Cleric and Cleric duo team?! Thoughts?

educe

Hi all,

My wife and I are about to start new chars and need some advice. Our intention is to form an awesome duo that can:

--Quest / grind well together
--be attractive to decent guilds, and be an asset in TT/fbs etc

It is worth mentioning that at this stage we are PvE only.

She is a committed Cleric, focusing on heal and magic build, that is non negotiable for her lol.

So the quesiton is... What do I go for? I am thinking of doing another Cleric, here is my reasoning

-- I know the smart thing to do is build a tank Barb... But I just hate playing as a barb... Sorry.
-- I know I could build a tank BM or something else, but frankly if I want to tank ill cut the cr*p and play as a Barb... I know its possible to build tank BMs but I don't have the patience / brain power to focus on Aps etc.
-- two cleric's are better than one on dungeon runs, so we should be an asset to guilds/squads
-- I could do some research and build my cleric in such a way as to complement her (almost) pure mag build... Perhaps not a nuke build cos I want to be able to heal effectively as 2nd cleric, but maybe a bit more DD than her?

So... What are people's oughts on a committed cleric duo? Will we be in demand and have a good time?

Thanks!

Prophete - Dreamweaver

I would advise something else:

You go Mystic (pure mag), she goes Cleric (pure mag, or add some vit if she's not a pro player).
A cleric duo isn't needed honestly.
Mystic has some nice complementary heals, but you'll be able to deal some great damages too.

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands

Prophete - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I would advise something else:

You go Mystic (pure mag), she goes Cleric (pure mag, or add some vit if she's not a pro player).
A cleric duo isn't needed honestly.
Mystic has some nice complementary heals, but you'll be able to deal some great damages too.

^ I think the same thing or a veno.

VenusArmani - Dreamweaver

Thirding the mystic. You'll be able to rez buff her for one thing, so you two should be able to keep each other up in any squad you're in. You'll be also able to back up heal when she needs you to do so, but you'll be able to focus more on DD as well. If a mob aggros her and nobody is paying attention, you'll be able to send your pet in to protect her until a proper tank arrives without missing too much of the action.

Sakubatou - Sanctuary

Two clerics aren't wanted in squads. And really, the only person who wants a mystic in squad is the cleric, lol.

Most players have a natural playstyle they gravitate towards. For instance, I prefer melee characters (except cleric) and dislike playing my archer. I know the class well enough but it takes will power to avoid getting into melee range and hacking down my opponent, rather than ranging and kiting.

So if your wife wasn't playing a mystic what class would you pick? Squad look for barbs, clerics, sins, bms, and venos mostly. A cleric can buy a position in a squad for someone the squad doesn't really need though (For instance cleric + psychic, they'll be willing to invite the psy to get the cleric).

The idea of a tank class is somewhat antiquated, also. My BM was a tank bm with 3 vit. Sins are LA classes with 3 vit that tank most things. Nowadays the tank is whoever does the most dd.

I'd go with cleric and aps bm since they're both useful classes and you cover healer, dd, and tank.

VenusArmani - Dreamweaver

Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »

Two clerics aren't wanted in squads. And really, the only person who wants a mystic in squad is the cleric, lol.

Most players have a natural playstyle they gravitate towards. For instance, I prefer melee characters (except cleric) and dislike playing my archer. I know the class well enough but it takes will power to avoid getting into melee range and hacking down my opponent, rather than ranging and kiting.

So if your wife wasn't playing a mystic what class would you pick? Squad look for barbs, clerics, sins, bms, and venos mostly. A cleric can buy a position in a squad for someone the squad doesn't really need though (For instance cleric + psychic, they'll be willing to invite the psy to get the cleric).

The idea of a tank class is somewhat antiquated, also. My BM was a tank bm with 3 vit. Sins are LA classes with 3 vit that tank most things. Nowadays the tank is whoever does the most dd.

I'd go with cleric and aps bm since they're both useful classes and you cover healer, dd, and tank.

He's already ruled out tanking. He doesn't want a barb or bm. And as you said people will take the mystic if they come with the cleric for the most part. And there plenty of squads that will take a mystic when he's by himself as long as he's capable of solo healing the instance.

