So...Now that barbs are needed again~
StarStrukkk - Heavens Tear
Posts: 43 Arc User
How does it feel to have some power?b:laugh
Post edited by StarStrukkk - Heavens Tear on
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awesome0
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What changed for barbs?0
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intances.... nuff said0
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Even before the change; I was building my barb up. I just couldn't understand the dismay other barbs were having during the aps craze. There were only a few barbs it seemed that valued their contribution as a puller / aoe god and they were the ones I jumped at the opportunity to squad with.
The new power? -Love it! Would have been happy without it.Be kind: Help the GMs to depopulate the servers.0 -
<- still runs the new/changed instances no barb 80% of the timeGifs are hard to make work here0
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Wait. Where are they "needed"?
Choose carefully, given the definition of the word "needed".pwcalc.com/bb6fc16982637a5c / pwcalc.com/28948ee5778526f50 -
Us sins are the most hated...but the meanest comments I see around here are BMs b:laugh
Our squad is happy to have our own barb that knows his class well and does some really cool stuff.
He gets a bit pull crazy at times and we need to discipline him...but otherwise, kitty is awesome.
And no idea why I posted this on my GFs character.0 -
Trinica - Momaganon wrote: »Us sins are the most hated...but the meanest comments I see around here are BMs b:laugh
Our squad is happy to have our own barb that knows his class well and does some really cool stuff.
He gets a bit pull crazy at times and we need to discipline him...but otherwise, kitty is awesome.
And no idea why I posted this on my GFs character.
Its habit, last time barbs went on ego trips they started demanding exorbitant fee's for doing things like TT (first pick on everything getting the gold mat to themselves etc) any DPS class that played in ye olden days learned to run just about every instance no barb. Dps's got tanky and super DPSy, barbs got emo and refused to change (I loves chu clawbarians though) now the bads need barbs again.
So ya rubbing the not needed factor in vit barbs faces in pve is traditional for anyone who's seen a +2 leg 79/77 barb try and **** the gold mat from a tt.
To be fair though I also developed a hate for powermad clerics as wellGifs are hard to make work here0 -
No, I like have a Barb I love very much. I just can't find a *need* for him anywhere other than pullin cats.
Unless they like, significantly upped the aggro of the aggro skills of barbs in the last patch - I don't know of a *need*.pwcalc.com/bb6fc16982637a5c / pwcalc.com/28948ee5778526f50 -
Considering not everyone spends money from their daddys wallet. The other people still rely on barbs to get BH done, aswell as other instances, like full warsong.
Although not everyone require one, but the same goes for a bm, can still get things done without one, they just happen to go more smoothely with one.
How often do you see squads in WC looking for a barb to get bh done? Then you get stubborn BM's who claim they can tank and do what the barb can, squad wipes breaks, finds another squad lol.
If everyone could afford R9/OP gear, then barbs would still probably be useless. But not everyone can, the people in here who say they arent needed are the ones who pour a bunch of money in the game lol. Obviously, Its not just Barbs that are needed, takes a good squad with different classes to get things done.
/inb4 r9 can be easily farmed/merched
Barbs have also gotten a frontal AoE skill from AEU that helps a lot in holding aggro.
Needed again, meaning people require them more than they did before.
You would also consider finding any kind of geared barb easier than finding a r9 BM, or a squad who is capable of completing the quests, for whatever it may be. Not all sins/BMs can tank/solo/get into a capable squad without a barb.0 -
StarStrukkk - Heavens Tear wrote: »Considering not everyone spends money from their daddys wallet. The other people still rely on barbs to get BH done, aswell as other instances, like full warsong.
Although not everyone require one, but the same goes for a bm, can still get things done without one, they just happen to go more smoothely with one.
How often do you see squads in WC looking for a barb to get bh done? Then you get stubborn BM's who claim they can tank and do what the barb can, squad wipes breaks, finds another squad lol.
If everyone could afford R9/OP gear, then barbs would still probably be useless. But not everyone can, the people in here who say they arent needed are the ones who pour a bunch of money in the game lol. Obviously, Its not just Barbs that are needed, takes a good squad with different classes to get things done.
/inb4 r9 can be easily farmed/merched
Barbs have also gotten a frontal AoE skill from AEU that helps a lot in holding aggro.
Needed again, meaning people require them more than they did before.
You would also consider finding any kind of geared barb easier than finding a r9 BM, or a squad who is capable of completing the quests, for whatever it may be. Not all sins/BMs can tank/solo/get into a capable squad without a barb.
....
<- tt99 with OHT helm and vana pants, rank 9 is kinda pve overkill dude
I know you didnt even try calling me pay to play sir >.>. Much has been lost on my break, much barb pretension has built up, much shall be muchly done.
