the start. They randomly moved south towards the border when they had plenty of breathing room otherwise, sending us back to base and ruining the entire setup. It was the most frustrating thing, knowing that we had a PERFECT winning setup and it was immediately ruined simply because our own allies didn't stop to consider that they were cutting off our advance. Sure enough, my squad spent the majority of that war looking for a battle that wasn't full....I
AGOREY0 -
I was in frost last night. Only reason I kept defending even in last place was to be a pain in darks ****, and open up breathing room to let others out of the base for that last 5 min grab for land, haha. Though the last fight I was in ended like a minute or two before it all ended.0
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Longknife - Harshlands wrote: »I think there's three things people need to learn to maximize points.
1) If there's like 5 minute left, simply let the first nation to touch the flag cap it twice. Otherwise NOBODY gets points for the last battle. Everyone else should just PVP til it's over and let the barb stroll right over to the cap spot with the flag.
2) Do NOT pick up the flag unless you run fast. Your entire battle can suffer for this, which can make your entire nation suffer. For wars with no opponents in them? Those are worth like 50-100 personal credits; you want out of them ASAP. Making the battle last like 6 minutes longer just so you can get 150 personal credits instead of 100? Absolutely not worth it; you want out of there to go fight in a battle that's worth REAL points.
3) Be considerate of nation battles adjacent to your own. For example, let's say you're bidding near the north east corner as Frost, and you're moving south on Dark nation. If there's another Frost squad advancing on Dark capitol and they're literally on the border of the map just to the east of you? Leave them room to navigate and advance. If you finish your battle first, do NOT move southeast and block them off unless you have no choice. Otherwise, move south-southwest to give them room to advance. If you cut them off, you're potentially sending 20 capable allies back to base to struggle to find another battle to take in, which while this doesn't hinder your score directly, it does in the long run because it means your nation is gaining less land.
I had two Nation wars in a row where my squad and another squad we were familiar with just so happened to attack the same land. The first week? We all did amazing. I kept in touch with the other squad leader, we coordinated our movements across the map and nothing stopped us, resulting in high scores for everyone involved. The second Nation war? Some idiots cut us off right at the start. They randomly moved south towards the border when they had plenty of breathing room otherwise, sending us back to base and ruining the entire setup. It was the most frustrating thing, knowing that we had a PERFECT winning setup and it was immediately ruined simply because our own allies didn't stop to consider that they were cutting off our advance. Sure enough, my squad spent the majority of that war looking for a battle that wasn't full....
im sorry but i believe who ever gets the flag should run it idc if it takes an extra min. Plus im sick of here barbs QQ in chat that there the best flag runners. Archers>barbs we have 2 leaps+2 speed skills and with a orb we can cap it faster then they can0 -
WangZi - Dreamweaver wrote: »By the end of NW, I personally don't care about the extra little points that can be gained. And I'm with Chigen here, even if it's a hopeless battle, I still strive to give my enemies a pain in the butt b:victory
+1 to you guys. And if it makes greedy people rage I just call that gravy... b:pleased0 -
Channman - Lost City wrote: »im sorry but i believe who ever gets the flag should run it idc if it takes an extra min. Plus im sick of here barbs QQ in chat that there the best flag runners. Archers>barbs we have 2 leaps+2 speed skills and with a orb we can cap it faster then they can
If the archer is a one shot this doesn't matter. And it's not just an extra minute. If a psychic or cleric grabs the flag (Without speed pots) it takes much longer to capture the flag, and wastes everybody's time. Even if it was just 'a minute', that adds up due to the fact that there are so many battles within the two hour time frame, meaning that it could hinder your team quite significantly.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Terrastrike - Lost City wrote: »If the archer is a one shot this doesn't matter. And it's not just an extra minute. If a psychic or cleric grabs the flag (Without speed pots) it takes much longer to capture the flag, and wastes everybody's time. Even if it was just 'a minute', that adds up due to the fact that there are so many battles within the two hour time frame, meaning that it could hinder your team quite significantly.
Barbs and BMs can be taken down just as easy. We killed a r9 barb who had the flag before he could even get out the hole0 -
Channman - Lost City wrote: »Barbs and BMs can be taken down just as easy. We killed a r9 barb who had the flag before he could even get out the hole
i oneshoted a cleric right before the water while he was surrounded by a group of people(sin,barb,bm,psy)... no need to say they ganked me...xD
they lost the battle and the barb was qqing wc...b:chucklei am waiting for you my little flagcarriers b:kiss0 -
Humm, you all sound greedy, ...
