May you mystics elaborate about the plants?

Yulk_owns - Lost City

There are questions

Punishing sting
* It seems that they are worthless to level up because you're just burning more mana than you should (is that true?), sure you get extra range but what's the point if this is true?

Befuddling creeper
* Why is this underrated and compared to other people's "better" buffs? Could anyone explain this to me? The APS and channeling debuff is 40% and AOE, the defense debuffs are lower but why bother comparing?

Spidervine
* Barely anyone uses it, why's that?

Healing herb
* This heals too little why bother casting this unless you're only healing and have salvation out?

Vital herb
*This gives just HP regen and costs a spark, wouldn't it be more convenient to use that spark to save for single spark and healing for better effects? Or energy leech?

Nowitsawn - Heavens Tear

Yulk_owns - Lost City wrote: »

Punishing sting
* It seems that they are worthless to level up because you're just burning more mana than you should (is that true?), sure you get extra range but what's the point if this is true?

Not really familiar with this one, can't elaborate.

Yulk_owns - Lost City wrote: »

Befuddling creeper
* Why is this underrated and compared to other people's "better" buffs? Could anyone explain this to me? The APS and channeling debuff is 40% and AOE, the defense debuffs are lower but why bother comparing?

Simple: it keeps overwriting all other defense debuffs while it's out. This is only really an issue in a squad, though (and even then a lot of people don't bother debuffing anyway).

Yulk_owns - Lost City wrote: »

Spidervine
* Barely anyone uses it, why's that?

It can be useful on certain bosses that can hit rather hard (e.g. TT3-X), but Befuddling's cast/attack speed debuff tends to be a bit more useful for when things get hot in a more common scenario (such as BH).

When the damage of a boss or mob isn't that threatening to begin with, lowering it even further wouldn't be that useful.

Yulk_owns - Lost City wrote: »

Healing herb
* This heals too little why bother casting this unless you're only healing and have salvation out?

It's small, but it helps. It only needs to be cast once a minute, and it heals about 7k hp during that period. It can also be used alongside other plants.

Yulk_owns - Lost City wrote: »

Vital herb
*This gives just HP regen and costs a spark, wouldn't it be more convenient to use that spark to save for single spark and healing for better effects? Or energy leech?

It heals a LOT more than the description suggests. It can be quite a lifesaver in a squad.

When solo it's not always that useful, unless you want to have some healing to back you up so you can keep DDing while it's out.

Yulk_owns - Lost City

Nowitsawn - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Not really familiar with this one, can't elaborate.

I understand, punishing sting is really confusing, it still does the same damage I am afraid.

Nowitsawn - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Simple: it keeps overwriting all other defense debuffs while it's out. This is only really an issue in a squad, though (and even then a lot of people don't bother debuffing anyway).

Yeah, it does overwrite the other defense debuffs, it does get annoying when that happens. I can agree that it is better off not to use when you face enemy targets for extra damage

Nowitsawn - Heavens Tear wrote: »

It can be useful on certain bosses that can hit rather hard (e.g. TT3-X), but Befuddling's cast/attack speed debuff tends to be a bit more useful for when things get hot in a more common scenario (such as BH).

When the damage of a boss or mob isn't that threatening to begin with, lowering it even further wouldn't be that useful.

I figured that in TT3-x is really useful to use.

Nowitsawn - Heavens Tear wrote: »

It's small, but it helps. It only needs to be cast once a minute, and it heals about 7k hp during that period. It can also be used alongside other plants.

Haven't tried that before, I'll try that out.

Nowitsawn - Heavens Tear wrote: »

It heals a LOT more than the description suggests. It can be quite a lifesaver in a squad.

When solo it's not always that useful, unless you want to have some healing to back you up so you can keep DDing while it's out.

I see, so again the description is wrong, I'll look into that as well, thanks.

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands

Yulk_owns - Lost City wrote: »

There are questions

Punishing sting
* It seems that they are worthless to level up because you're just burning more mana than you should (is that true?), sure you get extra range but what's the point if this is true?

It's personally not the plan i use the most, the range lvl 1 is 18.4m and at lvl 10 26.5m, i was using it more in FC.

Yulk_owns - Lost City wrote: »

Befuddling creeper
* Why is this underrated and compared to other people's "better" buffs? Could anyone explain this to me? The APS and channeling debuff is 40% and AOE, the defense debuffs are lower but why bother comparing?

