gear help plzz

seronja101

so just a quick quastion
i am 5 aps whit g13+10 regicide
still no interval tome
question is
g16 claws +10 and 4 aps or just stick whit regicide +10 till i get tome?
would i lose on dmg becos of 4 aps or would still out dd my regicide on 5 aps
if posible some calculations would be welcome to see dps on bouth weapons
TY

Maelael - Heavens Tear

Uhm....lets go ahead and use my crappy build as a base.

pwcalc.com/fcf9aac545ae1bdf

So removing the tome and makin with the +10:

http://pwcalc.com/284926523a8a1c82 (13832-15671 @ 5aps = 73757 average a second)

http://pwcalc.com/7af34c93c969b847 (16776-17610 @ 4aps = (68772 *1.4) 96280 average a second)

Get a tome, then get your N3 Fists or Claws still!

Jaabg - Sanctuary

*Npc's Maelael gear b:avoid* Now that is out of the way.

G13, +10 claws, flawless garnet, 1 socket - 3551-4168 damage range, non sparked, non buffed and all that good stuff.

G16, +10 claws, flawless garnet, 1 socket - 4256-5101

G13 average = 3860 round up

G16 average = 4679 round up

Hmmmm, g16 doing 819 more damage per hit on average. Lets add in sparky, 5 for g15, 4 for g16. You know the answer is g16 with int tome.

G13 = 3860*5 = 19 300

G16 = 4679*4 = 18 716

Odd, g13 out dd my g16 b:angry, game must be broke. Wait, let's add the attack lvls. 18 716*1.4 = 26 202 (rounded down|). Whew, game not broken b:shocked

Just because we are a curious bunch, let's see the 5 aps on g16.

4679*5*1.4= 32 753 b:shutup.

I hope that answers your question. Before you go hopping with joy about getting g16, i presume you already had the mold, and enough badges to do 1~7 rerolls. If you do not have the badges and mold, i would recommend farm those with your g13, farm your tome at the same time, only takes 30~45 days of 1 delta a day. Hope that helps. There is a reason why g16 bm will out dd g13 sins at same refines, and g15 sins with +8 or lower.

Maelael - Heavens Tear

Jaabg - Sanctuary wrote: »

*Npc's Maelael gear b:avoid* Now that is out of the way.

This is the part where I facepalm on the attack levels.

With 40 attack levels, the N3 at 4aps outdamages the G13s at 5aps

Sakubatou - Sanctuary

Two things wrong with your calculations:
G16s without a tome and without interval is 3.33, not 4.0. Right now OP is 3.33/5.0 and if he lost -.1 on his weapon he'd be 2.5 3.33. That's not perma sparked, so big dd loss.
Second, you guys did calcs adding 40 attack levels as 140%, but attack levels don't multiply other attack levels so if we had no other attack levels than blessing the 40 attack levels would only add 30.7%. If they had cube, DoTs, jungle belt... then it'd be even less.

Get the tome first. Here's why. Right now I have rolled my G16 claws 5 times and still no -int. It takes 5 mirages per refine attempt and every time you reroll you lose the previous refines and shards so the most I'm putting on is +4 and a flawless garnet while I farm for more rerolls. So far that's 160 duty badges spent in trying to get -int on my claws. I currently am farming 80 badges then going to try 4 rerolls in a row so I don't have to re-refine and reshard in between attempts. So assuming you will have claws worth +10 and worth sharding anytime soon is a mistake. I'd much prefer still having my 4.0 2x Garnet Gem G15s +10 while farming for more badges and it was a mistake to get G16s before I had a cache of duty badges built up for rerolls.

So take your time, get your tome. The beauty of rerolling G16s is its fairly cheap (assuming you're not chienkuning sockets). A 4 mil essence and 1 mil refine cost for every 20 badges, and it takes a while to farm 20 badges so plenty of time in between attempts. Use that time to farm coin for the Pan Gu's and get a cache of offense essences and duty badges.

Maelael - Heavens Tear

Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »

Two things wrong with your calculations:
G16s without a tome and without interval is 3.33, not 4.0. Right now OP is 3.33/5.0 and if he lost -.1 on his weapon he'd be 2.5 3.33. That's not perma sparked, so big dd loss.
Second, you guys did calcs adding 40 attack levels as 140%, but attack levels don't multiply other attack levels so if we had no other attack levels than blessing the 40 attack levels would only add 30.7%. If they had cube, DoTs, jungle belt... then it'd be even less.

Psst he asked for G16s at 4.0...

Also apparently I missed a new article on how Attack levels is not a straightforward damage % somewhere?

http://pwi-wiki.perfectworld.com/index.php/Damage

if ( attack level > defense level ) then:

damage taken = damage delivered * ( 1 + ( attack level - defense level ) / 100 )

Where did I go wrong? Like seriously I'm confused here, not even being silly or sarcastic.

Sakubatou - Sanctuary

Maelael - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Psst he asked for G16s at 4.0...

Yah... I noticed that after I posted but chose not to edit since its still a 1/7 chance of rolling -int on his claws and its not unrelistic to think that can take him 20+ attempts.