MrMelvin - Heavens Tear

Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »

Two clerics aren't wanted in squads. And really, the only person who wants a mystic in squad is the cleric, lol.

I agree that 2 Clerics aren't wanted in squads but completely disagree with you saying the only person who wants a Mystic in a squad is a Cleric. I don't know if you squad with Mystics but that statement is pretty stupid, Mystics are good in every instance and I get invited to squads all the time so your point is kinda invalid.

So if your wife wasn't playing a mystic what class would you pick? Squad look for barbs, clerics, sins, bms, and venos mostly.

You obviously meant shes playing a Cleric. Again I don't agree with the statement of what squads look for, Generally squads just look for members... Healers (meaning both Cleric and Mystic) tanks (BM/Seeker/Barb) and DDs meaning everything else. I have never seen people looking for specific classes other than Nirvana and Caster Nirvana and I have been playing since closed beta.

I'd go with cleric and aps bm since they're both useful classes and you cover healer, dd, and tank.

He said that he doesn't want to play a BM so not very helpful there.

My replies are obviously in green.

To the OP, I would also suggest a Mystic, you seem to want to play the support role also since you thought of a Cleric but a Mystic would be much better to support your wife and also cover the damage aspect nicely.

Sakubatou - Sanctuary

MrMelvin - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I agree that 2 Clerics aren't wanted in squads but completely disagree with you saying the only person who wants a Mystic in a squad is a Cleric. I don't know if you squad with Mystics but that statement is pretty stupid, Mystics are good in every instance and I get invited to squads all the time so your point is kinda invalid.

I actually like the mystic as a class, but other than Resurrect buff they bring little to a squad. Their damage is mediocre. Their pets are mediocre. Their main buff is res which is only useful if you are planning to die. Their aoes are especially frustrating because they can cause silence, scattering the mobs and making it difficult for other dd's to aoe. Many times I've seen the mystic cause the squad to do less damage than if the squad only had 5 people.

I would take a mystic as a healer for many instances. But even if a mystic can offer the same amount of hp healed, it can't offer cleric buffs and the damage reduction of bb.

Many mystics use their plants wrong, which are very versatile but the debuffs the plants have are usually weaker than what other classes offer. For instance Mystics using Befuddling Creeper for a 20% debuff and overwriting other people with 40,50, or 100% debuffs.

Again, not to badmouth mystics. Some are very useful. Just as a class they pale compared to other classes because they are well rounded and not specialized. They're not heal focused, pet focused, support focused, or dd focused. They're a little bit of everything but not great at anything. When people are looking for something specific, they pass over mystics unless they can't find anyone else.
~Clerics are chosen for their heals, buffs, and bubble.
~Barbs are chosen for their buffs, aggro ability, and make ideal pullers.
~BMs offer a physical defense buff that saves squishies but also makes it possible for even squishy Sins to tank. BMs can be backup tanks and offer HF, aps, or aoes.
~Venos have debuffs galore. Spammable 100% debuffs and 30% amps and a 30% curse. Their bramble helps keep aggro on the tank and the cleric safe. At low levels their pets can tank bosses.
~Sins offer paint, which can offer more heals than a cleric. Sins also allow squads to bypass some guards. They are the highest 1v1 dd in the game.

Psychics, Mystics, Archers, Wizards, and Seekers all bring other things to the table but in a standard instances are second picks usually. Any instance can be done with any class setup, but the ones I listed above are preferred for most instances, and if you count that's 5 spots leaving 1 second stringer.

MrMelvin - Heavens Tear wrote: »

You obviously meant shes playing a Cleric. Again I don't agree with the statement of what squads look for, Generally squads just look for members... Healers (meaning both Cleric and Mystic) tanks (BM/Seeker/Barb) and DDs meaning everything else. I have never seen people looking for specific classes other than Nirvana and Caster Nirvana and I have been playing since closed beta.

I did mean cleric. And maybe your server is different but one thing I rage at is how specific people get when making a squad.

It usually falls onto the shoulders of the caster to make the squad just to get a place in one.

MrMelvin - Heavens Tear wrote: »

He said that he doesn't want to play a BM so not very helpful there.

