Seekers and Saber Rattle
Olbaze - Sanctuary
Posts: 4,242 Arc User
Someone please explain to me...
Why the hell do Seekers buff people with Saber Rattle?
It makes no sense. The 3 Attack Levels does pretty much nothing at all. At best, it's a 3% increase, which isn't exactly stellar. More commonly, it's going to be a 2% increase as most people walk around with a Jones' Blessing. Either way, that's not going to change anything at all.
In comparison, you have Krav Maga. Most people do not have any Defense Levels at all. Some have 15 from the O'Malley's blessing, some have a few from stuff like Matchless Wings or Puzzle Cube Badges. The thing is, that 5 Defense Levels? For most people it's going to be an additional 5% damage reduction. That might not seem like much, but in practice it's like giving them an additional 6% HP on top of their already-buffed HP. Which, for most people, would be freaking awesome.
I can think of a few reasons as to why Seekers would do this. For one, Seekers have Adrenal Numbness and Bladed Fervor, which gives them more Defense Levels than Attack Levels, so some of them might be fooled by that to use Saber Rattle on everything. For two, most people have no clue how Attack Levels work and thus they'd believe that the 3 Attack Levels is going to actually change something while it really won't. Then there's the crowd that's simply obsessed with damage and will choose the damage buff just because it's damage, rather than an actual reason.
So why is it?
Posted to General Discussions because it's more about the squad buff and the people than the class itself.
Why the hell do Seekers buff people with Saber Rattle?
It makes no sense. The 3 Attack Levels does pretty much nothing at all. At best, it's a 3% increase, which isn't exactly stellar. More commonly, it's going to be a 2% increase as most people walk around with a Jones' Blessing. Either way, that's not going to change anything at all.
In comparison, you have Krav Maga. Most people do not have any Defense Levels at all. Some have 15 from the O'Malley's blessing, some have a few from stuff like Matchless Wings or Puzzle Cube Badges. The thing is, that 5 Defense Levels? For most people it's going to be an additional 5% damage reduction. That might not seem like much, but in practice it's like giving them an additional 6% HP on top of their already-buffed HP. Which, for most people, would be freaking awesome.
I can think of a few reasons as to why Seekers would do this. For one, Seekers have Adrenal Numbness and Bladed Fervor, which gives them more Defense Levels than Attack Levels, so some of them might be fooled by that to use Saber Rattle on everything. For two, most people have no clue how Attack Levels work and thus they'd believe that the 3 Attack Levels is going to actually change something while it really won't. Then there's the crowd that's simply obsessed with damage and will choose the damage buff just because it's damage, rather than an actual reason.
So why is it?
Posted to General Discussions because it's more about the squad buff and the people than the class itself.
I am Olba. Not Ol, not Baze nor Blaze. And even less would I go by Olblaze. Please, take a second to read a person's username.
If you see b:cute be sure to take a second, calm look at anything I said.
If you see b:cute be sure to take a second, calm look at anything I said.
Post edited by Olbaze - Sanctuary on
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Comments
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In events such as CoA and Celestial Tigers, there is really no need for anyone to have defense levels, as the mobs do non-existent damage, and their attacks that do "lots of damage" are based off of our max hp, which defense levels have no control over.
So the best thing to get is a better offense, even if 3 attack levels is all they can offer.
I think the answer to the next question will be the P attack runes, but does Saber Rattle give a higher damage boost than the lowest tier Garnet rune?[SIGPIC]Octavia is best pony[/SIGPIC]
Vicious's Brony. Brohoof!
youtube.com/user/SkaiPW - Assassin PvE/PvP Videos!0 -
My seeker is 96 and I play it every day. I have never had anyone comment either way on the buff I give, so I analyse the squad and go from there. Having said that I've only really done bh79/89 and FC thats of any worth....
If there is a barb in the squad that holds aggro, I go with the attack buff, just so everyone gets a tiny little bit extra attack, considering that the barb doesnt need more defence usually.
If theres a bit of aggro swapping and some of the members lose hp here and there I buff with defence.
I dont think anyone cares that much tbh since no-one ever mentions it.0 -
I'm already glad when I don't get just a +1 def lvl buff from a lvl 102 seeker. And the difference matters if you have to tank snake with sin in warsong...
There are so many greedy noobs with +1/2 g12 morai weapons arround which even don't want to spent 1.37m coins to level up their Krav Maga from 1 to 3. Tbh, I always feel exploited. What do I have to write next? Link weapon PLUS level of your vortex + Krav Maga + Blade and Sword Mastery?
There should be a sign arround everyone, comparable with a fairy. So you can see that ppl maxed their skills. 1st sign: maximized all skills without sage/demon skills. 2nd sign: maximized all demon/sage skills b:laugh0 -
Whenever I've been in a squad where the seeker asked everyone said they wanted the attack levels.
