Cleric can be good DD?

eduardotg

Hio Hio guys b:bye im new in PWI and I cant choose between: Wizard - Psychic - cleric.

I wonder if the cleric could be attack build and forget the support, only take basic support, and if so: what skills should not up?.

I read about the 3 classes that attract me, but have read things that contradict. What would be the real difference? I want a pve and pvp DD class. Dont want be more full support class. hehehehe

Niteshadows - Harshlands

First off clerics can DD, but that's not what they're main purpose is.
For better survivability, you may want to either drop a few points into vitality or just put in a
few citrine shards. If you want to have a good chance on joining a squad make sure you play
your cleric to its fullest.

Kiribas - Archosaur

If you don't want to be a support class, then it's best you not play a cleric and the are considered the support class. As Niteshadow's said, clerics can DD rather well (With access to physical amd magical metal damage) but really should only do so if the group is healed and purified. A clerics greatest offense is your team members, they aren't going to DD if they are on the floor

Eoria - Harshlands

If you don't want to support, you're best off rolling a wizzie or psy.

SerenityCNB - Dreamweaver

Wizard: Strongest DD attacks /dph in the game, excluding none. Wizards are the kings of damage numbers as a mage. They also have a variety of elemental attacks, and one of their ulti's does some physical damage too. Their weakness however is their slow casting/channeling speed, and the fact that many wizards tend to need to use channeling gear instead of physical defensive ornaments to make up for this. So wizards tend to fit the term "Glass Cannon" more than other class.

Pyschic: 2nd strongest DD attacks/dph in the game...and only marginally beat by the wizard in its pure damage numbers, the psychic is a much faster channeler, and has several AOE's. Psy's also have the ability to increase their damage output, but lower their defense to hit even harder, and they have the ability to hit lighter, but increase their overall defense to survive blows better. This helps them to maintain aggro control better as well, and escape certain situations. The true stregnth of the psy however, is dependent on how you are willing to pay real life money, or farm, and grind with lots of time. This is because a psy's greatest stregnth are its soul type moves...and these are dependent upon your refines...which are expensive.

Clerics: First off, to answer your question...there is no reason to go only attack, and ignore support if you are to succeed as a cleric. Part of a cleric's survivability is dependent upon its support skills. Of the mages, clerics deal the second lowest damage, and use only metal based magic attacks and physical based magic attacks. Clerics can DD, but not on the level of a wizard or psy, as those classes are designed for the purpose. Also, if you plan to squad a lot or run dungeons a lot, you will be expected to act as support as a cleric, so you'll need those skills leveled if you are to function properly. The exception is if you tell your squad that you are there ONLY to DD, otherwise they'll kick you for a more suited cleric once they see you DD'ing and not healing. Even if this plan does go into place, there are some heals that you would still need to level. Ultimately, you'll want everything to be leveled, but as a pure DD'er, I'd go for a class that's designed for it, if you don't want to support any.

That said:

Terms of damage output:

Wizard > Psychic > Cleric

Terms of channeling:

Psychic > Cleric > Wizard

Ease of leveling:

Cleric > Wizard > Psychic (Wiz and Psy are about even here. Some people don't really see the power of psys, so they're not as likely to get invited to squads...and wizards themselves have trouble getting an invite already.)

Least Expensive to use for gear:

Cleric > Wizard > Psychic (Clerics job is to keep others alive. Others need to protect the cleric, so a clerics main defense is not its gear...but its squad. Have decent, up to date gear and you'll be alright.)

Least expensive for potions (Namely mp)

Wizard > Psychic > Cleric (Clerics will use tons of mp potions during a run.)

I hope that helps a little. Take care, and good luck with your decision.

eduardotg

Tyvm for the info guys :P should choose between Wizard or Psychic hehehe

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands

Cleric can DD hard but no one take cleric as DD. So try wizz and psy.

