Undine Strike and Genie Spark

Thrieya - Lost City

So after giving my PvP genie a makeover and adding Extreme Poison/Spark to its skill list, I've been wondering how these debuffs stack with Undine.

As far as I know, all Extreme Poison does is multiply all damage taken by 1.2 for the duration of the debuff, after attack strength and resistances have come into play, so that's not my biggest concern.

However, does anyone know how Undine and Spark work with each other? Undine reduces Fire, Earth, and Water resist by 60% each, while Spark reduces Fire resist by 30% and each Genie Dexterity point increases the Fire resistance reduction by 0.7%. Currently, my genie has 69 Dex, so that would mean the additional Fire resistance reduction would be 48.3%.

Does that mean that my Spark, without Undine, would reduce Fire resistance of the target by 78.3%, or does that 48.3% count as 48.3% of the original 30% reduction? That would mean that my Spark would only reduce Fire resistance by 44.49%.

On top of all that, how does this stack up with Undine? In theory, Undine reducing resistances by 60% means that the target would have only 40% of what they would normally have, when debuffed.

Now, if I cast Spark after casting Undine, does that mean my Spark will reduce what's left of their Fire resist, which would be 40% of their original Fire defense, by 78.3%(or 44.49%), or would that 78.3%/44.49% count from their full Fire resistance?

Personally, I'm wondering if taking the time to stack Undine and Spark is even really worth it, because the extra second taken to cast Undine could mean the difference between successfully escaping a gank and dying to one, for me. Depending on the difference Undine makes, I might forgo casting it entirely in certain situations.

FaceRolI - Sanctuary

wut is all this?! its simple...

undine + spark = dead

undine + EP + crit = dead

undine + spark + EP + crit = 'too' dead

/Avada Kedavra

AshenSkies - Heavens Tear

FaceRolI - Sanctuary wrote: »

wut is all this?! its simple...

undine + spark = dead

undine + EP + crit = dead

undine + spark + EP + crit = 'too' dead

/Avada Kedavra

This.

Pretty much all you need to know.

Dump all the points you can into dex on your genie(have 45 mag/vit rest into dex).

soundslegit

FaceRolI - Sanctuary wrote: »

wut is all this?! its simple...

undine + spark = dead

undine + EP + crit = dead

undine + spark + EP + crit = 'too' dead

/Avada Kedavra

Translation: save genie energy for AD when sins attack.

Nurfed_You - Harshlands

Adroit had a table of total mdef vs undine+genie spark and them seperate from each other.

What it came down to is that unbuffed the more mdef your target has the worse it effects them. aka more of a damage amp

Where some confusion comes from is if they have buffs. normally you have 100% mdef. with cleric buffs you have 160% mdef. iirc and i may not, your debuffs will only take away from the base 100% mdef and they will have cleric buffs left over. I can't seem to find adroit's chart to check though.

Either way, self buffed 1v1's. genie spark will lower there fire defense enough that you should be able to bypass an AA's charm or sutra an HA down

Spell_Caster - Raging Tide

There is another genie skill that lowers fire def and stacks with spark and undine but i have realised indeed EP +undine+spark is rly devastating.

Skite - Lost City

Two other skills actually. Smoldering Burst and Earthblaze. Earthblaze is an aoe one, so maybe an option for that BT you wanna use on lots of people.

Thrieya - Lost City

Nurfed_You - Harshlands wrote: »

Where some confusion comes from is if they have buffs. normally you have 100% mdef. with cleric buffs you have 160% mdef. iirc and i may not, your debuffs will only take away from the base 100% mdef and they will have cleric buffs left over. I can't seem to find adroit's chart to check though.

Either way, self buffed 1v1's. genie spark will lower there fire defense enough that you should be able to bypass an AA's charm or sutra an HA down

Problem comes when the opponent IS a cleric. I hate fighting those so much. And I was wondering how m. def. buffs would also affect the reduction, thanks.

Adroit - Lost City

Here's the table Nurfed_You mentioned, I hope you like numbers!
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AhrQ6dHVk9FidGF1Uml1SUNmSjk0OXhYeFFTZ244X3c&authkey=CN-3hpEJ&authkey=CN-3hpEJ#gid=0

Fissile - Archosaur

Spark level 10 on a 100 dex genie reduces your unbuffed opponent's fire defense to zero. To calculate the fire defense after undine and spark:

Fire Defense*[Sum of Mag Def Buffs + (1 - Undine Reduction)*(1 - Spark Reduction)]


The numbers in the table posted above don't look right at all to me.

