Why are Full Rank9 sins called Fail? .....

Asassinate - Raging Tide

I was with a full Rank9 sin and it was pretty good, he could take huge no of mobs, which APS sins can't do. I always wanted to have DPS of sins but defense of Seekers/BMs. Full R9 might not have as much but come close to it. I can see r9 sins are more reliant on skills, but they can also be a lot more flexible in going Sage. R9 sins are a lot better at Tanking than aps sins. APS sins shy away from TM60 for example or 20x3 there, but R9 will easily do it. R9 don't have dps like aps sins but not far either.

So why are R9 sins called Fails?
Any sins who have played both R9 and aps elaborate. BTW do R9 sins have any problems getting in squads.

Fail_BM - Raging Tide

People still think APS > everything.

Once they get one shotted using TT99, they will understand that kind of gear is not made to survive mass PK, much less TW.

Actually I think R9 sin is the most annoying R9 class; because I am playing a cleric, and they love to jump out of stealth with 100-130 attack lvls and attempt to on shot me (which works if they crit hard enough...)

truekossy

Full R9 isn't fail. Just too many people focused on APS and unable to play the class with skills to realize it.

witniss

truekossy wrote: »

unable to play the class with skills to realize it.

.....

_Skai_ - Raging Tide

Typical APS sins won't realize the power R9 sins can have. That's about it.

VenusArmani - Dreamweaver

I think most people are fully aware that APS is OP. I think the main reason anyone would say R9 sin is fail, is because in general if you're going to spend money on Rank 9 other classes get more out of it than sins do. Not to mention that if you're making it to farm things, APS achieves a lot of farm-ability at a much lower cost even if Rank 9 has obvious advantages over APS.

Empu - Sanctuary

Asassinate - Raging Tide wrote: »

So why are R9 sins called Fails?

Sins has become a farming-alt class for most, so "must be" aps in the mind off most ppl. I heared things like "sins are designed for aps" many times, even though a look at rank gears and the skills clearly show more options. "R9 sin" now refers to "r9 daggers + the usual -int gear" more then "full R9". In the beginning even r9 daggers were said to fail because they don't have -int b:laugh

In short, ppl don't understand someone can focus on something other then nirvana farming on a sin. But honestly, why would someone with that kind of gear still care about nirvana or soloing TT faster ?

Asassinate - Raging Tide wrote: »

Any sins who have played both R9 and aps elaborate. BTW do R9 sins have any problems getting in squads.

Most of the full r9 sins also have a -int armor set, and thus you won't see it that much in nirvana/tt. The only problem I see for full r9-only sins is nirvana. On bh they shouldn't have much problems, especially since some bh now favor full r9 over aps (seat for example).

_Skai_ - Raging Tide

I missed the last part of the original post, but what Empu stated is correct.

People who use sins, regardless of if they are going r9 or not, will be getting the -int gear set before anything else so that they're viable in farming. That means that any sin with r9 daggers out there will have a side set of their APS gears for general use.

Sins who use full r9 in PvE aren't that bad off. I do it sometimes, and 1 shotting mobs for general quests is fun. Not to mention AoEing things is extremely easy with full r9.

@Empu Oh how true that statement about R9 daggers was. I remember being called fail when I first got those daggers, and when I asked why, they said that it didn't have -int, and well.. I just facehoofed.

I also remember back when I got them (I was about the 3rd on my server by then), people kept asking why I got them, and with the general neutral question of "aren't g13 daggers better with the -int?" because most people didn't really know how attack levels and GoF worked back then.

Good days xD.

Buff_me - Raging Tide

Well, as i saw full R9 sin apsing in PvP lately.. I beleive that some of full R9 sins are noobs xD

But, as for me skill spam is fun and even Aps set - R9 weapon +7'ed, if i wear CoD on, I can 1 shot Full +10 R9 archer ^^

Olbaze - Sanctuary

_Skai_ - Raging Tide wrote: »

IPeople who use sins, regardless of if they are going r9 or not, will be getting the -int gear set before anything else so that they're viable in farming. That means that any sin with r9 daggers out there will have a side set of their APS gears for general use.

The sole exception is of course the people who already have the funds to go straight for R9. Rich merchants, major cash shoppers, the like. Interestingly, the people who get full R9 sins for PvP seem to leave their aps gear with **** refines.