People compare the phys. and magical debuff (20% for 6 seconds) to the others class cause it's the lowest p&m.def debuff, generally people don't care to debuff a boss channeling or APS, they prefer the debuff that make them do more damage so the boss die faster.

Yulk_owns - Lost City wrote: »

Spidervine
* Barely anyone uses it, why's that?

That should be the plant the most used for boss when there's a cleric/veno/barb in the squad. If a mystic never use it, it's cause he probably don't know his plants and when use which one.

Yulk_owns - Lost City wrote: »

Healing herb
* This heals too little why bother casting this unless you're only healing and have salvation out?

I cannot speak for other mystics, but sometime i use it only as target, example: in caster at the third boss there's 4 mobs that appear on someone and in some case that one shot the person if the person don't have good gears, but the mobs are stupid and see the plants as target, so when i put my healing herb it's a target more so a chance less the mobs appear on someone.

Yulk_owns - Lost City wrote: »

Vital herb
*This gives just HP regen and costs a spark, wouldn't it be more convenient to use that spark to save for single spark and healing for better effects? Or energy leech?

That don't just give HP regen, i don't know where you took your informations, but that plant heal and regen HP. Majority of mystics are pure magic and even not on spark their heals fully restore the HP with one heal so that would be a waste to 1 spark and heal, plus the advantage is that plant can coexist with the others plants. As i said for the healing herb, plants are target for mobs/boss. As sage in PvE i have planty of chi so a spark on that is not a waste and that can save life. Plus while the plant heal i can DD.

Energy leech have nothing to do with healing.

As i said when i say i use my plants as target, i don't know if the others mystics use it really for heal or not, the best exemple i can give is when i solo FC at the second boss some sins are unable to solo without anti-stun pots cause the get debuff, but with my plants and pet, it's 4 targets for the boss so i have 3 chances on 4 to don't be debuff which make it really more easy to do, so in that case i use my vital herb as target for not be debuff more than for heal, but if i get debuff, since i can't move and heal myself with skills i get heal by my plant.

Same for the 3rd boss in caster for the mobs, more targets for the mobs, less risk the mobs appears on someone.

Yulk_owns - Lost City

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands wrote: »

It's personally not the plan i use the most, the range lvl 1 is 18.4m and at lvl 10 26.5m, i was using it more in FC.

I use it pretty often but not the most (between befuddling creeper and spidervine I use most whenever I am soloing or multiclient)

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands wrote: »

People compare the phys. and magical debuff (20% for 6 seconds) to the others class cause it's the lowest p&m.def debuff, generally people don't care to debuff a boss channeling or APS, they prefer the debuff that make them do more damage so the boss die faster.

So I guess spidervine is better off used for squads or sting then.

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands wrote: »

That should be the plant the most used for boss when there's a cleric/veno/barb in the squad. If a mystic never use it, it's cause he probably don't know his plants and when use which one.

I would have to agree on this one, especially for certain bosses that hit hard. Unless if they are not that threatening then yeah, sting all the way.

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands wrote: »

I cannot speak for other mystics, but sometime i use it only as target, example: in caster at the third boss there's 4 mobs that appear on someone and in some case that one shot the person if the person don't have good gears, but the mobs are stupid and see the plants as target, so when i put my healing herb it's a target more so a chance less the mobs appear on someone.

Never tried doing that before either, I should try using healing herb more often.

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands wrote: »

That don't just give HP regen, i don't know where you took your informations, but that plant heal and regen HP. Majority of mystics are pure magic and even not on spark their heals fully restore the HP with one heal so that would be a waste to 1 spark and heal, plus the advantage is that plant can coexist with the others plants. As i said for the healing herb, plants are target for mobs/boss. As sage in PvE i have planty of chi so a spark on that is not a waste and that can save life. Plus while the plant heal i can DD.

I must have read the description wrong, thought it was just HP regen. I guess I was deceived by the description of the skill anyway.

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands wrote: »

Energy leech have nothing to do with healing.

I would agree to disagree, it technically does not have to deal with healing, but it can be an add on to give more of an effect to healing. Level 11 mistress energy leech grants more magic attack than single spark and even better, gives magic defense. It also adds with rapid growth giving more magic attack giving more boost which can heal for literally a lot alone.

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands wrote: »

As i said when i say i use my plants as target, i don't know if the others mystics use it really for heal or not, the best exemple i can give is when i solo FC at the second boss some sins are unable to solo without anti-stun pots cause the get debuff, but with my plants and pet, it's 4 targets for the boss so i have 3 chances on 4 to don't be debuff which make it really more easy to do, so in that case i use my vital herb as target for not be debuff more than for heal, but if i get debuff, since i can't move and heal myself with skills i get heal by my plant.