StreamElf - Sanctuary

Clerics can be a good DD, i stole aggro from a lvl 97 bm with my 94 cleric in bh59.. Even on the metal boss :P But it's not their main purpose. If you'll look for a squad, you'll be picked because of your heals and not because you do high damage. If there's another cleric in the squad you can ask if you can DD instead of heal. And when you don't need to heal so much you can use your seals and DD a little. But always remember you are in that squad because of your heals (or awesome personality, but i don't know you :P)

Niteshadows - Harshlands

Make a sin.

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands

eduardotg wrote: »

Hio Hio guys b:bye im new in PWI and I cant choose between: Wizard - Psychic - cleric.

Niteshadows - Harshlands wrote: »

Make a sin.

Sin is not in his choice.

Sakubatou - Sanctuary

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands wrote: »

Sin is not in his choice.

I'm sure he knew that, I think his point was sins have the highest dd in the game. If the OP is looking for pure damage output, sin is his best choice. If he's strictly looking for a caster with dd, I'd recommend psychic.

Psychics, Wizards, Sin's, and Barb's all compete for highest (damage per hit) classes.

Psychics will usually out dd a wizard over time, but a psychic gets their high damage by picking black voodoo, a self buff that lowers your defenses but raises your attack. Wizards don't have to nerf their defenses to gain attack power.

Psychics are more versatile than Wizards. As I mentioned, they have black and white voodoo's to put you into a defensive or offensive state. They have many self buffs that can stun or silence their attack, reflect damage, or even become immune to physical damage.

Wizards on the other hand get their high damage by having 3 elements mastered, so you can chose to attack with the element in which your opponent is weakest. Wizards also have three shields that either increase physical defense, water defense, or fire defense.

Overall I'd say psychic is more fun to play, more versatile and has more room to grow, but there is no reason to not try both. Make an arcane character account so you can transfer gear back and forth and see which character you like most.


Edit: Oh! wanted to write something about cleric dd.

As a cleric dding is always last priority. The only time my cleric really dd's is to prevent people from taking damage. For instance if an archer aggro's a mob its easier to freeze the mob outside of the range of attacking the archer or myself, and then just kill the mob. Then I never need to heal because the mob never dealt damage. Or when zhenning (a term used to describe the tank rounding up a group of mobs and holding aggro while everyone dd's the group together using area attacks) its sometimes easier to kill the mobs before they can hurt the tank than to heal the tank and the mobs die slower.

Cleric damage output isn't great. We hit fairly hard, but not as hard as wizzies or psys. We also only have 3 aoes and two of them use up chi. Casters gain chi slowly and as a cleric I save my chi for things like shield or purifying.

Also, this game is somewhat unbalanced in the amount of dps melee characters do. Casters have amazing dph, but because attack speed grows exponentially a melee with alot of -int (decreases time between attacks) will attack 5 times a second and be triple sparked for 500% damage most the time. Because of this its more important that a cleric uses their debuff seals to lower the physical and magic defenses of the mobs since that usually gives more damage than attacking.

Quilue - Sanctuary

In terms of DPS clerics can definitely compete with wizards in MM mode. MM mode on high refines matches clerics' higher nukes (wield, tempest) with wizards', while granting clerics' faster nukes (cyclone, plume shot, boon) more damage compared to wizards'.

The only reason a wizard might win out is from their higher chi gain, thus allowing for more spark erupts, Sutra, or Demon Quaff, but clerics have good attack buffs with either Sage Magic Shell or Demon Spirit's Gift. Still don't understand why Plume Shot is 5 chi while Pyro is like...15 chi IIRC...

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands

Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »

In terms of DPS clerics can definitely compete with wizards in MM mode. MM mode on high refines matches clerics' higher nukes (wield, tempest) with wizards', while granting clerics' faster nukes (cyclone, plume shot, boon) more damage compared to wizards'.

The only reason a wizard might win out is from their higher chi gain, thus allowing for more spark erupts, Sutra, or Demon Quaff, but clerics have good attack buffs with either Sage Magic Shell or Demon Spirit's Gift. Still don't understand why Plume Shot is 5 chi while Pyro is like...15 chi IIRC...

