Bow Spike dmg + Dex build = Hax?
X/GeoProxyX - Harshlands28
Posts: 2 Arc User
Ok so I thought i'd post this in the archer forums instead of seeker since u guys apparently like to do the numbers thing with the calculations. This might sound like a weird question and it could just be my imagination but from wut i have felt myself and observed in pvp between archers and seekers fighting an HA target we'll say for example, when i see hp bars dropping it seems like archer metal dmg is doing more than seeker's metal dmg.
I wanna say it's crits but then even from my bm's perspective when i fight an archer and a seeker, the archer metal dmg seems to hurt more. Many things could be a factor i guess like build and such , and battousai is pretty **** dmg but im mostly talking about heartseeker and i guess ion spike which both have weapon dmg % added into the skill so i suspected those would hurt more rather than the archer metal attacks that dont..
But like i said i could be imagining it, and it sometimes seems that archers crit more than sins ( even under regular conditions without the demon skills that enhance crit further). So ya i guess my question is... Is it all just cause of the weapon range of a bow with high dex build for pure dmg that seems to be out dding even the seeker metal dmg with weapon % in the skills? Swords in comparison arent exactly next in line for weapon dmg but ive even seen
a simple +4 heavenshatter bow chopping away more chunks of ppl's hp than i would have expected.. x_@
I wanna say it's crits but then even from my bm's perspective when i fight an archer and a seeker, the archer metal dmg seems to hurt more. Many things could be a factor i guess like build and such , and battousai is pretty **** dmg but im mostly talking about heartseeker and i guess ion spike which both have weapon dmg % added into the skill so i suspected those would hurt more rather than the archer metal attacks that dont..
But like i said i could be imagining it, and it sometimes seems that archers crit more than sins ( even under regular conditions without the demon skills that enhance crit further). So ya i guess my question is... Is it all just cause of the weapon range of a bow with high dex build for pure dmg that seems to be out dding even the seeker metal dmg with weapon % in the skills? Swords in comparison arent exactly next in line for weapon dmg but ive even seen
a simple +4 heavenshatter bow chopping away more chunks of ppl's hp than i would have expected.. x_@
Post edited by X/GeoProxyX - Harshlands28 on
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Comments
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heavy lower metal resists vs las higher metal resists?0
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SpazzMcAps - Harshlands wrote: »heavy lower metal resists vs las higher metal resists?
Man ur everywhere lol. And i meant if both were attacking an HA target with their metal skills the archer's looks like it's doing more if im not mistaken. Could be gear difference but i would notice something obvious like '' the archer was r9 and the seeker was tt90 *gasp*'' lol0 -
X/GeoProxyX - Harshlands wrote: »Man ur everywhere lol. And i meant if both were attacking an HA target with their metal skills the archer's looks like it's doing more if im not mistaken. Could be gear difference but i would notice something obvious like '' the archer was r9 and the seeker was tt90 *gasp*'' lol
oh, and in that case i have no clue.
i also post on every section because im interested
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yeah I believe its due to Archers being able to sink all those Dex poins itnto their builds and it increases their damage and lets them wear the weapons and gear they need, and crit rate to boot.
Seekers need Dex and Strength, and I myself like a little vit, so we don't hit anywhere near as much as Archers. Since we are only getting power from Strength, and the Dex (and maybe Vit) is taking away from damage we could be doing.
To answer Spazz, only mag res debuff we have is 30% (35% Sage)
Not sure what Archer debuff % is. I know a R9 who's metal res debuff skill is lvl 1, so they may not even use it much.
I also believe Bows hit for **** damage sometimes, so that may be a possibility. At the same time that spike damage could also be on the lower end of the damage range, so it balances itself out.
But I've never played an Archer so feel free to call me ignorant.0 -
Archers have much more DEX than you have STR, so they have a much higher weapon damage multiplier. = 1+ DEX/150 + mastery (0.6 for lvl 10) + attack buffs. Since your base damage is weapon damage multiply by the multiplier and some other stuff that I don't remember anymore because I quit, Archers have higher base damage (one shows up in character sheet) than you, and most skills are base damage + others.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
"Closing this for excess letter Q's" - hawk0 -
Archers have the highest base damage of any physical class because:
- Highest weapon damage in the game
- Arrows increase weapon damage further
However, they lack weapon damage multipliers for a lot of their nukes.Elena Costel: I wash my hands of this affair.
Legerity: *drags you back* *stains your hands with said affair*
Elena Costel: Noooo... I don't want to have a dirty affair with Lady Legerity...
Qui: b:dirty0 -
I can hit a medium geared BM for 2k.
