A few questions about the Nation Wars

ParasiteEve_ - Raging Tide

Hi there I was wondering if you guys could answer a few questions that I have about this new event. Since I've never pvped before I'm curious about a few things.


1. If I die inside this event would my gear and stuff drop?

2. Do I have to go into White name to take part?

3. Do I get to choose which Nation I represent or is it random?

4. Do I get contributions points from only killing or can I just assist my team mates (I play a cleric)?

5. Whats the exchange rate of a token to canny and rap?

Sorry if my questions are very Nub and thank you in advance for the responses.

Euthymius - Heavens Tear

Let's see..
1. No
2. No
3. Randomly assigned to one nation, but if you're squadded with a group, they're all assigned to the same one of the four nations.
4. Dealing damage, killing, and grabbing the flag give you contribution
5. 1 Supply token = 5 uncannies/1 rapture.

Fryvorg - Sanctuary

ParasiteEve_ - Raging Tide wrote: »

4. Do I get contributions points from only killing or can I just assist my team mates (I play a cleric)?

Euthymius - Heavens Tear wrote: »

4. Dealing damage, killing, and grabbing the flag give you contribution

I'm not sure about this part. On my Cleric I killed 5 people and dealt damage to maybe 15 during the whole two hours. The remaining time (on the battlefield) I buffed everyone who needed Vanguard Spirit or Spirit's Gift, healed other people and followed the flag carrier. I could survive the entire fights mainly and I was neither on the winning nor on the losing side, but I got 102 Supply Tokens as a R8 with an avarage -chan mix and +5 on Sunday (which even had more participants than Friday according to the forum's posters).

I'd like to see if anyone can confirm that healing and buffing will get you points, too, or if I am led by illusions.

Desdi - Sanctuary

It kinda looks like anything you do gives you contribution lol.
So far I know that you get points for; killing, dealing damage, grabbing flag and winning a land.Also, maybe from the position your nation has in the rankings?

Nahktuul - Archosaur

Fryvorg - Sanctuary wrote: »

I'm not sure about this part. On my Cleric I killed 5 people and dealt damage to maybe 15 during the whole two hours. The remaining time (on the battlefield) I buffed everyone who needed Vanguard Spirit or Spirit's Gift, healed other people and followed the flag carrier. I could survive the entire fights mainly and I was neither on the winning nor on the losing side, but I got 102 Supply Tokens as a R8 with an avarage -chan mix and +5 on Sunday (which even had more participants than Friday according to the forum's posters).

I'd like to see if anyone can confirm that healing and buffing will get you points, too, or if I am led by illusions.

Your R8 cleric got more tokens than my R8 archer, in which all of my time was spent killing people while protecting the flag runners. WTF? lol

Sirrobert - Dreamweaver

Nahktuul - Archosaur wrote: »

Your R8 cleric got more tokens than my R8 archer, in which all of my time was spent killing people while protecting the flag runners. WTF? lol

A HUGE difference is what nation you are in, if you are in the winning nation you can get way more tokens with way less work than in the losing nation.

Also healing seems to have a pritty big impact as wel

Chigenkaiona - Dreamweaver

I wish a GM could confirm if healing gave contribution or not or even buffing, but I doubt it. Assisting maybe killing people trying to kill the flag carrier but nothing more as it's damage dealing. I suppose it's also dependent on how much actual damage you do..if a sin was successful enough to kill a lot of people without dying much I'm sure they'd get as much as other classes who use massive aoe's like Arma or Tempest that give so much higher damage. All I can confirm is:

Victory land for your Nation you join in=your score increases once it's been won.

Perhaps this is the illusion people see? That they actually join lands that are winning more then others losing and get more VS others who join losing lands to DD people and get lower score when the enemy wins the land.

Azura - Lost City

I wonder if debuffing and amping people gives points, lol.

Annalyse - Heavens Tear

I know people that spent the entire time *only* healing and buffing. And got no points.

I'm inclined to believe it is all about damage/flag/winning battles and winning nations. Though imo it should work more like a PQ and have healing give more points as well.

Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973

The scoring / reward algorithm is described here but the math is too technical for google to translate it. Any native speakers can give it a go?

（三） 国战奖励
　　1） 奖励计算规则
　　战斗结束时将根据各国家的积分和玩家自己的个人积分计算出玩家所获得的奖励。

单个战场总积分：每一场战役最终计算出的战场总积分都与参加过这场战役的每一位玩家属性及战斗力息息相关。
【该战场的地图分值】，【战役持续的时间】，【敌方每位玩家的魂力和他在战场中的存在时间】，以及【敌方玩家输出的伤害】的总和是构成该场战役积分总值的重要元素。
采用瓜分方法，每一位参与该场战役的玩家所获得的个人积分，都是从总积分中分取一杯羹。
个人积分：系统根据玩家个人在本战场中【输出的伤害】【承受的伤害】【杀死的敌人】计算出一个数值，并针对此数值进行相关排序，得出每位参与过战斗的玩家在该场战役中的战斗排名。数值越高，排名越靠前。
每一位排名对应不同的系数。玩家的单场个人积分=（自己排名系数/(所有参与排名的玩家系数之和)*单个战场总积分+附加值*15）

SashaGray - Heavens Tear

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

The scoring / reward algorithm is described here but the math is too technical for google to translate it. Any native speakers can give it a go?

scoring system is ancient chinese secret

Mr_Swiss - Heavens Tear

Nahktuul - Archosaur wrote: »

Your R8 cleric got more tokens than my R8 archer, in which all of my time was spent killing people while protecting the flag runners. WTF? lol

His R8 cleric got more than my R9 barb that killed about 25 players and took the flag 3 times, but was on the losing team. My girls cleric got nothing at all. But she didnt kill either. Curious as to how you got so many tokens. The first time I played, I was on the winning team, I got 238 tokens. the second time I got 67 tokens on the losing team. Not sure how you got that many tokens.

Haila - Sanctuary

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

The scoring / reward algorithm is described here but the math is too technical for google to translate it. Any native speakers can give it a go?

Thanks for the info now i know how to get points b:thanks

Nahktuul - Archosaur

SashaGray - Heavens Tear wrote: »

scoring system is ancient chinese secret

BTW, I love your signature b:victory

Facerolled - Raging Tide

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

The scoring / reward algorithm is described here but the math is too technical for google to translate it. Any native speakers can give it a go?

"单个战场总积分：每一场战役最终计算出的战场总积分都与参加过这场战役的每一位玩家属性及战斗 力息息相关。
【该战场的地图分值】，【战役持续的时间】，【敌方每位玩家的魂力和他在战场中的存在时间】，以及【敌方玩 家输出的伤害】的总和是构成该场战役积分总值的重要元素。
采用瓜分方法，每一位参与该场战役的玩家所获得的个人积分，都是从总积分中分取一杯羹。
个人积分：系统根据玩家个人在本战场中【输出的伤害】【承受的伤害】【杀死的敌人】计算出一个数值，并针对 此数值进行相关排序，得出每位参与过战斗的玩家在该场战役中的战斗排名。数值越高，排名越靠前 。
每一位排名对应不同的系数。玩家的单场个人积分=（自己排名系数/(所有参与排名的玩家系数之和)*单个战场总积分+附加值*15）"

Value of land, time in battle ground, every enemy's soul force [?] and time spent in the battle ground. Damage dealt, damage healed, damage taken, enemies kill.

My Chinese isn't the best, but I think I got most of the values used.

_Skai_ - Raging Tide

I guess my thoughts on scoring is right. I knew damage taken and healed were two factors that counted for scoring, since I afk'd an alt in a skirmish and got 400 contribution from dying.

piranhakeet

I have a few faction members that didn't get any tokens? (heavens tear)
My gf is 98 veno on Light Nation (team did outstanding) but she got nothing? No tokens?
Then my team, Flame (we didn't do so good) yet I got 89 tokens friday and 48 sunday.
Had a 101 sin (very well equipped that does TW) with me on Flame and he also got nothing?
I guarantee he killed more then I ever could. But got nothing? I don't get it?

