The new level 101~105 buff ''wines''

Nowitsawn - Heavens Tear

Just a request from me here to some of you who are able to attend Nation War this week to spend a few of your tokens on one of these following items and share results:

Wooden Idol - Level 101 - 1 Token - +5% weapon damage / +2% Defense / +1% HP
Tin Flask - Level 102 - 2 Tokens - +10% weapon damage / +5% Defense / +2% HP
Porcelain Gourd - Level 103 - 3 Tokens - +18% weapon damage / +9% Defense / +4% HP
Iron Ridgeknife - Level 104 - 5 Tokens - +28% weapon damage / +14% Defense / +7% HP
Copper Paperweight - Level 105 - 8 Tokens - +40% weapon damage / +20% Defense / +10% HP


I need info on these items for my damage calculator.

Depending on their actual effect, their impact on combat might just be absolutely MASSIVE.


Why? Well, let's take a look at the (simplified) damage formula:

Damage = (attack from weapon + attack from shards in weapon + attack from rings and other equipment + character level) * attack multiplier (based on MAG/DEX/STR) * amplification debuffs * enemy resistance

The part in red is also known as your weapon attack. If this component gets increased by a percentage, your actual damage also gets increased by the same percentage.
And the level 105 wine gives +40%.


Now, we're not sure what ''weapon damage'' in the wine's description can mean, so this means these buffing items can do a few things (or something unknown as of yet):

1. They increase your weapon attack by X% = your damage output also gets increased by X%.
2. They increase your attack from weapon by X% = your damage output gets increased by just slightly less than the above, depending on your weapon refine, weapon shards and rings. You could still expect roughly 35% extra damage from the 105 wine with even the strongest rings, shards and weapon.
3. It only affects the weapon damage component that is present in skills = the difference would barely be noticeable, even on the level 105 wine.
Update 4. It works similarly to how attack bonuses from sparks/buffs work = a level 105 wine is the same as a Demon barb buff. This is the most likely option so far.

So let's just hope it's the fourth option, else PVP will pretty much revolve around these items.

Geckofreak - Sanctuary

unfortunately, its probably going to be the 1st or 2nd, definately not going to be the 3rd
its going to give the level 105 people a huge advantage, making the rest of us who decided to NOT CHEAT and use EXPLOITS to level up in no time at all. the buffs last an hour, and dont disapear on death, like morai wine buffs, and most probably wont disapear with purge either
these buffs will probably also stack with normal buffs. this is prehaps the worst thing ive noticed about this expansion. these level 105 people frankly dont deserve to even be allowed to continue playing because of their dishonest leveling.
these pots also are very cheap compared to other things you can buy with these tokens
these will be constantly abused by people who dont deserve an advantage, great job pwi!

Angel_Spawn - Sanctuary

Geckofreak - Sanctuary wrote: »

unfortunately, its probably going to be the 1st or 2nd, definately not going to be the 3rd
its going to give the level 105 people a huge advantage, making the rest of us who decided to NOT CHEAT and use EXPLOITS to level up in no time at all. the buffs last an hour, and dont disapear on death, like morai wine buffs, and most probably wont disapear with purge either
these buffs will probably also stack with normal buffs. this is prehaps the worst thing ive noticed about this expansion. these level 105 people frankly dont deserve to even be allowed to continue playing because of their dishonest leveling.
these pots also are very cheap compared to other things you can buy with these tokens
these will be constantly abused by people who dont deserve an advantage, great job pwi!

Agreed, and the morai wines (old) did disappear upon death, was annoying in Warsong if you die, need to use them again.

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands

I agree with them. I think they should have made those without level restriction.

Eoria - Harshlands

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands wrote: »

I agree with them. I think they should have made those without level restriction.

Or just not put them in in the first place. That works too.

Geckofreak - Sanctuary

i actually remember pwi said a long time ago that there would be repercussions for people who abused that exploit. i now see that this is what they meant. they were planning all along to reward them for their incredibly talented cheating!

Maelael - Heavens Tear

Yea I gotta go with the QQ here, this is a reward for gooning.

Wish I abused that now.

