Badges and Signs

AliceAdams - Lost City

I have some issues with these that I'd like to discuss.

There are 7 badges/signs to acquire for weapons.

Of these 7, 3 of them are extremely easy to get.

~Speed will take 10 days if you run each day.
~Endurance comes from the Dragon Temple event, and you should be able to get them in one go, maybe 2. So that's 2 weeks max.
~Wisdom takes a while doing Dragon Quest 20. You need 50 copper dragon orders to get this. If you do 2 quests a day, that's less than a month. It's also extremely cheap.

The other 4... This is where I have issues.

~Dexterity only comes from Cube Crates. You have a 5% chance. Which means you're lucky to get one badge each month if you do it once per day. Now, you can always run through several times with alts and/or Directorate letters, but Fiance and I have done quite a few cube runs and I've bought a few extra crates. Out of about 15 crates, nothing but mirages. In fact, in all the time we've been doing cube runs, I think we've gotten one badge.

The last 3 come from City of Abominations.

~Strength and Courage are only available thru CoA. These require 100 Astral Orbs, or 50 if you're in the winning room. Seems easy enough, but if you aren't 5aps, good luck getting these. People like to repeatedly steal your kills. If you're lucky, you can kill one boss, and have to rely on the one shot mobs for an orb a piece. I think the most orbs I've acquired was during 2x, it was just over 60, and I wasn't in the winning room. Usually I'm lucky to get 35.

The final badge is Bravery. You can get these for about 20mil each through Tokens of Best Luck, which puts you at 200mil for the sign. You can get them through Anniversary Packs, but that's expensive and you have a worse chance (0.1%) than the dex from cube crates.
Or you can get them through CoA. To get this, you need 600 orbs, or 400 if you're in the winning room.
Seriously? Is 600 even possible? I mean, I realize with 5aps you can probably get to 400 in the 20-30 minutes we have, but 600? You'd have to kill one boss every minute, and there's a one minute respawn delay.

So my question, with a built in solution, is this:

Why can't these be offered any other way?

For example:
If it takes 6 orbs to make a Warsoul Tag, and 600 to make a bravery badge, why can't the badges be offered up for 100 tags at Jolly Old Jones? It'd take me about 4 months, averaging 6 tags a week to get one badge. But you know what? I'd feel better about that, than knowing I don't stand a chance of ever getting one at all.

Along this same line of thinking, why can't the Strength and Courage be offered for 20 tags each?

And the Dex badges... Really? Only through cube crates? Why not 100 celestial shards/50 insignias? It'd still take a while to get, because you only get a few of each from the weekly Tiger event.

There are so many other comparable ways to offer these 4 badges. Event Boutique, Achievement/Token shop, DQ Rewards, the above mentioned Celestial Exchange, a chance in the Lucid Chests, a chance in the packs from Tiger Event....

Any thoughts?b:surrender

Cathulion - Dreamweaver

The sage 90 weapons are a waste of time. Too much $$ and time to get, and by the time you get the money/farm the sign and badges you could have long been 100 and have r8 or TT99 weapons.

Bright side: Gives you something to do out of standard FC runs, and daily quests that get tiring and boring at times. But they are bound so won't bring much cash in.

Mor_Toran - Sanctuary

Cathulion - Dreamweaver wrote: »

The sage 90 weapons are a waste of time. Too much $$ and time to get, and by the time you get the money/farm the sign and badges you could have long been 100 and have r8 or TT99 weapons.

Bright side: Gives you something to do out of standard FC runs, and daily quests that get tiring and boring at times. But they are bound so won't bring much cash in.

+1

Really given the time and effort you have to put into getting these weaps, you can quite easily level too 100 and obtain R8 or TT99. (And with R8 you get even more gear with bonuses.)

Sarrafeline - Sanctuary

Cathulion - Dreamweaver wrote: »

The sage 90 weapons are a waste of time. Too much $$ and time to get, and by the time you get the money/farm the sign and badges you could have long been 100 and have r8 or TT99 weapons.

Bright side: Gives you something to do out of standard FC runs, and daily quests that get tiring and boring at times. But they are bound so won't bring much cash in.

