Sweet Remembrance extended to 10/16

SashaGray - Heavens Tear

Hexalot - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Um... you're missing the fact that low population servers are having trouble finishing the event. And if you don't finish the event you don't get the cash reward.

Also... much of your post assumes that a large segment of the population is taking part in the event. If so to be honest this event would be finished in 30 minutes or less. But due to the length of time it takes on most servers (DW is has a relatively good population but it takes an hour at least to finish on average), that implies that it's the same people doing it over and over. I can understand that since Nirvy probably takes priority for many and in the early days of this event it was even worse (2+ hours to finish). But this restricts the wealth to a relatively small segment of the players. So no wide spread wealth typically means inflation is kept in check. And I certainly don't see prices rising everywhere. Supply is so high in the most popular mats available that merchants have little room to raise prices. Same for tokens.

As for Gold... it's alway high during x2 as farmers look to convert their coins. But I notice that (at least on my server where it's about 1.4 mil) it's no where near the 1.9 million mark it reached in previous 2x events. Less people playing now compared to then perhaps ?

Maybe so. But it just shows the economy isn't so out of control that extended events like sweet remembrance will do untold damage.

I'm not missing the point that low population servers arent getting it done, though, i think they figured it out too since there arent any new QQ threads about it. LC and HL seem to be having trouble because of the placement of the prize NPC and all the uber-pro pk0rz.

if there is no money entering the economy from the event then the economic impact is zero, I just thought that was so obvious it didn't merit mentioning.

to your next point, again, micro v. macro economic, it doesnt matter if there are only 10 people doing the event, if they finish it, all that coin enters into the economy no matter how many people are putting it in. that seems really obvious too.

and your third point on gold prices misses the mark as well. market corrections arent instantaneous. the anticipated gold spike during 2x occurs because... its anticipated. the valuation of gold relative to coin is perception based, and perspectives dont change overnight, they shift. there is a spike during 2x because there is already a perspective in place and the spike conforms to that perspective, its not a deviation from it.

there can be artificially stimulated gold spikes, such as chest of coins forcing gold to 200k, 1 pack for 1 gold forcing gold to 465k etc. but the effect of a huge distributed cash infusion will be more gradual and curve-like, where as the prior two examples will be more spike-like.

my point was on relative valuation of various commodities as they relate to eachother.

Hexalot - Dreamweaver

SashaGray - Heavens Tear wrote: »

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to your next point, again, micro v. macro economic, it doesnt matter if there are only 10 people doing the event, if they finish it, all that coin enters into the economy no matter how many people are putting it in. that seems really obvious too.

No it's not. Take the economy on a larger scale such as a country. If the multimillionaires and billionaires are getter richer while everyone else stays the same... does inflation in that country go up ?

Nope. That's because the spending patterns of that segment of the population hardly changes with more money. Drop a huge load of money in the working population on the other hand and you may have trouble.

Of course that's just speculation on my part on who the people are doing the event or how they may be spending their coins. But then you're doing a lot of speculating in this thread too. Neither of us can really tell how the event is currently impacting the economy. There are just no clear signs beyond what you would expect from extended double drops.

I'm guessing that the extra coin will be absorbed just like everything else... such as people converting to gold and buying directly from the boutique for personal reasons (flyers, fash) without looking to sell those items immediately. Or people may sit on the extra coins waiting on a Orb sale that may not come until Christmas thereby keeping those extra funds out of the economy until it can be easily absorbed.

Sorry but I'm just not seeing where this panic (not that I'm saying you are panicking or anything) about the event stretching another week is coming from.

SashaGray - Heavens Tear

Hexalot - Dreamweaver wrote: »

No it's not. Take the economy on a larger scale such as a country. If the multimillionaires and billionaires are getter richer while everyone else stays the same... does inflation in that country go up ?

Nope. That's because the spending patterns of that segment of the population hardly changes with more money. Drop a huge load of money in the working population on the other hand and you may have trouble.

Of course that's just speculation on my part on who the people are doing the event or how they may be spending their coins. But then you're doing a lot of speculating in this thread too. Neither of us can really tell how the event is currently impacting the economy. There are just no clear signs beyond what you would expect from extended double drops.

I'm guessing that the extra coin will be absorbed just like everything else... such as people converting to gold and buying directly from the boutique for personal reasons (flyers, fash) without looking to sell those items immediately. Or people may sit on the extra coins waiting on a Orb sale that may not come until Christmas thereby keeping those extra funds out of the economy until it can be easily absorbed.

Sorry but I'm just not seeing where this panic (not that I'm saying you are panicking or anything) about the event stretching another week is coming from.

Im not panicking, im just describing the effects, and why the effects are not felt as immediately as some other economic monkeying around has been. I cant be specific because obviously i dont know how much money or how many members there are in each servers economy, and I did leave open the possibility that the injection of ~13 billion coins into the economy through the 4 week course of the event quite possibly could be absorbed with little to no long lasting effects.

Your hypothetical presents an impossibility. wealthy people cant get wealthier while other people remain the same. money has a finite though adjustable supply. if wealthy people increase their share of the wealth, the share of everyone else necessarily goes down.