He said he doesn't want to build a tank bm. I was offering that bms aren't so stereotyped to be only tank, or only dd, or only support. BMs make excellent aoe dds, 1v1 dds, tanks, or support. Since he's knew he may want to be a dd but thought BMs had to chose tank or dd, which they don't.

educe

Thank you all so much your help, really given me something to work with. I hope I can be as useful to 'noobs' when I'm higher lvl

mrcharlytoo

What about a seeker?

Their damage, aoe or 1v1, is pretty good. They can tank. They can debuff. Pretty versatile.

With a cleric healing, a seeker, even at low levels, would be awesome aoe.

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands

Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »

I actually like the mystic as a class, but other than Resurrect buff they bring little to a squad. Their damage is mediocre. Their pets are mediocre. Their main buff is res which is only useful if you are planning to die. Their aoes are especially frustrating because they can cause silence, scattering the mobs and making it difficult for other dd's to aoe. Many times I've seen the mystic cause the squad to do less damage than if the squad only had 5 people.

You probably never saw a mystic with Invigorate then.
Mystic have better damage than some other caster class.
Our mediocre pets are the only pet that have a AoE.
You meet really bad mystics, but all mystics are not bad.

Edit: correct the typos.

MrMelvin - Heavens Tear

Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »

I actually like the mystic as a class, but other than Resurrect buff they bring little to a squad. Their damage is mediocre. Their pets are mediocre. Their main buff is res which is only useful if you are planning to die. Their aoes are especially frustrating because they can cause silence, scattering the mobs and making it difficult for other dd's to aoe. Many times I've seen the mystic cause the squad to do less damage than if the squad only had 5 people.

I agree with what Bella said so I won't comment further.

Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »

I would take a mystic as a healer for many instances. But even if a mystic can offer the same amount of hp healed, it can't offer cleric buffs and the damage reduction of bb.

Many mystics use their plants wrong, which are very versatile but the debuffs the plants have are usually weaker than what other classes offer. For instance Mystics using Befuddling Creeper for a 20% debuff and overwriting other people with 40,50, or 100% debuffs.

I understand what you are saying but when used correctly they can do an equal job with regards to BB. A shield which absorbs 4k damage on the tank, with with a lysed Spidervine on the pull then summon both healing plants, HP bars tend not to move plus when they get sage/demon version of Salvation they also have Warp Shield for even more protection.

But what I've noticed when playing my Cleric and squadding with Mystics is they don't talk. When playing my Mystic I ask if they want me to debuff single targets so I don't annoy people. Communication is key but often gets ignored with players in this game.

Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »

Again, not to badmouth mystics. Some are very useful. Just as a class they pale compared to other classes because they are well rounded and not specialized. They're not heal focused, pet focused, support focused, or dd focused. They're a little bit of everything but not great at anything. When people are looking for something specific, they pass over mystics unless they can't find anyone else.

They are great at everything you mentioned, healing and DD'ing at the same time! With the way that everyone plays now that they want everything dead quick as they can it makes sense to have a Mystic no?

Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »

I did mean cleric. And maybe your server is different but one thing I rage at is how specific people get when making a squad.

It usually falls onto the shoulders of the caster to make the squad just to get a place in one.

I would say the only classes which seem to have a hard time getting squads (say for FF) on HT would be Veno, Wizard and Archer.

Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »

He said he doesn't want to build a tank bm. I was offering that bms aren't so stereotyped to be only tank, or only dd, or only support. BMs make excellent aoe dds, 1v1 dds, tanks, or support. Since he's knew he may want to be a dd but thought BMs had to chose tank or dd, which they don't.

He actually said he doesn't have the patience/brain power to focus on APS either which is why I said it ↓ and also if he wanted to tank he would make a barb.

educe wrote: »

-- I know I could build a tank BM or something else, but frankly if I want to tank ill cut the cr*p and play as a Barb... I know its possible to build tank BMs but I don't have the patience / brain power to focus on Aps etc.

Elanxu - Dreamweaver

Prophete - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I would advise something else:

You go Mystic (pure mag), she goes Cleric (pure mag, or add some vit if she's not a pro player).
A cleric duo isn't needed honestly.
Mystic has some nice complementary heals, but you'll be able to deal some great damages too.

this is a good idea.

basically, as 2 clerics, buffs overlap, and certain things u will be weak against, such as metal mobs (plume shot takes long). it is nice that u will be able to heal each other, but i think a mystic and cleric will do better.

and theres always the classic barb and cleric. except if the barb isnt good and the cleric dies, theres no one to rez them. thats the only problem w that.

