Why Do Russian Wizards Use Aquaflame Armour

Hurrdurr - Lothranis

Why is that that all Russian wizards use Aquaflame armour over windshield while on PWI it's the other way round. I've yet to see one PWI wizard use AFA while it's so common on Russian servers, you just got to look as some of their wizard PvP to see.

My question is am I missing something? Windshield seems superior in every way I can tell :

---

Energy :

AFA - 95
WS - 62

Reduction :

AFA - [dex]/4
WS - 15+[dex]/8

Time :

AFA - 10s
WS - 8+[dex]/50

Cool down:

AFA - 60s
WS - 1s

Others :

Windshield increases evasion and APS.

---

The only advantages I can see to AFA is that it lasts an extra second on a genie with sub 100 dex. Because it gives the HF debuff amp maybe it could also be used to overwrite BV or HF. But even suppose it does it doesn't seem to justify picking it over WS. Am I, amongst many other PWI wizards missing something that Russian wizards have picked up on? Why do almost all Russian wizards use AFA over WS?

Adroit - Lost City

I wondered the same thing a while ago, I think AFA has an additional 5% reduction over WS w/ equivalent dex.. but that doesn't make the extra energy/cooldown/amp seem any more attractive to me. My only guess is that perhaps the description is wrong, and we don't have all the facts when comparing the two (either that or they are just ****.. who knows?)

Hurrdurr - Lothranis

Equilibrium of damage reduction is 120 dex.

15+120/8 = 30
120/4 = 30

Adroit - Lost City

It shows on ecatomb they get the same 1% bonus reduction per 8 dex, I wasn't aware there was an equilibrium of damage reduction.

Hurrdurr - Lothranis

"Dexterity: Every 8 Genie Dexterity points increases the damage reduction by 1%.
Dexterity: Every 8 Genie Dexterity points reduces the damage increase by 1%."

I took that to mean for every 8 dexterity points there is 2% difference between damage increased and reduction, and therefore 2% reduction. Going by that on 120 dex genie you should obtain 30% reduction, the same as WS. However the wording is pretty bad and the effect seem a little different from my interpretation and in practice from watching videos.

Adroit - Lost City

pretty sure one is talking about the 10 sec reduction, other is talking about the 10 sec amp on AFA

Hurrdurr - Lothranis

From watching the videos I thought they co-existed and not one after the other. It seems that damage reduction and amp co-exist then the amp lasts for an additional time frame.

I don't like posting clips from other versions of PW but :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=rvrAJ1e2RD0#t=78s

As soon as AFA was used both a bless and amp comes into effect, at around 1:25 the bless disappears while the amp remains.

HexOmega - Dreamweaver

from my experience aquaflame armor sucks...

waste of a skill-slot much




you know why they use it
the same reason why we use wind shield

they learn and adapt from what is around them,


back in the time when i was about to take the decision to go demon or sage there was not much thinking
demon was extremely superior to sage by the state of mind of people at that time
nobody was lvl99, and lvl90 gear was endgame
so sage bids was of no relevance and demon stone barrier was the shiizzz
i dont know if other servers had the same thing, but on dw a sage wiz was really rare back at the time

so long story short: different hypes in different communiteis or times

Sirrobert - Dreamweaver

HexOmega - Dreamweaver wrote: »

back in the time when i was about to take the decision to go demon or sage there was not much thinking
demon was extremely superior to sage by the state of mind of people at that time
nobody was lvl99, and lvl90 gear was endgame
so sage bids was of no relevance and demon stone barrier was the shiizzz
i dont know if other servers had the same thing, but on dw a sage wiz was really rare back at the time

so long story short: different hypes in different communiteis or times

Hell, back than people would WC 'gratz xxx on going (lvl 89 culti)', and it was a big deal

HexOmega - Dreamweaver

Sirrobert - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Hell, back than people would WC 'gratz xxx on going (lvl 89 culti)', and it was a big deal

well it was
so many gamma squads lol



now, lets stop this oldfaggotry


aquaflame armor? ive never seen anyone of relevance use that on a genie

XxZavxX - Raging Tide

It's the vodka.

