3rd cast or r9

liamni

well we all know that 3rd cast came out and gives more base def then r9. So which is better for tanking, i know r9 gives def lvl, but recast has given increase physical def and magic def by 6% and stuff

thumbs

I'm too lazy also to figure things out. -Anyone?

Jaabg - Sanctuary

I am too lazy to reply see this post OP for your answer http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1380881

ZetsumieX - Raging Tide

i say HA t3 is really OP (but only if full 6pcs), but the wep is missing the gof that r9 has...

i'd go a mix between full t3 armor and r9 ring + belt + wep (even tho the axes are not bad at all [ and claws are op ] @ t3)

Maelael - Heavens Tear

I posted this on my fac forum back when it was first coming out. I think Ill do some more effort here, as I imagine this is gonna come up at least 10 more times.

http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1361011

80% for three sockets on the armor, 90% for 1 socket on weapons.

40 attack levels on weapons automagically.

Quick and Simple though:

Full 3rd Cast Nirvana [Req: 7 Pieces]
With 1st Stage Cube Neck and Warsong Belt, 2 Sky Covers.
40+20+4+1=65 Attack Levels
15+1+1=17 Defense Levels

Full R9 [Req: 6 Pieces]
With 1st Stage Cube Neck, R9 Ring, Sky Cover and 2nd Stage Nirvana Helm and Robe.
30+10+20+3+5+2+1=71 Attack Levels
10+10+5+1=26 Defense Levels


N3 vs R9:
N3 hits R9 at 39 Attack Levels
R9 hits N3 at 54 Attack Levels
R9 has 38% advantage.

If the translation comes across true, N3 may have better base Phys and Mag resists if I can get the time later to add it all up. But that attack level advantage is a house.

What is important to analyze is that fact that N3 has 9% more Pdef and Mdef. Saku or another number cruncher would have to check my math how this translates:

physical reduction% = physical defense / ( ( 40 * attacker level ) + physical defense - 25 )
physical reduction% = 209 / ( ( 40 * 101 ) + 209 - 25 )

So If Im right, about 5%. If my stuff is straight, thats still a 21% advantage R9 has.

Now, adding in the possible 20% bump to Phys Def and Mag def, kiiinda estimating at this point cause I'm getting bored, if were looking at a half return from that, that closes the gap by another 10%. So were looking at a 10% advantage that R9 may have. But again, bored with the math in this - were just estimating.

Also consider the fact that you get 900 more HP from the set bonus (945 with neck). But, the stats you get from R9 feel way more relevant for things like PvP and TW.

I really have not looked too far into it given I have R9, but a quickie cost comparison:

(Gold conversion at 1.5m, Cannies at 300k, Raps at 1.5m, Pretend each base gear is 25m [weapon 15], EoD at 3m, EoO at 8m)

R9: 2,270m
N3: 1,044m and a LOT of Warsong runs.

54% savings.
Kinda looking at 32m per percentile increase in attack levels of R9 over N3 at 38%, 58m per percentile increase at 21%. Ouch.

But that's if you don't reroll, and not counting the 200-260m in Socket stones you may have to spend. Lets say you get decent percentages, and end up with 3 socket armor, and 1 socket weapons:

200*6=1,200m, plus another 200m for the weapon, and youre at 1,400m

Thats 1044+1400=2,444m. More expensive than R9 if you get only average luck with sockets.

Overall, N3 is a great deal if you're not worried about sockets or rerolls. But, if my estimations are at least close, R9 will always be 10% better...and N3 may cost way more over time with socket cost and rerolls. Also, consider GoF on the R9 axes...that pushes R9 to the realm of WAY BETTER for PvP/TW.

N3 blows R8r out of the water. Now R8r supposedly is getting a bump up, however the cost incurred can float from cheap and lucky if your Faction still runs trials (seems many have quit due to N3), to more expensive than R9. Will have to see what they do to improve R8r. I still need to do my spear one of these days...

Denaini - Sanctuary

I have tried to recreate the G16 gear in PWCalc, based on pwdatabase's information.
This build is full str, change it according to your preferred build. It has average stats, +10 on everything, and no shards included yet (except for 1 in the weapon). Keep in mind that G16 nirvana comes with 3 sockets per piece of armor on average (80% chance), as opposed to the guaranteed 4 sockets of R9. The OHT Gold items represent the G16 items; I have added all the boni including the set bonus randomly on those pieces of gear, so this Calc only works if you keep the full set. Also, no buffs whatsoever are active.

>> G16 HA: http://pwcalc.com/3622dc99736fc30a <<

Comparison to a full str full r9 build defense wise:
R9: 13427 p.def, 4928 m.def, 41 def levels, 14414 HP
Nirvana G16: 17013 p.def, 6231 m.def, 32 def levels, 14192 HP
(again, keep in mind that this is without buffs or shards, and at +10 refines)

semi-relevant: I did the same for LA Nirvana G16. Same conditions as stated for the above HA set apply, except that the weapon has no shard.
Also, for some reason, the LA gloves have the same defenses as the LA boots. Usually, boots have higher defenses than gloves, so I believe this to be a mistake on pwdatabase's part - but it might be the same ingame. Maybe somebody who has those pieces of gear could confirm this. For this set, I used pwdatabase's stats anyway.