Beamhoof Slicer. Enough said.

Cathulion - Dreamweaver

Sarrafeline - Sanctuary wrote: »

Beamhoof Slicer. Enough said.

I know that's good but by the time you have that, I'll long have had a caster with r8 with much better DD then that weapon. But hey if you have the spare money and willing to spend it on a wep that's only gonna be good for 9 lvl's then go for it.

AliceAdams - Lost City

See, there's another point though. If it's so worthless to so many people, then why can't it be a LITTLE easier/less time consuming to get.

Personally, I'm going for Hitman Legend.

Part of my issue is that if something is available at level 90, you shouldn't have to be 100+ to get it. Though to be fair, I'm somewhat considering Hitman for endgame, so it'd last me a looooong time.

But I've noticed this issue with a lot of gear in this game. It becomes available at a certain level, but takes 10-20 levels to get it. By the time you can get it, you need the next level gear.

It's kinda messed up.

Cotillion - Dreamweaver

AliceAdams - Lost City wrote: »

Personally, I'm going for Hitman Legend.
get it. Though to be fair, I'm somewhat considering Hitman for endgame, so it'd last me a looooong time.

With this gear, thats the end of the line though. You spend and work for it...then thats it. Its bound to you and can go no further. This is why its worthless to many.
Rank8, Nirvana, Lunar, rank9 can all be pushed further should you ever decide.
If you've settled for what many people dont even consider an endgame weapon and then later decide you want more...you have to start all over with something else. And will have the rank6 sitting in a bank collecting dust.

Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973

You can buy these badges for cheaper than the effort to farm.

Badges of Dexterity are 250k or so on my server (check catshops in cube).
Badges of Bravery were are sold for around 1.5m when anni packs are on sale.
Strength and Courage are also 1-1.5m on Wednesdays after CoA.

Total cost if you were to buy every badge is about 55m. I made that much from like 3 days of that Tellus Event.

AliceAdams - Lost City

I'm below 100, and we only completed the Tellus event twice. So no money for me, just 35mil exp, a mount, and 200 mirages.

So I'm looking for the cheapest option available.

Prices are a bit different on our server.

The cheapest I've seen a Sign of Bravery is 25mil. Dex is virtually unavailable because everyone hates Cube.

In fact, a lot of it is unavailable because everyone is in Frost all the time. So the stuff that, on other servers, is cheaper/easier to get, isn't on ours.

While I was typing this, I did manage to find a sign of dex for 2.5mil. I've honestly never seen it that cheap before.b:shocked

bought it while i could lol

Cathulion - Dreamweaver

AliceAdams - Lost City wrote: »

Personally, I'm going for Hitman Legend.

Part of my issue is that if something is available at level 90, you shouldn't have to be 100+ to get it. Though to be fair, I'm somewhat considering Hitman for endgame, so it'd last me a looooong time.
.

Those are very good daggers for lvl 90...but if you are planning to PVP/TW then you'll be killed by all classes in no time before killing anyone. They nowhere near measure up to endgame daggers....R8, Morai 101, Barrier Thorn Nirvana/cast 2, and G16. I have all 3(Not cast 2 dark death thorns) so I know for a fact how hard they truly hit. Planning on going g16 in the future. As for PVE with hitman Legend, most of the time you won't be accepted into pro nirvana squads with those. Not that they can't make you 5aps but...every1 knows them to be far off from endgame daggers damage wise. For nirvana, I started out using R8 daggers, then Morai 101, and now Barrier Thorn nirvana. I've come a far ways since lower level daggers and all I can say is...R8>lower lvl daggers, and it should be a minimum standard if possible at 100.

So I'm looking for the cheapest option available.
The cheapest I've seen a Sign of Bravery is 25mil. Dex is virtually unavailable because everyone hates Cube. I'm below 100, and we only completed the Tellus event twice. So no money for me, just 35mil exp, a mount, and 200 mirages.

I'd suggest Morai 101 daggers then 1st. Then build up. Cheapest option and a VERY hard hitting dagger. Sounds like Hitman Legend will be more then R8 for you then.