HexOmega - Dreamweaver

XxZavxX - Raging Tide wrote: »

It's the vodka.

hey, i like liquid potato

chrono56

I don't know either, I've watched all of KloS's vids and still can't understand why, even if you took out the amp AFA gives WS is still better for its spamability/energy use.

Or maybe they just think that WS is just for aps because of the attack speed increase and haven't noticed it's other effects.

RebeI - Harshlands

chrono56 wrote: »

I don't know either, I've watched all of KloS's vids and still can't understand why, even if you took out the amp AFA gives WS is still better for its spamability/energy use.

Or maybe they just think that WS is just for aps because of the attack speed increase and haven't noticed it's other effects.

KloS's videos? Could you link me to his/her channel pleaseee

chrono56

RebeI - Harshlands wrote: »

KloS's videos? Could you link me to his/her channel pleaseee

http://www.youtube.com/user/KloS311/videos

I left a comment on his latest vid asking him why he uses it, hopefully he'll know the names of the skills. >-<

Yulk_owns - Lost City

Maybe because of these two possibilities, so they believe that they use that genie skill to take even less damage, lock them / stop attacking and let the tanker take aggro back) before amp takes in effect. Something like a last resort skill I guess.

It could also mean they have no idea what they are doing to their wizards.

OliOli - Momaganon

I'm playing wiz on the Russian PW server now so I can answer.

Reason is simple. Russian localization really suck, so Russians don't rely on the description.
The way to determine efficiency without description is test.
Here is the steps to test:
1) have a genie with 100 dex and both skills
2) find a BM and make him attack you using bare fists
3) use both defense skill and compare resulting damage taken.

From my tests - AFA reduce damage by ~-46% and WS only ~-27%.
The problem with AFA is that after reduction there is a ~5 sec when damage is ~+50% from original and you can easily die during this time.

If you wish, I can re-test it and give you a video.

chrono56

If I have everything right this is what it should be like on a 100 dex genie;

Windshield;

Duration: 10 seconds
Damage Reduction: 27%
Energy: 62
Cooldown: 1 second

Aqua Flame Armour;

Duration: 10 seconds
Damage reduction: 32%
Energy: 95
Cooldown: 60 seconds

Amp;

10 second duration
8% damage Amp

---

So to conclude;

-They have the same durations
-Aqua Flame Armour has 5% damage reduction OVER Windshield
-Windshield costs 33 energy less.
-Windshield is spamable at a 1 second cooldown.
-Windshield doesn't have an 10 second 8% amp after the duration.

I'd rather take 5% less damage reduction over the 10 seconds than have a 8% amp after the 10 seconds.
Bit of a no brainer when put like this.

TJTLegend - Archosaur

OliOli - Momaganon wrote: »

I'm playing wiz on the Russian PW server now so I can answer.

Reason is simple. Russian localization really suck, so Russians don't rely on the description.
The way to determine efficiency without description is test.
Here is the steps to test:
1) have a genie with 100 dex and both skills
2) find a BM and make him attack you using bare fists
3) use both defense skill and compare resulting damage taken.

From my tests - AFA reduce damage by ~-46% and WS only ~-27%.
The problem with AFA is that after reduction there is a ~5 sec when damage is ~+50% from original and you can easily die during this time.

If you wish, I can re-test it and give you a video.

Pls do give us a video.

TJTLegend - Archosaur

From my observation of Klos's videos:
The vid that Hurrdurr linked has some nice use of AFA, the damage reduction is definetly more than what the description says.

I dont know if the wizzy in the vid (Loctar) has a 100 dex genie or not.
However, at 02:43 of the vid, Loctar used his AFA to counter Klos's genie sparked blade tempest. Now the damage Klos dealt was 2127 damage.