A year ago 90% of bh 100 ran with a barb, now 90% of bh 100 runs with barbs. Nobody cares what +3 tt 90 people use in their squads at 100. Regardless of game progress the same derps are still derps.
The amount of idiotic bm's/sins is at least equal to that of derpbarbs I'll admit but tbh the new content is really no harder than the old with a bit of competence and timing. This =/= more need for barbs but more need for players t learn their classes, but since learning a class takes minimal effort most choose to nuthug the hell out of barbs
1 more frontal aggro skill, joy, now go arma for aoe aggro or if its a boss put on fists (bramble/hit buff bosses excluded)
TL:DR none of the new content is harder than all boss solo/duo 3-3 or say a barbless delta, barbs are nice if played well (and carrying claws) but past even the opening stages of endgame gear they become optional.Gifs are hard to make work here0 -
^^ If players are required to learn their classes, it means the extra little effort people need to put in, therefore increase diffculty.
I agree, most of the people are derps, and have no idea how to play their characters, which is ridonculous, it helps a lot, but gear is still a major factor, if people cant afford the gear, they will need a substitute in order for them to complete the task.
Explain:
Consider a rainbow squad for SoT/Abba, or even just a squad with less than average gear for metal. IE TT 99, or even r8. (Which most people have, because they cant afford r8, or know how to merch, or make money in the game)
A squad with those gears in Metal for example, will not be able to kill the boss fast enough before he flips his nuts, each time he frenzies it gets stronger, with a barb, you lose a little extra DD power, so you will kill a bit slower, but at the same time you have more sustain due to the barbs skills (Invoke, and the Genie skill that acts like Invoke)
giving the squad more sustain. This is just an example, of course there are other methods of sustain.
SoT/Aba, I am still not quite sure what how they quite work, but most times when other classes other than the barb pull, the person gets one shot where the boss is dealing 30k damage lol.
He also goes into a frenzy when he is dealt a certain amount of damage, and the easiest way to achieve that is by APSing, so most BMs/Sins try to restrain themselves from using APS, if theres no barb, then who will be holding aggro? Aggro would be flipping from the BM to the Sin or Between sins.
If the squad is rocking tt90-99-r8, I dont think they can handle the boss. Again their are other methods of sustain, but there won't always be the "perfect coordinated squad" Or when making a squad you won't always find the classes you want/need.0 -
StarStrukkk - Heavens Tear wrote: »Considering not everyone spends money from their daddys wallet.
Considering most people that play the have jobs and can afford to put money in the game. Not everyone has to ask their rents for cash. And what if your papa doesnt own a wallet just is straight pimp?
And I truly love the new powers increased att when being hit is amazing, and not to mention Deaden nerves on crack for barb is a real life saver and pisses a lot off in pvp. b:laugh[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Nothing is true. Everything is Permitted.
Ezio Auditore0 -
Joshcja - Sanctuary wrote: »....
<- tt99 with OHT helm and vana pants, rank 9 is kinda pve overkill dude
I know you didnt even try calling me pay to play sir >.>. Much has been lost on my break, much barb pretension has built up, much shall be muchly done.
A year ago 90% of bh 100 ran with a barb, now 90% of bh 100 runs with barbs. Nobody cares what +3 tt 90 people use in their squads at 100. Regardless of game progress the same derps are still derps.
The amount of idiotic bm's/sins is at least equal to that of derpbarbs I'll admit but tbh the new content is really no harder than the old with a bit of competence and timing. This =/= more need for barbs but more need for players t learn their classes, but since learning a class takes minimal effort most choose to nuthug the hell out of barbs
1 more frontal aggro skill, joy, now go arma for aoe aggro or if its a boss put on fists (bramble/hit buff bosses excluded)
TL:DR none of the new content is harder than all boss solo/duo 3-3 or say a barbless delta, barbs are nice if played well (and carrying claws) but past even the opening stages of endgame gear they become optional.
instead of building a claw barb you can make a 600 str barb and boila u can keep agro with ur ream in tiger even when bm sparking if doen right.
sure vit build are not great still bit if you would say make a pure str barb why would you need claws to keep agro for a 2 sec killing boss
done so on abba boss with 4 sin and a bm hf and me and woot i did hold agro
so again what claws0 -
_Ghoul_ - Lost City wrote: »instead of building a claw barb you can make a 600 str barb and boila u can keep agro with ur ream in tiger even when bm sparking
yeah... sure...~~~~[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Deago - Lost City wrote: »And I truly love the new powers increased att when being hit is amazing, and not to mention Deaden nerves on crack for barb is a real life saver and pisses a lot off in pvp. b:laugh
Isnt blood rush dealing around the same amount of damage youd gain from spark burst? well 10% more.