It's a game, let it be anarchy, and let people do what the f they want.
You not happy cause a BM is to slow, Hit the exit button, and be unhappy cause you get no reward.
just enjoy the game ![SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
TCHP - Lost City wrote: »Humm, you all sound greedy, ...
It's a game, let it be anarchy, and let people do what the f they want.
You not happy cause a BM is to slow, Hit the exit button, and be unhappy cause you get no reward.
just enjoy the game !
Hold your horses there, you've got a very twisted, ignorant view of Anarchy's philosophic and political tradition if you think it's free for all, doing whatever you want, because it's quite the oposite in fact. And it's a very different thing for some of us to stand against rigging battles (eg cheating) than taking this to the extreme of suporting slow flag bearers, which is rude, selfish and inconsiderate of other players. If you want to talk greed how about the hog who will ruin things for 19 other people just so he can get the "experience" of scoring with the flag (along with the contribution credits). This is TEAM play, not everyone gets to be the quarterback, and if you want to run the flag either step up (adequately level, skill and gear the appropiate class, LEARN how to play properly) or get out of our way.0 -
MANray_ - Sanctuary wrote: »Hold your horses there, you've got a very twisted, ignorant view of Anarchy's philosophic and political tradition if you think it's free for all, doing whatever you want, because it's quite the oposite in fact. And it's a very different thing for some of us to stand against rigging battles (eg cheating) than taking this to the extreme of suporting slow flag bearers, which is rude, selfish and inconsiderate of other players. If you want to talk greed how about the hog who will ruin things for 19 other people just so he can get the "experience" of scoring with the flag (along with the contribution credits). This is TEAM play, not everyone gets to be the quarterback, and if you want to run the flag either step up (adequately level, skill and gear the appropiate class, LEARN how to play properly) or get out of our way.
So what, if a noob got the flag, your job is to protect him any way, so get to it. Every one want to have points, like they all want to have money. The higher the point the higher there share. Greedy people indeed.
The way you talk, only already rich people would be alllowed the bigger share of the loot. If you really wanted to maximize the game, every one would just lose and win back there borders in already plan fight, making no nation a dominant nation.
This game is already anarchy, I have seen 19 player trying to bring down 4 R9, while the 5th player just run to the goal, whit no opposition.
yeah 20 vs 1 and we lost
So you know what, instead of taking it personnal cause I was alone to try and slow the lost, I just enjoy the 23 coins I got, and I moved on whit my life.
what does political tradition have to do whit a game ?
it's a pvp game, any thing goes , Since my team leader is whit me 10% of the fight, I do what I can for my side. Meaning I can also do nothing if I wanted some nation to win. What about all those alt that log in fight and barely moves, are those fair !
Just because you think this game should be played a certain way, don't make it right. If the NW was really about getting this flag on the other side has fast has it should be, then just like in TW only a certain class would be able to get the flag. This is a 1st come 1st serve pvp instance.
If this NW was OR topic was really about game strategy, then people would not QQ about the result being that a nation has less supply token in the end.
This is about MONEY, not mine, not yours, but the money this QQ thread starter did'nt get. I have been in flame nation on LC since start and lost all the fight in that nation. I got under 50 supply token every NW. And I don't complain cause players don't play the flag. In fact why should I care, I still got my part of the loot.
I say just enjoy the game, do what you want, and let the QQ continue ![SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Channman - Lost City wrote: »im sorry but i believe who ever gets the flag should run it idc if it takes an extra min. Plus im sick of here barbs QQ in chat that there the best flag runners. Archers>barbs we have 2 leaps+2 speed skills and with a orb we can cap it faster then they can
I'm sure you're aware that barbs have the lowest DPS in game so running the flag allows them to get points too. Taking that away from them is down right selfish.0 -
Bellicious - Dreamweaver wrote: »I'm sure you're aware that barbs have the lowest DPS in game so running the flag allows them to get points too. Taking that away from them is down right selfish.
They get most points for the damage they take, barbs can withstand a lot of punishment (most of them), some even deal sick dmg with r9 weapon, flag is just a bonus for them.[SIGPIC]http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=14516063001&dateline=1364756666[/SIGPIC] Ty Silvy
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Angel_Spawn - Sanctuary wrote: »They get most points for the damage they take, barbs can withstand a lot of punishment (most of them), some even deal sick dmg with r9 weapon, flag is just a bonus for them.