AliceAdams - Lost City

I'm sage and have no cape. I can't afford to lose any interval. Hitman is a MASSIVE upgrade from Hook n Thorn as far as damage, and it outdoes damage on Barrier Thorn Nirvana.

Base max damage on hitman is 1117, Dark death thorn is 1028. Dark death gets more per refine, so at +12 they are pretty close for max attack.

Dark death thorn is also hard to get with 0.1, which is why BTN is endgame for a lot of people. So if .05 int is not a big deal for you personally at endgame, hitman and dark death thorn are just about on par.

Though it's true that dark death thorn has a chance to get other stats added to it, I generally prefer to rely on guaranteed stats, vs. chance stats.

AliceAdams - Lost City

And also, the average sin goes demon. I went sage, and therefore get 15% more damage from my dagger devotion.

But I think we went slightly off topic, and should veer this back to making it easier to acquire these weapons.

I don't want this thread to get lockedb:shocked

Cathulion - Dreamweaver

If your wiling to go through the trouble and expenses of buying signs/badges for 25m a piece then by all means go ahead. And Barrier Thorn Nirvana is a minimum standard via 0.10 APS assurty for nirvy squads, the pro ones anyway(3man squads at least, but that reqs +10 as well). R8 you'll still need for APS chest anyway, I just don't see spending over what could be 100m for hitman legend, when R8 has 0.10 chest+good introductory daggers for endgame+ a REALLY good crit/phsy ring. But like the way I'm making a HA APS veno because I got the resources/money(with people hating and saying its pointless) go for it then if you got the resources/money for hitman.

Sage 15% extra isn't that much extra DD. It depends on your endgame build as well. Demons will have more crit outcrit'ing a sage sin and therefore doing more damage in certain builds(pure dex sins to the max)

augustfinknottle

AliceAdams - Lost City wrote: »

Base max damage on hitman is 1117, Dark death thorn is 1028. Dark death gets more per refine, so at +12 they are pretty close for max attack.

Except that's misleading. The considerably higher lower end of the G15 daggers makes up for the lower higher end, giving it and average of 856,5 x 836 on the hitman legend.

The difference on refines is actually not that big at +10 (+468 x +401), but they also count. Also, G15 has a high chance of getting Sac Attack or GoF (they add to 49%), another 49% of 3% or 4% crit, and a slim chance of 20 attack lvls (2%).

All of those add-ons add to your damage, and there's 100% chance of getting one of them. The only risk would be getting the -int.

At +10, even G13 evens out with hitman legend (thanks to that 1% crit), with 2 things going for it and making it preferable: more interval and a decent extra HP. The point you're making is null.

There is, however, one reason to have hitman legend: they give you a hipster look and an air of exclusivity.

Astraea - Raging Tide

AliceAdams - Lost City wrote: »

I'm sage and have no cape. I can't afford to lose any interval. Hitman is a MASSIVE upgrade from Hook n Thorn as far as damage, and it outdoes damage on Barrier Thorn Nirvana.

Base max damage on hitman is 1117, Dark death thorn is 1028. Dark death gets more per refine, so at +12 they are pretty close for max attack.

Dark death thorn is also hard to get with 0.1, which is why BTN is endgame for a lot of people. So if .05 int is not a big deal for you personally at endgame, hitman and dark death thorn are just about on par.

Though it's true that dark death thorn has a chance to get other stats added to it, I generally prefer to rely on guaranteed stats, vs. chance stats.

hitman legends = +154 max patk / +130 max p atk and 555-833 dmg range
833+154+130 = 1117, 1117 + 555 = 1672/2 = 836 average with 0 refines
DDT = random adds, 685-1028 dmg range so 1028+658 = 1686 / 2 = 843
BTN = 603-904 dmg range so 1507/2 = 753.5 average

Hitman Legend Refine
Physical Attack:
1: +18
2: +36
3: +54
4: +77
5: +103
6: +135
7: +179
8: +234
9: +306
10: +401
11: +522
12: +675