Cornered beast is great, and the graphics on it looks sick.0 -
_Ghoul_ - Lost City wrote: »instead of building a claw barb you can make a 600 str barb and boila u can keep agro with ur ream in tiger even when bm sparking if doen right.
sure vit build are not great still bit if you would say make a pure str barb why would you need claws to keep agro for a 2 sec killing boss
done so on abba boss with 4 sin and a bm hf and me and woot i did hold agro
so again what claws
I have 400 str and I can hold aggro for 2 seconds just like you did.BladedZero - Sanctuary
"Also I don't think actually playing through the game helps your skill either."
-And we wonder why this game has gone to hell b:cute0 -
StarStrukkk - Heavens Tear wrote: »Consider a rainbow squad for SoT/Abba, or even just a squad with less than average gear for metal. IE TT 99, or even r8. (Which most people have, because they cant afford r8, or know how to merch, or make money in the game)
If done right, SoT/Abba boss dies just after the first HF. Even with TT90/99 gear. Get more DDs. Bring a Veno if you really want. OP squads aren't needed.StarStrukkk - Heavens Tear wrote: »A squad with those gears in Metal for example, will not be able to kill the boss fast enough before he flips his nuts, each time he frenzies it gets stronger, with a barb, you lose a little extra DD power, so you will kill a bit slower, but at the same time you have more sustain due to the barbs skills (Invoke, and the Genie skill that acts like Invoke)
giving the squad more sustain. This is just an example, of course there are other methods of sustain.
I watch +5 to +7 TT99ish BMs with Deicides tank this just fine. +7ish sins too with +10 Dags. Skill, decentish gear, utilization of def charms, utilization of pots, utilization of genie skills. The boss dies in 60-30 seconds typically. Again, OP squads aren't needed - just play your class well.StarStrukkk - Heavens Tear wrote: »SoT/Aba, I am still not quite sure what how they quite work, but most times when other classes other than the barb pull, the person gets one shot where the boss is dealing 30k damage lol.
Unbuffed, sure. Hell Ive seen barbs die to this. Be buffed, use a def charm, use an immune pot or skill, even Sins are fine.StarStrukkk - Heavens Tear wrote: »He also goes into a frenzy when he is dealt a certain amount of damage, and the easiest way to achieve that is by APSing, so most BMs/Sins try to restrain themselves from using APS, if theres no barb, then who will be holding aggro? Aggro would be flipping from the BM to the Sin or Between sins.
Wrong again. Chaining skills. Even with my TT90 axes doing this I out aggro most barbs and tank just fine. And this is if you **** up and don't kill the boss in like 20 seconds or less.StarStrukkk - Heavens Tear wrote: »If the squad is rocking tt90-99-r8, I dont think they can handle the boss. Again their are other methods of sustain, but there won't always be the "perfect coordinated squad" Or when making a squad you won't always find the classes you want/need.
I see it all the time, even in non optimal squads.
Bottom line is even Barbs die with bad skills of self and team, and even bad gear on the Barb. I've been called in several times on my BM (Yes, hes OP) to tank all the BHs for friends, where the barb was having a bad day, or the barb/bm rage quit, or they couldn't find a tank and are at the boss.
A decent geared BM will usually outaggro a well geared Barb. They survive just fine if they aren't idiots. In the cases of sins, they can behave and let someone else tank, or if they are good enough, just tank it. BB, Falling Petals, and Heal Plants work just fine if someone does not have the HP/Def but can keep the aggro.
But really...buffs. 90% of the time I hear of fail because of lack of Cleric buffs, Barb Buffs, and BP.
So you're wrong. Stating this is nonsense and shows your direct inexperience with these bosses. PWI needs to up the aggro of Barb aggro skills - period. Otherwise they're just buff alts or cat pullers. And thats lame.pwcalc.com/bb6fc16982637a5c / pwcalc.com/28948ee5778526f50 -
Needed or simply more appreciated, I did notice a difference on barb when it comes to squads. And I'm glad about that. I'm glad they made the bosses lvl?, cause it helps on aggro a bit. I don't have much problems on that part. Those who can't tank, will hold back, and if they don't, to bad for them b:laugh
I also tank bh on bm/sin, so I know barbs aren't strictly needed. But at least now, when there is 1 in squad, no other class will tell the kitty to not go 1st. It's funny though that so many bm are here on some kind of anti-barb action.
On the fistbarb thing... It's just stupid to say a barb is supposed to have fists. It's equally silly as being opposed to other barbs using fists. I tried it, and glad I'm back to vit build now. I really didn't find the fists worth the hp loss. I know the fists have their use, but not in my case. On top of that, Sanc have mainly fail fistbarbs that shapeshift to "aps" every damn mob to dead.