With bloodpaint extra attack has a defensive purpose as well.AKA PermaSpark, Heartshatter0 -
I`m more annoyed if a seeker overbuffs my corona phy attack rune with that lame def/att lvl buff b:surrender[SIGPIC]http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=14516063001&dateline=1364756666[/SIGPIC] Ty Silvy
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_Skai_ - Raging Tide wrote: »In events such as CoA and Celestial Tigers, there is really no need for anyone to have defense levels, as the mobs do non-existent damage, and their attacks that do "lots of damage" are based off of our max hp, which defense levels have no control over.
Of course, there are situations where the damage is negligible. But I see seekers buffing for that 3 Attack Levels everywhere. I have to pretty much tell a seeker outright if I want Krav Maga rather than Saber Rattle, when it should be obvious which I want for Snakefist.I am Olba. Not Ol, not Baze nor Blaze. And even less would I go by Olblaze. Please, take a second to read a person's username.
If you see b:cute be sure to take a second, calm look at anything I said.0 -
Same reason why there are people who still think putting DoTs (or heavens forbid elemental shards) in high level weapons is a good idea, for the most part.
Yeah there's a few legitimate cases where it'll be more useful than Krav Maga, but considering that most seekers will rebuff themselves right after anyways and that oftentimes they get told "atk lvl plz" by people who DON'T realize the difference, it ends up becoming somewhat of a habit and assumption for most of them.0 -
First off let me say I always buff Krav Maga, but that is only because I perfer to play using more defense levels (I don't even use my Bladed Favor which isn't a bad self-buff while your farming). There are tons of people that prefer attack levels over defense levels, not just for CoA and Tigers. Most Sins and BMs I squad with request Saber Rattle with the BMs asking me to buff their axes along with their choice of aps weapon. I've had to move archers off to the side of the rest of the squad before going into TW because they wanted attack levels instead of defense levels. So as long as people still want attack level buff...even if its only 3 levels.....seekers are going to still buff that. Its really not hard to ask for Krav Maga instead of Saber Rattle.Angel_Spawn - Sanctuary wrote: »I`m more annoyed if a seeker overbuffs my corona phy attack rune with that lame def/att lvl buff b:surrender
b:laugh Really? You honestly expect every seeker you squad with to take the time to look at everybody's weapon to see if they are using runes? Give me a break, if its that annoying to you; 1-Don't squad with seekers or 2-Say you are using runes before they party buff. b:laugh0 -
Same reason why there are people who still think putting DoTs (or heavens forbid elemental shards) in high level weapons is a good idea, for the most part.
Yeah there's a few legitimate cases where it'll be more useful than Krav Maga, but considering that most seekers will rebuff themselves right after anyways and that oftentimes they get told "atk lvl plz" by people who DON'T realize the difference, it ends up becoming somewhat of a habit and assumption for most of them.
^ This, people ask for Att Lvl, if you want Def then tell the Seeker that and explain it's more beneficial to you. Most squads think in terms of damage, not defense.0 -
Same reason why there are people who still think putting DoTs (or heavens forbid elemental shards) in high level weapons is a good idea, for the most part.
Yeah there's a few legitimate cases where it'll be more useful than Krav Maga, but considering that most seekers will rebuff themselves right after anyways and that oftentimes they get told "atk lvl plz" by people who DON'T realize the difference, it ends up becoming somewhat of a habit and assumption for most of them.
actually i have a weapon specifically for caster nirvana with a high lvl alabaster shard. not for the added damage, but so i can hit the bosses with all my debuffs. tho i have a main weapon i switch between. and as for sabor rattle i never really bothered to lvl it till i was around 90 was pointless most of the time tbh. only added about 25-50 attack. krav maga on the other hand i can use my seeker debuff (30), o-mallies (15), + krav (5) for a total of -50% damage0 -
VX_Tira_Xv - Raging Tide wrote: »actually i have a weapon specifically for caster nirvana with a high lvl alabaster shard. not for the added damage, but so i can hit the bosses with all my debuffs. tho i have a main weapon i switch between. and as for sabor rattle i never really bothered to lvl it till i was around 90 was pointless most of the time tbh. only added about 25-50 attack. krav maga on the other hand i can use my seeker debuff (30), o-mallies (15), + krav (5) for a total of -50% damage
I just have a wizzie buff me with water damage for GS to debuff.0 -
RavagerX - Heavens Tear wrote: »I just have a wizzie buff me with water damage for GS to debuff.