Cathulion - Dreamweaver

I don't see why people are complaining about this event...THIS IS A GAME, NOT REAL LIFE! Real life economy and game economies should never be put in the same category. Enjoy every opportunity PW devs give us to make a lot of coins, stop whining about how its going to effect a NON-realistic, virtual world's economy negatively like its going to be the end of the world. Token prices on my server are the same as before event so whats the big deal?

Token prices=average=all good

SpiritDivine - Sanctuary wrote: »

Just a hint that one of your most popular and succesful events was the Aurora Agent. Should bring that one back for a week too.

That's a big no-no for what the caused. They more then doubled token prices for days on end and made everything so much more expensive to do.

Maelael - Heavens Tear

Cathulion - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I don't see why people are complaining about this event...THIS IS A GAME, NOT REAL LIFE! Real life economy and game economies should never be put in the same category. Enjoy every opportunity PW devs give us to make a lot of coins, stop whining about how its going to effect a NON-realistic, virtual world's economy negatively like its going to be the end of the world. Token prices on my server are the same as before event so whats the big deal?

Token prices=average=all good



That's a big no-no for what the caused. They more then doubled token prices for days on end and mad everything so much more expensive to do.

Actually, I want my favorite game to thrive in the long term.

This affects you negatively as well, even though you cannot, or choose not to perceive or understand it.

Token prices aren't the only factor here. You need to move past it - all of your gear and goings on does not come from tokens.

Cathulion - Dreamweaver

Universally, we all use crabs, herbs, or both. I don't see how a event giving 50m+ so freely is going to affect anything's value. It's not like giving away items cheaply needed for crafting something and reducing its value. As long as we can afford crabs and herbs, and tokens on a not so expensive scale the economy is good.

Maelael - Heavens Tear

Cathulion - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Universally, we all use crabs, herbs, or both. I don't see how a event giving 50m+ so freely is going to affect anything's value. It's not like giving away items cheaply needed for crafting something and reducing its value. As long as we can afford crabs and herbs, and tokens on a not so expensive scale the economy is good.

You seem to be grasping things better than Bill and Ted's Hexellent Adventure into imagination land.

You need to look at it from the perspective Sasha has related. It's more than 50m. You gotta look at it on a full server scale.

Lets say I merch tokens. I want to buy more Gold, or some pack items (or TT items). Because people have more money to spend server wide - the price of Gold and TT items increases. Therefore, I raise my prices to make a greater Profit (if you looked up profit, good on you) so I can afford these items. This, inflates the prices tokens.

Lets say I open packs to try for some Pack Items I really want. I have not gotten the items I want. Because people have more money to spend, pack items have gone up in price, and so has gold. So in order to get that pack item I want, or buy more gold for packs, I sell my tokens at higher price.

The bottom line is, fake or real economy, when you influx more money (coin in this case) into the population, prices increase.

In game - Free money creates higher prices in two major ways:

1. People are able to afford higher priced items, and the supply goes down of the cheap ones first. This means the higher priced versions of the same item will sell because people can afford it, creating perceived worth to be higher.

2. People will enter into bidding wars, or see people offering more money for items (because they can now afford it), and raise their prices.

Example:

Vit Stones cost 45-50m during typical pack sales.

During really good pack sales, these drop to 40 or less.

During this pack sale, they are 42-50.

Before the anniversary, there were about 15-20 of the Vit stones on the market. When the sale hit, prices dropped to 38-42 - stay about 15-20 on the market. When the Anniversary event started getting going, along with gold jumping 100k, the 38-42m vit stones disappeared in two days, and all that was left was the 45-50m stones - and there was only about 5 I could find.

I actually had several people remark about how they bought some (and DoDs) at 45-50m. About half of them due to the profit from the event.

(Only reason I know this so well was because I was getting them for my Barb, and kept merching them.)


In real life - Free money (aka, raises really) creates higher prices in two major ways:

1. People are able to afford more. This means companies who want to make more money can charge more and increase profit, because people can now afford those items at that price.

2. To offset paying their employees more, companies have to raise prices.

Example: Look up why Subway in SF had to stop selling $5 footlongs due to the minimum wage in the city going up. People still ate just as much at Subway out there (A friend of mine owns one in SF). People made more money, they could afford it.


Simplified none of this is rocket science or really requires a education in economics. No one is truly making money from the event, the increase in prices of items will absorb that away from you over time. You may think you're in the money now, but a few weeks after the event is over, and token/gold/pack item prices stay the same (or go up) because people have the extra money from the event to spend on it and the supply of them has gone down, you may understand why.

Really, I bet Sasha would agree - if all those money events stopped giving out coin, you'd see prices of everything drop in price over time except for the fixed price items (like Tokens and Mirages wont go below 10k.). It's all about cash or coin influx.

SashaGray - Heavens Tear

exactly Maelael, the value of a coin is directly proportionate to the total coins in the economy. other items which are determined to have a value will be valued as a microscopic percentage of the total coins in the economy.

thats why the price of gold (real gold, not PWI gold) has gone up so much recently. its not because gold has become more valuable, its because money has become less valuable, the value of gold is fixed. (unless for some reason its value is increased because a new property of gold is discovered, like it cures cancer or stops aging)

there is no such thing as a fake economy, its a real economy, in a virtual world. the fake-ness of the world doesnt make the economy within that world fake.