BerserkBeast - Sanctuary

I approve +1

Baby_pho - Heavens Tear

they shoulda done it the other way around 100 get 40%, 101 get 30%, 102 gets 20%, 104 gets 10%, 105 gets 5% dmg increase. ijs this do not make sense

Geckofreak - Sanctuary

i was asked to participate in that many times, i said no. when running normal fccs people got to 3rd boss and demanded to do it, i killed the boss to watch them rage, then leave. if anything, the pots should have a maximum level requirrement, and be something like this
Wooden Idol - Maximum Level 105 - 8 Token - +5% weapon damage / +2% Defense / +1% HP
Tin Flask - Maximum Level 104 - 5 Tokens - +10% weapon damage / +5% Defense / +2% HP
Porcelain Gourd - Maximum Level 103 - 3 Tokens - +18% weapon damage / +9% Defense / +4% HP
Iron Ridgeknife - Maximum Level 102 - 2 Tokens - +28% weapon damage / +14% Defense / +7% HP
Copper Paperweight - Maximum Level 101 - 1 Tokens - +40% weapon damage / +20% Defense / +10% HP

nvm got ninjad before i could finish post

thatguy123456

Baby_pho - Heavens Tear wrote: »

they shoulda done it the other way around 100 get 40%, 101 get 30%, 102 gets 20%, 104 gets 10%, 105 gets 5% dmg increase. ijs this do not make sense

There you go Pho.. trying to be logical b:chuckle..

Seriously.. i agree with the thread here.. this is rewarding those who abused FC getting 105, i am sure it wasn't intended this way but ultimately that is what this is until others can reach 105 with the new ways to get exp b:sweat

Geckofreak - Sanctuary

OH HOW ABOUT THIS! People who used exploits to level are given a permanant debuff that reduces their attack defense and hp, and exp subtracted from their level equivalent to what they recieved from their exploits. once they reach max again the debuff will be removed allowing them to have achieved a legit 105!

Zanryu - Dreamweaver

That wouldn't solve anything either... a reverse of the cap is just as horrible an idea as the current availability they have.

It would encourage people to stay at 101 and if you want to be competitive in PvP/PvE but have a goal of hitting 105 you're SoL. It's either be able to farm or pk efficiently and be unable to level up, or level up and have a huge disadvantage.

It would put everyone higher than 101 in the same boat as everyone under 105 right now, and there's 102s, 103s, and even 104s running around without having abused the goon glitch. Another solution is in order. Such as perhaps only boosting the damage and defense buffs by 2/1% respectively per level after 101. 105s would still get an extra 8/4% damage/defense over 101s but it wouldn't be nearly as game breaking or rewarding to them. It may not be the best solution but it's better than what you people seem to be supporting.

thatguy123456

Geckofreak - Sanctuary wrote: »

OH HOW ABOUT THIS! People who used exploits to level are given a permanant debuff that reduces their attack defense and hp, and exp subtracted from their level equivalent to what they recieved from their exploits. once they reach max again the debuff will be removed allowing them to have achieved a legit 105!

I suspect that would be well outside the capabilities of the devs... i mean come on.. they cant even fix most of the bugs still in the system.

Interesting idea though...

Baby_pho - Heavens Tear

tbh i just looked at the nation war supply reward than eas made and the price to make one of those pots for 105 is much higher than the 100s. so i doubt that people will even get it. but we will see when the price comes out and if the stuff are even tradeable.

Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973

No one is going to make these things. The 105 wine costs more than 8 times as much as a rapture crystal and can't be traded. Anyone with that much coin to spend will be saving all of their tokens for gear upgrades.

Sweet morai wine is pretty much just as good since it has 10%hp, 5% attack buff, 3% defense buff. People only paid 10k for that while it was available.

20% pdef buff is just 1/3 of a cleric buff and 40% weapon attack is a demon barb attack buff. Who would spend 8 rapture crystals on that? How often do you see people paying barbs 8 rapture crystals for a buff? It's ridiculous to QQ about something that no one is ever going to use.

Geckofreak - Sanctuary

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

No one is going to make these things. The 105 wine costs more than 8 times as much as a rapture crystal and can't be traded. Anyone with that much coin to spend will be saving all of their tokens for gear upgrades.

Sweet morai wine is pretty much just as good since it has 10%hp, 5% attack buff, 3% defense buff. People only paid 10k for that while it was available.

20% pdef buff is just 1/3 of a cleric buff and 40% weapon attack is a demon barb attack buff. Who would spend 8 rapture crystals on that? How often do you see people paying barbs 8 rapture crystals for a buff? It's ridiculous to QQ about something that no one is ever going to use.

dont disapear on death, and probably stack with regular buffs. raptures will go down incredibly fast, to the point of near worthlessness, these will be used

Geckofreak - Sanctuary

also just found this, ty sonimax
http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/16363107.jpg

Maelael - Heavens Tear

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

No one is going to make these things. The 105 wine costs more than 8 times as much as a rapture crystal and can't be traded. Anyone with that much coin to spend will be saving all of their tokens for gear upgrades.