The other thing to keep in mind, one of the Metal attacks reduces target's Metal resistance. When I see a BM, barb, or Seeker, I open with that, then spam the rest of my metal skills and Sage frost arrow until they either kite, kill me, or die. Sometimes I have to switch targets, like if a nice, juicy cleric flies into view.
I don't really have a Seeker to PVP/TW with yet. Is in the works. Eventually.
The big thing I think that holds the Seeker back is the fact taht they need Dex for swords, and Str for HA. the Dex requirements hurt their maximum damage output some, though Crits should make up for that. One person I know plays an HA archer, and while he agrees it's fail, he says that there are skills on Archer that are more dependent on weapon damage and refine than dex based attack. Either way, not gonna roll HA on an archer >_>101 Sage Sin*/Archer
100 Demon BM*/Barb
96 Demon Cleric/Sage Seeker
95 Demon Wiz/
94 Sage Veno
85 Psy/80 Mystic
And a handful of other alts, all 79 and under.
*Pre RB level0 -
Archers Stat minimun str for armor and mostly DEX for weapons , armor , and weapon dmg (bows crossbows and slingshot) depends on Dex , which archers have more.
Seekers have to put both Str and Dex for Heavy armor and Swords. Some stat vit too , but endgame htey are mostly pure.
Bows and Crossbows have the highest weapon damage in the game. Combined with high crit rate and dex dmg bonus , there is a reason why they are called the physical nukers in this game.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
<--- MALE Veno ..... Moved to G W 2 or maybe not completely , don't know ...... PW addiction
{That TT xbow chain is one that describes someone's bowel movements after having too much spicy food. A loud **** (Thundercrack), then a burning sensation (Flash Fire), followed by an explosion of multi-colored poo-confetti (Blinding Radiance). Excellent...} By Quilue0 -
I think Seekers can get 450 str. So I don't think the multiplier is a factor.Divine_Death - Dreamweaver wrote: »Archers have much more DEX than you have STR, so they have a much higher weapon damage multiplier. = 1+ DEX/150 + mastery (0.6 for lvl 10) + attack buffs. Since your base damage is weapon damage multiply by the multiplier and some other stuff that I don't remember anymore because I quit, Archers have higher base damage (one shows up in character sheet) than you, and most skills are base damage + others.
^What? O_oQuilue - Sanctuary wrote: »However, they lack weapon damage multipliers for a lot of their nukes.
This.Phoenix_Eye - Heavens Tear wrote: »Archers Stat minimun str for armor and mostly DEX for weapons , armor , and weapon dmg (bows crossbows and slingshot) depends on Dex , which archers have more.
Seekers have to put both Str and Dex for Heavy armor and Swords. Some stat vit too , but endgame htey are mostly pure.
Bows and Crossbows have the highest weapon damage in the game. Combined with high crit rate and dex dmg bonus , there is a reason why they are called the physical nukers in this game.
That archer is an idiot then. Maxed Leveled Thundershock is a 50% metal reduction..... which stacked with a lightning strike hurts like a ****...Bows generally dont have that big of a spike damage compared to Xbows. It's mostly our high weapon damage that makes us hit so hard.Rinin - Harshlands wrote: »
To answer Spazz, only mag res debuff we have is 30% (35% Sage)
Not sure what Archer debuff % is. I know a R9 who's metal res debuff skill is lvl 1, so they may not even use it much.
I also believe Bows hit for **** damage sometimes, so that may be a possibility. At the same time that spike damage could also be on the lower end of the damage range, so it balances itself out.
But I've never played an Archer so feel free to call me ignorant.[SIGPIC]http://i48.tinypic.com/2r61kw3.jpg[/SIGPIC]
Ty Fon for the Siggy
The rare and exotic Sage Archer of HT. b:cute0 -
KawaiiJen - Heavens Tear wrote: »I think Seekers can get 450 str. So I don't think the multiplier is a factor.
^What? O_o
This.
That archer is an idiot then. Maxed Leveled Thundershock is a 50% metal reduction..... which stacked with a lightning strike hurts like a ****...Bows generally dont have that big of a spike damage compared to Xbows. It's mostly our high weapon damage that makes us hit so hard.
Most competitive endgame archers have 500+ dex, on an extreme build 600 dex can be achieved. Even at 500 (normal R9 build) vs 450 str (extreme str build seeker) the difference is ~30% weapon attack. When taking in the fact that bows have high base and therefore high weapon attack archers have higher base attack.0 -
Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »However, they lack weapon damage multipliers for a lot of their nukes.
To be fair... archer (like wiz) have a 500% (400% demon) weapon damage skill. Its just that our 500% weapon damage skill sucks more then migue (aka we lack the additional 14k damage, the aoe effect, and the status effect).1. If I kill you; do something about it yourself, don't go complaining to my wife.
