Question about defense charms

Ebrithalia - Dreamweaver
Ebrithalia - Dreamweaver Posts: 441 Arc User
edited October 2012 in General Discussion
Was messing with the amount fo chi stone i made this x2 of card boss and im wondering something. does the physical defense charm apply to the first bleed tick of sot/aba new boss that usually kill people beside OP peeps and barbs.
Ebrithalia -Sage Seeker
Post edited by Ebrithalia - Dreamweaver on

Comments

  • kawaiijen
    kawaiijen Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    Was messing with the amount fo chi stone i made this x2 of card boss and im wondering something. does the physical defense charm apply to the first bleed tick of sot/aba new boss that usually kill people beside OP peeps and barbs.

    Just an fyi for clarification. The Bleed is based primarily on HP only only a smaller potion of that bleed damage comes from pdef. So no.

    Any class with over 13k hp or a well timed spark will survive the bleed just fine.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Ty Fon for the sig <3

    GM Support * Contact Me * Have a Suggestion?
  • Ebrithalia - Dreamweaver
    Ebrithalia - Dreamweaver Posts: 441 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    KawaiiJen wrote: »
    Just an fyi for clarification. The Bleed is based primarily on HP only only a smaller potion of that bleed damage comes from pdef. So no.

    Any class with over 13k hp or a well timed spark will survive the bleed just fine.

    Alright ty for info b:thanks
    Ebrithalia -Sage Seeker
  • SashaGray - Heavens Tear
    SashaGray - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,765 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    KawaiiJen wrote: »
    Just an fyi for clarification. The Bleed is based primarily on HP only only a smaller potion of that bleed damage comes from pdef. So no.

    Any class with over 13k hp or a well timed spark will survive the bleed just fine.

    this seems like speculation to me.

    you can test defense charms affecting bleed damage though. veno pets deal constant damage (not a range of possible damage) so a bleed DoT will be the same every time, if the only variable you change is using a def charm, the results will be conclusive.

    as to BH99 boss bleeds, I dont know how that is calculated, but would need more than indefinite HP:Pdef ratios to be convinced.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • kawaiijen
    kawaiijen Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    this seems like speculation to me.

    you can test defense charms affecting bleed damage though. veno pets deal constant damage (not a range of possible damage) so a bleed DoT will be the same every time, if the only variable you change is using a def charm, the results will be conclusive.

    as to BH99 boss bleeds, I dont know how that is calculated, but would need more than indefinite HP:Pdef ratios to be convinced.

    We went over this in a few threads a few months ago. I'll get the link and you can browse yourself. A sin confirmed it with specifics about the bleed damage.


    Edit:
    Synthetic results:
    -Sin with hp buff (12.5k roughly) with different buffs to change defenses :
    def : 5.4k => 12k bleed
    def : 8.8k => 9.7k bleed and 2.8k 2nd tick
    def : 12.3k => 7.8k bleed, 2.2k 2nd tick
    def : 12.7k (+10 def lvl) => 7.6k bleed, 2.1k 2nd tick (confirmed that as expected from a dot, def lvl doesn't matter)
    def : 12.6k => 6.2k bleed, 1.3k 2nd tick

    -bm without hp buff, 10.5k hp
    def : 11.8k => 12.6k bleed (gotten obvious here)
    def : 24k (marrow, so mag def crushed) => 7.3k bleed

    -relogged sin to get hp buff off, 9.3k hp
    def : 16.7k => bleed 12.2k

    -for lolz, logged barb, 26k hp
    def : 14k => 2.5k bleed
    def : 18k => 1.8k bleed

    Main thread here.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Ty Fon for the sig <3

    GM Support * Contact Me * Have a Suggestion?
  • SashaGray - Heavens Tear
    SashaGray - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,765 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    KawaiiJen wrote: »
    We went over this in a few threads a few months ago. I'll get the link and you can browse yourself. A sin confirmed it with specifics about the bleed damage.


    Edit:



    Main thread here.

    i still find those test results dubious, we already know that bleed is affected by p.def, but i still dont buy that its affected by HP.

    its just as likely that its attack pattern is affected by class, like the WS wood boss, or some of the world bosses, iirc the one by snowy has a particular aversion to venos.

    other things that could affect the attack power might include the range at which it is agrod, the type and power of the initial attack, whether there is some kind of lure involved, etc...
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • kawaiijen
    kawaiijen Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    i still find those test results dubious, we already know that bleed is affected by p.def, but i still dont buy that its affected by HP.

    its just as likely that its attack pattern is affected by class, like the WS wood boss, or some of the world bosses, iirc the one by snowy has a particular aversion to venos.

    other things that could affect the attack power might include the range at which it is agrod, the type and power of the initial attack, whether there is some kind of lure involved, etc...

    I can test it via bloodvow then.

    Ill attack it and get the bleed.

    Check bleed Tick damage

    Reset then bloodvow and have a reduced hp value and check bleed again.

    Only value changing will be HP.

    I can then do the same test with a Barb to buff me and then compare it with cleric / bm buffs separately if you want.

    I'm pretty sure it's this way because others were puzzled about how barbs in TT90 green armor could tank it just fine but op sins in better gear were getting 1 shot.

    I think it was a way to try and bring others classes back into this game. (Since it was pretty much and still pretty much is dominated by aps)

    Edit for side note: This bleed affected by HP is ONLY for the new SoT/Abba bosses. Regular bleed DoTs are purely Pdef affected.