This, barbs get a ton of points. If you can absorb damage you can get a ton of points. And it all means nothing if people are going ot be petty and let the flag reset and let reinforcements take over because they don't want to help the flag runner. I've seen so many squishy people take the flag because they were sitting next to it for a couple of minutes and nobody else including the barbs who cry once it's taken were doing anything with it several times. I've also seen those same people tank stun lockers for a few minutes with no support while people just let them die purely because of the class they play. Often those same people lose the war and blame the flag runner. Anyone who is not a one or two shot can run the flag successfully if they are protected. It might take longer but ask yourself not why the squishy people picked it up but why those barbs were busy fighting instead of flag running.0 -
oVenusArmanio wrote: »This, barbs get a ton of points. If you can absorb damage you can get a ton of points. And it all means nothing if people are going ot be petty and let the flag reset and let reinforcements take over because they don't want to help the flag runner. I've seen so many squishy people take the flag because they were sitting next to it for a couple of minutes and nobody else including the barbs who cry once it's taken were doing anything with it several times. I've also seen those same people tank stun lockers for a few minutes with no support while people just let them die purely because of the class they play. Often those same people lose the war and blame the flag runner. Anyone who is not a one or two shot can run the flag successfully if they are protected. It might take longer but ask yourself not why the squishy people picked it up but why those barbs were busy fighting instead of flag running.
Exactly ![SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
TCHP - Lost City wrote: »So what, if a noob got the flag, your job is to protect him any way, so get to it. No, it isn't. In fact I would PK the guy myself if I was able to.Every one want to have points, like they all want to have money. The higher the point the higher there share. Greedy people indeed.This may come as a shock to you but NW is a competitive activity, and often people who engage in competitive activities are looking to win. There's also pride in it, and if you're against the concept of competition then I wonder what are you really doing on a progression based game.
The way you talk, only already rich people would be alllowed the bigger share of the loot.No, but it doesn't mean I'm against the basic concept that people who have worked in progressing their character should reap the benefits of better capacities. If you really wanted to maximize the game, every one would just lose and win back there borders in already plan fight, making no nation a dominant nation.Which would no longer make it a competitive endeavour, I'm not out to "maximize" the game...
This game is already anarchy, The term you're looking for here is barbarism, not anarchy. If you don't want to educate yourself on the actual meaning of the term don't use it.I have seen 19 player trying to bring down 4 R9, while the 5th player just run to the goal, whit no opposition.
yeah 20 vs 1 and we lost
You only lost because you refused to work as a team. And where were you in the middle of all this?
So you know what, instead of taking it personnal cause I was alone to try and slow the lost, I just enjoy the 23 coins I got, and I moved on whit my life.
I'm only posting on a forum, not "obsessing" over it. And certainly not blaming others for my performance...
what does political tradition have to do whit a game ?
You're the one who brought up anarchy.
it's a pvp game, any thing goes , Since my team leader is whit me 10% of the fight, I do what I can for my side. Meaning I can also do nothing if I wanted some nation to win.I have absolutely no idea what is it that you were trying to say here. What about all those alt that log in fight and barely moves, are those fair !No, they're not. But it's you who's defending anything goes, not me.
Just because you think this game should be played a certain way, don't make it right.No, but I am entitled to a reasonable expectation that if I engage in team play, my team mates will act accordingly. If you just want to PK there's plenty of other places to do it. If the NW was really about getting this flag on the other side has fast has it should be, then just like in TW only a certain class would be able to get the flag. That's rather presumptuous and it has nothing to do with the point we are arguing.This is a 1st come 1st serve pvp instance.No, it isn't. And that's probably the reason I have in fact collected more than 50 tokens quite a few times as an 8xer veno who's never been on a winning nation. I've certainly never collected fewer than 30 supply tokens, mrs. High-n mighty 102 on a PvP server.
If this NW was OR topic was really about game strategy, then people would not QQ about the result being that a nation has less supply token in the end.Human beings wouldn't complain about losing? How long has it been since you stepped outside your room?
This is about MONEY, not mine, not yours, but the money this QQ thread starter did'nt get.No, that's what both you and the OP are choosing to make this about, but it doesn't mean it is. I have been in flame nation on LC since start and lost all the fight in that nation. I got under 50 supply token every NW. And I don't complain cause players don't play the flag. In fact why should I care, I still got my part of the loot.LOL, so you don't care about anybody else as long as you're getting yours? It's not that you're not greedy, just that you're not ambitious apparently...