Same for the 3rd boss in caster for the mobs, more targets for the mobs, less risk the mobs appears on someone.

Really great tactic you have there, that would make the bosses confused.

Thanks for the info.

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands

Yulk_owns - Lost City wrote: »

I would agree to disagree, it technically does not have to deal with healing, but it can be an add on to give more of an effect to healing. Level 11 mistress energy leech grants more magic attack than single spark and even better, gives magic defense. It also adds with rapid growth giving more magic attack giving more boost which can heal for literally a lot alone.

Really great tactic you have there, that would make the bosses confused.

Thanks for the info.

Oh yea Mistress give more magic attack if leech, but i don't know your lvl or build, but like i said without spark or any magic attack add i can fully hp with one heal, but i guess for someone lowest than lvl 100 or with a TT90-99 that can help i guess.

You are welcome.

Brillance - Raging Tide

Is there really a big difference between healing & HP regeneration? I mean, doesn't a straight up BitC regenerate HP? Is the difference just the fact the plant is slower at it, while BitC is instant? You dont need to be actually casting a heal for the plant to do anything, so to say its just an aid to healing could confuse someone...ijs.

I've dropped Healing Herb at Runewolf in FC. It works as a target plant there too just before he starts his AoEs. It's not fail safe, but can help alot. Ive seen it take all the AoE more than once, but again, you really can't depend on it to do that everytime.

MrMelvin - Heavens Tear

Yulk_owns - Lost City wrote: »

There are questions

Punishing sting
* It seems that they are worthless to level up because you're just burning more mana than you should (is that true?), sure you get extra range but what's the point if this is true?

It is pretty worthless to level this up IMO, all that increases is the range it seems, I never really used it for FF heads either. Best to just leave it at level 1 until you have spirit to waste on it.

Yulk_owns - Lost City wrote: »

Befuddling creeper
* Why is this underrated and compared to other people's "better" buffs? Could anyone explain this to me? The APS and channeling debuff is 40% and AOE, the defense debuffs are lower but why bother comparing?

Why bother comparing? Because if another player has a better debuff then obviously better debuff is better... It is best used in AOE circumstances IMO, RB, PV or just depending on what type of squad you have, might not have a sin, veno, barb or cleric so these debuffs are a substitute for it. You might also have a squad who does not debuff so again substitute.

Yulk_owns - Lost City wrote: »

Spidervine
* Barely anyone uses it, why's that?

I think players just prefer to use Befuddling, I never really use this myself either.

Yulk_owns - Lost City wrote: »

Healing herb
* This heals too little why bother casting this unless you're only healing and have salvation out?

A heal is a heal. Healing herb can be good to heal up the squad who get hit by a random AOE or DOT damage. Its not the best for healing overall but has its uses. I wish they made a sage/demon version which increased the healing effect or added a chance to AOE purify but meh.

Yulk_owns - Lost City wrote: »

Vital herb
*This gives just HP regen and costs a spark, wouldn't it be more convenient to use that spark to save for single spark and healing for better effects? Or energy leech?

A spark should always be saved for Vital. Sometimes Vital is more useful to drop than using a spark burst. Again as a sage mystic chi is nothing so you really shouldn't be worried about using a spark.

If you read the Ecatomb skill description it says "Summons a Vital Herb, which restores HP to nearby friends every second and increases their HP recovery by 50 points per second" so it has a heal and also increases HP recovery which is the standard healing your character does when standing still, slowly coming back over time. 50 per second for 20 seconds is an added 1k HP on top of the built in heal so yeah brilliant.

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands

Brillance - Raging Tide wrote: »

Is there really a big difference between healing & HP regeneration? I mean, doesn't a straight up BitC regenerate HP? Is the difference just the fact the plant is slower at it, while BitC is instant? You dont need to be actually casting a heal for the plant to do anything, so to say its just an aid to healing could confuse someone...ijs.

HP regeneration is when your HP go up without heal, ex: if you fight a mob and lose some HP, but don't heal yourself and wait, your HP will slowly get up alone, it's regeneration, cleric have a buff for that HP&MP regeneration, which mean both regenerate more fast, but that doesn't heal.