Sweet morai wine is pretty much just as good since it has 10%hp, 5% attack buff, 3% defense buff. People only paid 10k for that while it was available.

20% pdef buff is just 1/3 of a cleric buff and 40% weapon attack is a demon barb attack buff. Who would spend 8 rapture crystals on that? How often do you see people paying barbs 8 rapture crystals for a buff? It's ridiculous to QQ about something that no one is ever going to use.

I'd make them. I know of many, many other people who would too. I would easily pay 5m a pop for the level 105 ones. Heck, I'd pay 10m, probably 15m. 10m for an hour of about +50% overall efficiency? Yes please. Hell people pay 8m for a plat charm that lasts an hour, this is way better.

The best solution though? Remove them. Had we not had gooning Id say keep em the way they are.

Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear

Nowitsawn - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Copper Paperweight - Level 105 - 8 Tokens - +40% weapon damage / +20% Defense / +10% HP

Guess thats my cue to start soloing phoenix valley.

Nowitsawn - Heavens Tear

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

No one is going to make these things. The 105 wine costs more than 8 times as much as a rapture crystal and can't be traded. Anyone with that much coin to spend will be saving all of their tokens for gear upgrades.

If you're pretty much maxed out on gear, what would you rather have?

-8 rapture crystals
-Kill everything that moves for 1 hour.

That is assuming these buffs are overpowered as hell.

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

and 40% weapon attack is a demon barb attack buff.

That is, if it actually increases weapon attack (or in reality, your damage multiplier like most other buffs do). The description says weapon damage, which is open for any interpretation.

I did forget about it being like a demon barb buff, though. This seems like the most likely outcome.

Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973

Maelael - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I'd make them. I know of many, many other people who would too. I would easily pay 5m a pop for the level 105 ones. Heck, I'd pay 10m, probably 15m. 10m for an hour of about +50% overall efficiency? Yes please. Hell people pay 8m for a plat charm that lasts an hour, this is way better.

The best solution though? Remove them. Had we not had gooning Id say keep em the way they are.

It's NOT +50% overall efficiency. 40% weapon attack is LESS than a sage barb attack buff.
The 105 wine is:

4/5 of a sage barb attack buff PLUS 1/3 of a cleric defense buff PLUS 1/3 of a barb's lvl 10 HP buff.
Go ahead and buy that for 15m. Even if I had an infinite supply of Supply Tokens I doubt I'd spend the 90k manufacturing fee for a buff I won't notice.

That is, if it actually increases weapon attack (or in reality, your damage multiplier like most other buffs do). The description says weapon damage, which is open for any interpretation.

I already know they use the same icon as the sweet morai wines which are just simple mundane buffs. These aren't super overpowered turbo kill destro beams, relax.

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

No one is going to make these things. The 105 wine costs more than 8 times as much as a rapture crystal and can't be traded. Anyone with that much coin to spend will be saving all of their tokens for gear upgrades.

Sweet morai wine is pretty much just as good since it has 10%hp, 5% attack buff, 3% defense buff. People only paid 10k for that while it was available.

20% pdef buff is just 1/3 of a cleric buff and 40% weapon attack is a demon barb attack buff. Who would spend 8 rapture crystals on that? How often do you see people paying barbs 8 rapture crystals for a buff? It's ridiculous to QQ about something that no one is ever going to use.

I sold timed flyers millions (flyers from the race event). People level 105 R9+12 JosD don't care about rapture they just looking for something to be more OP.

Would i pay 3m for a 7 days timed flyers? No, but some did.

Geckofreak - Sanctuary

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

It's NOT +50% overall efficiency. 40% weapon attack is LESS than a sage barb attack buff.
The 105 wine is:

4/5 of a sage barb attack buff PLUS 1/3 of a cleric defense buff PLUS 1/3 of a barb's lvl 10 HP buff.
Go ahead and buy that for 15m. Even if I had an infinite supply of Supply Tokens I doubt I'd spend the 90k manufacturing fee for a buff I won't notice.


I already know they use the same icon as the sweet morai wines which are just simple mundane buffs. These aren't super overpowered turbo kill destro beams, relax.