Cleric have a great damage, but no one take a cleric as DD in any squad.

SMASHnHEAL - Dreamweaver

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands wrote: »

Cleric have a great damage, but no one take a cleric as DD in any squad.

Usually three reasons people don't take clerics as DD's


1) They are the only healer so need to focus on the job clerics were designed for

2) People that don't play a cleric have the mind set that any other caster can out DD a cleric so will look for them instead

3) Have run in squad with two or more clerics before where they have either argued over who will heal and who will DD or both the clerics haven't communicated and let others die while they pew pew away

With my gear I can compete with most classes as a DD but I know if they have the same gear I usually lose out. At the end of the day clerics are designed to be a support class but with Ultra Violet Dance the damage gap has been bridged between other casters and is very useful in situations where you are able to stop healing and DD for a bit.

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands

SMASHnHEAL - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Usually three reasons people don't take clerics as DD's


1) They are the only healer so need to focus on the job clerics were designed for

2) People that don't play a cleric have the mind set that any other caster can out DD a cleric so will look for them instead

3) Have run in squad with two or more clerics before where they have either argued over who will heal and who will DD or both the clerics haven't communicated and let others die while they pew pew away

With my gear I can compete with most classes as a DD but I know if they have the same gear I usually lose out. At the end of the day clerics are designed to be a support class but with Ultra Violet Dance the damage gap has been bridged between other casters and is very useful in situations where you are able to stop healing and DD for a bit.

Generally people will take one cleric for healing and that's all, for bh, TT etc.. people prefer have APS so it's faster.

For caster people take 2 clerics so one can support the other.

The only persons that know that clerics damage is good is the clerics them self, we can't change the rest of the population mind about that, they want a cleric for heal that's all.

As someone playing cleric and other class VD and UVD is the worse thing they ever made in that game, how many time i see people die cause the cleric is in VD and don't have time to turn back for heal, how many time i see clerics in VD not healing at all letting people live on their charms and when you ask them to heal you got as answer ''use pots''.

I would never understand why people make clerics if they want to be a DD.If they want a magic class that can heal, but be a DD mystic are there for that.

Elanxu - Dreamweaver

dont you love it when you have a caster squad with 3 clerics, and some genius psy joins, and leaves. you ask them why and they say "3 clerics? lol good luck" and then you say "all three clerics are r9+12. and then they say oooh ooh let me join.

kawaiijen

Clerics can be a good DD. However that is not their primary role. Their main job is to support the "better" DDers. I say better in quotes, because in cases of equal gear and stats the cleric has the lowest damage output and a lack of DD skills. I have no problem having a cleric be a DD as long as they do their primary role first which is to keep the squad alive. If they can do both by all means I say let them.

The stereotyping that clerics have no damage is false. With UVD (the better VD skill) their damage can par that with similar geared casters, however they lose the ability to do what their class was intended for, support. The lack of clerics being played these days further reduces the chance of there being more then 1 cleric in a squad so that one could be a full on DD(caster nirvana is the only exception to this). And due to many many hyper babies running around and being stupid the cleric is too busy trying to pull their hair out keeping them and the squad alive to be able to DD.

That's my $0.02.

Oh and I take anyone in all of my runs I do regardless of class and gear.

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands

Elanxu - Dreamweaver wrote: »

dont you love it when you have a caster squad with 3 clerics, and some genius psy joins, and leaves. you ask them why and they say "3 clerics? lol good luck" and then you say "all three clerics are r9+12. and then they say oooh ooh let me join.

Haha generally more clerics in caster = charm tick and some death for sure. xD

They all so want to DD. xD

I love see them fight to know which of the 3 will heal or DD, i think one time one hundred i'll see a cleric say ''i will heal i like that it's why i chose cleric''.