Ex: At low lvl people that do quest mobs, but don't have pots will meditate to boost the regeneration and get back more fast HP&MP. Meditate boost the regeneration, but doesn't heal.

Vital plant give a big regeneration (50 HP each second) and also heal.

BitC recover your HP, but doesn't regenerate it.

I hope that answer your question.

daubert

Yulk_owns - Lost City wrote: »

Punishing sting
* It seems that they are worthless to level up because you're just burning more mana than you should (is that true?), sure you get extra range but what's the point if this is true?

According to tests done by other mystics (and reported in this forum) the damage goes up as the level goes up. For example, Level 1 Punishing Sting won't 1-shot FC heads. Level 10 Punishing Sting will.

Like other pets, Punishing Sting does full damage against Level 150 opponents. That makes it a good damage dealer under those conditions.

Yulk_owns - Lost City wrote: »

Befuddling creeper
* Why is this underrated and compared to other people's "better" buffs? Could anyone explain this to me? The APS and channeling debuff is 40% and AOE, the defense debuffs are lower but why bother comparing?

The following classes can cast a better PDef debuff:
Venomancer (single target)
Barbarian (single target)
Cleric (singe target)
Polearm Blademasters (AE, costs 2 sparks)

The following classes can cast a better MDef debuff:
Venomancer (single target)
Cleric (singe target)
Polearm Blademasters (AE, costs 2 sparks)

Therefore, the Mystic should only use Befuddling under the following situations:
The classes with better debuffs aren't in the squad
The other classes aren't using their debuffs
The squad is using AE tactics (casting/Lysing Befuddling Creeper is a good AE debuff)

Yulk_owns - Lost City wrote: »

Spidervine
* Barely anyone uses it, why's that?

It's rarely the best option. When it is the best option, many mystics don't use it because they're not accustomed to using it.

Yulk_owns - Lost City wrote: »

Healing herb
* This heals too little why bother casting this unless you're only healing and have salvation out?

If there are lot of unaggroed mobs, it allows you to give some healing to your squad without drawing lots of agro to yourself. (If there's any heal agro, the plant gets the agro instead.)

Experienced Mystics have referred to the Healing Herb / Vital Herb combination as the "Mystic BB". The two effects stack.

Yulk_owns - Lost City wrote: »

Vital herb
*This gives just HP regen and costs a spark, wouldn't it be more convenient to use that spark to save for single spark and healing for better effects? Or energy leech?

As others have said this heals and gives HP regen. It heals a lot of damage.

Brillance - Raging Tide

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands wrote: »

HP regeneration is when your HP go up without heal, ex: if you fight a mob and lose some HP, but don't heal yourself and wait, your HP will slowly get up alone, it's regeneration, cleric have a buff for that HP&MP regeneration, which mean both regenerate more fast, but that doesn't heal.

Ex: At low lvl people that do quest mobs, but don't have pots will meditate to boost the regeneration and get back more fast HP&MP. Meditate boost the regeneration, but doesn't heal.

Vital plant give a big regeneration (50 HP each second) and also heal.

BitC recover your HP, but doesn't regenerate it.

I hope that answer your question.

I can't say its crystal clear, but yes. It was very helpful. b:thanks

Brillance - Raging Tide

daubert wrote: »

According to tests done by other mystics (and reported in this forum) the damage goes up as the level goes up. For example, Level 1 Punishing Sting won't 1-shot FC heads. Level 10 Punishing Sting will.

Like other pets, Punishing Sting does full damage against Level 150 opponents. That makes it a good damage dealer under those conditions.


The following classes can cast a better PDef debuff:
Venomancer (single target)
Barbarian (single target)
Cleric (singe target)
Polearm Blademasters (AE, costs 2 sparks)

The following classes can cast a better MDef debuff:
Venomancer (single target)
Cleric (singe target)
Polearm Blademasters (AE, costs 2 sparks)

Therefore, the Mystic should only use Befuddling under the following situations:
The classes with better debuffs aren't in the squad
The other classes aren't using their debuffs
The squad is using AE tactics (casting/Lysing Befuddling Creeper is a good AE debuff)


It's rarely the best option. When it is the best option, many mystics don't use it because they're not accustomed to using it.


If there are lot of unaggroed mobs, it allows you to give some healing to your squad without drawing lots of agro to yourself. (If there's any heal agro, the plant gets the agro instead.)

Experienced Mystics have referred to the Healing Herb / Vital Herb combination as the "Mystic BB". The two effects stack.