So what is it that can cause good players on winning teams to get nothing?

And here I am, average at best on the losing team and I did ok?

Hexalot - Dreamweaver

Facerolled - Raging Tide wrote: »

Value of land, time in battle ground, every enemy's soul force [?] and time spent in the battle ground. Damage dealt, damage healed, damage taken, enemies kill.

My Chinese isn't the best, but I think I got most of the values used.

"time spent in the battleground"

This needs a bit further clarification. Do they mean, the more time spent in the battle ground, the higher the score ?

Or is it the opposite ?

The soul force reference I'm assuming to mean that the higher the soul force of the enemy you kill relative to your own, the higher your personal score becomes.

Facerolled - Raging Tide

Hexalot - Dreamweaver wrote: »

"time spent in the battleground"

This needs a bit further clarification. Do they mean, the more time spent in the battle ground, the higher the score ?

Or is it the opposite ?

The soul force reference I'm assuming to mean that the higher the soul force of the enemy you kill relative to your own, the higher your personal score becomes.

More time you spend in battle ground, higher the score, at least that's what I get from it.

WnbTank - Archosaur

Hexalot - Dreamweaver wrote: »

"time spent in the battleground"

This needs a bit further clarification. Do they mean, the more time spent in the battle ground, the higher the score ?

Or is it the opposite ?

The soul force reference I'm assuming to mean that the higher the soul force of the enemy you kill relative to your own, the higher your personal score becomes.

I dont think it has anything to do with individual soulforce but teams sum. Those on other hand might be sorta relative - I know i scored ~2k on first instance on Friday and it was pretty even war, we might of been bit weaker. On other hand I got ~500 from rest of the wars, I did end up in the same instance with R9+12 squad most of the time on our nation - I dont know if it was my personal ranking among my nation in the instance that made the difference or the fact we out soulforced enemy hard.

Somebody asked bout time spent on battlefield, I can confirm the longer you are there, the more points you get. I got ~30 points from instance where I joined bout the time it already ended.

Hexalot - Dreamweaver

WnbTank - Archosaur wrote: »

I dont think it has anything to do with individual soulforce but teams sum. Those on other hand might be sorta relative - I know i scored ~2k on first instance on Friday and it was pretty even war, we might of been bit weaker. On other hand I got ~500 from rest of the wars, I did end up in the same instance with R9+12 squad most of the time on our nation - I dont know if it was my personal ranking among my nation in the instance that made the difference or the fact we out soulforced enemy hard.

Somebody asked bout time spent on battlefield, I can confirm the longer you are there, the more points you get. I got ~30 points from instance where I joined bout the time it already ended.

Ah.. ok. I also noticed there was no mention in the translation about whether or not carrying the flag contributed to your personal score or not. Albeit that may be tied to damage taken since whomever is running the flag will be on the receiving end of a lot of hits more often than not. On the other hand if you carrier the flag successfully with no damage... your score may not be increased in any way it seems.

Nahktuul - Archosaur

Hexalot - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Ah.. ok. I also noticed there was no mention in the translation about whether or not carrying the flag contributed to your personal score or not. Albeit that may be tied to damage taken since whomever is running the flag will be on the receiving end of a lot of hits more often than not. On the other hand if you carrier the flag successfully with no damage... your score may not be increased in any way it seems.

I am not too sure the damage taken is true. My archer gets ganked by at least 3 people all the time, and I survive a lot of major hits. If damage taken were the case, I'd be getting a lot more points >.>

Fryvorg - Sanctuary

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

The scoring / reward algorithm is described here but the math is too technical for google to translate it. Any native speakers can give it a go?
"单个战场总积分：每一场战役最终计算出的战场总积分都与参加过这场战役的每一位玩家属性及战斗 力息息相关。
【该战场的地图分值】，【战役持续的时间】，【敌方每位玩家的魂力和他在战场中的存在时间】，以及【敌方玩 家输出的伤害】的总和是构成该场战役积分总值的重要元素。
采用瓜分方法，每一位参与该场战役的玩家所获得的个人积分，都是从总积分中分取一杯羹。
个人积分：系统根据玩家个人在本战场中【输出的伤害】【承受的伤害】【杀死的敌人】计算出一个数值，并针对 此数值进行相关排序，得出每位参与过战斗的玩家在该场战役中的战斗排名。数值越高，排名越靠前 。
每一位排名对应不同的系数。玩家的单场个人积分=（自己排名系数/(所有参与排名的玩家系数之和)*单个战场总积分+附加值*15）"