Then at exactly 04:00 of the same vid, Klos dished out a genie sparked blade tempest to Loctar. This time Loctar didnt use his AFA, so the genie sparked bladetempest done 4594 damage. Now, at both of these times Klos had his stone barrier active and on and no other defense buffs were on , except from the AFA defense buff at 02:43. It was just clean genie sparked blade tempests that dealt damage to Loctar. No use of ep, undine or any other damage bonuses. Just CLEAN genie spark bladetempests.

Doubling the genie sparked...... lol I'll call blade tempest bt from now on.b:chuckle
Anyways, doubling the genie sparked bt at 02:43 of the vid, it would have done 4254 damage if my maths is correct. However the damage done at 04:00 of the vid was 4594 damage. It is clear that the AFA used at 02:43 of the vid reduced the genie sparked bt for more than 50%. Do remember his genie may not be 100 dex, so the damage reduction could even be higher.

For the lazy peeps: With AFA: 2127 damage
Without AFA: 4594 damage

Personally I see this as a very good skill and will try it out myself.
Gz to yall if u read the whole of my post lol. b:victory

chrono56

TJTLegend - Archosaur wrote: »

From my observation of Klos's videos:
The vid that Hurrdurr linked has some nice use of AFA, the damage reduction is definetly more than what the description says.

I dont know if the wizzy in the vid (Loctar) has a 100 dex genie or not.
However, at 02:43 of the vid, Loctar used his AFA to counter Klos's genie sparked blade tempest. Now the damage Klos dealt was 2127 damage.

Then at exactly 04:00 of the same vid, Klos dished out a genie sparked blade tempest to Loctar. This time Loctar didnt use his AFA, so the genie sparked bladetempest done 4594 damage. Now, at both of these times Klos had his stone barrier active and on and no other defense buffs were on , except from the AFA defense buff at 02:43. It was just clean genie sparked blade tempests that dealt damage to Loctar. No use of ep, undine or any other damage bonuses. Just CLEAN genie spark bladetempests.

Doubling the genie sparked...... lol I'll call blade tempest bt from now on.b:chuckle
Anyways, doubling the genie sparked bt at 02:43 of the vid, it would have done 4254 damage if my maths is correct. However the damage done at 04:00 of the vid was 4594 damage. It is clear that the AFA used at 02:43 of the vid reduced the genie sparked bt for more than 50%. Do remember his genie may not be 100 dex, so the damage reduction could even be higher.

For the lazy peeps: With AFA: 2127 damage
Without AFA: 4594 damage

Personally I see this as a very good skill and will try it out myself.
Gz to yall if u read the whole of my post lol. b:victory

So it wasn't just me that thought the numbers were completely off, I wish PWI got there descriptions right for once. -.-
I thought at 1st it might be him hitting for the lowest magic attack on his wep but he's using a wand so it doesn't efect that much at all. When I have time soon I'll test both WS and AFA on a 100 dex genie on a pserver where I can get exact same gear and a 100 dex genie easy, I'll record and share results, I may do it tommorrow.

_CurseD - Archosaur

chrono56 wrote: »

So it wasn't just me that thought the numbers were completely off, I wish PWI got there descriptions right for once. -.-
I thought at 1st it might be him hitting for the lowest magic attack on his wep but he's using a wand so it doesn't efect that much at all. When I have time soon I'll test both WS and AFA on a 100 dex genie on a pserver where I can get exact same gear and a 100 dex genie easy, I'll record and share results, I may do it tommorrow.

i think you are correct. i just tested it on my genie

my genie is 94/105

it has 100 dex. so the way i did it is. i asked a sin to punch me so all the dmg i will take will be the same. i took 30 dmg from the normal punch. w/ windhshield or aqua

i made my windshield lvl 10 ---- (-27.5% total) --- dmg i took went down to 22 dmg

i made my Aquaflame armor to lvl 5

---

(-27.5% total) --- dmg i took went down to 17 dmg


so ya aquaflame armor reduces more dmg than windshield

gtnight

TJTLegend - Archosaur wrote: »

Pls do give us a video.