@ Maelael : the problem for most sins is the bleed (not 1st time, but after deaden nerves it is). You can put all the plants and goodies you want, but many sins and even some bm/seekers, just get 1shot by the initial tick. And since it's a bleed based on hp majorly, it's just good hp and def that can tank the bosses. After barb, bm is the easiest class to tank aba/seat bosses on. Yet, most bm ingame don't have the knowledge of phys marrow like on forums.0 -
Tawarwaith - Sanctuary wrote: »Needed or simply more appreciated, I did notice a difference on barb when it comes to squads. And I'm glad about that. I'm glad they made the bosses lvl?, cause it helps on aggro a bit. I don't have much problems on that part. Those who can't tank, will hold back, and if they don't, to bad for them b:laugh
I also tank bh on bm/sin, so I know barbs aren't strictly needed. But at least now, when there is 1 in squad, no other class will tell the kitty to not go 1st. It's funny though that so many bm are here on some kind of anti-barb action.
On the fistbarb thing... It's just stupid to say a barb is supposed to have fists. It's equally silly as being opposed to other barbs using fists. I tried it, and glad I'm back to vit build now. I really didn't find the fists worth the hp loss. I know the fists have their use, but not in my case. On top of that, Sanc have mainly fail fistbarbs that shapeshift to "aps" every damn mob to dead.
@ Maelael : the problem for most sins is the bleed (not 1st time, but after deaden nerves it is). You can put all the plants and goodies you want, but many sins and even some bm/seekers, just get 1shot by the initial tick. And since it's a bleed based on hp majorly, it's just good hp and def that can tank the bosses. After barb, bm is the easiest class to tank aba/seat bosses on. Yet, most bm ingame don't have the knowledge of phys marrow like on forums.
Never seen the bleed kill anyone - ever. 3 Spark always removes it, same with cleric. Its like Light/Dark boss in AEU. Either purge or die if you have that low of HP.
Although, it could be I've rarely seen these sorta mishaps because...I don't go with a Barb and Im tanking. Ive heard of many, but only seen two sure-fire fails - I tanked after they died (Barb and Sin who demanded!).
Of course, it's common to find most barbs 20k and below for HP. Common I see is 16k on clawbarians. I've seen fistbarb work for farming, but it's like Archers with claws. Nobody wants em for any farming unless theyre a friend.
And yea...I know with the BMs *rolls eyes* Although I totally forget my marrow in TW half the time, so I can't talk smack in that specific arena...
If need to post with my barb I will, trust me its not a BM thing. It's a I'm pissed I have to play my BM instead of my Barb if I wanna tank in good squads.
Which also brings us back to...not *needed*.
Many squads may want one, but I'll be honest - every time I go "Hey I can tank it as a BM" with those squads who want/demand a barb - I'm chewin down crabmeat, charm ticking, and its the LONGEST FIGHT EVER on those bosses. It's the players, not the class. I can go with the same squad makeup with similar or lesser gear and it goes better.
When I do go places with Barbs (super, duper rare) the following happens:
-The Barb demands to be given 15-30 seconds to solo gain aggro on the boss (coulda been dead in that time) - Me or a really OP sin ends up with aggro anyways.
-Pro Barb in R9 KINDA takes aggro on and off. (Arma on HF omg...doesn't last long though)
-Barb doesn't even try for aggro, and just kinda mopes through the fight(s)
-Barb doesn't even try for aggro, but goes all out DD wise (awesome!)
-Pro Barb in R8r/N3/GoF gear goes full out, everything they have, Pots, genie skills, runes, yadda yadda, including resetting aggro through long fights to keep aggro. Still doesn't keep aggro much, but more back and forth than the Pro Barb in R9.
-Barb at least pulls but otherwise does what they can.
-Barb is a buff alt (95%)
On my barb, if the squad is pro, I usually go for the second Pro Barb style (All out skills, good gear). Expensive, but its all we got, yo. I could restat to strength for a bit better aggro control (still wasted vs higher aps toons), but something about 25k hp at 95 makes me want to touch no-nos.
All of that could be improved by ONE thing. Just ONE thing: Improving aggro generation on aggro skills for Barbs. They can add in AFK XP Sampling, give more skills to Sins, but they can't just double the value of Barb aggro generation? Come on.
Edit: "But at least now, when there is 1 in squad, no other class will tell the kitty to not go 1st." - I do. But Im 90% Crazy and 10% picky because most Barbs never pull enough mobs. Save a few barbs (most R9/R8r/N3 Barbs don't do dailies anymore, they have Sin/Psy/BM alts for that) I run into, my BM also tends to take the damage from the bosses better due to gear and sharding. Because my TW toon is PvE viable at the same time.
