HA/AA veno build

Desdi - Sanctuary

Kiseop - Harshlands wrote: »

Thanks everyone ^^
I'm happy i came here before trying anything...b:chuckle

I was afraid that if i was AA i would have way too low def
but the bigged difference is between their HPs, right?

about the damage, i think both trees are amazing, I'm still thinking about it, i really like some of fox skills as well as i like being a caster

but i still got time to analyze! b:victory thanks, guys

When it comes to refining HA gets the most HP per refine, LA I don't remember but it's either same as HA or a bit lower and AA gets the least. This is because AA classes are meant to stand back and cast from afar while HA classes take the hits. Also, because AA can stand back and kill the mob(s) before they reach the person so they "don't" need HP.

To get a lot of HP as an AA you will need to follow a VIT build (but then you need good refines on weapon) or invest into high refines and good shards. Nevetheless, an AA cannot get the same HP as a HA with the same shards and refines.

When it comes to physical defence, there are ornaments, bonuses from gear, fox form itself as well as you can shard a mix of garnets and citrines and get a decent physical defence.

You need to balance both defences and HP however. HP alone won't be enough if you get hit for high numbers and defence alone won't be enough if your HP pool is too little. Apart from gear though, skills play a role too. Venos get a few self buffs and panic buttons that help us survive. So it's both the gear and skill.

HA is the tanky build, you give up some of your magic attack to gain more defence/hp.

Kiseop - Harshlands

Can you guys post AA and HA build you like on pwcal?
sorry if i'm asking too much

are these ok?
http://pwcalc.com/fc77dfd8875ef91e
http://pwcalc.com/07404ef194d46d83
http://pwcalc.com/ed31d4c2b32fe77d

the ones posted earlier on this thread
kinda biased, AA equips are much better, wanted something more even to compare ):

Squeakytoy - Dreamweaver

Kiseop - Harshlands wrote: »

Can you guys post AA and HA build you like on pwcal?
sorry if i'm asking too much

are these ok?
http://pwcalc.com/fc77dfd8875ef91e
http://pwcalc.com/07404ef194d46d83
http://pwcalc.com/ed31d4c2b32fe77d

the ones posted earlier on this thread
kinda biased, AA equips are much better, wanted something more even to compare ):

The rank 9 AA build was posted as a rather unsuccessful troll attempt. I mean really, only an idiot would put a jade of steady defense in their weapon.

Other than that, The HA build I posted was just thrown together at random. There are no guarantees when it comes to stats on G15 nirvana weapons, nor are there guarantees on things like ring engravings. The refines/tome/equipment I listed are also quite costly (though not nearly as much as rank 9 +12).

You're the only one who can decide which gear will suit your build the best. Whether or not to focus on APS for instance. Or how many stat points you need to make up in order to make your build work.

Kiseop - Harshlands

Squeakytoy - Dreamweaver wrote: »

The rank 9 AA build was posted as a rather unsuccessful troll attempt. I mean really, only an idiot would put a jade of steady defense in their weapon.

Other than that, The HA build I posted was just thrown together at random. There are no guarantees when it comes to stats on G15 nirvana weapons, nor are there guarantees on things like ring engravings. The refines/tome/equipment I listed are also quite costly (though not nearly as much as rank 9 +12).

You're the only one who can decide which gear will suit your build the best. Whether or not to focus on APS for instance. Or how many stat points you need to make up in order to make your build work.

i wanted to go heavy, but i wanted to also be able to cast ):
but i think the m.atck from heavy is too low, so i must decide which one i'll get m.atk or heavy armor... b:shutup
it's hard hahah

what happens to HA accuracy? is it enough?

Squeakytoy - Dreamweaver

Kiseop - Harshlands wrote: »

i wanted to go heavy, but i wanted to also be able to cast ):
but i think the m.atck from heavy is too low, so i must decide which one i'll get m.atk or heavy armor... b:shutup
it's hard hahah

what happens to HA accuracy? is it enough?

For PvE, accuracy doesn't matter. For PvP, you're probably not going to melee much at all. But I don't PvP so I may be wrong.

Kiseop - Harshlands

Squeakytoy - Dreamweaver wrote: »

For PvE, accuracy doesn't matter. For PvP, you're probably not going to melee much at all. But I don't PvP so I may be wrong.

i see, i really like the effects of fox skills ):
wish veno skill had some better effects b:pleased

Kiseop - Harshlands

Is it possible to be AA veno, but still use fox attacks agains't mages?

Mayfly - Dreamweaver

Yes. All foxform attacks are base physical attack + constant. Your auto-attack will be very weak compared to an HA fox, so you'd want to spam skills while in foxform. The hard part is getting them to stand still long enough for you to use damage-causing foxform skills. (The curses are ranged, but have shorter ranges than the human form skills.)