FluffyRoar - Heavens Tear

It doesn't put every opponent at 0, pending what their gear is like and what kind of armor they are wearing. In fact, I don't think it ever goes to 0. Think the minimum a player can put something to (minus venos with armor break and myriad) is 4 or something.

Thrieya - Lost City

One of the things I'm really wondering about is if it's even worth casting Undine before/after Spark, because if the difference Undine makes isn't worth it I might just forgo casting it entirely, seeing as how my -chan is complete and utter cat litter and I find in PvP every second counts.

From Adroit's chart, what I'm seeing is that though Spark and Undine will cause more of a debuff/damage amp on AAs, that doesn't necessarily mean the damage done will be higher, and in the case of the HA/LAs, their magic resists aren't high enough for Undine to make that much of a difference when paired with Spark. I haven't got the opportunity to test this yet, though my gear is pretty **** anyway.

Leni - Raging Tide

Fissile - Archosaur wrote: »

Spark level 10 on a 100 dex genie reduces your unbuffed opponent's fire defense to zero. To calculate the fire defense after undine and spark:

Fire Defense*[Sum of Mag Def Buffs + (1 - Undine Reduction)*(1 - Spark Reduction)]


The numbers in the table posted above don't look right at all to me.

They're actually correct, I ran tests myself with my 100 dex genie vs my lv 89 cleric with 6.1k m.def and here are the results:

Base fire res: 6156
Fire res after Undine: 3789
Fire res after 100 dex Spark: 2211
Fire res after Undine + Spark: 120

Buffed fire res: 8523
Fire res after Undine: 6156
Fire res after 100 dex Spark: 4578
Fire res after Undine + Spark: 2211

So in theory a 100 dex Spark should reduce fire resistance to the minimum possible and undine+spark would just be overkill and pointless since fire res shouldn't go lower... but it does b:shocked


EDIT: @Thrieya
Yeah, vs oponents with low m.def, just undine or spark should be enough or maybe toss undine+EP; but vs arcanes undine+spark is the ****.

mm2000

Leni - Raging Tide wrote: »

They're actually correct, I ran tests myself with my 100 dex genie vs my lv 89 cleric with 6.1k m.def and here are the results:

Base fire res: 6156
Fire res after Undine: 3789
Fire res after 100 dex Spark: 2211
Fire res after Undine + Spark: 120

Buffed fire res: 8523
Fire res after Undine: 6156
Fire res after 100 dex Spark: 4578
Fire res after Undine + Spark: 2211

So in theory a 100 dex Spark should reduce fire resistance to the minimum possible and undine+spark would just be overkill and pointless since fire res shouldn't go lower... but it does b:shocked


EDIT: @Thrieya
Yeah, vs oponents with low m.def, just undine or spark should be enough or maybe toss undine+EP; but vs arcanes undine+spark is the ****.

Detailed pretty well, I am looking forward to using spark more. How about earthblaze and undine? Do those stack?

BurnWhenIWiz - Heavens Tear

Dayum.... so I shouldn't just use spark before dropping a bt on magic marrowed bm's.


"The More You Know..."

Adroit - Lost City

BurnWhenIWiz - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Dayum.... so I shouldn't just use spark before dropping a bt on magic marrowed bm's.


"The More You Know..."

BT is kinda the exception because it's half physical, but even though spark is least effective against a buffed bm.. it's still like 22% amp which is still better than poison (20%). It definitely isn't like the amp you expect on most other chars though lol

Nurfed_You - Harshlands

bm's have to be the most annoying class to kill for me. Barbs are almost as bad but not quite. a well built/played bm is nearly impossible for a wiz to solo r9 vs r9. we'll see if that changes with the Omen set though

BurnWhenIWiz - Heavens Tear

Nurfed_You - Harshlands wrote: »

bm's have to be the most annoying class to kill for me. Barbs are almost as bad but not quite. a well built/played bm is nearly impossible for a wiz to solo r9 vs r9. we'll see if that changes with the Omen set though

The damage increase to smack, blade tornado, and that damn pull back skill they have has made them significantly more of a pain in the ***. I'm not r9, so a r9, well refined bm has to make a mistake for me to do anything to them besides try and kite them into support. b:sad

The reduced pdef from magic marrow + spark + undine + bt is about the only way I can even move their hp bar a noticeable amount on my own. That's a hell of a chain to put together while trying to ping pong around out of their stun range in a 1v1 situation though.

Leni - Raging Tide

mm2000 wrote: »

Detailed pretty well, I am looking forward to using spark more. How about earthblaze and undine? Do those stack?

Idk first hand because I don't have it myself, but if the debuff has the same icon as Spark then it should.