Of note, if you ever run into Roids on HT, that's an example of a Barb who can whoop major {Bleep} without the super OP gear. TW and PvE. I'd take him over a DD or another BM in RB any day.pwcalc.com/bb6fc16982637a5c / pwcalc.com/28948ee5778526f50 -
Maelael - Heavens Tear wrote: »Never seen the bleed kill anyone - ever. 3 Spark always removes it, same with cleric. Its like Light/Dark boss in AEU. Either purge or die if you have that low of HP.
Makes me wonder how much hp you have... I've tested how the bleed works, the results are somewhere in the guide KawaiiJen made. Just sage hp buff on my sin, cuts the bleed of 1st tick in 2. Also, the 1st tick is 3x the ticks after. The bleed appears with 1st tick, so you simply can't spark it off before the, for most, lethal hit. In summery, the bosses 1shot all (except bm) below 10k hp. Between 10k-15k hp, anyone with ok phys def can tank them. After 15k hp it's easy. And a tank with 20k+ won't even need a healer. BMs can up their phys def so much, that they can tank it before reaching 10k. Maybe with a 2nd healer, but 7k~8k+ hp is not unreachable for an average bm. So all in all, it's just about hp. A half decent barb will have 15k+ hp at 100, so they can tank it pretty much always.
All the aggro is, sorry to say, just a silly rant if you ask me. At least, for aba and seat. On seat, it's very rare others get aggro. It happens, if some DD has R9/G16 +10~12. But then they should be able to tank that boss. On aba, if they have the power to get aggro off before 2nd bleed, it means the boss will be down before the 2nd bleed anyway. I wish you were on my server to get aggro off my barb with your TT90 axes. I know my bm get's aggro off some barbs, but far from all. And that is with G15 hammers, and ofc, I don't hold back cause I can easily tank the bosses.
All in all, I find the bm posts here anti-barb just to be anti-barb. Maybe trying to get even for the old days where barbs were kings, even if a bm could tank just as fine... Ingame, my constatation is exactly opposite from here. Most are convinced they need a barb. Even some players with the gear to actually tank the bosses (hard to even get a bm to try it).0 -
Tawarwaith - Sanctuary wrote: »Makes me wonder how much hp you have...
All the aggro is, sorry to say, just a silly rant if you ask me. At least, for aba and seat. On seat, it's very rare others get aggro. It happens, if some DD has R9/G16 +10~12. But then they should be able to tank that boss. On aba, if they have the power to get aggro off before 2nd bleed, it means the boss will be down before the 2nd bleed anyway. I wish you were on my server to get aggro off my barb with your TT90 axes. I know my bm get's aggro off some barbs, but far from all. And that is with G15 hammers, and ofc, I don't hold back cause I can easily tank the bosses.
All in all, I find the bm posts here anti-barb just to be anti-barb. Maybe trying to get even for the old days where barbs were kings, even if a bm could tank just as fine... Ingame, my constatation is exactly opposite from here. Most are convinced they need a barb. Even some players with the gear to actually tank the bosses (hard to even get a bm to try it).
Buffed, 14k in APS gear, 20k in R9. Did Aba again tonight, as long as I was APSing or Spark Axe Spamming (G16 and R9), I had aggro vs two Sage Barbs. The fight went looooong but thats cause we had a newbie who didnt stop attacking during the buff - and it was at like 2% when it healed with first buff. Sadly, if the 2nd barb was a DD it would have died before it buffed the first time. I tanked the rest after I switched outta R9 in my aps armor with BB up and full buffs, charm ticked 1 time on one of the stops. Fight felt like 12 mintues, but I think we went through 10ish buff cycles (yea...took us a while to get the message out cause we werent really 2+2ing well)
Buuut...Ive had to run a cleric several times and have watched the 10-12k +7 - +10BM crowd tank both just fine without a charm tick, same with some Sins.
I was ripping aggro from barbs with G13 +12 Claws in Seat and Aba (I have G16 now). I couldn't tell ya how well lower stuff like deicides would go (my days with those predate the change by afar). Ill hit up a friend who isn't all DoTs and has a set of +7 and +10 deicides and see what he says. Dont think hes sold the +7s yet.
Similar geared Barbs (TT99/TT90) Ive ripped aggro off of with axe spam....but my APS armor at the time was 75% DoT and 25% Vit Stones. Crit and zerks are mainly is what makes that happen, after a few of those it's just done unless aggro is reset. Even stashed to my barb, my GXs are possessed, they zerk a lot. G15 hammers, doubt I could do it with my GXs if you've got em +10'ed or better and at least spike hit once - and especially if youre a STR Barb. Theres a few R9 STR Barbs Ive grouped with, theres no way in hell Im getting it off them with GXs, and doubtful in R9 - but I can try if I group with them again. Its pretty much a given Ive got aggro (or the insane Wiz does) if I have claws/fists out.