2. If you have less kill counts then me, don't expect me to take pk advice from you.
3. If you are hiding behind an alt, don't expect me to acknowledge your existence.
Tokichiro - Heavy Armor Fish / Kiyoshi - Dual Blade Elf0 -
Hurrdurr - Lothranis wrote: »Most competitive endgame archers have 500+ dex, on an extreme build 600 dex can be achieved. Even at 500 (normal R9 build) vs 450 str (extreme str build seeker) the difference is ~30% weapon attack. When taking in the fact that bows have high base and therefore high weapon attack archers have higher base attack.
I would love to see a plausible 600 dex without 2nd-3rd cast r9 and crazy ring engravements. (I can't even get 540.)
Seekers don't need extreme build to get excess of 450 strength? O_o
486 Strength 3Vit base Seeker.
535 Dex 3Vit base Archer
Before shards refines etc. The stat difference is a marginal 49 stat points. Sure thats an extra 2% crit and say about....500~700 pattack before refines. That really isnt that much. The only REAL perk going for the archer is the high base weapon damage which is what I stated. There is no "damage multiplier advantage" for the archer. Purely weapon damage.[SIGPIC]http://i48.tinypic.com/2r61kw3.jpg[/SIGPIC]
Ty Fon for the Siggy
The rare and exotic Sage Archer of HT. b:cute0 -
KawaiiJen - Heavens Tear wrote: »I would love to see a plausible 600 dex without 2nd-3rd cast r9 and crazy ring engravements. (I can't even get 540.)
Seekers don't need extreme build to get excess of 450 strength? O_o
486 Strength 3Vit base Seeker.
535 Dex 3Vit base Archer
Before shards refines etc. The stat difference is a marginal 49 stat points. Sure thats an extra 2% crit and say about....500~700 pattack before refines. That really isnt that much. The only REAL perk going for the archer is the high base weapon damage which is what I stated. There is no "damage multiplier advantage" for the archer. Purely weapon damage.
http://www.pwcalc.com/5da8606b4d873b6a
Just need a bazillion OHT Mats0 -
KawaiiJen - Heavens Tear wrote: »I think Seekers can get 450 str. So I don't think the multiplier is a factor.
Of course not. To make matters worse, most Seeker weapons are single blades. BM axes actually have a pretty decent spike. I guess PW should at least have made Seeker rank weapons dual blades.Elena Costel: I wash my hands of this affair.
Legerity: *drags you back* *stains your hands with said affair*
Elena Costel: Noooo... I don't want to have a dirty affair with Lady Legerity...
Qui: b:dirty0 -
XxZavxX - Raging Tide wrote: »
Lol -_-Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »Of course not. To make matters worse, most Seeker weapons are single blades. BM axes actually have a pretty decent spike. I guess PW should at least have made Seeker rank weapons dual blades.
Well yes because technically seekers use "claymores". Which are giant 2handed swords. In this case for pwi is a single blade/sword. However it also gives them the option to use dual swords. (Which is mind boggling to me why a single sword has a higher APS then 2 single swords... -_-)[SIGPIC]http://i48.tinypic.com/2r61kw3.jpg[/SIGPIC]
Ty Fon for the Siggy
The rare and exotic Sage Archer of HT. b:cute0 -
KawaiiJen - Heavens Tear wrote: »(Which is mind boggling to me why a single sword has a higher APS then 2 single swords... -_-)
Because in video game land you're not supposed to use both swords! =O0 -
I think he was referring more to a full R8 recast armor set and R9 bow+belt since they require almost no STR.
http://www.pwcalc.com/005ab078cdea8ac1
http://pwcalc.com/c68c9ac188c485a2[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
KawaiiJen - Heavens Tear wrote: »(Which is mind boggling to me why a single sword has a higher APS then 2 single swords... -_-)
You use the force of both hands to lift only one item , so you can swing it faster.
Using both your hands to use 2 equal heavy items takes more energy , and it is more complicated for your mind to react.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
<--- MALE Veno ..... Moved to G W 2 or maybe not completely , don't know ...... PW addiction
{That TT xbow chain is one that describes someone's bowel movements after having too much spicy food. A loud **** (Thundercrack), then a burning sensation (Flash Fire), followed by an explosion of multi-colored poo-confetti (Blinding Radiance). Excellent...} By Quilue0 -
Phoenix_Eye - Heavens Tear wrote: »You use the force of both hands to lift only one item , so you can swing it faster.
Using both your hands to use 2 equal heavy items takes more energy , and it is more complicated for your mind to react.
Tell that to Jedi >_>[SIGPIC]http://i48.tinypic.com/2r61kw3.jpg[/SIGPIC]
Ty Fon for the Siggy
The rare and exotic Sage Archer of HT. b:cute0 -
who da **** cares. Seekers arent a DD class[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] for GD Onion 2012 b:victory0
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unceuncerave wrote: »who da **** cares. Seekers arent a DD class
oh Really ??? and what is it bright-brain.
