Archers pointless? Or not?

iexze

So i'm still trying to choose my class, I love the gear and things but mid game are they worth it? What role do they play amongst FF/BH/FB/TW/TT?

For instance, Barbs are tanks, Sins are (A/D)PS, Cleric are healers, Psy I would say are DD, all those can easily gets spots in instances but what about archers? Where do they fit into everything?

Thanks in advance

Also would it be best to use fists as well or just bow?

Decus - Dreamweaver

Archers are a DD class. Along with the ability to lower the max HP of bosses, they can cheaply attain 5.0, and they also have a continuous aoe, so there are always places for them in PvE.

There is no reason not to stat for fists, aside from personal bias.

iexze

Definatly put a new perspective on the archer class, any guides around for 5aps? the current build I am working on is 1 str 4 dex does that suit fists? Define cheap? is that 500 mill instead of the billions? I saw a weapon going today for 475m .

Current plan is normal gear till 22 then moonlight bow which I got months ago and then go to tt60 and tt70 armor, then tt90 missing out tt80. Then either Nirv or rank at 100.

But do you mainly use bows or fists when soloing? Because if you were to use fists what would be the difference between an archer and a sin .

Slightly off topic but what is g16?

Thanks again

Facerolled - Raging Tide

Archers before sins and easy to achieve APS were the best class for DDing.

After this APS craze a fist/claw archer is still up there, just after the sin and comparable but slightly lower than a BM/barb.

5 aps is easy to achieve if you're going demon. All you need is -0.4 interval in total from all of your gear. There are numerous ways and combinations for demon, more limited for sage. Cheapest way would be :

Deicide ~30m
TM69 cape ~5m
R8 chest ~ 80m (also get 'free' bow and ring)
TT99 wrist ~15m
TT99 boots ~ 25m

All that with demon spark will grant you 5APS for under 200m.

A fist archer will never out DPS a sin of equal refinement and APS. Firstly, fists have lower base attack than daggers. Secondly, assassins' daggers benefit from their dex, giving them another 300%+ weapon attack while the fists benefit from str, of which the archer probably only has ~150, meaning only 100% weapon attack. Lastly, an assassin has wolf emblem (crit damage) and dagger mastery (75%-90% weapon attack vs ~60% from blaze). Most importantly though, assassins just solo better because they can have BP.

G16 = Nirvana third cast (the yellow one)

iexze

So once you get deicide's you hardly ever use the bow? The I planned on getting was WGTM 60 with 4 HP shards for that -.5 int.

What do you mean by "free bow", the bow at that level is dragonbow:nameless isn't it?

Regarding the g16, I guess I need to find a decent guide explaining recasts and stuff haha.

Facerolled - Raging Tide

No, you still use your bow in PvP and most mobs, you only really use fists on bosses that takes longer than one spark cycle with a bow/squad to kill.

By free bow I mean because I already factored in the cost of 200k reputation into the R8 chest, the cost of R8 bow is only 2m, essentially free.

iexze

Facerolled - Raging Tide wrote: »

No, you still use your bow in PvP and most mobs, you only really use fists on bosses that takes longer than one spark cycle with a bow/squad to kill.

By free bow I mean because I already factored in the cost of 200k reputation into the R8 chest, the cost of R8 bow is only 2m, essentially free.

Oh wow nice, the current cost of 200,000 rep is around 120m though 14k per 25 rep badge. As that is the only way I know of to obtain that amount of rep.

Facerolled - Raging Tide

iexze wrote: »

Oh wow nice, the current cost of 200,000 rep is around 120m though 14k per 25 rep badge. As that is the only way I know of to obtain that amount of rep.

It varies from server to server. Gold is pretty high right now, I was calculating on 1.2m/gold. I kind of assumed you weren't in a hurry since it doesn't seem like you're even level 100 yet.

iexze

Damn that's cheap! Heavens tear is 1.8-1.9m per gold :O, so like $150 to get end game gear if i CS + refining and socketing it so add another few hundred mill haha.

Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973

The advantage of a 5.0 archer is the versatility. Archer is the only class with:

-Magical and physical attacks
-5.0 damage
-a continuous AOE

While you don't make full use of this in Nirv it really shines at other times such as the Tigers Event, farming Warsong, AEU, and Trophy Mode. A 5.0 G16 claw actually does about the same DPS as a G15 zerk dagger.

I_sage_i - Harshlands

i want more people to reply to this because this is an intresting topic to me. TBH i dont see archers after lvl 100 in PVE instances i only see them in PVP or TW. i actually take that last statement back i do see a few archers for BH but thats pretty much it for pve. i liked archers alot and before they would be great but as of now i think it would better to start a sin for farming and then farm coin to build up a archer that u can use for fun .

also us wizzys has a continous AOE as well

EDIT:also about the rep thing do the math on it. on harshlands gold is currently 1.8m, rep badges 16Kea, and rep badge x50 pack from bontique 36 silver. if you do the math technialy you will get more rep badges if you buy gold and then buy from bontique then if u just buy from catshops.

truekossy

A well played archer is one of the most versatile PvE classes in the game not to mention deadly in PvP. However with a bad archer, you'll barely notice their presee or they'll make things harder on the squad.

Archers are still easily viable. Just most of the better ones play exclusively with friends now so you don't see them as much.

AnselTyme - Sanctuary

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

-Magical and physical attacks

Lies asty

Venos are phys based in fox form Wizzies have BT, clerics have plume shot, seekers have a lot of elemental damage

Vindis - Dreamweaver

Archers are archer-y. We use bows and stuff mostly. Main times aps would be great is for Nirvy and WBs.

r8 is enough to do pve stuff aside from reliable aps nirvy farming.

You will out dd most sins in FC before 99 if you have pro gears (due to lack of -int before then).

Claws is kinda a level 99/100+ thing. Totally don't use them before then. Srsly.

And you can get +str rings and/or +str engraved rings to add to your str total.

Generic Deicide Archer hastily thrown together in pwcalc

You could alternatively add a -int tome and use Gorenox Vanities. Or you could alternatively alternatively just be 5.0 sparked and something about Demon spark or something (Idk, never used a permaspark/demon toon before).

That aside, Never ever use Dragonbow. Use Broadland until r8.

Decus - Dreamweaver

AnselTyme - Sanctuary wrote: »

Lies asty

Venos are phys based in fox form Wizzies have BT, clerics have plume shot, seekers have a lot of elemental damage

I believe he meant the only class with all three.

iexze

Ok awesome, the answers given are great, but what are they like mid game? Clearly you need to CS for the end game gear @Vindis showed or farm for months, considering I have a job the latter would be impossible.

And are they wanted mid game? It seems if you have 5aps then end game will be good fun running FF, BH, TT ect.

On a side not I don't plan on PVP or TW much

truekossy

Archers do just fine at pretty much all levels.

Pre-59, they're great DD, can range tank with proper gear, and have multiple damage types. Between then and 89, they gain potential as AoE DDs in addition to the prior bit. 89-99, they can range tank most things that would be thrown at them as well as what's already stated. In fact, they're the only class that can be 5.0 pre-100 that it makes sense for.

iexze

Mm ok, what instances can archers solo?

truekossy

iexze wrote: »

Mm ok, what instances can archers solo?

Depends on your gear, skill, and genie.

Asterelle has already done harpy wraith solo so...

Dragoneast - Sanctuary

Facerolled - Raging Tide wrote: »

Archers before sins and easy to achieve APS were the best class for DDing.

After this APS craze a fist/claw archer is still up there, just after the sin and comparable but slightly lower than a BM/barb.

5 aps is easy to achieve if you're going demon. All you need is -0.4 interval in total from all of your gear. There are numerous ways and combinations for demon, more limited for sage. Cheapest way would be :

Deicide ~30m
TM69 cape ~5m
R8 chest ~ 80m (also get 'free' bow and ring)
TT99 wrist ~15m
TT99 boots ~ 25m

All that with demon spark will grant you 5APS for under 200m.