Cathulion - Dreamweaver

Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »

Two clerics aren't wanted in squads. And really, the only person who wants a mystic in squad is the cleric, lol.

So true. As a 5aps'r I feel there must only be 1 healer in the group(cleric) followed up by tank then DD'rs to be a sufficient fast run. But I'm ok with 2 healers too, just prefer the standard way.

Dispelle - Harshlands

Personally as a healer, I just feel a little more secure if I have a backup healer in the squad with me just in case disaster strikes for some odd reason. b:chuckle
If your wife is the same way, this might be an additional reason for rolling a mystic; all the reasons mentioned above, plus her peace of mind (if applicable).

Sakubatou - Sanctuary

Dispelle - Harshlands wrote: »

Personally as a healer, I just feel a little more secure if I have a backup healer in the squad with me just in case disaster strikes for some odd reason. b:chuckle
If your wife is the same way, this might be an additional reason for rolling a mystic; all the reasons mentioned above, plus her peace of mind (if applicable).

Meh. The idea is if everyone can do their job by themselves you open up more spaces for DD, squad versatility, and efficiancy. Having a backup healer is nice, but that means one less serious dd/debuffer in the squad (not saying a mystic or cleric can't dd, just not as optimally as many other classes).

By this logic, lets bring two tanks and two healers so we have a backup of both. Lets also bring two venos in case one of them doesn't keep debuffs up or can't pet pull fast enough...

I know there are vana runs where we don't need a healer but we bring one because they're a friend. Even though it slows down the run by a minute or two its not a big deal because the runs become more relaxed. You're getting heals, not worrying about your own hp. You have debuffs and purifies. So I get that more healing might make things relaxed but you'll often find squads that aren't happy that you took up a squad spot just because you weren't sure you could survive or solo heal like is expected of you. They might as well just kick and replace the first healer with a healer that can do the job solo.

Edit: I also wanted to make a point on squad space. I like to build my squads along these lines: Tank, cleric/healer, sin, bm, 2 spots for other but one should be a debuffer. Before level 80 or 90 aps isn't a big deal but afterwards the speed and ease of boss killing makes people favor sins/bms as dds and many squads will have multiple, but I try to give a spot or two for casters/ranged dd even though they overall aren't usually as effective. Its just philanthropy and a sense of fairness that I bring them along since I know they have trouble getting into squads. and there are basically 6 non aps/ranged dd (archer, veno, psychic, wizard, mystic, seeker) that fight for one or two spots.

Clerics can find a squad in almost any squad and doubling up in one squad might rob another squad of having a cleric.

Dispelle - Harshlands

Yes, that's reasonable. It's why I don't think I'd want another cleric per se, but the mystic is a nice backup healer if it becomes necessary, while at the same time fulfilling the role as additional DD. Granted, the cleric should be able to handle most situations on her/his own, but a little bit of backup is sometimes still nice (again, not necessarily another cleric). I guess I just tend to be rather cautious. b:chuckle

clarification: I don't require a 2nd healer... I just feel a bit better when there is one

cawcawwww

A seeker and a cleric make the most powerful killing machine in PWI (on multiple targets), and complement each other in many ways. Seekers have strong aoe's to help protect clerics from heal aggro or any other mob attacks, and plenty of ranged attacks to grab cleric attacking mobs from a distance. I have played 6 different classes and also find the seeker to be loooots of fun

Make friends with a sin for bp and pulling and its all over

Suizahn - Sanctuary

I was going to reccomend an archer.

Archers have great damage (leaving out aps builds, as you stated int he first post) and the playstyle is NOTHING like a tank. And also, with a cleric healing too, will probably compensate archer's low hp/defenses,

It might be true that as an archer you will have a hard time tanking most stuff, but to be honest, you will tank easier than another cleric.

A mystic is a great option as well, for all reasons stated above. It's half cleric/half damage, with a good res buff to cast on her

(only problems is that I consider Mystics to look better when female, as well as clerics :P)

Dispelle - Harshlands

(only problems is that I consider Mystics to look better when female, as well as clerics :P)

Valid point. b:chuckle