5.0 +11 Or 4.0 +10

_Synergy_ - Heavens Tear

Alright so, my Bm is 96 atm and I'm thinking of his endagme gear.
Now since I used to be an aps barb I already have 5.0 Gear and Windpour +10 and G13 Nirvy Axes as of now.

BM at 100 withoutspending any money atm: http://pwcalc.com/9941034a399dc76c

In couple of months I will have 500m cash so first I was thinking of getting:

First Option:
+11 claws, Demon HF and demon fist mastery
http://pwcalc.com/9941034a399dc76c

Second Option:
Demon HF and Upgrade claws from G13 +7 to G16 +10 and I will be 4.0 sparked
http://pwcalc.com/73942495e1a0ca16

What I want to know is how much can the G16+10 4.0 out DD the G13 +11 5.0 by?
Oh can can anyone update my second option lol, I tried putting the -int on pwcalc but I couldn't get to 4.0 lol

Edit: Anyone from HT can confirm the price of +11 orb? I heard it's around 180M? Or I was thinking of getting like 4 10* Orbs and a tisha stone and try to get +11 with tisha and use +10 orb to get it back to +10 but I will only get 4 tries.

I_am_noob - Dreamweaver

well you will be doing more dmg as g16 4aps than 5aps g13
thing is that once you get used to 5 aps chi gain from 4 aps is realy slow
but best is to go for g16 still and in time get pan gu tome
oh and whit 500mil i dont think you can +10 your weapon and get demon HF..well not on my server anyway transfering refines is allso not option becos it is 2 exspensiv
so dont refine you windpor if you plan to go g16 and dont limit your self to g13 just becos you might get +10 on them

_Synergy_ - Heavens Tear

Yeah, atm got Windpour +10

And for 5.0 G16 that won't happen on my BM since I will stop merchanting once I get enough cash. Need to focus on RL as well.

Basically comparing 4.0 G16 +10 with 5.0 Windpour +11

I_am_noob - Dreamweaver

still g16 4 aps wins....when i went g16 from g13+10 it was abouth 70% boost in dmg...cant say for sure whitout doing math but abouth thast maybe a bit more...as for axe you went aps...so axe id not your main thing anymore

SashaGray - Heavens Tear

g13 nirvana is about 100 p.attack increase over deicede and the same refine bonus at deicide

g16 is about 300 p.attack increase over g13 nirvana + 40 attack levels, and a better refine bonus ( not a phenomenally better bonus (42 at +12 i think but still a better bonus)

so figure a 40% damage increase on top of the better base damage from claws, maybe even more depending on adds.

even if you dont get int on you g16s, which you should definitly roll untill you do.

the damage from 4aps g16 per hit will be higher than g13 per hit x 1.25 (or is it 1.20?)

either way your DPS will be much higher with g16 than g13 under any scenario

Maelael - Heavens Tear

_Synergy_ - Heavens Tear wrote: »

What I want to know is how much can the G16+10 4.0 out DD the G13 +11 5.0 by?
Oh can can anyone update my second option lol, I tried putting the -int on pwcalc but I couldn't get to 4.0 lol

A lot. Factor in the 40 attack levels.

I'm gonna be lazy and just do your top end.
Windpour +11 @ 5aps: 107885
G16 +10 @ 4aps: 126126

~17% better dps. From +10 windpour its a 27% improvement.

Fixed:
http://pwcalc.com/9c6557088add0700

_Synergy_ - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Edit: Anyone from HT can confirm the price of +11 orb? I heard it's around 180M? Or I was thinking of getting like 4 10* Orbs and a tisha stone and try to get +11 with tisha and use +10 orb to get it back to +10 but I will only get 4 tries.

At best prices during the sales you're looking at ~155m just to make the 11* from gold purchased or people selling at/near cost. However, that is even further unrealistic as gold tends to jump during dorb sales, so youre prolly looking at 165-170. If you got super lucky with fire packs you could prolly drop that like 20-30m, maybe more.