Maelael - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Also apparently I missed an article on how Attack levels is not a straightforward damage % somewhere?

In PvP its not.

In PvE it basically is, but how it was calced was wrong. Lets say you have 100k dps (just an easy to calc number) before attack levels, 130k with Jones Blessing. Adding 40 attack levels to that would be adding it to the 100k, not the 130k. So those 40 attack levels took you from 130k to 170k, which is only a 30.7% increase from your previous damage.

Lets say you used an O'Malleys instead. 100k dps again, 115k with O'Malleys +15 attack levels. Then the 40 attack levels also, so 155k dps. The difference of 40 attack levels took is 155k/115k=134.7%, so a 34.7% increase from previous damage because of the 40 attack levels.

Simply put, the more attack levels you have already, the less impact adding new attack levels makes.

Maelael - Heavens Tear

Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »

Yah... I noticed that after I posted but chose not to edit since its still a 1/7 chance of rolling -int on his claws and its not unrelistic to think that can take him 20+ attempts.

So outta the 6 BMs Ive run WS with and weve gotten fists...all of us got it with the initial roll to tops 2 rerolls. Yet another person in my faction is on his 30th roll I think I could be exaggerating but I swear he said he was over 20 already.

We were just talking damage, however. And I full agree he should get cape first, not just from a farming perspective but chi gain perspective. Sure 4aps works but 5aps allows for mistakes and variances.

Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »

In PvP its not.

In PvE it basically is, but how it was calced was wrong. Lets say you have 100k dps (just an easy to calc number) before attack levels, 130k with Jones Blessing. Adding 40 attack levels to that would be adding it to the 100k, not the 130k. So those 40 attack levels took you from 130k to 170k, which is only a 30.7% increase from your previous damage.

Lets say you used an O'Malleys instead. 100k dps again, 115k with O'Malleys +15 attack levels. Then the 40 attack levels also, so 155k dps. The difference of 40 attack levels took is 155k/115k=134.7%, so a 34.7% increase from previous damage because of the 40 attack levels.

Simply put, the more attack levels you have already, the less impact adding new attack levels makes.

He said fists so I didn't even think we were even talking PvP heh. Okay phew not nuts. Im aware of the PvP difference with attack levels. And yea I know it adds off the base damage, the damage above was just from the 3 spark, no attack levels. % wise eh, I was just calc'ing the damage, which afaik is correct by pwpedia unless excel hates me today.

Jaabg - Sanctuary

Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »

In PvE it basically is, but how it was calced was wrong. Lets say you have 100k dps (just an easy to calc number) before attack levels, 130k with Jones Blessing. Adding 40 attack levels to that would be adding it to the 100k, not the 130k. So those 40 attack levels took you from 130k to 170k, which is only a 30.7% increase from your previous damage.

Lets say you used an O'Malleys instead. 100k dps again, 115k with O'Malleys +15 attack levels. Then the 40 attack levels also, so 155k dps. The difference of 40 attack levels took is 155k/115k=134.7%, so a 34.7% increase from previous damage because of the 40 attack levels.

Simply put, the more attack levels you have already, the less impact adding new attack levels makes.

I see, i was confused on those parts as well. I knew it wasn't 1:1, but the formula didn't seem to reflect it, thanks for the explanation.

Now that you mention the 4 and 5 aps, without the tome, i see what you mean. Little things i overlooked, and assumed the g16 would have at least one -int. Sadly i am out of badges, otherwise could have rolled yours . Worst case you get -0.05 int and magicx2 b:chuckle.

Expanding on the attack lvl question. If you add dot to armour, will they also have diminishing return to damage output? Or is armour treated with increasing the base?

To the OP, if you are thinking of keeping you +10 as go to g15 and g16, look at the chienkun costs, and see if it is worth it for you. Since you said it was regicide, might want to sell that pair, and get a new clean pair that you want to turn into g16, or start with a clean pair, if you are loathe to loose +10 on the claws.

seronja101

ok you overthinking this
question is simple
do i do more dmg as g16+10 at 4 aps
and it lokks like i do
and ofc they have interval so i am 2,85 base
i know i lose some chi gain from 5 aps but still i can be perma sparking
and to **** situations ther is chi apo xD
so bether g16 then ????

Maelael - Heavens Tear

seronja101 wrote: »

ok you overthinking this
question is simple
do i do more dmg as g16+10 at 4 aps
and it lokks like i do
and ofc they have interval so i am 2,85 base
i know i lose some chi gain from 5 aps but still i can be perma sparking
and to **** situations ther is chi apo xD
so bether g16 then ????

Sorry were nerds.

Yes, G16 at 4aps is better than G13 at 5aps.

Maelael - Heavens Tear

Jaabg - Sanctuary wrote: »

I see, i was confused on those parts as well. I knew it wasn't 1:1, but the formula didn't seem to reflect it, thanks for the explanation.

