Should i go full R9 or 5.0 APS as an Archer??

TheDan - Sanctuary

I'm not sure this fairly represents BM damage output, but it's somewhat close. 350 STR is really low-balling and it doesn't consider dragon bane / demon diamond sutra bonuses BMs can get. I'm easily over 410 STR in my int gear and I'm not even full STR, and have no STR adds on ring engraves. This would probably peak at 450 STR if I actually cared to restat my extra dex and re-rolled more for STR adds on rings.

But nonetheless, the 13 attack level R9 adds on archer make them have similar DPS to the average BM. This falls off a bit in terms of G16 though. A 2 piece R9 BM (belt / chest) with 2 G15 NV pieces can get an additional attack level boost of 8 though from 30 (38) if we are ignoring cube neck adds.

Though if we compared the average BM and average archer both non R9, the BM would definitely out-damage the archer without the attack levels archers get from R9 being factored.

Quilue - Sanctuary

Obviously this isn't comparing top DD BMs vs archers, I simply looked how much crit rate can actually be contributing to see how archers can possibly feel they can keep aggro over BMs as many have claimed, because simply saying "we have Blazing" doesn't exactly explain how archers can bridge that gap from stats. Realistically, BMs probably take chi and cast time to HF first, thus no one is actually playing an aggro fight and the archer just takes aggro.

KawaiiJen wrote: »

I much like the dex.

http://www.pwcalc.com/0850cbe68f099a1c

This is how an archer such as yourself might end up wearing claws and still keep that dex. Add -int on claws for Sage. b:cute

No damage sacrificed! Why would anybody do something like that? Well say you're treasure hunting and map 5 spawned this HUGE BAWS in your face...and you start to think...wow I hit so slowly it's never going to die...maybe I should relog my sin and and...

but instead you click a couple of times and go RAGE and the boss dies all fast so kewl! :O

kawaiijen

TheDan - Sanctuary wrote: »

I'm not sure this fairly represents BM damage output, but it's somewhat close. 350 STR is really low-balling and it doesn't consider dragon bane / demon diamond sutra bonuses BMs can get. I'm easily over 410 STR in my int gear and I'm not even full STR, and have no STR adds on ring engraves. This would probably peak at 450 STR if I actually cared to restat my extra dex and re-rolled more for STR adds on rings.

But nonetheless, the 13 attack level R9 adds on archer make them have similar DPS to the average BM. This falls off a bit in terms of G16 though. A 2 piece R9 BM (belt / chest) with 2 G15 NV pieces can get an additional attack level boost of 8 though from 30 (38) if we are ignoring cube neck adds.

Though if we compared the average BM and average archer both non R9, the BM would definitely out-damage the archer without the attack levels archers get from R9 being factored.

This was my similar mindset when I was posting a BM would be out DPSing an Archer with claws.

Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »

This is how an archer such as yourself might end up wearing claws and still keep that dex. Add -int on claws for Sage. b:cute

No damage sacrificed! Why would anybody do something like that? Well say you're treasure hunting and map 5 spawned this HUGE BAWS in your face...and you start to think...wow I hit so slowly it's never going to die...maybe I should relog my sin and and...

but instead you click a couple of times and go RAGE and the boss dies all fast so kewl! :O

b:chuckle That requires me rerolling my cape as I have +9 str on it not 12 b:chuckle

And I don't do treasure map 5s on my archer they are on my sin in the first place. b:chuckle
Unless I know its a brambler then I just do it on my archer with my bow b:victory

I can't find a good enough reason to invest aps on my archer when for a little bit more I made my fish. /shrug

Maelael - Heavens Tear

Yanno what, I've grouped with that archer from GD who's name escapes me right now - and he's got +12 G16 Fists. Nice guy, great gear, and from the full WS run I was with him, he was pretty damn good.

If I can find him online and remember his fricken name (I think its PsyStar or something similar, Jen do you know who I'm talkin about?), maybe he's got some time to do some testing. I'm a 350 strength BM @ 95 attack levels, so that would be a good lowball test, cause I can just switch blessings if he's not DoT'ed out. Again, if he's got time and is in the mood.

Regardless in the end, even if the archer had similar, or even superior DPS to the BM with claws, they don't have HF - which pretty much ends any real comparison.

Elenacostel - Heavens Tear

Maelael - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Regardless in the end, even if the archer had similar, or even superior DPS to the BM with claws, they don't have HF - which pretty much ends any real comparison.

Blood Vow cooldown will be reduced to 2 minutes (from 5) after the expansion. Still not as cool as HF, but certainly nothing to sneeze at.

Maelael - Heavens Tear

Elenacostel - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Blood Vow cooldown will be reduced to 2 minutes (from 5) after the expansion. Still not as cool as HF, but certainly nothing to sneeze at.

Totally. And even with that, for like BH, I'd still tell em to use a bow cause I want that mob dead - now. Good example with that Archer from GD - he'd use fists for bosses in warsong, but when he used bow they died faster and he kinda had aggro sometimes. Same with Jen there too, cept she used/uses bow the whole time.

But stuff like Nirvana, where its boss after boss, or other instances where there is not much downtime...it's not really comparable to HF.

Really, they should give Archers ability to use BP, and change that skill to 2 sparks and 30-60 second CD. It would be nice to have a viable 3rd class for nirvana and TT speed runs. -Note I said class, some Archers are well spec'ed and fine for these, but by far not the majority or average.

Elenacostel - Heavens Tear

Maelael - Heavens Tear wrote: »

-Note I said class, some Archers are well spec'ed and fine for these, but by far not the majority or average.

In all honesty, this is true for all classes. This is why I say that claw archers are fine. In the theoretical world, assassins do better and BMs do a little better. In the practical world, archers are comparable the other APS classes.

kawaiijen

Elenacostel - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Blood Vow cooldown will be reduced to 2 minutes (from 5) after the expansion. Still not as cool as HF, but certainly nothing to sneeze at.

I agree while BV is a nice single target amp even with the time reduction it just can't contend with the AoE amp HF does.

Maelael - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Totally. And even with that, for like BH, I'd still tell em to use a bow cause I want that mob dead - now. Good example with that Archer from GD - he'd use fists for bosses in warsong, but when he used bow they died faster and he kinda had aggro sometimes. Same with Jen there too, cept she used/uses bow the whole time.

But stuff like Nirvana, where its boss after boss, or other instances where there is not much downtime...it's not really comparable to HF.

Really, they should give Archers ability to use BP, and change that skill to 2 sparks and 30-60 second CD. It would be nice to have a viable 3rd class for nirvana and TT speed runs. -Note I said class, some Archers are well spec'ed and fine for these, but by far not the majority or average.

b:chuckle Don't tell them my secrets >:O

God no. Don't ever give us BP or make our BV like HF -_-. We are already superior DD classes I don't want us becoming so unbalanced like sins. b:surrender

Elenacostel - Heavens Tear wrote: »

In all honesty, this is true for all classes. This is why I say that claw archers are fine. In the theoretical world, assassins do better and BMs do a little better. In the practical world, archers are comparable the other APS classes.

While comparable in equal gear and refines it still goes Sin > BM > Barb / Archer.

Though in the end it doesn't really matter since 90% of content you do stuff dies by the 3rd round of sparks. Yes Claw archers are viable. Yes they can do some decent damage. Was that what they were intended for? Not exactly or we would have a melee skill tree like venos do for fox form. Without super endgame gear the archer is a little more limited on what they can do compared to BM and Sin because of the lack of BP to sustain their hp pool on some bosses. Even with the Revenge hp proc on fists sometimes isn't enough.