I say just enjoy the game, do what you want, and let the QQ continue !And I say go play a single player RPG if you can't handle interacting with other people...
b:sweatoVenusArmanio wrote: »This, barbs get a ton of points. If you can absorb damage you can get a ton of points. And it all means nothing if people are going ot be petty and let the flag reset and let reinforcements take over because they don't want to help the flag runner. I've seen so many squishy people take the flag because they were sitting next to it for a couple of minutes and nobody else including the barbs who cry once it's taken were doing anything with it several times. I've also seen those same people tank stun lockers for a few minutes with no support while people just let them die purely because of the class they play. Often those same people lose the war and blame the flag runner. Anyone who is not a one or two shot can run the flag successfully if they are protected. It might take longer but ask yourself not why the squishy people picked it up but why those barbs were busy fighting instead of flag running.
This is a very different thing, please have the intelectual honesty not to muddle things with a strawman. Yes, if no better suited player is stepping up to score then you should get the job done regardless of your capacities. That doesn't mean slow runners should be camping the flag spawns trying to beat others on their own side. It's a common sense thing, come on... And just one more thing, how is it that so many people on forums seem to run across nothing but incompetent and idiots when playing the game? I mean it couldn't have anything to do with you people trying to embellish a story and come off as pro, right?0 -
Staryu - Dreamweaver wrote: »Why do people keep defending when they already lost the war and the battle?
Like today, frost was last by a large margin. In the battle I was in, dark was winning with 1 flag capped and them with none. There's only a couple minutes left, but they still defended until nw ended. In the end no one got points. If they would've let the winning side win already, everyone would've gotten more individual points and tokens.
Like I care about that extra token or two that I am going to get from the extra points. There are people who stay inside and pk long after the tokens has been handed out.1. If I kill you; do something about it yourself, don't go complaining to my wife.
2. If you have less kill counts then me, don't expect me to take pk advice from you.
3. If you are hiding behind an alt, don't expect me to acknowledge your existence.
Tokichiro - Heavy Armor Fish / Kiyoshi - Dual Blade Elf0 -
Anarchy has more than one definition. In the United States, the term "anarchy" typically is used to refer to a society without a publicly enforced government or violently enforced political authority. When used in this sense, anarchy may or may not be intended to imply political disorder or lawlessness within a society.
Outside of the U.S., and by most individuals that self-identify as anarchists, it implies a system of governance, mostly theoretical at a nation state level. There are also other forms of Anarchy that attempt to avoid the use of coercion, violence, force and authority, while still producing a productive and desirable society
The word "Anarchy" comes from the ancient Greek ἀναρχία, anarchia, from ἀν an, "not, without" + ἀρχός arkhos, "ruler", meaning "absence of a leader"...
So Ty for educating me,
now since there is an abscence of leader, I will still say that NW is in fact Anarchy whit a twist of chaos.
Ty wiki btw for the text[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
MANray_ - Sanctuary wrote: »This is a very different thing, please have the intelectual honesty not to muddle things with a strawman. Yes, if no better suited player is stepping up to score then you should get the job done regardless of your capacities. That doesn't mean slow runners should be camping the flag spawns trying to beat others on their own side. It's a common sense thing, come on... And just one more thing, how is it that so many people on forums seem to run across nothing but incompetent and idiots when playing the game? I mean it couldn't have anything to do with you people trying to embellish a story and come off as pro, right?
I almost never see squishys camping the flag that successfully steal it from the barb. Usually if the barb is there at spawn, he's the one that gets it. That's the majority that i have seen of what happens when a squishy grabs a flag. It's not a strawman to bring up counter points just because you personally don't feel it is related. It's perfectly related because it addresses why most squishys grab them in the first place. And in fact solves the problem entirely. If everyone protected the flag grabber regardless of who it was, battles would be won faster. It often takes more time to wait for the squishy person to die, let the flag reset, battle it out for the flag all over again, and then run the flag than the extra minute it takes to protect the flag carrier. And if people want to waste the nation time because they don't want to protect certain flag carriers, then I blame that one teamwork not on the flag carrier. This whole thread is discussing one aspect of the game, so people bring up the time it stood out most. That's all it's natural with this type of discussion and I wouldn't assume other motives just because of it. You say it's about teamwork but where is the rage at the barbs/archers/bms not camping the flag spawn points? Why is okay for them to be racking up kills in the center and completely ignoring the flag, but not okay for squishys to at least contribute a point towards the final score? At least, more often than not that is what I have seen. Squishies camping spawn points to protect the flag carrier, especially clerics who typically heal the flag carrier. But if nobody else is around the cleric is gonna take their slow behind and dig it themselves. I will not blame them for that. And that is usually the case from what i have seen.0 -
Seems to me that most of the people that don't want to cooperate are the butthurt ones that lost their precious farming instance.