Now that you mention the 4 and 5 aps, without the tome, i see what you mean. Little things i overlooked, and assumed the g16 would have at least one -int. Sadly i am out of badges, otherwise could have rolled yours . Worst case you get -0.05 int and magicx2 b:chuckle.

Expanding on the attack lvl question. If you add dot to armour, will they also have diminishing return to damage output? Or is armour treated with increasing the base?

Its more of how % improvement rate is calculated.

In PvE, cause mobs don't have def levels - 1 DoT is 1%.

But, what Saku is getting at is the following:

Let's work with a 1000 base.

1000 * 1.3 = 1300 (Jones)
1000 * 1.7 = 1700 (Jones +40 attack levels)

1300/1000 = 130.00%
1700/1000 = 170.00%

1700/1300 = 130.77%

What he's saying is it's only a 30% improvement over the 130% value. However, it is always a direct % improvement over the base value. "Base value" being the key term.

Jaabg - Sanctuary

I see, thank you b:thanks.

So if a person has 94 attack lvls, that is a 49.2% improvement from base of 1.3. So the 64 attack lvls add 49.2% extra damage?

24 dot, 24+30+40 = 94

1000x1.94 = 1 940

1 940 / 1 300 = 149.23%

But if we go in increments

1000x1.54 = 1 540

1540/1300 = 118.46 ( 24 attack lvls add an addtion 18.46% to attack from 1 300 base)

1 940 / 1540 = 125.97 (the last 40 attack lvls add an addition ~26%)

Why would be change the base from 1000 to 1300 (or another amount), in pve? Is it just to see the additional damage new attack lvls do? The actual damage done to the mob will still scale on the 1 000 base?

My brain is drawing parallels with cpi indices, so all these questions pop up.

Nerds have started ruling the world b:dirty.

Maelael - Heavens Tear

Jaabg - Sanctuary wrote: »

Why would be change the base from 1000 to 1300 (or another amount), in pve? Is it just to see the additional damage new attack lvls do? The actual damage done to the mob will still scale on the 1 000 base?

Well the 1000 base was just for ease of doing math. The base could be any number at all.

Jaabg - Sanctuary

Maelael - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Well the 1000 base was just for ease of doing math. The base could be any number at all.

Oh, i get that, can be any number, but why change it? The mob damage is still being calculated from original base number right and what ever additions that are made to it in the end? So if you have 1300, the mob will be experiencing the 1300 equivalent in damage(after factoring in def factors and other things). Once you get to 1700, the mob will sustain the 1700 equivalent damage? Or am i still not understanding this correctly?

Sakubatou - Sanctuary

Jaabg - Sanctuary wrote: »

Sadly i am out of badges, otherwise could have rolled yours

I'm insistent on having my own name on all my gear. It shows that I worked for it and farmed for it, didn't just cash shop it. Its become a source of pride.Only thing that doesn't have it is my CoA ring and I farmed that in a squad and had a drop picker that made it. I almost bought a ring with no name on it just to correct this, but I'd have lost the refines and was a bit broke when I saw it. Otherwise, I'd gladly take you up on your offer

The main reason I think in these terms with attack levels is when comparing gains. Lets say you are an archer with r9 and 93 attack levels and 35 def levels and you are wondering if you should go offensive sharding or defensive sharding. Killing something before it reaches you is better right? Well, each DoT adds .5% damage at this point and isn't much of a gain while a JoSD would be 1.5% more defense levels. I'm looking at the change from what I already have to what I could have.

And to the OP, G16 4 aps will out dd G13 5 aps. You will have slightly harder timer soloing, and may suffer an overall squad decrease in damage if you cannot balance triple sparking and HFing. Especially if you don't get -int quickly and are 2.5 base/3.33 sparked for a while it will be harder to continue to farm badges for more rerolls and slow down your progress. I still suggest tome first, G16 later but its up to you. I personally went G16 4.0 with a tome and occasionally get rejected from vana squads for not being 5 aps. I also notice my TT3-x farming is harder this 2x because I'm 4 aps instead of 5 and if I get sealed/stunned and fall short of 3 sparks its a long ways because to 3 sparks at 2.86 unsparked.

Jaabg - Sanctuary

I understand that, some of my friends are like that, i am a stingy person, if having someone elses name saves me 1~20m, so be it.

Thanks, i get your reasoning for the base, to see the damage scaling with increased attack levels.

I had the same issue in fcc. I went on a full run and forgot my tome on my sin. I kept on wondering, was full fcc really this hard? Previously i would have to spark, attack bosses, no effort required. This time, def charms vanished, pots were cracked open, hp was seen trcikling down, life was exciting.

Maybe i'll do hard bosses at 3.33 aps sarpked, or 4 aps, to make it fun when bored. I do hope you get int on your fist/claw soon. The g16+10 (my dex claws atleast) seem to out dd g13+10 sins (sage or demon), g15 +8~+9 (int zerk sins, demon). Or maybe those sins were not trying in those runs to take agro, they thought, ah finally a tank, save the charm and repair bills. You know how sins spark and kill mobs in seat or aba really quickly, we can do that with cyclone heal and mire now b:laugh.