@Empu Oh how true that statement about R9 daggers was. I remember being called fail when I first got those daggers, and when I asked why, they said that it didn't have -int, and well.. I just facehoofed.

I also remember back when I got them (I was about the 3rd on my server by then), people kept asking why I got them, and with the general neutral question of "aren't g13 daggers better with the -int?" because most people didn't really know how attack levels and GoF worked back then.

Now that's a bit funky. After all, for Demons, it's the DPH that's the problem, not the -interval. The opposite is true for Sages, as the -interval weaponry is pretty close in terms of DPS to the ones with less -interval.

Personally, I'm sticking with my G13 for a handful of reasons:
1. The cost of any alternative from a G13 +10 would be too high for the gains
2. The G13 allows me to use Subsea and Power Dash over extended periods of time
3. The lack of SS/GoF makes the G13 a safe weapon
4. I don't PvP

But then again, I never went for Assassin for the damage, I went there for the survivability.

Buff_me - Raging Tide wrote: »

Well, as i saw full R9 sin apsing in PvP lately.. I beleive that some of full R9 sins are noobs xD

But, as for me skill spam is fun and even Aps set - R9 weapon +7'ed, if i wear CoD on, I can 1 shot Full +10 R9 archer ^^

It makes me sad when I see a sin with an R9 +10 dagger and refines that are worse than mine.

Buff_me - Raging Tide

Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »

It makes me sad when I see a sin with an R9 +10 dagger and refines that are worse than mine.

Ikr? Those sins with +12 daggers and 5/6 refine on orns/armor, just b:spit

Olbaze - Sanctuary

Buff_me - Raging Tide wrote: »

Ikr? Those sins with +12 daggers and 5/6 refine on orns/armor, just b:spit

Oh I've seen sins with +12 R9 dagger and +3-4 in everything else, sharded Flawless Citrines.

Ebrithalia - Dreamweaver

Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »

Oh I've seen sins with +12 R9 dagger and +3-4 in everything else, sharded Flawless Citrines.

friend saw +12 wep and +1 armor >.> and had a +10 wep with +3 armor pm me sounding proud of it x.x

Nowitsawn - Heavens Tear

Even on private servers where r9 3rd cast +12 with JoSD is right there for the taking, there are still plenty of assassins that PVP in TT99/r8 with nirvana daggers.

You can imagine how that works out, but they never learn.

truekossy

Ebrithalia - Dreamweaver wrote: »

friend saw +12 wep and +1 armor >.> and had a +10 wep with +3 armor pm me sounding proud of it x.x

A while back I saw +12 R9 daggers that had 2 drakeflames. The rest was standard APS stuff for 4.0 demon sparked. He had less HP than the 8X I was on at the time because the rest of his gear was unrefined and unshardes. Pole 1-shot him and I wound up tanking because he'd die as he ressed. Same happened with Nob. Turned out only skills he had were the sparks but he thought just having aps would make him invincible.

What an idiot.

Kastus - Raging Tide

Nowitsawn - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Even on private servers where r9 3rd cast +12 with JoSD is right there for the taking, there are still plenty of assassins that PVP in TT99/r8 with nirvana daggers.

You can imagine how that works out, but they never learn.

ihu come back and make my siggy plox b:chuckle

back to the topic

APS>everythin!

_Skai_ - Raging Tide

Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »

Now that's a bit funky. After all, for Demons, it's the DPH that's the problem, not the -interval. The opposite is true for Sages, as the -interval weaponry is pretty close in terms of DPS to the ones with less -interval.

Personally, I'm sticking with my G13 for a handful of reasons:
1. The cost of any alternative from a G13 +10 would be too high for the gains
2. The G13 allows me to use Subsea and Power Dash over extended periods of time
3. The lack of SS/GoF makes the G13 a safe weapon
4. I don't PvP

But then again, I never went for Assassin for the damage, I went there for the survivability.

Yeah, regardless of what cultivation I was, r9 daggers were questioned pretty badly back then.