I don't have any idea how this thread turned into a who is the best for flag running.0 -
Why do people keep defending when they already lost the war and the battle?
Like today, frost was last by a large margin. In the battle I was in, dark was winning with 1 flag capped and them with none. There's only a couple minutes left, but they still defended until nw ended. In the end no one got points. If they would've let the winning side win already, everyone would've gotten more individual points and tokens.
your nation points just as important as individual points so i wouldnt let enemy just win what if everyone else on my nation did the same lost tonns of land and points you would end up with even less tokens0 -
MrRiddle - Raging Tide wrote: »your nation points just as important as individual points so i wouldnt let enemy just win what if everyone else on my nation did the same lost tonns of land and points you would end up with even less tokens
I think someone figured out that nation score is capped at about 10 minutes before it ends, dunno if personal contribution is also capped at that point though. If that is true then defending after that point becomes pointless. But IDK if that is true or not. We'll just have to wait until someone has all those mechanics figured out. v.v0 -
One bizarre thing that happened no fewer than 5 times in several battles and with different people on Friday was that once they grabbed the flag, they immediately ran to the wrong capture point.
They got a full escort in the wrong direction and then proceed to hop around the wrong colored light like a monkey. Considering they would have to be both colorblind, and ignore the arrow that appears when you have the flag, and everyone yelling WRONG WAY! I can easily do without allies like that.
In one skirmish in particular the time it took for them to turn around was the time it took the defense to go from 2 people to 16 and we ended up losing despite already having a capture.
I've carried a flag once, and unless you can tank a lot of damage to get your points capturing the flag doesn't give you mad points.
I've actually gotten more points and come in 1st in a 20 vs 0 fight than the guy that captured both flags simply from healing people.
So if you aren't a tank, and you don't have speed pots just guard the flag until someone comes that can defend it better. If nothing else you can get points from hitting the other side that comes for it too.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
f:sneakyf:sneakyf:sneaky0 -
TCHP - Lost City wrote: »Anarchy has more than one definition. In the United States, the term "anarchy" typically is used to refer to a society without a publicly enforced government or violently enforced political authority. When used in this sense, anarchy may or may not be intended to imply political disorder or lawlessness within a society.
Outside of the U.S., and by most individuals that self-identify as anarchists, it implies a system of governance, mostly theoretical at a nation state level. There are also other forms of Anarchy that attempt to avoid the use of coercion, violence, force and authority, while still producing a productive and desirable society
b:sweat Mon dieu.
b:victory The more you know...oVenusArmanio wrote: »I almost never see squishys camping the flag that successfully steal it from the barb. Usually if the barb is there at spawn, he's the one that gets it. That's the majority that i have seen of what happens when a squishy grabs a flag. It's not a strawman to bring up counter points just because you personally don't feel it is related. It's perfectly related because it addresses why most squishys grab them in the first place. And in fact solves the problem entirely. If everyone protected the flag grabber regardless of who it was, battles would be won faster. It often takes more time to wait for the squishy person to die, let the flag reset, battle it out for the flag all over again, and then run the flag than the extra minute it takes to protect the flag carrier. And if people want to waste the nation time because they don't want to protect certain flag carriers, then I blame that one teamwork not on the flag carrier. This whole thread is discussing one aspect of the game, so people bring up the time it stood out most. That's all it's natural with this type of discussion and I wouldn't assume other motives just because of it. You say it's about teamwork but where is the rage at the barbs/archers/bms not camping the flag spawn points? Why is okay for them to be racking up kills in the center and completely ignoring the flag, but not okay for squishys to at least contribute a point towards the final score? At least, more often than not that is what I have seen. Squishies camping spawn points to protect the flag carrier, especially clerics who typically heal the flag carrier. But if nobody else is around the cleric is gonna take their slow behind and dig it themselves. I will not blame them for that. And that is usually the case from what i have seen.
b:lipcurlI know it seems like I mostly enjoy this type of exchange, but sometimes it's just exhausting. Now, what you're doing here is taking a reasonable, logic tactic, that flag bearers should ideally be ressilient, fast characters, and turning it on its head on what is mostly abstract scenarios and anecdotic evidence. All things being equal there will be a better chance the higher level, better geared player will know what he/she is doing. I've certainly seen my fair share of mid leveled would be flag carriers holy path into walls, run in the wrong direction and yes, just standing there...