Cody_tylor - Sanctuary

Desdi - Sanctuary wrote: »

You know Cody, I hadn't had a nice argument on the forums in a long time. I really like this lol.

I didn't meant to say AA can get as much HP, that was a mistake on my part, I meant something along the lines that they can get a lot of HP too (10k or so). An uber-highly refined HA veno will probably get a rather scary amount of HP though. Sure melee classes would benefit more but I'd love to see a high HP veno regardless.

When it comes to VIT builds, I prefer HA over VIT arcane builds because those two builds can get about the same amount of magic attack (same weapon) but a HA veno would also have better physical attack, ontop of that can get both magic and physical defences but inevitably requires a higher budget.

Likewise, that is really a good discussion.

A VIT-Arcane veno could get 15k HP base with G15 nirvana, I am not sure about the G16 one though, I also prefer HA over VIT arcane builds as well because HA takes full advantage on fox form.

Squeakytoy - Dreamweaver wrote: »

For PvE, accuracy doesn't matter. For PvP, you're probably not going to melee much at all. But I don't PvP so I may be wrong.

For PVE is true that accuracy does not matter, fox form adds a great deal of accuracy even for HA builds or even putting in amber gems into weapon, you can get 1341 accuracy with 5 base VIT on one accuracy G12 gem. Also most venoes don't really melee as they usually are arcane, but I have experienced and seen melee venomancers do really great in PVP, they do take advantage on both forms. Accuracy does not really matter here either too much, your defenses and HP is more important than accuracy.

Mayfly - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Yes. All foxform attacks are base physical attack + constant. Your auto-attack will be very weak compared to an HA fox, so you'd want to spam skills while in foxform. The hard part is getting them to stand still long enough for you to use damage-causing foxform skills. (The curses are ranged, but have shorter ranges than the human form skills.)

There is a lot of casters, the good part of venoes that they can lock someone who hits and runs in place for 16 seconds (You need to have your opponent stunned, Nova for 8 seconds and stunning blow for another 8 seconds, they will be vulnerable for that much time)

Kiseop - Harshlands

Cody you're a HA veno right?
can you tell about your pvp and pve life?
i'm really curious about HA veno... i stopped playing this 3 years ago, and HA veno were not really popular

Desdi - Sanctuary

I will add my two cents.

I used to have two venomancers, this one started with a Vit build which then I turned into a hybrid and now she has 30Vit that I might restat in the future. The other one started as LA and then went HA. I gave up on her though because I only wanted one as main.

I have to say playing as LA, and later HA, was really really fun. It was fun because I was tanky. On early levels AA are rather squishy. Refining and sharding heavily is not worth it because you can level fast but then AA ends up as..squishy.

I enjoyed being LA/HA because I was able to tank (more) mobs or even bosses in some situations from earlier levels. I had an AA set too but it was inferior in terms of shard/refining (had a tight budget at the time) that's something serious HA/LA venos shouldn't neglect. Mostly HA ones. I didn't PvP much, besides duels so I leave that to be covered by someone else..

My pet healing was sufficient for the things I needed, no tanking bosses since I could body tank. I'd probably not heal a pet through a boss at the time but I wasn't interested in pet-tanking when I could do it myself.

You can still cast attacks, use magic. Your magic will be much weaker at first but that's until you can get a good weapon with good refines, endgame mostly, which is more of a reason to restat to HA later. You won't reach the magic attack of a pure mag veno but that's not the point of the HA build anyway

In any case you can still do all the things a veno can do and additionally be more tanky, have more survivability (than AA with same gear), nice dps/dph in melee at the cost of having lower dps/dph in magic and a weaker pet heal.

AA venos tend to rely on pet mostly for tanking and (typical herc venos) require high pet heal that is not covered with a HA build..but this is a different subject that leads to boss tanking, soloing bosses, soloing TT..which bosses AA can herc-tank and which HA can do. etc. etc.

This is also a mistake a lot of AA veno do; rely on pet so much that when their pet dies they are pretty much dead themselves. They don't know (or have the gear) to survive otherwise.

In the end I went AA because well..that's what I liked the most. Plus it was my main, I knew I was going to invest into her and get her decent endgame gears to make me not so squishy. I'm also not really the melee type of person, I naturally prefer casters XD. Even as an AA though, I use the fox form skills fairly often. The freeze, the AOE, the chance to have all crits (demon fox wallop ) and force crit nova b:dirty

Sorry for another wall of text lol o_o

Kiseop - Harshlands

Thansk for taking your time to share your experiences, Desdi
that was pretty nice b:pleased

I'll probably be AA too, since i like being caster, but i can also use some fox skills when in need b:victory