This. Frostblade gets the job done when you need to debuff as a phys DD and more often than not caster squads have at least one wiz in it. Besides, if you're not using the shard for damage so much as for the ability to debuff then even a low level weapon with a lower grade shard will do the job for what's pretty much free. (I'm talking G8 and below. G9 and up, while still cheap relatively, start costing above 100k in investment for the most part and for something I'd basically only use to debuff phys immune bosses, I don't really care about the nonexistant damage it would deal while I debuff and that damage would be the only reason to get a higher grade weapon/gems as there's no way I'd be wasting runes/attack charms on the thing).0 -
This. Frostblade gets the job done when you need to debuff as a phys DD and more often than not caster squads have at least one wiz in it. Besides, if you're not using the shard for damage so much as for the ability to debuff then even a low level weapon with a lower grade shard will do the job for what's pretty much free. (I'm talking G8 and below. G9 and up, while still cheap relatively, start costing above 100k in investment for the most part and for something I'd basically only use to debuff phys immune bosses, I don't really care about the nonexistant damage it would deal while I debuff and that damage would be the only reason to get a higher grade weapon/gems as there's no way I'd be wasting runes/attack charms on the thing).
u need a decent shard for the elemental damage or its not enough to cut thru the elemental defenses. also i LOVE wizzie buff!!
tho most of the time it seams i never get a squad with one wich is why i have a cheap sword with a flawless shard in it. the after debuffs i switch back to my t2 nirvy sword. 0 -
Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »I can think of a few reasons as to why Seekers would do this. For one, Seekers have Adrenal Numbness and Bladed Fervor, which gives them more Defense Levels than Attack Levels, so some of them might be fooled by that to use Saber Rattle on everything. For two, most people have no clue how Attack Levels work and thus they'd believe that the 3 Attack Levels is going to actually change something while it really won't. Then there's the crowd that's simply obsessed with damage and will choose the damage buff just because it's damage, rather than an actual reason.
So why is it?
You already gave the answer lol. And it's actually for many classes that the attack buff is superior to the defence buff. Maybe not even mathematically, but just because they won't get hit or because they already have more then enough survivability anyway.
It's actually specific for the fish-race to be stuffed with attack lvls (psy's I see are usually in the attack mode voodoo). The majority of the classes tend to have more use of a slightly better attack then of slightly better defence. Add to that the fact that the defence lvls only benefit the tank and maybe the healer (if there is one), while the attack lvls benefit the 4 DD and even the tank a little.
Most seekers I encounter just ask really. ANd most reply they want att lvls0 -
Everything is purely situational, however in the general case Krav for the +5 defense levels is a better suited buff attribute to the weapon then rattles 3 attack levels. Sure you get a tiny boost of damage, but in most squads these days the higher survivability obtained from the 5 defense levels is more useful.
Perks to Krav
Squishier built classes (Any class with low geared / refined characters) can survive a little better against groups of mobs (rb) and bosses. Also Better for PK / TW.
Cons to Krav
You lose out on a marginal attack bonus.
Perks to Saber
Higher damage output to kill stuff a little quicker. Good for instances where defense doesn't matter such as CoA / Tiger Event / Etc
Cons to Saber
Attack instead of Defense = lower survivability rate.
Personally I always want Krav no matter the instance. (As I play the tank role in most things I run for people) If I want higher damage I can just get a wizard buff or Pop a tidal wafer for an extra 50% attack bonus. (I almost never spark so it's beneficial to me)
The general concept of higher DD = faster killing = win is still going through the majority of peoples heads which is why you see stuff like that.[SIGPIC]http://i48.tinypic.com/2r61kw3.jpg[/SIGPIC]
Ty Fon for the Siggy
The rare and exotic Sage Archer of HT. b:cute0 -
honestly, i buff according to the situation.
-In Tigers event and COA, i use saber rattle.
-For BHs, i use krav maga
-For TW, i ask the squad.
-For PK, i ask the squad.
If you do these, u r good to go b:victory0 -
I usually check the hp of people, take into account what bosses we'll encounter and buff according to that.
If I notice my squadmembers have low/decent hp, I usually go for krav.
However I also notice a lot of people asking for saber rattle. I'm not much of a person to get into a discussion before we even started a dungeon, so I usually just give them what they ask. If it goes well, fine with me. If ppl keep dieng, you're going to have a krav maga, if you want it or not.
If we got people with way different hp, or when running with some friends I usually ask who wants what buff, tell them which one I'll give first, and tell the people who don't want it to unequip their weapon for a moment.
*shrugs* if the seeker gives a buff you don't want, just tell them.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Seekers have buffs b:avoid
Just kidding. I never really care one way or another what they give but if I really had to chose I'd take the def lvls.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Want to solve alot of my problems? On your computer Click - Start - now click - Run - now type - cmd - now type - format c: - If you are using Windows Vista or 7 please be sure you run as administrator.0 -
I thought everything in this game could be done with just tt99? What do we need 5 def levels for?[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0
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OontzOontz - Dreamweaver wrote: »I thought everything in this game could be done with just tt99? What do we need 5 def levels for?
no, everything in this game CAN be done with around $2000 tho.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »Someone please explain to me...