As others have said this heals and gives HP regen. It heals a lot of damage.

Awesome post, daubert! I finally understand why BMs get sooo mad when we overwrite them. Anything that cost me 2 sparks and got wasted would have me PO'd too. I wasn't really buying the slightly stronger argument, but the sparks makes it make perfect sense.

Lots of other great info as well. Thanks!

AlysonRose - Heavens Tear

Punishing sting is very situational. If you already have devil on a magic resist mob way over there and there is another one over here and its gonna take more than one absorb soul to kill it the extra bit of damage helps.

I wish it wouldn't automatically try to target what you are attacking even if its out of range and there are other targets in range that it will ignore.

The aoe with lysing if you spam it is good in RB as oppsed to spamming NV when thicket/crag on CD and mistress already doing her thing.

Creeper is something that ideally you would use on every mob you needed more than one attack to kill, but that would be tedious so its mainly for aoe debuffing.

However, I rarely ever see other classes debuffing AT ALL aside from HF and AD (assuming the veno knows about foxform). Rarely, and I mean RARELY I will see a barb use (I think its sunder?) to lower pdef, or a veno use ironwood. Only time I typically see a cleric debuff anything is in casters because people like to take 2 of them when they are undergeared.

If I see that blue sparkle debuff icon, and I didn't put it there, I don't use creeper. But when its been about 3 min and I haven't seen it pop up again, with 2 clerics and another mystic sometimes, I sigh and use creeper.

Spidervine isn't even on my skillbars. The movement speed debuff is irrelevant in all situations as NV and sage GF already proc it 100%. The attack rate debuff is nice in theory, but aside from a very few situations mobs don't have much aps, and the obligatory sin in every non RB squad already should be using ribstrike. The chan debuff is also irrelevant. Just like is is on psys for PVE. Hitting someone with spidervine, or any plant debuff, in pvp takes a bit of luck and skill. Of your options spidervine is the least desirable.

Also it takes 30chi to cast it, so its probably the worst use of your chi outside of Listless Blossom. Blossom is pretty useless in PVE outside of the rare situation of their being a group of mobs killing a squad member and you have the time to cast and lys it in time.

As opposed to using galeforce to draw aggro/interrupt, or healing them, or using a stun etc. Sleep as a debuff is useless outside of 1v1 imo. The duration blossom provides is almost not worth mentioning though compared to clerics. If you try and cast blossom at a group of unprovoked mobs they will run right at you, easily evading the pathetic range of the plant. So even if you get the drop on something with it, they can just causally run away from it and you have wasted 30 chi. Its why it along with spidervine aren't on my skill bars.

Healing herb is useless. It does what is says it does, but the only thing I use it for is at the beginning of a bh when people are still arriving and the barb is buffing them one at a time. I pop it out and it tops off people's HP as they file in and the barb goes back and forth from tiger rather than wasting mp with separate heals.

Any time you need to heal more than one person, use mist or vital. Healing herb will die in a strong breeze and that ~7k hp healing over a minute is not worth losing the use of creeper or sting assuming you use either at all since you are obviously needed to heal.

Wasting mp for a heal that does over a full minute (assuming it lives and the squad actually stays in range for 1 min) for the hp you can heal in a few seconds is just illogical.

Vital is excellent, its like having another healer. It means you can focus on the mobs, or that you can get double the aoe heals/frees you up to do individual petal buffs/spot heals with break.

Sadly it cannot defend itself. Its best used for situations where the cleric has broken off to heal the sin or bm, and the barb has decided to say "lolz imma gonna ignore the mobs I just gathered and go gather 15 more and never bring them back because everyone should be able to run at my speed."

Basically if everyone is gonna break into several groups to kill several groups of mobs because they weren't rounded up properly you pop out vital somewhere in the middle of the action after the mobs are aggroed.

uncleblademaster

Punishing Sting does seem useless. Although it's useful for FC and at higher levels it can be maxed easily.

Befuddling Creeper is a great plant and people underrate/complain about it because they only see the bad in it.

Spidervine...another great plant. Ma y avoid it because it requires Chi to cast.

Healing Herb is used because it AoE heals and doesn't cost Chi.

Vital Herb/Healing Herbs saves squads and for any Mystic doing a solo heal job..Vital Herb is always useful. Also healing plants can't be lysed.


P

daubert

Brillance - Raging Tide wrote: »

I wasn't really buying the slightly stronger argument, but the sparks makes it make perfect sense.

I'd say the other debuffs are more than just slightly stronger.