@KawaiiJen : What can i say , im not a Star Wars fan[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
<--- MALE Veno ..... Moved to G W 2 or maybe not completely , don't know ...... PW addiction
{That TT xbow chain is one that describes someone's bowel movements after having too much spicy food. A loud **** (Thundercrack), then a burning sensation (Flash Fire), followed by an explosion of multi-colored poo-confetti (Blinding Radiance). Excellent...} By Quilue0 -
Phoenix_Eye - Heavens Tear wrote: »
Support class just like a BM. Not a real DD though they pretend to be.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] for GD Onion 2012 b:victory0 -
Phoenix_Eye - Heavens Tear wrote: »You use the force of both hands to lift only one item , so you can swing it faster.
Using both your hands to use 2 equal heavy items takes more energy , and it is more complicated for your mind to react.
you will be swing each individual sword slower if you are using 2 swords, but the total attack speed will be faster. this is pretty easy to test if you have two arms.
the only reason you can swing a 2 handed sword faster is that you are swinging in both directions using each arm to alternatively push then pull. using both arms on a single weapon counters some of the inertia generated by the swing. generally 2-handed weapons are heavier than 1 handed weapons though, so there is a lot more inertia to compensate for.unceuncerave wrote: »Support class just like a BM. Not a real DD though they pretend to be.
one who deals damage is a damage dealer.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
unceuncerave wrote: »Support class just like a BM. Not a real DD though they pretend to be.
You don't support by having 3 skill dmg amplifiers.
If you don't know what you are talking about , better shut it and leave. The one who looks ridiculous is you[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
<--- MALE Veno ..... Moved to G W 2 or maybe not completely , don't know ...... PW addiction
{That TT xbow chain is one that describes someone's bowel movements after having too much spicy food. A loud **** (Thundercrack), then a burning sensation (Flash Fire), followed by an explosion of multi-colored poo-confetti (Blinding Radiance). Excellent...} By Quilue0 -
Phoenix_Eye - Heavens Tear wrote: »You don't support by having 3 skill dmg amplifiers.
If you don't know what you are talking about , better shut it and leave. The one who looks ridiculous is you
Rofl... Their purpose IS to amplify damage for the REAL DD's to hit harder. In TW the BM is to run in Stun And HF so the Real DDs which are archers and wizards can roll everyone. If you think they are DD's you're playing the wrong ****ing game.
PS Seekers "Skill Amps" are PVE and the stances amps are weak a ****.. Derp[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] for GD Onion 2012 b:victory0 -
unceuncerave wrote: »Rofl... Their purpose IS to amplify damage for the REAL DD's to hit harder. In TW the BM is to run in Stun And HF so the Real DDs which are archers and wizards can roll everyone. If you think they are DD's you're playing the wrong ****ing game.
PS Seekers "Skill Amps" are PVE and the stances amps are weak a ****.. Derp
Says the man who doesnt know what a buffed Gemini Slash can do.
You are an idiot , why dont you try to be proud of it ???[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
<--- MALE Veno ..... Moved to G W 2 or maybe not completely , don't know ...... PW addiction
{That TT xbow chain is one that describes someone's bowel movements after having too much spicy food. A loud **** (Thundercrack), then a burning sensation (Flash Fire), followed by an explosion of multi-colored poo-confetti (Blinding Radiance). Excellent...} By Quilue0 -
Phoenix_Eye - Heavens Tear wrote: »Says the man who doesnt know what a buffed Gemini Slash can do.
You are an idiot , why dont you try to be proud of it ???
Uh see I've done tons of 1v1s with a r9 seeker. Their "buffed" zerk crit gemini BARELY hits me 14k UNBUFFED. Holy **** that's sooo much.... if that's a DD damage then you've obviously never seen a BM use a drake bash zerk crit.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] for GD Onion 2012 b:victory0 -
popcorn anyone?0
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SpazzMcAps - Harshlands wrote: »popcorn anyone?
Is that popcorn refined and socketed Immaculate tasting butter?[SIGPIC]http://i48.tinypic.com/2r61kw3.jpg[/SIGPIC]
Ty Fon for the Siggy
The rare and exotic Sage Archer of HT. b:cute0 -
Phoenix_Eye - Heavens Tear wrote: »Says the man who doesnt know what a buffed Gemini Slash can do.
You are an idiot , why dont you try to be proud of it ???
Unce is a well respected member of this community and its contributions are invaluable. How dare you talk to unce like that!0
![http://i48.tinypic.com/2r61kw3.jpg[/SIGPIC]](http://i48.tinypic.com/2r61kw3.jpg[/SIGPIC]){kind=link}
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