Im kinda curious if the new Morai skill really helps or not in the skill spam situations - but really the overall concern is APS.
And naw **** that, I want barbs back tanking. I enjoyed those days on my Barb and my BM. Back in the day I dropped my BM for a Barb cause I couldn't tank on the BM anymore (85, Pre APS days). Played Barb for a while, quit, came back during APS craze. Got Barb to 92...and he couldn't tank reliably anymore. So I went back to the BM. I'd like it if both are viable. I really enjoy pulling, tanking, and AoEing.
So yea. I mean it's kewl and all people believe they need Barbs for those. But its just not true. And Id hate for PWI reps - who apparently dont actually log in and play by the looks of their forum posts - to get the idea they did something to help out barbs. Cause they didn't fix the issue, they just changed up some things that made it harder for the underplayed/undergeared people, and made them hard/impossible to solo. Which is a good thing on the hard/impossible to solo, but it doesn't help me feel any better about my barb.
Wouldnt it be awesome if Barb skills could hold off +10 - +12 DoT APSers without problems? Or vs R9 Wizzies/Psys/Archers going full out? I do miss the old days.pwcalc.com/bb6fc16982637a5c / pwcalc.com/28948ee5778526f50 -
Maelael - Heavens Tear wrote: »Im kinda curious if the new Morai skill really helps or not in the skill spam situations - but really the overall concern is APS.
I got the morai skill, and it helps a lot. It's not a 100% aggro against everything and anything, but my aggro ability increased by a lot. Since it's an aoe, it's really noticeable on aoe groups once you find to position yourself correctly (line aoe while the rest is all round or round target). On lvl? bosses, I hold aggro pretty well (fully or sin just draws a few hits) from anything G13 +10 or lower and normal att lvls. Ofc, when facing r9/g16 or +12, I loose it fast.
My barb is vit build btw, with G15 hammer that are +11 with accuracy gem (Sacr Strike, +hp and +vit as adds). I use them on my bm also. I tried out fist build, but really like vit build more (armor is sapphire gemmed with a 3 vit stones from when they were still affordable). I dual a lot with my sin and got a bm, so really didn't find much use in fist build and str build isn't really tempting either.
Btw, on seat I never got aggro with my fists on bm (+11 G15). I do sometimes with hammers, but most barbs hold aggro (at least most of the time). It rarely happens I really pull aggro of them and they can't get it back. On sin, I always get aggro. Not with aps ofc, that's just not usefull on seat boss. So I imagen that would be the same for a r9 bm. BM/sin that spark > poke on Seat boss really make me facepalm. Atm, I pretty much only do bh with friends though. WC ppl are usually more a pain in the behind then a help b:surrender
I do agree aggro skills should be improoved on barb, ofc I do. They are just outdated compared to the current gear state. Barbs never were intended to hold aggro on damage imo. It's not just aps, it's also R8 +10 being really common while skills were made for TT99 +3 being epic. But I do with what I got. Ppl with OP weap should have OP armor so they can tank, if not, to bad for them. I'll do my best to hold aggro and/or take the maximum of hits if that doesn't trigger aoe/debuffs, but that is all I can do.0 -
The bleed is pretty brutal but can be countered in a few ways, the simplest being triple spark. For my character it tends to be between 1500-3k damage per tick (3 seconds), so 500-1k hp per second. That's after the initial attack that deals several thousand hp.
That's pretty hard to tank. Especially since the bleed isn't effected by defense levels and as a DoT often occurs in conjuncture with other attacks.
Not to mention, both bosses have other effects that can work for a quick kill. The Aba boss will buff itself to increase its damage depending on how many hit it takes. I've seen this occur when I was tank on my sin. I stopped attacking when the boss buffed herself but the bm didn't although I kept aggro. A couple seconds later I was hit by a 17k attack -.- Sometimes, the boss isn't tankable because of your squad.
The other bosses buffs against auto attacks. This drastically decreases paint return, something many of us depend on when tanking. It also makes aggro somewhat unpredictable without a barb since it becomes more about skill damage. This means if you are the tank and sparking to purify against the bleed you may not be sparked when the bm HFs, or if you are BM you may not be able to HF for your squad since you are saving your sparks for the triple spark. On the plus side, when the bleed happens you are given about 150 chi.
