Bypassing as an archer.

Ruvil - Sanctuary

http://youtu.be/KATfzj4HDmc?hd=1

I'm sure those of you who played demon have known for a long time, or have at least had experiential knowledge. Never bothered to try and prove it till now though.

if you don't know what I'm talking about figure it out from vid b:thanks

As much as I would like to say that this only occurs w/ demon QS's 1st two hits I have been able to replicate this w/ a 5k stunning arrow followed by 5k normal (same target) though I didn't record, and cleary does not function with all skill (ex: KB). (I sound like fermat )

That said based off experience I have noticed this occurs much more frequently w/ demon QS proc, and only on the 1st two hits, I actually never noticed it w/ any other skills, though it may have always functioned w/ certain ones such as stun.

/inb4itsjustlag

Burnout - Harshlands

This used to happen soooo often on my wiz back when I had lesser gear. The 2nd cast nirvana bows just destroyed TT99/event gears.

Niteshadows - Harshlands

Make a sin.b:victory

Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973

I'm pretty sure its basically the same mechanism that allows you to shoot a low level mob twice.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DoiVopaP_CY

The transition from skills into normal shots is a funny thing. I don't think you really need APS for it since archers have been complaining about wasting an extra arrow on mobs since the beginning of the game.

Quilue - Sanctuary

Interesting you get the second attack with Deadly Shot, but not Take Aim. This makes me wonder if Deadly Shot would be better for bypassing attempts. I just use Take Aim for chi anyway.

Ruvil - Sanctuary

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

I'm pretty sure its basically the same mechanism that allows you to shoot a low level mob twice.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DoiVopaP_CY

The transition from skills into normal shots is a funny thing. I don't think you really need APS for it since archers have been complaining about wasting an extra arrow on mobs since the beginning of the game.

I dont think its aps based either (in vid ruvi had .8 base aps as she was partially naked b:dirty), as its only from QS --> norm atks, or I guess you could say skill --> norm atks though it does not work for all skills...

I'm more interested in if PW counts the 2 attacks as a single attack in terms of charm ticking/bypass, application is like fighting 10k hp cleric at 7k hp if you qs proc (or i guess some other skills work as well) and deal 3.5k and 3k dmg they will die while if you just normal atk 3.5k and 3k they will tick and may shell/sleep/s key/ad etc...

in your clip mob takes 48k *is dieing* then 61k *and is dead* I wonder if this indicates that whisper shot --> norm would count as 1 hit in terms of charm/or if it is in fact just 'lag'.

anyways I was just tired of ppl saying stuff like "how often do you use all 6 seconds of QS proc?" (NEVER DUH! unless they SUCK, no one is goign to sit there for 6 seconds and let you make them into a pin cushion!! thats not the point!! p.s. dont even say aim low =.=) when thats not really the point of QS (though since this is replicable w/ other skills I guess its not QS specific...) . Granted now days w/ R9/JOSD QS is less of an adv then it used to be, however is still extremely useful in 1v1/vs LA/AA.


and now im just clearly going to go off topic...

Arguements like you need 18 sec or w/e of demon barrage to get in an extra hit over sage are "ok..." as they make sense on paper but the real ingame benefit is when you see some1 in your demon barrage die despite popping AD (sure they are not the greatest players if they take ~2 sec to hit AD but more kills is more kills, and sure ppl pop AD and die in a sage barrage too, just less often given the same circumstances) and that you only need to be barraging for LESS time to get the same amount of hits off.

theory can suck it.

2m doesnt mean **** if you understand range, motion, and casting time. granted if a sage and demon archer are BOTH good then the sage shouldn't take first hit, but the demon should be able to prevent getting hit first as well (baring some cost to the opponent like holypath/alacrity which woudlnt be worth the 1st hit) (also the fight would look really stupid and you'd end up from west archo to city of lost but you could do it). and while 1st hit is an advantage its not really that big a deal, easy to minimize, and you can eat a stunning arrow (idk why youd open stunning arrow first) to the face and make it so your opponent has to spend most of stun time moving forward after cast so they only get in 1 hit which shouldn't kill you (ofc purge chance)

Mooooooooo - Lost City

i thought we figured this out when people noticed sin can do this like 2 years ago... For archer it would just depend on the cast time of the skill...

Ruvil - Sanctuary

Mooooooooo - Lost City wrote: »

i thought we figured this out when people noticed sin can do this like 2 years ago... For archer it would just depend on the cast time of the skill...

at the risk of looking like a total noob could you please elaborate? do you mean sins killing ppl w/ no charm tick due to attacking so fast? because my attack speed was hardly comparable to a sins and the bypass doesnt occur on the normal attacks of QS proc after 2nd hit... I dont think sins could cast a skill that should tick charm but doesnt and then have the following normal attack kill the target. (i dont think thats wat u meant though since you mentions cast time and Qui said something similar to me)

Maybe it is aps based but if I 3 spark normal attack pretty certain charm will still tick if the damage amount is appropriate.

and no this is nothing new. I'm sure most demon (and sage?) archers were well aware of this and certainly all the long term AA players were familiar. However I do think there are plenty of players who didn't know this about qs as well. either that or in all the demon vs sage threads (that ive actually read) no1 has bothered to mention this use of QS (or i just missed it), and instead focus on how sage archer should bypass charm by 'critting' or lowering max hp (2nd one actually makes some use of being sage)

would b cool if any really bored sage archer could record what happens on hit after sage QS if damage amounts are appropriate, maybe is both culti, though since it works w/ stun culti shouldn't really be deciding factor

U_Sasuke - Sanctuary

qs useless skill! only noob archers use it

shotwhointhewhat

Ruvil - Sanctuary wrote: »

would b cool if any really bored sage archer could record

Moooooooooooooooooooooooooooo should play his sage archer and make new videos.

Mooooooooo - Lost City

charm only tick periodically so u got 2 hits in between the period, simple as that.

Quilue - Sanctuary

Assuming you deal attack damage at the start of an attack and skill damage at the end of a channel time, that's still 0.6s apart. Do you see people getting their charm bypassed with ~2aps?

I doubt you deal damage at the end of cast time though, or other physical classes with like 1s cast times would be able to do this as well.

Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973

About Demon Barrage I'm pretty sure demon is still at 3s intervals but you get two attacks at once every 5 barrages (though you don't necessarily have to wait 5 barrages to get the extra barrage).

You definitely see a similar effect with Seeker Vortex since it claims to be an attack every 1.5 seconds but it is really 2 attacks every 3 seconds.

3 second intervals seem to be some sort of function of the game since all DoTs also tick at 3 second intervals (including IH, mana burn, chi siphon, etc).

I'll try to see if I can capture the Barrage behavior on video later.

EDIT: Ehh tried to capture this on video and couldn't measure it so maybe I'm wrong.
However I did notice that the average barrage interval is actually 2.3s for demon barrage and not 2.5s. I'm not sure about other barrages.