>> G16 LA: http://pwcalc.com/bfe46bbac1c4beff <<


Reasons to go for Nirvana G16: tradeable (stashable if bound), cheaper (-> more money left for refines/shards), can be farmed (thus some people might find some satisfaction from not having simply 'bought' their gear), many people think the weapons look better. Then again, those aren't part of the set.
Reasons to go for R9: can be further upgraded, although the relevant step (r9.2 -> r9.3) will require huge amounts of chienkuns if you refined your set prior to it, is superior to g16 if you could afford full josd +12 for either, doesn't need any farming to be done - then again, you can also buy the Nirvana G16 pieces from other players.

With a decent set of Nirvana G16, you will be able to compete with all the R9s. It is slightly less powerful, but also much cheaper. The decision is up to you.

Maelael - Heavens Tear

Denaini - Sanctuary wrote: »

Stuff

It's only "Cheaper" if you don't care about what stats and sockets it rolls - if you're driving for good stats, especially on the weapon you're spending way more than R9.

You also have to consider the lack of GoF. This is a huge gap between the two.

We did some tests with a +10 R9 bow and a +10 N3 bow...the N3 bow hit for about 100 more. So there is that too, but...it doesn't have advanced purge

Denaini - Sanctuary wrote: »

Comparison to a full str full r9 build defense wise:
R9: 13427 p.def, 4928 m.def, 41 def levels, 14414 HP
Nirvana G16: 17013 p.def, 6231 m.def, 32 def levels, 14192 HP

Every def build of R9 I see ends up with more Mdef than that. Kiiiinda if you can, show your R9 build you're using. I have way more varying results.

Also, if you utilize average statistical stats on the N3 stuff, the numbers come down a bit on the N3 stuff.

Reasons to go for Nirvana G16: tradeable (stashable if bound), can be farmed

Teccccchnically you can "Farm" R9 by selling the **** you farm and buying gold with it, but yea, old school "I got this from drops!" is a thing that many like. Tradeable and stashable is a huge thing If you really hafta share stuff with multiple toons.

Denaini - Sanctuary

Kiiiinda if you can, show your R9 build you're using.

I looked at my PWCalc for that R9 build more closely and noticed I didn't implement the G16 Nirvana pieces (helmet and cape) properly. I forgot 9 points of mag which add another 62 m.def, and the HP bonus was off as well. Here's the corrected build: http://pwcalc.com/b3fbf7c109cf5f54 .

I have way more varying results.

Please show me that build if you have a link for it. I'm always open for improvement.

Also, if you utilize average statistical stats on the N3 stuff, the numbers come down a bit on the N3 stuff.

I am unsure as to what you mean by average statistical statistics. As stated in my previous post, I used average stats for the g16 pieces (except 'reduce physical damage taken', which is half a percentage point lower than average)

It's only "Cheaper" if you don't care about what stats and sockets it rolls - if you're driving for good stats, especially on the weapon you're spending way more than R9.

I was referring to G16 nirvana with average stats, crafted by someone with average luck.

You also have to consider the lack of GoF. This is a huge gap between the two.

We did some tests with a +10 R9 bow and a +10 N3 bow...the N3 bow hit for about 100 more. So there is that too, but...it doesn't have advanced purge

In my previous post, I stated that r9 is superior to G16 nirvana - albeit only slightly, putting them both in the same league.

Teccccchnically you can "Farm" R9 by selling the **** you farm and buying gold with it, but yea, old school "I got this from drops!" is a thing that many like.

If you consider farming stuff, selling it, and buying gold with the money 'farming', then everything in this game is farmable, thus kind of defeating the purpose of the term.
However, you CAN technically (but absolutely not realistically) farm R9, by doing countless cube runs (or BHs) for chips, and TW for the medals. And you can farm FB59 for the rep...

Maelael - Heavens Tear

Denaini - Sanctuary wrote: »

I looked at my PWCalc for that R9 build more closely and noticed I didn't implement the G16 Nirvana pieces (helmet and cape) properly. I forgot 9 points of mag which add another 62 m.def, and the HP bonus was off as well. Here's the corrected build: http://pwcalc.com/b3fbf7c109cf5f54 .

Please show me that build if you have a link for it. I'm always open for improvement.

Yea...use N2 for hat and cape.

Denaini - Sanctuary wrote: »

I am unsure as to what you mean by average statistical statistics. As stated in my previous post, I used average stats for the g16 pieces (except 'reduce physical damage taken', which is half a percentage point lower than average)

I may have counted the stats wrong. I will come back to this and play around for sure. Ive got an oddball day today, but I didnt want to let this thread die and have me forget about it - you put in the effort, you deserve a response.

Denaini - Sanctuary wrote: »

In my previous post, I stated that r9 is superior to G16 nirvana - albeit only slightly, putting them both in the same league.

Totally! I 100% agree, and I was agreeing with you. My main disagreement is due to socket cost, and possible reroll cost, it ends up being MORE expensive than R9.

Denaini - Sanctuary wrote: »

If you consider farming stuff, selling it, and buying gold with the money 'farming', then everything in this game is farmable, thus kind of defeating the purpose of the term.
However, you CAN technically (but absolutely not realistically) farm R9, by doing countless cube runs (or BHs) for chips, and TW for the medals. And you can farm FB59 for the rep...

Everything in this game is "Farmable" by my definition...but I get what you mean. Usually nowadays when people say "Farmable" it means not charging gold, so Im used to that.

And back in the day we used to farm rep, and it was a dogpile to get into FB groups for the rep. I actually had a ton of rep from back in the day, thereby lowering my cost to rank up.