So, a few techniques I use for tanking on non-barb chars:
For a sin, obviously, use Deaden Nerves and Rib Strike. Get the cleric to stack you before you first aggro because that hit is a doozy. Combine IH stack + Deaden Nerves and you are at full health immediately. Triple spark right after aggroing and hopefully resist the first attack/bleed or at least purify it. AD also works but empties your genie. On the Aba boss its up to you if you'd like to Inner Harmony+Subsea and try to kill before it goes into its buff cycle. If you can't kill it before then try and save IH and RDS for the bleed purify or time his first big attack after each buff cycle. I've had Aba squads with no barb and a demon veno that I just asked the cleric to ignore the bb and pdef debuff first instead, that way we'll kill before the buff cycle starts. Paint works fine for heals until you have to sit there and tank without attacking.
At Aba, ask the cleric to follow you in and bb there. The boss buffs about 30 seconds after he is first aggroed and if you spend 20 of that pulling the boss back to a bb you only get 10 seconds to kill. If you have the killing power then do it before he can buff.
Physical marrow. The bleed is physical. I believe the first attack of both bosses is physical (not 100% sure since I've had a big range in numbers, but generally reduced). And both bosses have a short physical aoe.
Chill of the Deep and skill spam on the seat boss. For me this works better than triple spark->Auto, and between RDS and Tackling Slash you even get your sparks back.
Soulsever.
Seat boss, use your Shatters. Get the boss done quick.
Stop the boss at max distance from bb or pull it past so the bb is slightly behind the boss but you're still in it. The boss has a front phys aoe that hurts casters and can drop bb.Seven 100+ characters leveled the hard way. Free to play. Mystic, Psychic, and Wizard left to level. b:victory0 -
Tawarwaith - Sanctuary wrote: »BM/sin that spark > poke on Seat boss really make me facepalm. Atm, I pretty much only do bh with friends though.
I usually throw in a single round of aps with HF (does just fine damage) for aggro/chi, and then switch over to 3 spark skill spam with axes. Oddly, Ive been lazy twice with a barb in the group who demanded like 20 seconds to aggro and pull it, and I still ended up with aggro anyways with fists out. I makes me wonder if there is a per hit aggro generation not based on damage.
I do rush this boss like Aba, I find every group we do a rush on and just 3spark, HF, and go to town it dies near instantly in 95% of situations.
And sigh...guess Ill do morai on my barb then. So sick of those quests...pwcalc.com/bb6fc16982637a5c / pwcalc.com/28948ee5778526f50 -
Keyword being "if", this would require close to perfect execution. I have been in squads with 1 Veno, 1 Sin, 3 BMs, 1 Cleric/ 1 Veno, 3 Sins, 1 BM, 1 Cleric/1 Veno, 2 Sins, 2 BMs, 1 Cleric.Maelael - Heavens Tear wrote: »If done right, SoT/Abba boss dies just after the first HF. Even with TT90/99 gear. Get more DDs. Bring a Veno if you really want. OP squads aren't needed.
None of these so far have been able to succeed, even with better described gear as the above.
As said as above, still yet to of seen this happen. Knowing a bunch of people playing their characters are plvld, makes it hard to believe they can play their class well, not speaking for all, but majority of them. And Since it is the way it is, a barb is needed.Maelael - Heavens Tear wrote: »I watch +5 to +7 TT99ish BMs with Deicides tank this just fine. +7ish sins too with +10Dags. Skill, decentish gear, utilization of def charms, utilization of pots, utilization of genie skills. The boss dies in 60-30 seconds typically. Again, OP squads aren't needed -just play your class well.
I understand what you mean, but as you said, people need to play their classes better, but the fact is they aren't lol.
I'm not quite sure here what makes the mobs do a 30k hit on classes, most cases where I've seen other classes pulling other then barb they die. Unless its a sin who used deaden nerves and someone catches aggro straight after the first hit.Maelael - Heavens Tear wrote: »Unbuffed, sure. Hell Ive seen barbs die to this. Be buffed, use a def charm, use an immune pot or skill, even Sins are fine.
Just the axes? what about armor wise? I am aware you have above average gear compared to most BM's.Maelael - Heavens Tear wrote: »Wrong again. Chaining skills. Even with my TT90 axes doing this I out aggro most barbs and tank just fine. And this is if you **** up and don't kill the boss in like 20 seconds or less
Yet to see it.Maelael - Heavens Tear wrote: »I see it all the time, even in non optimal squads.
If the barb doesn't know how to play his character then ofcourse he is going to fail, the whole point of it is so barbs can use their defensive/survivability skills.Maelael - Heavens Tear wrote: »Bottom line is even Barbs die with bad skills of self and team, and even bad gear on the Barb. I've been called in several times on my BM (Yes, hes OP) to tank all the BHs for friends, where the barb was having a bad day, or the barb/bm rage quit, or they couldn't find a tank and are at the boss.