Now the part where I lul'ed was that given that Dorb prices are in the 175-200k range for 1*, and 42-45m range for 10* (prolly more, I havent checked in week or so when prices go to nuts land - I shoulda bought the 2 I saw someone WC at 40m), you're lookin at 245m-275m for 11*. You can't trust the buy prices, its usually lowballer merchs, and you'd be lucky to get 100 at 150k from a buy shop as of last week, let alone 1155.

Even at average prices shortly after sales, with 10* being 40m, and 1* staying in the 125k-150k range, you're lookin at 185-213m But that was over a month ago I believe at this point, I dont have my spreadsheet anymore when my home compy decided to drink the bad koolaid.

I_am_noob - Dreamweaver

keep in mind that interval is not easy to get...you might get lucky on first tray but...
make sure you have enough badges for few recasts before you go for g16
wish you best of luck b:victory

SashaGray - Heavens Tear

took me 8 tries on fists and 2 tries on daggers.

the chance for 1 -.05 int per roll is slightly less than 15% per roll, and the average is 8 rolls to int. some people are lucky, some aren't.

_Synergy_ - Heavens Tear

Tyvm for the response guys, btw is there any forumla how you calculated that Maelael. I'm curious because I wanna do the exact same thing for my GX's +5 and G13 nirvy +5 but the things is how would you incorporate the SS onto wep's to calculate the damage?

Maelael - Heavens Tear

_Synergy_ - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Tyvm for the response guys, btw is there any forumla how you calculated that Maelael. I'm curious because I wanna do the exact same thing for my GX's +5 and G13 nirvy +5 but the things is how would you incorporate the SS onto wep's to calculate the damage?

http://pwi-wiki.perfectworld.com/index.php/Damage

http://pwcalc.com/

Easiest is just put your gear in pwcalc and switch stuff around.

_Synergy_ - Heavens Tear

Ok so from the website I decided to use these formulas:
(Comparing GX's +5 to Nirvy +5 both w/ Perfect Garnet. Also Lvl 11 Mastery and Barb's Titans)

Attack multiplier = 1 + ( Str / 150 ) + weapon mastery + physical attack buffs
Gx's 1 + ( 336 / 150 ) + 0.75 + 0.3 + 1.0 = 5.29
Nirvy 1 + ( 336 / 150 ) + 0.75 + 0.3 = 4.29

Base Damage = (Min damage + Max damage) / 2
Gx's (8186+4856)/2
Nirvy (10309+5432)/2

Alright so using this formula:

Base damage = attack multiplier * weapon attack
GX's: 34,496
Nirvy: 33, 764
b:shocked

Dang so my GX's out DD the Nirvy wow, boy I should have done this before lol. b:surrender
So my calculations are correct or did I mess up anything?

Magnanimous_ - Heavens Tear

_Synergy_ - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Ok so from the website I decided to use these formulas:
(Comparing GX's +5 to Nirvy +5 both w/ Perfect Garnet. Also Lvl 11 Mastery and Barb's Titans)

Attack multiplier = 1 + ( Str / 150 ) + weapon mastery + physical attack buffs
Gx's 1 + ( 336 / 150 ) + 0.75 + 0.3 + 1.0 = 5.29
Nirvy 1 + ( 336 / 150 ) + 0.75 + 0.3 = 4.29

Base Damage = (Min damage + Max damage) / 2
Gx's (8186+4856)/2
Nirvy (10309+5432)/2

Alright so using this formula:

Base damage = attack multiplier * weapon attack
GX's: 34,496
Nirvy: 33, 764
b:shocked

Dang so my GX's out DD the Nirvy wow, boy I should have done this before lol. b:surrender
So my calculations are correct or did I mess up anything?

I assume you are referring to TT90 gold axes and G13 nirvana dual axes, correct?