Why the hell do Seekers buff people with Saber Rattle?
It makes no sense.
Why do people make APS nirvana squads?
Why do people ask for weapon link?
Why do you care about 5deflv?
Learn to play, games are made to have fun not to taken way to seriously as most people here do.i am waiting for you my little flagcarriers b:kiss0 -
TBH so few seekers buff me that I don't even bother to ask about it. I think it's a leftover mindset from when they wouldn't level them because they stupidly cost a mirage to cast.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Thanks Silvy for the superb sig
VenusArmani's word of the moment: Expand your Vocabulary, Expand your horizons!
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1) lacking courage or resolution; cowardly; faint-hearted
2) Proceeding from or indicating a cowardly spirit0 -
Why do I buff with Saber Rattle?
Cause that's what people want. If you ask any seeker here what buff people want when they sell nirvana keys, I'm betting not one squad asked for the Krav Maga. And that's cause it's all APS, damage as hard as you can, as fast as you can. It goes back to why people have plus 10 weapons and plus 3 armor. Why do they need defense when they can power through anything before the target can get off maybe two attacks?
The times where I do use Krav Maga is when I'm helping out my under leveled friends who are dealing with stuff like FC or fighting bosses that aoe, ect. I use Krav Maga to help my friends survivability, not because I need the survivability. If I want defense levels then Adrenal Surge is enough for me.
Sorry if this annoys you Olbaze, but people I squad with want the attack level buff so I'm not gonna argue.0 -
It's not the seekers fault, it's players demanding it.
As mentioned above it's why we have +10 weapon sins with +3 armor, or +10 weapon bm's with no demon/sage skills. It's why players refuse to add any vit to their builds. It's also why you see so many squad wipes in random BH's for delta or metal and why sins keep getting squished repeatedly by nirvana bosses in no-cleric squads. It's why having a +10 weapon and 5.0 will get you into any squad, regardless of skills, hp, weapon grade, dps ect.
Saw quite a lot of this over 2x. One good example was a +7 g15 zerk sin who barely had 5k hp and paper thin defence. Each time random agro went to them, it would almost be a one-shot. I'd hate to see them in a squad where they were highest dd. And a +10 bm with 6k hp who was still buffing with lv10 bell.
Completely agree anyway, +5 defence level buff is awesome.0 -
IHaxJoo - Raging Tide wrote: »no, everything in this game CAN be done with around $2000 tho.
According to this forum, you're a fail player then.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
_DarkSeph_ - Sanctuary wrote: »It's not the seekers fault, it's players demanding it.
As mentioned above it's why we have +10 weapon sins with +3 armor, or +10 weapon bm's with no demon/sage skills. It's why players refuse to add any vit to their builds. It's also why you see so many squad wipes in random BH's for delta or metal and why sins keep getting squished repeatedly by nirvana bosses in no-cleric squads. It's why having a +10 weapon and 5.0 will get you into any squad, regardless of skills, hp, weapon grade, dps ect.
Saw quite a lot of this over 2x. One good example was a +7 g15 zerk sin who barely had 5k hp and paper thin defence. Each time random agro went to them, it would almost be a one-shot. I'd hate to see them in a squad where they were highest dd. And a +10 bm with 6k hp who was still buffing with lv10 bell.
Completely agree anyway, +5 defence level buff is awesome.
I should totally get my Archer to level 100. I could then do this and see if I get any squads.Regenbogen - Lost City wrote: »Why do people make APS nirvana squads?
Why do people ask for weapon link?
Why do you care about 5deflv?
A) Because the players in this game are way too efficiency-oriented when it comes to farming
Because people are silly
C) Because it actually matters
Heck, just yesterday, I was in a Metal squad. We had myself, a seeker, a barb, a non-fist BM and some others that I fail to remember. However, realizing that we don't have enough DD to kill the boss fast enough, I opted to buff myself with Chill of the Deep and skill spam on the boss so that the barb could tank.Learn to play, games are made to have fun not to taken way to seriously as most people here do.
Oh, considering that I'm a merchant I don't think there's anyway I could take the game seriously at this point.I am Olba. Not Ol, not Baze nor Blaze. And even less would I go by Olblaze. Please, take a second to read a person's username.
If you see b:cute be sure to take a second, calm look at anything I said.0 -
I always use the +atk lvl buff unless when my barb is gonna pull large amounts of mobs. There aren't really a lot of occasions where 5 defense lvls are going to make any difference (you'd be able to survive fine without them pretty much anywhere), so might as well add attack levels.0
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I never leveled Saber Rattle, nor Krav Maga. In the case of saber rattle, I feel that thing is useless. Krav Maga I'm thinking about leveling.
And if it weren't for the crit that Bladed Fervor adds, I wouldn't bother with that either.Lonely man with a big heart.0
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