A decent geared BM will usually outaggro a well geared Barb. They survive just fine if they aren't idiots. In the cases of sins, they can behave and let someone else tank, or if they are good enough, just tank it. BB, Falling Petals, and Heal Plants work just fine if someone does not have the HP/Def but can keep the aggro.
Easiest examples being "invoke the spirit" otherwise he may as well be playing a BM. I'm sure most classes can out aggro a barb, most obvious example would be a sin, but its going to be the same case, like you said about the sins, just behave, and dd in moderation.
Lost me here..Squads fail because they don't buff? Is that the point you;re making?Maelael - Heavens Tear wrote: »But really...buffs. 90% of the time I hear of fail because of lack of Cleric buffs, Barb Buffs, and BP.Maelael - Heavens Tear wrote: »So you're wrong. Stating this is nonsense and shows your direct inexperience with these bosses. PWI needs to up the aggro of Barb aggro skills - period. Otherwise they're just buff alts or cat pullers. And thats lame.
You're opinion, you stating this shows that you're close minded, and things seem to only work one way. As even you said, people can possibly/capable of completing BH's (SOT/ABA) without a barb, but obviously not everyone or everyone in the squad will know how, since some are plvlers/slow learners/No guidance. Why else would you think people go out in WC looking for one? It's because they struggle without one. Hence they are needed again.
Not easy to find a squad who can execute things perfectly, or someone who can tank that well. If it was, they wouldn't always be asking for Barbs.
My point is, people still need barbs, because not everyone, or every squad is able to do jobs others can. ie You claim to be able to tank them, I don't doubt you, and possibly lower geared people can tank them too (yet to be proven to me), but you and I and anyone else obviously knows their are people who can't.
Same goes for squads, even if you have someone who has tanked it before, if the squad isnt capable of playing their characters, its not going to work,but having a barb allows players to play more passively and have a higher chance of succeeding.
Regardless~Just because you and "some" other players are capable of doing things, does not mean others can too, and I assume those people who are capable of doing such things aren't going to be there to rescue every squad who can't succeed.0 -
Killing the boss in 15 seconds in seat/aba isnt as hard s your making it out to be, just need people who can time debuffs correctlyGifs are hard to make work here0
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Thats one of the points Mal made earlier, and I assume goes under the same area when you said people who know how to play their chars.
Ofcourse killing the boss isnt hard, "if" you find the right people (classes), and those people know how to play their characters correctly, who must also be able to work with the team.
Its getting these kind of people/squads together that makes the boss hard.0 -
StarStrukkk - Heavens Tear wrote: »Ofcourse killing the boss isnt hard, "if" you find the right people (classes), and those people know how to play their characters correctly, who must also be able to work with the team.
Its getting these kind of people/squads together that makes the boss hard.
Everyone knows what you mean, but all just hammer the point that barbs aren't "NEEDED" in the strict sense of the word. You meant to say barbs are "WANTED" again, which nobody can deny. Even if it isn't the case for specific persons, who often can tank the bosses themselves, there is a higher demand for tanks that are prefered to be barbs if I'm to judge on wc, wispers and reactions in squads not having a barb.
Tbh, I think the usual "I R TANK - RAWRR" reproach to barbs, has become more an "I R TANK - BLUB BLUB" by sins and bms.
Like I said before, I find the update positive for the barb class and play him more now. Not just the 2 bh that had a boss change. Also new warsong, new lunar, aeu, unwined instances and the new aggro skill are a part of that. Getting a in barb to squad actually adds something again, even though it doesn't mean you can't do it without a barb.0 -
I would like to kindly point out that barbs have always been in need by classes like Archers, Wizards, Psychics. Nothing really keeps aggro on a pull like a good barb. Better geared Seekers can do it, but they are a newer class. Not to mention BKI makes squishy charms tick a lot less.
I run instances with my archer and my brother's wizard and I find barbs highly useful. I actually made one just because many never pulled as many mobs as I would like/could handle and they just seemed fun to play (which they are). People became too reliant on wines and Zeal pulling. The new bosses in SoT/Aba being near the entrance and easily accessible makes wining a bit redundant now. Going one by one has always been pretty slow regardless when you could just pull 5-6 groups and AoE them all like it was FC/Delta or something.
Rarely will I have more than 1 sin or BM in a squad. Makes a BH slow since you can't do large pulls and depend on them to keep aggro. (sure +10 BM/sins can just aoe large pulls, but the vast majority of my server is r8+5 or lower. So that isn't going to happen often)
My barby is still lvl 94 and I can't wait to tank some BH100s and do crazy pulls on him like I can in FC already.Ring Engraving/Amulet Carving Guide - pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1174451
Retired from PWI.
b:bye0
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