The 2 basic formula:
Weapon_damage = (weapon_max+ weapon_min)/2 + shard_damage + ring_damage + other_addons
Base_physical_damage = weapon_damage * sum_of_attack_multiplier

Attack multiplier = 1 + ( Str / 150 ) + weapon mastery + physical attack buffs
Attack multiplier = 1 + ( 336/ 150 ) + 0.75 + 0.3 = 4.29
Attack multiplier will the same for any axe/hammer that you wear

weapon_max = unrefined_weapon_max + refine_bonus + 'Physical Attack'-Addons + 'Maximum Physical Attack'-Addons
weapon_min = unrefined_weapon_max + refine_bonus + 'Physical Attack'-Addons

For TT90 gold axe at + 5
weapon_max = 1358 + 114 + 77 = 1549
weapon_min = 582 + 114 + 77 = 773

Weapon_damage = (1549+773)/2 + 40 (perfect garnet) + 190 (2 sign of frost: chaos)= 1391
Base_Physical_damage = 1391*4.29 = 5967 (without ss)
(This is your average damage dealt on a mob with no defence on a normal attack)

Sacrificial Strike will double this number = 11934 damage (with ss)

Since sacrificial strike can be considered as a 15% chance to increase damage dealt 100%, Base_Physical_damage (long term avergae value with ss) = 5967 * 1.15 = 6862

For G13 dual-axes + 5 (invincible smoker: nirvana)
weapon_max = 1742 + 120 + 142 = 2004
weapon_min = 747 + 120 = 867

Weapon_damage = (2004+867)/2 + 40 (perfect garnet) + 190 (2 sign of frost: chaos)= 1665.5
Base_Physical_damage = 1665.5*4.29 = 7145

So, technically, G13 nirvana will outdamage TT90 gold by 4% on regular attacks (average long term). However, if you consider using only AOE with axes, TT90 gold will win by a small margin (e.g fissure) because ss amplifies skill damage as well. On another side note, SS depends on luck, it may ss twice in a row or it may not ss once in 23 hits. G13 nirvana will genuinely hit harder, while TT90 gold has 15% probability to spike much much higher damage.

SteelStar - Heavens Tear

SashaGray - Heavens Tear wrote: »

took me 8 tries on fists and 2 tries on daggers.

the chance for 1 -.05 int per roll is slightly less than 15% per roll, and the average is 8 rolls to int. some people are lucky, some aren't.

The whole gamble thing is BS!

I rolled my daggers 33 times before I got -int, but at the same time I got -int and GoF!

Jaabg - Sanctuary

SteelStar - Heavens Tear wrote: »

The whole gamble thing is BS!

I rolled my daggers 33 times before I got -int, but at the same time I got -int and GoF!

I agree, pwi probabilities are 0 or 1. Either you are super lucky and get it quick, or you don't. I got -int on 4 weapons as soon as i made them. My daggers, 20 rolls on g15 = no -int, made g16, 8 rolls, no -int. I still go on and try.

WangZi - Dreamweaver

SteelStar - Heavens Tear wrote: »

The whole gamble thing is BS!

I rolled my daggers 33 times before I got -int, but at the same time I got -int and GoF!

What Sasha was talking about were the chances for int on G16 weapons, what you're talking about are G15 which has an even less chance of getting int (since G16 daggers don't get GoF)

truekossy

WangZi - Dreamweaver wrote: »

What Sasha was talking about were the chances for int on G16 weapons, what you're talking about are G15 which has an even less chance of getting int (since G16 daggers don't get GoF)

What? It's not lack of GoF that gives G16 a better chance at interval. It's the fact G16 has three adds you gamble with when G15 only has two.

WangZi - Dreamweaver

truekossy wrote: »

What? It's not lack of GoF that gives G16 a better chance at interval. It's the fact G16 has three adds you gamble with when G15 only has two.

Sorry, I was not saying G15 has less chance of interval BECAUSE it doesn't have GoF, I was saying that the other person was talking about G15 daggers because he said he got GoF on them (so clearly he wasn't talking about G16)

Not only does G15 only have 2 adds, but the % of getting interval for one add is lower than the % of getting it on one add for G16, but yes since G16 has 3 adds, that makes the odds of getting interval even higher