Hi all PWI community!
I'm playing wizz and I'm russian b:pleased
There's my test of AFA and WS genie skills:
http://youtu.be/4CDk8Ku2X9k?hd=1

Genie dex: 88
Normal attack: ~70-72
AFA: ~35-36 (~50% dmg reduction)
WS: ~52-53 (~28% dmg reduction)

So... it's not a vodka, AFA really reduces more dmg than WS b:chuckle

chrono56

gtnight wrote: »

Hi all PWI community!
I'm playing wizz and I'm russian b:pleased
There's my test of AFA and WS genie skills:
http://youtu.be/4CDk8Ku2X9k?hd=1

Genie dex: 88
Normal attack: ~70-72
AFA: ~35-36 (~50% dmg reduction)
WS: ~52-53 (~28% dmg reduction)

So... it's not a vodka, AFA really reduces more dmg than WS b:chuckle

Hmm, the skills description is 100% wrong then.

The amp by calculation of what the description says is 20% and for every 8 dex points = 1% reduced on the amp.

So base 20%

100 dex boints/8 = 12.5

20-12.5= 7.5%

So in theory the amp should only be 7-8% (I don't know how PW rounds) >-<

However in the video the amp is 31% or so.

Thank you very much for the video btw. I am still puzzled by this skill however.

OliOli - Momaganon

TJTLegend - Archosaur wrote: »

Pls do give us a video.

Here you go http://youtu.be/AtMUNNPNKE8

Damage without anything: 127
Damage with WS: 92 (reduction 27.56%)
Damage with AFA defense: 59 (reduction 53.54%)
Damage with AFA increase: 168 (increase 32.28%)

chrono56

OliOli - Momaganon wrote: »

Here you go http://youtu.be/AtMUNNPNKE8

Damage without anything: 127
Damage with WS: 92 (reduction 27.56%)
Damage with AFA defense: 59 (reduction 53.54%)
Damage with AFA increase: 168 (increase 32.28%)

Yeah those correlate with the other video but at least we know now that the Description is false.

Thanks for the video guys, not sure I'd use it, the AMP seems a bit too much for me and it costs 95 energy.

OliOli - Momaganon

question is no *use or not*, question is *when to use*.
We use AFA when you can't use immunity pot (i.e. sleep or stun) and can receive damage.
AFA give us time to live long enough for sleep/stun to end. Then we use immunity pot or flee from damage.
AMP has no effect in our use case.

WS usage is confusing to me. I see no case when I need 27% damage reduction.
On PvP you either receive low damage and live without reduction or receive huge damage and 27% won't save you.
AFA also not always save me, 53% reduction is still not enough.

Example of me using AFA:
I do something and priest attacks me, he use sleep on me and 3 spark himself.
I use AFA and him damage does not kills me in one shot and cancels sleep, then I use magic reduction Defense Charm and 79th debuff, when AFA reduction ends I made priest unable to attack me during AMP (sleep, stun, etc.).

spooten1

Oooh, whether this is a necro or not, I just thought of a reason why both the amp debuff and the bless buff appear at the same time!

I don't think the dev's made a, "wait 20 seconds before sticking this debuff on" method, so they had to put them both on at the same time. on top of that, this might be why the aquaflame armor works with the extra 20% damage reduction. To combat the fact that there was now a 20% amp on the character at the same time that there is a 20% bless, the devs made the bless 40% instead of 20%. My theory is (haven't tested, it just makes sense) the amp is completely blocked off but not removed if there is a bless status on the character as well.

The skill description should read...

Combines the power of water and fire into a chaotic shield.
Reduces the damage you take by 31-40% for 10 seconds,
then increases the damage you take by 11-20% for 10 seconds.

Dexterity: Every 8 Dexterity genie points increases the damage reduction by 1%
Dexterity: Every 8 dexterity genie points reduces the damage increase by 1%