VM Human (Myriad Rainbow) does either 0% or 100% debuff to PDef/MDef.
VM Fox Form (Myriad Rainbow) does the same, but AE.
Polearm BM (Glacial Spike) does 50% debuff to PDef/MDef ... AE
Barb Tiger (Devour) does 50% debuff to PDef
Barb Human (Penetrate Armor) does 35% (D) or 45% (S) debuff to PDef
Cleric (Elemental Seal) does a 40% debuff to MDef, but also debuffs the cleric.
VM Human (Ironwood Scarab) does 40% debuff to PDef. Demon version has a small chance for 100%
Cleric (Dimensional Seal) does a 35% debuff to PDef, but also debuffs the cleric.

Mystic (Befuddling Herb) does a 0% or 20% debuff to PDef/MDef

Those are big differences.

It's easy enough to communicate with the other members of the squad and see whether they'll be using their debuffs, or if they'd prefer that you use yours. If they don't bother to answer your question (which happens too much), you can assume they won't bother to debuff either.

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands

daubert wrote: »

I'd say the other debuffs are more than just slightly stronger.

VM Human (Myriad Rainbow) does either 0% or 100% debuff to PDef/MDef.
VM Fox Form (Myriad Rainbow) does the same, but AE.
Polearm BM (Glacial Spike) does 50% debuff to PDef/MDef ... AE
Barb Tiger (Devour) does 50% debuff to PDef
Barb Human (Penetrate Armor) does 35% (D) or 45% (S) debuff to PDef
Cleric (Elemental Seal) does a 40% debuff to MDef, but also debuffs the cleric.
VM Human (Ironwood Scarab) does 40% debuff to PDef. Demon version has a small chance for 100%
Cleric (Dimensional Seal) does a 35% debuff to PDef, but also debuffs the cleric.

Mystic (Befuddling Herb) does a 0% or 20% debuff to PDef/MDef

Those are big differences.

It's easy enough to communicate with the other members of the squad and see whether they'll be using their debuffs, or if they'd prefer that you use yours. If they don't bother to answer your question (which happens too much), you can assume they won't bother to debuff either.

Cleric Dimensional seal do 40% and Elemental seal 35% and the cleric that debuff can purify himself.

Cleric Dimensional seal sage is better than venomancer Ironwood scarab sage since it's both 40%, but the cleric is for 25 sec vs 20 for the venomancer.

Brillance - Raging Tide

daubert wrote: »

I'd say the other debuffs are more than just slightly stronger.

VM Human (Myriad Rainbow) does either 0% or 100% debuff to PDef/MDef.
VM Fox Form (Myriad Rainbow) does the same, but AE.
Polearm BM (Glacial Spike) does 50% debuff to PDef/MDef ... AE
Barb Tiger (Devour) does 50% debuff to PDef
Barb Human (Penetrate Armor) does 35% (D) or 45% (S) debuff to PDef
Cleric (Elemental Seal) does a 40% debuff to MDef, but also debuffs the cleric.
VM Human (Ironwood Scarab) does 40% debuff to PDef. Demon version has a small chance for 100%
Cleric (Dimensional Seal) does a 35% debuff to PDef, but also debuffs the cleric.

Mystic (Befuddling Herb) does a 0% or 20% debuff to PDef/MDef

Those are big differences.

It's easy enough to communicate with the other members of the squad and see whether they'll be using their debuffs, or if they'd prefer that you use yours. If they don't bother to answer your question (which happens too much), you can assume they won't bother to debuff either.

That's all well and good, but, the Mystic was my first leveled char, and BM's used to get pretty nasty with me when I overwrote their debuffs. I, of course, was just playing my Mystic the best I knew how, and learning what this thing or that does.

They all claimed they were upset because their debuffs were stronger - same with discussions here about it. Okay, their debuff is stronger by why the need to rage?

No one EVER ingame or in these forum discussions brought forth the opinion that their debuffs were stronger AND costs 2 sparks to cast - I may not know what every single char can and cant do, but the costing 2 sparks to cast is something a newb Mystic could easily relate to and understand. b:victory

I have never had any other char get mad at me for using my plants. That could be because they weren't bothering to use their debuffs, or because it didnt bother them that much. *shrugs*

In other MMOs I have played where debuffs were available, the game was set up for the stronger debuff to auto-win, so to speak. So, it wouldn't matter if I cast a lesser debuff -as overwriting with something not as good wasn't possible.