Facerolled - Raging Tide wrote: »

Value of land, time in battle ground, every enemy's soul force [?] and time spent in the battle ground. Damage dealt, damage healed, damage taken, enemies kill.

My Chinese isn't the best, but I think I got most of the values used.

Thank you, Asty and boogie, that was just needed to be clarified! b:thanks

I was very surprised, too, that I was rewarded with that many tokens considering my gear/nation/actions. I guess for a healer class a well-balanced work between healing and attacking will result in best scores or even in supply tokens at all (unless you have high attack levels - then killing could be the more efficient option) in case, of course, you have enough luck not to get in the losing nation^^

It is interesting indeed that you won't be rewarded if you participate in the actual game, i.e. grabbing the flag or defending it, contrary to some former assumptions...

soundslegit

I wish someone would convince venos they get points for buffing people. Bramble was the one buff I needed the most and it was like pulling teeth.

MinoSlayer - Dreamweaver

(3) The national battle award
1) reward calculation rules
At the end of the battle, rewards will be calculated and given to players based on the accumulated points of each country and the individual player himself.

Single battlefield total points: The total calculated battlefield points after every battle will be related to the attributes of the player and his power levels.

【The map layout of the battlefield】，【The continued time of the battle】，【Every player on the enemy side's soulforce and the amount of time he will remain in battle】，and 【The damage output of enemy players】combined are important factors for the total battlefield points.

Using the carving up method, the accumulated points for each player participating in the battle, are all taken from the total score.

Individual cumulated points: the system calculates a number based on the individual player's【damage output】【damage taken】and【number of killed enemies】in this battlefield and rank that number accordingly and attain the rank of each player that has participated in the battle. The higher the number, the higher his rank.

Each player's rank correspond to a different coefficient. The player's cumulated points in a single game = (personal ranking coefficient/(the coefficient of all the players in the rank and) * total individual battlefield points + value added * 15)

---

The translation still does not clarifiy everything, but I think the following statements are true:


The total amount of points a battlefield is worth is based on enemy strength ("soulforce") for the duration of battle, enemy damage output, the length of the battle, and the value of the battlefield on the map (currently all battlefields are valued at 1).

Your contrib for a single battle is based on your damage dealt, damage received, and your kills. Players on your side are ranked in each battle.

The total amount of points for a nation for the war is a sum of all the battlefield points for the battles your nation participated in.

At the end of the war, your battlefield ranks and the sum of your battlefield contrib determine what share of the national points you are given.

---

"Damage received" explains why I can get decent contribution as a barbarian. I've come to view NW as trading charm ticks for raps.

Notice that nation and individual points are not directly related to actually capturing the flag and winning a battle. In fact, the highest contrib I ever got for a single battle was a losing battle i joined where I just got killed out at the spawnpoint. The enemy was strong, they did a lot of damage, and I got the whole pot because all my teammates fled or died out quick.

The ranking coefficient is why the lowest scoring people are rounded down to zero contrib. This is probably a good way to discourage alts.

So, basically, you do best when you are continually fighting a bunch of hard battles. Unopposed flag walks get you very little reward.

The best way to spend the whole two hours fighting a bunch of hard battles is to win every battle. That way, you never get cut off unable to join a battle and you are always on the front line or beyond where the enemy is strongest.

MANray_ - Sanctuary

My experience (I've participated in all NW events so far) is that number of kills has been both the easisest to track and the most decissive factor, and contribution rewards have increased as I've worked to improve on this one aspect. Yes, of course, being on the winning side and carrying flags are also good ways to earn contribution, as is being on a winning nation, but for someone getting little to no contribution I would recommend focusing on getting as many kills as possible, preferably those that count towards winning (eg, escorting a flag carrier) but any you can get is good and does help your nation.