It may seem to you that the R9 barb next to a flag may just be PKing for fun or to rack up contribution points, but he can little afford to become a sitting duck while grabbing the flag against equally geared oponents. So your low level cleric comes in and rather than sleep the other guy or in any other way helping the higher levels fighting to keep the flag for his side, decides he's waited long enough and that things will go a whole lot better if he grabs it himself. And it isn't a couple of minutes, I haven't seen a flag stand that long since the first weekend unless the pit has become a cauldron of AoEs no lowbie would survive through anyway. You think this guy can be protected? You can be fully surrounded by R9rs3 and all it takes is a single, equally geared, archer or sin stealthing through to one shot the guy. And it's not like half the classes in the game have ranged attacks, that people can't get in the way off. Much the same as we can't just tackle anyone getting through. You write that a squishy should be able to take a hit or two, but of course aps is not going to deliver just that and the fact of the matter is there's plenty of participants that can one shot your would be lowbie hero.
It may very well be that your server is full of idiots but in mine there's quite a few participants that have become exceedingly efficient at both running flags and stopping them. Further, NW can be somewhat disorienting for the inexperienced and I don't consider morons the people that make mistakes their first few times making a run. Meaning that in the competitive environment only those with a real chance at success should be making the runs, and not just any lowbie who just happens to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. Because the flag bearers going down are rarely the high level, well geared barbs, archers, bms or venos. You speak from your own experience, well I speak from mine. If you're not going to be a part of the team then you can at least make yourself useful PKing the guys on the other side. But if you're going to go for the flag you better be able to deliver because there's 19 other players counting on you. And this is what makes it really much worse than a party wipe. Why is it so hard for some people to understand that the time of others is something valuable and not to be wasted? And why do some players always jump to the conclussion that if they see others doing something they don't understand they must be wrong? I don't play under the assumption everyone is an idiot but me, far to the contrary, I do my best to avoid mistakes that may turn out to be costly for others. So please let's just agree to disagree and just leave it at that we both think the faster, more ressilient people should "ideally" be running the flag. Because if you can't give me just that I'm afraid this discussion has gone way beyond logic.
Way to appropiately name a thread OP...0 -
Last NW, for once, our side actually listened and let the team with the flag cap it to finish the war. Very surprised people did listen for once, after reading all the hero wannabes on this thread.
After the loss I got about 400 points. This netted me something like 8 more tokens than the few others who scored what I was on before the battle. At 250k a token, that's 2m free in my pocket for simply having the sense to stand down. Since you can't even see any names, and it's only a game, no one is going to care in the end whether you "bravely" fought until the last minute.0 -
Liam_ - Sanctuary wrote: »After the loss I got about 400 points. This netted me something like 8 more tokens than the few others who scored what I was on before the battle. At 250k a token, that's 2m free in my pocket for simply having the sense to stand down. Since you can't even see any names, and it's only a game, no one is going to care in the end whether you "bravely" fought until the last minute.
Personally, my thoughts are "2m, big deal, whatever" but of course not everyone thinks about coins the same way I do. And I don't care if anyone else thinks I fought bravely or not. I attacked/defended a land to FIGHT and have fun fighting other players, and I'd choose derping around and fighting over a measly extra 8 tokens or whatever.
On a side note... picking up the flag doesn't get you any extra points from my experience. For instance, we're in a 20 vs 0, I capture BOTH flags, and end up ranking 5th on my team. So picking up flag doesn't really benefit you OTHER than winning the land faster (which is GOOD because you can move on to other battles faster).[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Sig made by Dorset b:victoryb:thanks0 -
oVenusArmanio wrote: »I almost never see squishys camping the flag that successfully steal it from the barb. Usually if the barb is there at spawn, he's the one that gets it.
On Sanctuary, half the time im next to flag with other campers, they click faster than me and take it.. If they can tank damage,ie, good refine sharded gear or they run fast like archers its cool but if they lvl 75 sins and die in 1/10th of a hit then its annoying and funny b:laugh0
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