Regenbogen - Lost City

stealth -> first strike -> stun+aps(+2spark in stealth b:shutup) -> don't care about armor -> just dagger +10 -> easy killing better geared people -> trashtalk b:bye

Sakubatou - Sanctuary

Right now I'm working on a set of tanking armor for my BM. Aps is great against single targets, but for pulling and tanking the tt99 pieces used for -int fall way behind R8r, G13 vana, G15 vana, and R9. In otherwords, in exchange for more attack damage on 1v1 targets I'm giving up defenses at other times. So I'm expected to have a set of gear for tanking and one for apsing.

Sins are the same way. Sort of. We're not expected to do large pulls since we can stealth past mobs, but there are many times where we have multiple mobs on us and our defenses don't cut it. We also are a melee class that also uses physical ornies so our magic defenses are especially weak, making us Focused Mind dependant. Or we're fighting a boss that can 1 or two shot us, or use skills like purge, stun, or seal. At those times the increased damage of aps means little but the increased defenses of R9 help.

Granted... I've seen alot of R9 try to aps bosses to death and die because of poor paint heals, lol. While my aps kept me alive just fine, despite being hit harder. Its about knowing how to balance offense and defense.

For pvp its different. R9 offers attack levels and higher damage per hit, along with spike damage from GoF. Your tactics are based on controlling your opponent and dropping bombs by using skills, which have the same attack rate no matter how much -int you have and whether you use CotD or not. In turn, you can take more hits if you are caught in a stun and have farther between charm ticks. Sins that aps in pvp are kind of racing a "one of us will die first, me or you" and their fights are over quick.

R9= Defense, attack/defense levels, damage per hit, skill spam.
Aps gear= Paint heals, 1v1 dps, chi gain.

_Ghoul_ - Lost City

Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »

The sole exception is of course the people who already have the funds to go straight for R9. Rich merchants, major cash shoppers, the like. Interestingly, the people who get full R9 sins for PvP seem to leave their aps gear with **** refines.



Now that's a bit funky. After all, for Demons, it's the DPH that's the problem, not the -interval. The opposite is true for Sages, as the -interval weaponry is pretty close in terms of DPS to the ones with less -interval.

Personally, I'm sticking with my G13 for a handful of reasons:
1. The cost of any alternative from a G13 +10 would be too high for the gains
2. The G13 allows me to use Subsea and Power Dash over extended periods of time
3. The lack of SS/GoF makes the G13 a safe weapon
4. I don't PvP

But then again, I never went for Assassin for the damage, I went there for the survivability.



It makes me sad when I see a sin with an R9 +10 dagger and refines that are worse than mine.

excuse me but did you say you go sin for survivability lol pve farming i can see that anything else sin for survivability lol.

not wanting to be offensive but that statement is a bit funy.

Olbaze - Sanctuary

_Ghoul_ - Lost City wrote: »

excuse me but did you say you go sin for survivability lol pve farming i can see that anything else sin for survivability lol.

not wanting to be offensive but that statement is a bit funy.

Hey, I come from playing an Archer, compared to that Sin is a freaking tank.

And that same reason is also why I went Sin rather than BM. Back when I rerolled, there was no General Summer's sale and it was a big freaking deal if you had a G13 or G15 Nirvana. I went sin rather than BM because I already had a bunch of LA gear on my archer.

Barb was never what I wanted. I wanted a DD that was able to take some damage.

greensox

I atm, am an aps sin and I more likly always will be, but if sins are a "%100 aps class" why would they have skills like chill of the deep? But there are many people who also call aps sins fail purly for the fact that they stun-auto attack and can basically kill anyone. This would be prevented tho, if the other person knew how to play... dont PvP much anymore tho the server is full of only 100+ R8-9

Buff_me

greensox wrote: »

I atm, am an aps sin and I more likly always will be, but if sins are a "%100 aps class" why would they have skills like chill of the deep? But there are many people who also call aps sins fail purly for the fact that they stun-auto attack and can basically kill anyone. This would be prevented tho, if the other person knew how to play... dont PvP much anymore tho the server is full of only 100+ R8-9

Negro.. I mean necro!

Massad - Harshlands

I here by introduce into evidence... exhibit A

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mXrPagyvw1o&list=WLA9F4638E9B882562

I hate this guy he is so hard to kill



oh dammit this is a necro

skaitavia

@green Before APS kills anyone quickly. Nowdays, not so much.

And as many have stated, this thread has been necro'd and now shall be closed!

~closed