There seems to be some debate on whether you would want to get a battle shut down fast or not in order to get better contribution. What I have observed, once again this is from my own experience, is once you've gotten one or two good kills (higher levels, better geared people) is better to move on as at this point the credits you get from just winning seem to be better than what you'd get from further PvP. Because of this I've decided not to leave a field until the battle is either won or lost (also it helps to cut down on transit times) or I'm kicked out from dying 5 times (it does happen to me) as just being present at a victory seems to provide me with 200 credits, around a third to half what I usually get as an 8xer veno.

Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973

MinoSlayer - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Stuff

Thanks for doing the human readable translation. Too bad their guide is a bit light on technical details. Still, I'm actually fairly impressed by the scoring system they come up with. Making the activity worthwhile for both high-levels and low-levels while also discouraging people from bringing in a hoard worthless alts is pretty challenging. They failed to do that with Trials but seem to have put a lot of thought into this.

Boartracker - Raging Tide

Tonight there seemed to be a "system" type message that one of my members saw and tried to track. It seemed to show that the server counted the number of lands held by each nation at the end of a period of about 10 minutes, assigned a point for each land held, and awarded that number of points to that nation. His comment was that it looked like the way Nations were getting their points.

I don't watch the chat box that well and didn't see it. Would like to know if anyone else saw anything like this. 10 minute periods would mean that Nations would get 12 scores added during the event. Sorry, no SS and he didn't video it.

b:bye

ovenusarmanio

I got like 61 tokens on my 64 bm this time around and was mostly just supporting other peoples skill. I never got a flag. I did however get a couple of kills. And took a LOT of damage, lost almost half of my new tidal protection charm. Once I got 1k contribution, I had absorbed a lot of damage and the battle had been pretty long and drawn out. I think the longer a battle lasts, the more damage is dealt, the more contribution everyone gets. Which would make spawn killing counter-productive for personal contribution but good for nation contribution. At least that's what I suspect based off what I have observed.

Star_Prism - Archosaur

Can anyone confirm how the Ranking system works in NW.

Before in NW I would have a rank between 15-12, tonight I managed to get a rank of 4 (I'm assuming that 1 is top and it goes down from there) and I ended up with over 3 times more tokens this NW than my last one. I'm thinking our Rank is how we rate with others of the same class. Do any of the more common classes (sins, seekers) notice a difference when their Rank is higher/lower. Also what do some of you Rank as.

Reliea - Sanctuary

oVenusArmanio wrote: »

I think the longer a battle lasts, the more damage is dealt, the more contribution everyone gets. Which would make spawn killing counter-productive for personal contribution but good for nation contribution. At least that's what I suspect based off what I have observed.

Anything that cuts down on spawn killing would be awesome, spread the word. Everyone likes personal contribution right? >.> why not try to maximize it b:victory

I had a feeling that damage-received also gave contribution, but wasn't sure. Now I'm more sure, I'll support more barbari-ish friends sticking it out to absorb the most.
One day I'll take my barb in, and do nothing except run around taking damage and capturing flags, not even attacking, and see how my reward stacks up to veno-ing around capturing flags n killing people. I can't find a very satisfactory answer regarding how heal/support stacks up against d-taken/d-given, as I'd love to play a healer in NW, but my style favours support/defense more than it does actually PK so I don't think it would be efficient of me to try it when my current method keeps me with consistent levels of contribution and reward.

If what this says is true, that actually -playing- the game (capture the flag yo <.<) carries less meaning than the PK element of the game, I am very disappointed. But also now MUCH less surprised that hardly anyone cares about the flag and more about smashing the **** outta people.

Still, it is proven that no matter how awesome your contribution, if your nation doesn't win, you get dramatically less reward, comparatively. You would think this would increase focus on the game portion of the event, and lead to less pk-orgy. In my opinion the more interesting battles were the ones where people actually tried to capture flags. So I hope the desire to actually -win- the war will encourage people to play in a more balanced manner.