Barrier Thorn: Nirvana/Dark Death Thorn Refine
Physical Attack:
1: +21
2: +42
3: +64
4: +90
5: +120
6: +158
7: +208
8: +273
9: +358
10: +468
11: +609
12: +787

course my math could be terribly wrong, but 1 thing about the HL is that you would atleast require a tome to keep ~3.33 base aps unless you would rather be at 2.86

Cathulion - Dreamweaver

Hitman:

http://www.pwcalc.com/6bd10c5411159d8f

R8:

http://www.pwcalc.com/022e7ddfda029d3b

Morai 101(+60 slaying level=50% more DD, PWCalc doesn't add this to base damage, 10% better then R8):

http://www.pwcalc.com/c4e442e8c826b2f4

Barrier Thorn:

http://www.pwcalc.com/460ce7a1b05e00c3

If your still convinced Hitman is better after seeing all these unrefined..I have no idea what to say.

AliceAdams - Lost City

So in the end, at +12, HL lags behind by 119 (if I did that right), but I make up for it with the 15% from DD. Which again, if I did this right, will give me 226 ish. So I still end up doing 100 more on average with HL+Sage DD, as opposed to DDT+Demon DD?

Cathulion, I have to rule out R8, though it is superior in damage, I did mention I need the int. Same goes for Morai 101.

Cathulion - Dreamweaver

W/ Sage mastery+12:

Hitman:

http://www.pwcalc.com/a52874d8011cd9ec

R8:

http://www.pwcalc.com/285d431546805766

Morai 101(Again, Add x2 extra damage to base p attack for slaying level, makes it better then other 3 listed but in PVE only):

http://www.pwcalc.com/0d9346a4003dcc5e

Barrier Thorn Nirvana:

http://www.pwcalc.com/b3ec347dd3fb2085

I know APS is important too, so Barrier Thorn is the best choice really. Hitman will put you behind insanely.

AliceAdams - Lost City

Anyway *cough-ahem*

So if the weapons of the sages are so terrible, why so hard to get?

If they're available at 90, why does it seem like you HAVE to be 100+ to get them?

Would it really be game breaking to make them a little easier to get?

Cathulion - Dreamweaver

I'd wish they were easier to get myself. I don't know what PWChina was thinking when they made them. Perhaps for something to farm for that takes you all over the map and not 1 dungeon over and over and over like farming nirvana non stop solely for raps for barrier and dark death thorn?

Magna - Harshlands

Many such a thing exists in Perfect World - things that, perhaps, had a somewhat more rightful place in a much older version of the game. Once upon a time, Rank 8 was near-unattainable. Then reputation was added to the cash shop.

Sage weapons might have been okay a long time ago, but nowadays they are simply far exceeded through simple means, and have not been updated since.

AliceAdams - Lost City

I personally don't think any one item in a game should take months to acquire. Just looking at CoA, if you're not top of the food chain, you're maybe gonna get one badge a week.

To get all 30 badges outta there, you're looking at almost 8 months. And if you're REALLY lucky, you can get what you need from the cube in that time.

Everything else for this takes a couple of weeks. Isn't that MORE than enough time to spend on one thing?

augustfinknottle

Cathulion - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I'd wish they were easier to get myself. I don't know what PWChina was thinking when they made them. Perhaps for something to farm for that takes you all over the map and not 1 dungeon over and over and over like farming nirvana non stop solely for raps for barrier and dark death thorn?

When PW China made them, reputation was HARD to get and there was no such a thing as nirvana gears. Those weapons were AWESOME endgame weapons (being, as they are, better than TT99/100 and lunar). So R8 (200k reputation) was out of question, pretty much. At least for some good years. R6 (35k rep), however, was attainable. So here's what they were thinking: if this weapon is so great as to be comparable to R8, they better be hard to get as well.

Cube of fate was intended to be a massive daily thing, and the events were meant to be attended by a quite large number of people, making the badges more common. If you think about it, if there were lots of people actually doing all their dailies and going to all events, those weapons would be far more common/cheap than they are. Still hard to get, though.

They're named "weapons of the sages" because indeed you need to know lots about the game instances to farm them all by yourself.
____
You know what else was absurdly hard to get? G14 helm and boots from oht. Those were a joke, really. Still, they were the very best thing there was in game, so they better be hard to get, right? Except that they put them in packs and made them common.