A fist archer will never out DPS a sin of equal refinement and APS. Firstly, fists have lower base attack than daggers. Secondly, assassins' daggers benefit from their dex, giving them another 300%+ weapon attack while the fists benefit from str, of which the archer probably only has ~150, meaning only 100% weapon attack. Lastly, an assassin has wolf emblem (crit damage) and dagger mastery (75%-90% weapon attack vs ~60% from blaze). Most importantly though, assassins just solo better because they can have BP.

G16 = Nirvana third cast (the yellow one)

and what about, instead of R8 bow, the 95 gold lunar bow? Heaven Shatterer? also -0.1 int and purge

truekossy

Dragoneast - Sanctuary wrote: »

and what about, instead of R8 bow, the 95 gold lunar bow? Heaven Shatterer? also -0.1 int and purge

It... has nothing to do with that post. Why exactly are you bringing it up as a response?

Sakubatou - Sanctuary

Dragoneast - Sanctuary wrote: »

and what about, instead of R8 bow, the 95 gold lunar bow? Heaven Shatterer? also -0.1 int and purge

The R8 bow heavily out dd's Heaven Shatterer. Purge is great for pvp but not a big deal in PvE except on a few bosses and in most cases its better to just have more dd. And -int on most weapons really doesn't matter much because the exponential growth of increased attack speed from -int isn't as large with the low base attack speed

Not to mention the HS bow will cost around 35m but the R8 bow is only 2m because you'll get r8 for the -int chest piece.

Although how Facerolled phrased things he made it sound like archer's using fists are only out dps'd by sins, when they're also out dps'd by BMs and barbs.

My view of this whole post. Archers are probably the best pvp class in the game, especially since Morai came out. They're not one of the "golden classes" that every squad seems to want (those being barb, cleric, bm, and sin), but they're probably the most preferred dd class for the reasons Asterelle listed. They also are LA where most other aoe/dph classes are "squishies" which means people have to worry about them less. They also clean up in events like tiger because they combine some of the hardest range dph and quick kills with 5 aps single target dps.

Facerolled - Raging Tide

Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »

Although how Facerolled phrased things he made it sound like archer's using fists are only out dps'd by sins, when they're also out dps'd by BMs and barbs.

Barbs yes, since they can use R9 pieces too, but BMs (assuming not self HFing), barely?

HexOmega - Dreamweaver

Dragoneast - Sanctuary wrote: »

and what about, instead of R8 bow, the 95 gold lunar bow? Heaven Shatterer? also -0.1 int and purge

my archer is lvl99, using that bow
i cant kill a duck in tw
cant wait to lvl to actually kill something

that bow also never purges when you need it to

truekossy

HexOmega - Dreamweaver wrote: »

my archer is lvl99, using that bow
i cant kill a duck in tw
cant wait to lvl to actually kill something

that bow also never purges when you need it to

Quack! Quack!

Sakubatou - Sanctuary

HexOmega - Dreamweaver wrote: »

i cant kill a duck in tw

New PWI class?

I assume a duck is the product of an archer and a cleric mating while wearing yellow fashion?

xmizukax

Why every1 forgets to mention that Archers are great AOE DDers and excellent for Delta ?

truekossy

xmizukax wrote: »

Why every1 forgets to mention that Archers are great AOE DDers and excellent for Delta ?

Hiya, person who hasn't read the thread but wants to toss their two cents in anyway.

_Shui - Harshlands

truekossy wrote: »

Hiya, person who hasn't read the thread but wants to toss their two cents in anyway.

Hiya person I don't care about.

Decus - Dreamweaver

_Shui - Harshlands wrote: »

Hiya person I don't care about.

Hiya person that should read the thread next time before posting in it complaining that people didn't mention something that was written on the first page.

truekossy

Decus - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Hiya person that should read the thread next time before posting in it complaining that people didn't mention something that was written on the first page.

*high fives* Well spoken, sir!