Asterelle, your talking crazy here. you just admitted with your knowledge that they do stack with barb buffs and cleric buffs. this means that they will amplify eachother, 40% attack on top of already barb buffed attack, not to mention they wont disapear after death, and last an hour, and cant be purged. im not saying that its cheap, but it is a huge advantage, + no one knows quantity of nation supply tokens youll recieve. it is an unessesary advantage that level 105 exploiters like yourself dont deserve to receive

Akan - Momaganon

40% from my g16+12 sword is 1200 more max physical attack (less than you get from sage barb buffs). A nice boost for being level 105, but I wouldn't call it overpowered, overall it only makes me hit less than 5% more with skills.

This is under the assumption the buff works like other attack buffs. The buffs might stack, but they do not amplify eachother (I hope).

Nowitsawn - Heavens Tear

Geckofreak - Sanctuary wrote: »

this means that they will amplify eachother, 40% attack on top of already barb buffed attack

That's not really how these buffs work. They simply add to your damage multiplier just like adding mag/str/dex does.

Having 0.4 (40%) added to this multiplier is exactly the same as adding 60 STR/DEX , or 40 MAG for casters (without the crit/def bonus ofc). This is how current attack buffs (barb buff, cleric buff, sparks) work.

Reliea - Sanctuary

Geckofreak - Sanctuary wrote: »

i actually remember pwi said a long time ago that there would be repercussions for people who abused that exploit. i now see that this is what they meant. they were planning all along to reward them for their incredibly talented cheating!

I really thought I was over this... but I'm not, this really cheese me off.
Bottom line though >.> I dunno how much these wines are going to cost. I don't know what real effect they will have. I don't even request them to be removed or changed...

I just want my old Morai wines back b:cry
What if I don't want to Nation war? What if I can't (due to timezone or whatnot)?
Morai wine was awesome because it was a cheap little buff that gave chips another use that anyone could get. I don't see a purpose in removing it more than trying to get people to do Nation wars, and that bugs me.

Nowitsawn - Heavens Tear

Reliea - Sanctuary wrote: »

I really thought I was over this... but I'm not, this really cheese me off.
Bottom line though >.> I dunno how much these wines are going to cost. I don't know what real effect they will have. I don't even request them to be removed or changed...

I just want my old Morai wines back b:cry
What if I don't want to Nation war? What if I can't (due to timezone or whatnot)?
Morai wine was awesome because it was a cheap little buff that gave chips another use that anyone could get. I don't see a purpose in removing it more than trying to get people to do Nation wars, and that bugs me.

Didn't morai wines also give an XP buff to certain mobs?

scarfaceclaw

You people do realise that since more 101+ levelling options were given people are actually legitimately reaching level 105?

Maelael - Heavens Tear

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

It's NOT +50% overall efficiency. 40% weapon attack is LESS than a sage barb attack buff.
The 105 wine is:

4/5 of a sage barb attack buff PLUS 1/3 of a cleric defense buff PLUS 1/3 of a barb's lvl 10 HP buff.
Go ahead and buy that for 15m. Even if I had an infinite supply of Supply Tokens I doubt I'd spend the 90k manufacturing fee for a buff I won't notice.


I already know they use the same icon as the sweet morai wines which are just simple mundane buffs. These aren't super overpowered turbo kill destro beams, relax.

+40% weapon damage / +20% Defense / +10% HP

Monkeying with PwCalc on base values, provided I did this right:

37.5% more damage / 16.3% Defenses / 1700 hp

Yea, I'd call that 50% overall. Even quartered damage - 9.3% more damage? Yes please. I'd love another 10% to even my base HP on my barb - 3k more hp is sexy, saves me from another tower hit.

10m for an hour unpurgeable? Done for TW. You're crazy this time Asty. It's not a destro beam but it is a damn good impact and the difference between a charm tick and a one shot for many.

scarfaceclaw wrote: »

You people do realise that since more 101+ levelling options were given people are actually legitimately reaching level 105?

Go level from 101-105 right now. In the next year. Tell me how you feel. It can be done legitimately but is not Fun, Easy, or Fast. It's downright discouraging to bust *** for an hour and get .1-.3%. Its part of the reason I made other toons and quit back in the day before hyper FFs were out there.

Reliea - Sanctuary

scarfaceclaw wrote: »

You people do realise that since more 101+ levelling options were given people are actually legitimately reaching level 105?

I have personally not seen anyone yet who I believe "legitimately" made 105. 104, maybe, but not 105 quite yet. Soon yes, but not right now.
If you are one of those people who is legitimately 105, I apologize profusely, but, you're The Tooth Fairy right now, and I'm all out of belief b:chuckle