Cathulion - Dreamweaver

augustfinknottle wrote: »

When PW China made them, reputation was HARD to get and there was no such a thing as nirvana gears. Those weapons were AWESOME endgame weapons (being, as they are, better than TT99/100 and lunar). So R8 (200k reputation) was out of question, pretty much. At least for some good years. R6 (35k rep), however, was attainable. So here's what they were thinking: if this weapon is so great as to be comparable to R8, they better be hard to get as well.

Cube of fate was intended to be a massive daily thing, and the events were meant to be attended by a quite large number of people, making the badges more common. If you think about it, if there were lots of people actually doing all their dailies and going to all events, those weapons would be far more common/cheap than they are. Still hard to get, though.

They're named "weapons of the sages" because indeed you need to know lots about the game instances to farm them all by yourself.
____
You know what else was absurdly hard to get? G14 helm and boots from oht. Those were a joke, really. Still, they were the very best thing there was in game, so they better be hard to get, right? Except that they put them in packs and made them common.

Couldn't have thought of a better explanation myself. So practically in this age and time, they need to be revamped for either how to obtain or they will always remain trash.

Astraea - Raging Tide

AliceAdams - Lost City wrote: »

Anyway *cough-ahem*

So if the weapons of the sages are so terrible, why so hard to get?

If they're available at 90, why does it seem like you HAVE to be 100+ to get them?

Would it really be game breaking to make them a little easier to get?

any1 correct me if im wrong but, Weapon of the Sages has been around since before R8 became obtainable, loooooong before morai and even before the fish expansion which gave Nirvana. before that most things werent really "easily obtainable" as it is now. and as said before those weaps Used to be good, but not anymore

Antigone - Momaganon

Hm...have to say many interesting things here why XY weapon is better than R6 but know what? I'm also collecting signs atm (started like 3 weeks ago and now only need 2 more wisdom badges) for my Wizard. AND tbh I don't care, if it would be better to obtain R8 instead of R6 weap because: I play for about 3 years now, I have 4 characters with R8, nearly every of my 100+ char has TT 99 or Nirvana but it's getting boring .
U charge zhen, buy r8, baaam! Done. But imo it's kinda fun to COLLECT...to FARM your weapon. Things are too easy nowadays, that's sad...noone has to work for super-duper-weaspons anymore ...

It is hard, it is expensive and I'm starting to hate DQs but I will be very proud when I can say: I (nearly...) farmed my whole weapon! Sure, you can also farm money for your R8 instead of zhenning but to collect something u cannot obtain via Cashshop (except one Badge with a very low %chance) is something special imo.

Ppl will say now: ya, blabla, nice. But Nirvana is also farmed and still better.
Right. But it's something special to have a weapon, not everyone has. I wont care about the damage. the 10% channeling are awesome and I have enough Chars to do (dmg-full) TWs ;p

my opinion....excuse my english it's late

Cathulion - Dreamweaver

If your planning on keeping it as a "trophy on a shelf" endgame then yeah it's worth getting. I've kept my R8 and Morai 101 daggers as trophies of what I once farmed so hard to get.

Rickioo - Archosaur

if your a smart shopper you can get the badges for the signs at a good price i have 6 of the 7 signs only one i missing is str and i need 2 more badges to get it i have about 32mil in it all b:laugh i going to redeem for **** and giggles on a psy ot wiz idk yet both are under lvl 90 anyway so no rush

Cotillion - Dreamweaver

AliceAdams - Lost City wrote: »

And also, the average sin goes demon. I went sage, and therefore get 15% more damage from my dagger devotion.

This is not accurate and does not work the way you believe. It is not a straight 15% boost over Demon. There are various topics about this in the Sin and other class subsections. I suggest you look into how this actually works sometime.

Ambisagrus - Lost City

rofl, 80 mil total it took to buy ALL of the badges and refine the Hitman Legend daggers on my sin to +7



I suggest to the OP, start saving cash or CS some, **** even merchant. Just do what it takes to BUY ALL THE ****ING BADGES.