    Unique effects of the new bleed. It also gives an explosion buff for 1.5~2 sparks. The bleed stays on you even AFTER you are dead.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Ty Fon for the sig <3

    GM Support * Contact Me * Have a Suggestion?
  • Olbaze - Sanctuary
    Olbaze - Sanctuary Posts: 4,242 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    i still find those test results dubious, we already know that bleed is affected by p.def, but i still dont buy that its affected by HP.

    its just as likely that its attack pattern is affected by class, like the WS wood boss, or some of the world bosses, iirc the one by snowy has a particular aversion to venos.

    other things that could affect the attack power might include the range at which it is agrod, the type and power of the initial attack, whether there is some kind of lure involved, etc...

    Um...

    The first set of sin-only numbers shows that the bleed decreases with more pdef.

    Then how else would you explain what happened in the last test? It's got the lowest HP and the highest pdef and also the highest bleed damage.
    I am Olba. Not Ol, not Baze nor Blaze. And even less would I go by Olblaze. Please, take a second to read a person's username.
    If you see b:cute be sure to take a second, calm look at anything I said.
  • Empu - Sanctuary
    Empu - Sanctuary Posts: 1,154 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    KawaiiJen wrote: »
    Edit for side note: This bleed affected by HP is ONLY for the new SoT/Abba bosses. Regular bleed DoTs are purely Pdef affected.

    There is also the boss in AEU where you have to hop crystals that has the same bleed.
    Um...

    The first set of sin-only numbers shows that the bleed decreases with more pdef.

    Then how else would you explain what happened in the last test? It's got the lowest HP and the highest pdef and also the highest bleed damage.

    What Sasha said is simply "you can never be sure that you didn't change another factor without knowing". Ofc, it is true that something like the angle or distance I used knifethrow from, it critting, zerking or zerk+critting could affect the bleed attack and thus leading to false conclusions. It's just not very likely especially since all DoT in game are on fixed amounts off damage.

    From the testing I did, off which I put the synthetic results, I formulated the hypothesis that the bleed is majorly dependant on HP and also slightly on physical defence. It's easier to consider it as valid till proven otherwise then to consider it false till having a 100% certainty which you won't have. Some ppl just have problems with induction based on testing. They are all free to do their own testing or research.

    Ofc, I did run in multiple times with same buffs to see if the bleed would change. Tried other things, like range as KawaiiJen (and some others) mentioned that she didn't get hit by the bleed when she pulled 1st time (or something like that). I didn't feel the need to put that all down, as the main purpose was to give an idea off what was needed to tank the bosses with all the big QQ about their difficulty at the start. I think the testing I did was accurate enough to be rather certain off the conclusion I draw from it. And I didn't have anyone stating otherwise yet.
  • DemansPsy - Lost City
    DemansPsy - Lost City Posts: 359 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    If it helps, iv been hit on my psy (16k hp 7k p def barb and ep buff) for only like 2-3k when boss uses bleed on me, but on my wiz (12.5k hp 12k p def barb and ep buff) for about 6-7k damage from first bleed tick
    full 3r9 +11/12 (still using immac shards though) w/o CSing, leveled to 105 spaming pv, yes i have no life =D
  • Jaabg - Sanctuary
    Jaabg - Sanctuary Posts: 2,256 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    And I didn't have anyone stating otherwise yet.

    You know if you tickle the boss under the right back foot, behind his middle toe, you can tame the boss b:avoid.
  • truekossy
    truekossy Posts: 7,021 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    You know if you tickle the boss under the right back foot, behind his middle toe, you can tame the boss b:avoid.

    False! It's behind the far left toe noob!!!1"1!!1!11shiftoneone
  • Cotillion - Dreamweaver
    Cotillion - Dreamweaver Posts: 671 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    its just as likely that its attack pattern is affected by class, like the WS wood boss, or some of the world bosses, iirc the one by snowy has a particular aversion to venos.
    You lost me on this one.....
    What class does the WS Wood boss have a particular 'hate' for?
    I have never noticed anything in the years I been playing of any boss that has been programmed with consistant special hatred for one class over another. Random aggro bosses are just that.....random.
  • Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973
    Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973 Posts: 7,881 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    You lost me on this one.....
    What class does the WS Wood boss have a particular 'hate' for?
    I have never noticed anything in the years I been playing of any boss that has been programmed with consistant special hatred for one class over another. Random aggro bosses are just that.....random.

    Cerberean Sentinel is the veno killer. I haven't noticed anything special about that wood boss though.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Refining Simulator - aster.ohmydays.net/pw/refiningsimulator.html (don't use IE)
    Genie Calculator - aster.ohmydays.net/pw/geniecalculator.html - (don't use IE)
    Socket Calculator - aster.ohmydays.net/pw/socketcalculator.html
  • Eoria - Harshlands
    Eoria - Harshlands Posts: 6,118 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    You lost me on this one.....
    What class does the WS Wood boss have a particular 'hate' for?
    I have never noticed anything in the years I been playing of any boss that has been programmed with consistant special hatred for one class over another. Random aggro bosses are just that.....random.

    Vile version of wood Warsong boss pretty much always stuns the cleric.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    "subtraction has the butt of an angel" - Paulrogers
    I <3 Subtraction.
    /blatant sig copy is blatant

    105/105/105 obtained! b:cute