But caster make them take bad habits, i see more and more cleric turn in VD in BH while they are the only cleric.

SMASHnHEAL - Dreamweaver

But but but, I have Sage Celestial Guardian Seal so I can heal while in UVD b:thanks

thumbs

Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »

Cleric damage output isn't great. We hit fairly hard, but not as hard as wizzies or psys.

Name a case where a faster channeling/casting mage hits harder than a slower one. W/o this; there would be clear unbalance in the game.

We also only have 3 aoes and two of them use up chi.

How many does a wiz have not including a knockback, non dmg, or chi user?

Also, this game is somewhat unbalanced in the amount of dps melee characters do. Casters have amazing dph, but because attack speed grows exponentially a melee with alot of -int (decreases time between attacks) will attack 5 times a second and be triple sparked for 500% damage most the time.

Yes and having the ability to do great dmg including AoE from range has no advantage whatsoever. -Unbalanced...right! -lol

Because of this its more important that a cleric uses their debuff seals to lower the physical and magic defenses of the mobs since that usually gives more damage than attacking.

Most classes are often best off using debuffs.

Sakubatou - Sanctuary

*I will not respond to thumbs trolls*
*I will not respond to thumbs trolls*
*I will not respond to thumbs trolls*
...damn.

thumbs wrote: »

Name a case where a faster channeling/casting mage hits harder than a slower one. W/o this; there would be clear unbalance in the game.

Psychics vs venos. Psychics vs Wizards in many cases. Skill for skill psychics beat venos in damage, throw in black voodoo and they sometimes beat wizards both in dph and channeling speed.

Want an example closer to home? Compare Razor Feather's with Wield Thunder. Wield Thunder gets 3k more damage and is faster to cast.

Compare even Pyrgram and Cyclone, the most basic of skills. They hit almost the same, despite Cyclone being a faster cast. Throw in a cleric's own buffs and the cleric wins by even more.

Not all skills are created equal. Channeling=/= dph. Many skills are faster and pure dd, others are slower but have less dd and an additional effect like stun, others have similar channeling but do more damage and have a chi cost.

thumbs wrote: »

How many does a wiz have not including a knockback, non dmg, or chi user?

They have a continuous aoe, Dragons Breath. So really they only need one.

Also Emberstorm. Then a knockback and 4 x two spark aoes. They do have less things to use their chi on, though. 7 aoes total.

thumbs wrote: »

Yes and having the ability to do great dmg including AoE from range has no advantage whatsoever. -Unbalanced...right! -lol

I assume by the time you finish reading a sentence you've forgotten the start of it. Not sure if this is an English barrier or if you have to look up definitions, but almost everything you quote out of context. Equal geared aps characters out dps casters over time. Casters out dph aps characters, usually.

thumbs wrote: »

Most classes are often best off using debuffs.

This is true enough, but squads need a balance. Too many debuffers and not enough dd to capitalize on the debuffs and its no good. On the other hand lots of dd isn't as good as slightly less dd but good debuffs to amplify that dd.

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands

Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »

Want an example closer to home? Compare Razor Feather's with Wield Thunder. Wield Thunder gets 3k more damage and is faster to cast.

You compare 2 different skills with different sort of damage, wield do magic damage and razor physical damage.

Sakubatou - Sanctuary

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands wrote: »

You compare 2 different skills with different sort of damage, wield do magic damage and razor physical damage.

Its what he asked for, lol. He wanted an inverse channeling:dmg ratio.

NeonZephyr - Archosaur

Yeah im an attack cleric, building for pk and I gotta say clerics can kick some a**, but to keep up with the constant damage output of other classes you will need to be geared well with high refines for survivability, in a squad with another cleric or a good mystic i love swapping to DD/support.

Clerics are good alrounders, we can tank some magic bosses, DD, debuff, solo a fair bit of shi* and support, to get by as a cleric you gotta heal though, sorry if i replied too late or this has already been said i didnt get a chance to read the whole thread so no flames please lol

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