Annalyse - Heavens Tear

Honestly, I don't see why everyone is so concerned about the amount of money this event is giving out. I run it every night and so far, it is giving me no more profit than running my 5 BH100s every day. Sure, I had 12 mil a couple days, but I also had some days with no money at all, and a few with just 1 mil. And it is annoying enough to do that most people I know have stopping doing the event altogether.

VenusArmani - Dreamweaver

What's far more damaging is the BH coin rewards and the perfect tokens of best luck printing out 10 million big notes every day. These events are brief and are only adding a small amount of coin since there are only a handful of people on each server getting any kind of coin per day. Not to mention the event isn't going to last forever. Some servers haven't even completed it everyday.

AliceAdams - Lost City

For the record...

Our server has not yet completed the event. You don't see a lot of QQ about it because there appears to be less than a dozen people from LC that visit the forums, and I've already created a thread about it.

We have a general plan of hoarding candies til the 16th. Most of the people on our server, after several weeks, still do not know about the event.

As far as I know, there's less than 20 people that do the event, and I only know of about 5 or 6 of us that are hoarding.

I can only hope that after all of this hassle and frustration, the PKers stay away. After all of this, we deserve to be left alone to complete the event and get our rewards.

scarfaceclaw

OK b4 i go and use the 50 envelopes can anyone tell me what the BM flyer is you can get for exchanging 50 red envelopes?

EDIT:

NVM ive been told its timed anyway. What genius though of that ....

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Runemine - Dreamweaver

Spam bot it threads now.......

I personally love the event DW finishes it within 1 hour every day and it is decent money for a hours work.

augustfinknottle

Please, please, please, fo not extend it any longer. It's getting impossible to do anything squad-related when that event is taking place, and that's pretty much all the time I have to farm my Basic Badges in warsong.

AliceAdams - Lost City

Actually, if we aren't going to be given any other way to drop off excess red envelopes, we probably NEED another extension.

We FINALLY completed the event Sunday. And we were completely wiped out by 2 PKers. A lot of us still have hundreds of envelopes, and barely got anything Sunday. We are trying to complete it again tonight, but... I just don't know if we can. Not before maintenance anyway.

There were a lot of people that didn't get to participate in the completion, and they deserve something for their hard work in farming candies.

I've submitted a ticket with screenshots of the Pkers, and requested they spawn the npc for a day. No response yet.

Cathulion - Dreamweaver

AliceAdams - Lost City wrote: »

Actually, if we aren't going to be given any other way to drop off excess red envelopes, we probably NEED another extension.

We FINALLY completed the event Sunday. And we were completely wiped out by 2 PKers. A lot of us still have hundreds of envelopes, and barely got anything Sunday. We are trying to complete it again tonight, but... I just don't know if we can. Not before maintenance anyway.

There were a lot of people that didn't get to participate in the completion, and they deserve something for their hard work in farming candies.

I've submitted a ticket with screenshots of the Pkers, and requested they spawn the npc for a day. No response yet.

Doubt that idea would work. You'd have no-life bored to death players PK'ing people at NPC all day. Momma Beast needs to be relocated in a safe zone.

xldistastelx

Cathulion - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Doubt that idea would work. You'd have no-life bored to death players PK'ing people at NPC all day. Momma Beast needs to be relocated in a safe zone.

They could always spawn it in safe zone. It's pretty easy to move an NPC.

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands

AliceAdams - Lost City wrote: »

Actually, if we aren't going to be given any other way to drop off excess red envelopes, we probably NEED another extension.

We FINALLY completed the event Sunday. And we were completely wiped out by 2 PKers. A lot of us still have hundreds of envelopes, and barely got anything Sunday. We are trying to complete it again tonight, but... I just don't know if we can. Not before maintenance anyway.

There were a lot of people that didn't get to participate in the completion, and they deserve something for their hard work in farming candies.

I've submitted a ticket with screenshots of the Pkers, and requested they spawn the npc for a day. No response yet.

Same thing happened on HL but was more than 2 people some archer 3rd R9 recast doing barrage on the npc with his little friends, nothing to do. (tbh all of you wasn't able to take down 2 persons? You would have cry on HL it's more than that)

I just hope they will learn from that huge mistake and don't ever put a npc out safe zone.

TommyElfGuy - Sanctuary

LOVE THIS EVENT ATTENED IT EVERY NIGHT THANKS PWI.DONT WANNA SEE IT END b:chuckle

Savini - Lost City

Thanks for the extension, guys (and gals). b:thanks
We didn't get much out of it tonight due to the constant PK's, (most of us were lucky to even click the motherbeast before death), but we were atleast able to gather and save up enough to summon it. Also, I have to give props to Alice, Liicos, Madori, Wang, and everyone else who worked their bottoms off to organize and collect enough candy this week for tonight's event. There may not have been alot of us, but we did it. b:pleased