R9 or nirvana

_Mg_Zr - Heavens Tear

So i was wondering which weapon would do more damage the r9 wep or second stage nirvana with GoF and -0.05 int x2 from my personal experience of fighting against both these weapons i think that the nirvana does more damage but itd be nice if some one who is good with numbers and knows the formulas would be able to work out which does more dd
On another note what theoretically is the best weapon for sins

Hellzbells - Harshlands

Inb4ponies
And there are tons of threads on this
It boils down to r9 is more expensive but g15 can be more expensive to get good adds and one set of adds on g15 will out damage r9

Salari - Raging Tide

To beat R9 dps wise you need Patt +130 int and GoF with full int gear but the increase is not that much. It took 23 reroll's to get SS int and patt +106 on my DDT's and I stopped there. I was hoping for att lvl +20 and int but i am not complaining. Note: not once did i get GoF on any reroll. A fellow guildie got SS and int on the first or second reroll so you could reroll forever or get decient to great stats and stick with it. I rerolled 100 times on a alt server and not once did i get int on lunars. getting 2x int helps sages more than demons i think unless you want to switch out orns for cube/warsong for better def and a hp boost

Olbaze - Sanctuary

Silly people.

GoF with -0.05 interval and any third mod beats R9 for DPS for Demons. Though it needs to be GoF, as with SS it loses to R9.

For Sages, you get better DPS with 2x -0.05 interval and SS, GoF, +4% Crit or +20 Attack Levels.

However, none of these weapons come even close to the potential DPH of R9.

The whole thing about G15 requiring GoF, -0.05 interval and +130 patk comes from someone who just picked those as the "best" mods for G15 and did not bother to test whether they could reduce the requirements. Oh and I did do those numbers somewhere.

As for the "best" weapon in theory only, I'd put my money on recast R9, followed closely by recast R8, then G15 Nirvana, then regular R9. Though if we add the nigh-impossible recast R8 pieces with -interval, then regular R9 is superior to G15 Nirvana and recast R8.

Now just to for credibility, there's some PWCalcs with the appropriate DPS numbers:
4 APS R9: 314,734
5 APS G15: 320,228
5 APS Recast R8: 331,094
4 APS Recast R9: 334,012
5 APS R9: 373,374
5 APS Recast R9: 396,774

_Mg_Zr - Heavens Tear

Salari - Raging Tide wrote: »

To beat R9 dps wise you need Patt +130 int and GoF with full int gear but the increase is not that much. It took 23 reroll's to get SS int and patt +106 on my DDT's and I stopped there. I was hoping for att lvl +20 and int but i am not complaining. Note: not once did i get GoF on any reroll. A fellow guildie got SS and int on the first or second reroll so you could reroll forever or get decient to great stats and stick with it. I rerolled 100 times on a alt server and not once did i get int on lunars. getting 2x int helps sages more than demons i think unless you want to switch out orns for cube/warsong for better def and a hp boost

I have seen numerous sins with SS +phys attack and +2 attack lvl and only one with -0.05 x2 and GoF (honestly id hate to pay for those re rolls)
Thanks everyone for the info.

_Skai_ - Raging Tide

Olbaze will need to calculate r9r2 once it comes out tomorrow. In no doubt will that weapon be the highest DPSing weapon in the game.

Typhyse - Sanctuary

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Euthymius - Heavens Tear

Typhyse - Sanctuary wrote: »

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Typhyse - Sanctuary

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SpazzMcAps - Harshlands

Typhyse - Sanctuary wrote: »

...jooooiiiiin usssssss...

welcome to the hivemind

_Mg_Zr - Heavens Tear

_Skai_ - Raging Tide wrote: »

Olbaze will need to calculate r9r2 once it comes out tomorrow. In no doubt will that weapon be the highest DPSing weapon in the game.

Yeah no doubt but i cant wait to see how the new nirvana stacks up against r9

Olbaze - Sanctuary

_Skai_ - Raging Tide wrote: »

Olbaze will need to calculate r9r2 once it comes out tomorrow. In no doubt will that weapon be the highest DPSing weapon in the game.

Actually, the mods are right here.

And with that, we get the following numbers:
4 APS 2nd Recast R9: 417,045 dps
5 Aps 2nd Recast R9: 494,483 dps

Notes:
The R9 ring has +9% crit because the recast R9 weapon doesn't have +crit%. The crit itself is a mod on the 2nd recast at 3~6%.
The 65 Attack Levels comes from the 2nd recast having +10~25 Attack Levels (at least to my understanding, Google Translate disagrees)
The +20 Dexterity, again, comes from the 2nd recast having +9~20 Dexterity
The 2nd Recast refines identical to the recast R9
I altered the base damage of the recast R9 to match that of 2nd Recast

Geshwur - Raging Tide

Well, with GoF and 2x -int you'll do more damage (in theory) AND you can do more things with your gear and still be 5APS...

I'm doing G16 hat and boots for the 700HP bonus, with G15 bracers and pants for +5 attack levels (using G13 though, not G15 daggers... +G15/16 have better refine rates than TT99, so more HP and I like the def bonuses on G15... I'll drop from 4base to 3.33, while maintaining 5 sparked, and will be keeping 4base gear for my sage sin ofc. Overall it's going to be expensive, but IMO will be a great set of gear, and well worth it, despite restricting what I can do with daggers (for a reasonable price)

Can't do stuff like that with R9...

Geshwur - Raging Tide

Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »

Actually, the mods are right here.

And with that, we get the following numbers:
4 APS 2nd Recast R9: 417,045 dps
5 Aps 2nd Recast R9: 494,483 dps

Notes:
The R9 ring has +9% crit because the recast R9 weapon doesn't have +crit%. The crit itself is a mod on the 2nd recast at 3~6%.
The 65 Attack Levels comes from the 2nd recast having +10~25 Attack Levels (at least to my understanding, Google Translate disagrees)
The +20 Dexterity, again, comes from the 2nd recast having +9~20 Dexterity
The 2nd Recast refines identical to the recast R9
I altered the base damage of the recast R9 to match that of 2nd Recast

Just thought to mention, if you're being purely optimistic on the 5APS R9^2 build This would be a better overall build, replaced G15 Lunar cast hat with the TT one, and added TT forge G15 bracers instead of TT99, more refines, better adds, and 5 attack levels... I would use it for calculations instead IMO

Olbaze - Sanctuary

Geshwur - Raging Tide wrote: »

Just thought to mention, if you're being purely optimistic on the 5APS R9^2 build This would be a better overall build, replaced G15 Lunar cast hat with the TT one, and added TT forge G15 bracers instead of TT99, more refines, better adds, and 5 attack levels... I would use it for calculations instead IMO

I was being deliberately minimalist. Since the point was to show how superior recast R9 is, the obvious choice is to pick the worst possible option. After all, if the worst option is equal or better, then obviously it's a vastly superior choice. On that trail, showing just how far recast R9 can go in comparison to regular R9 or such would be a boring, rather irrelevant task.

_Skai_ - Raging Tide

Geshwur - Raging Tide wrote: »

Well, with GoF and 2x -int you'll do more damage (in theory) AND you can do more things with your gear and still be 5APS...

I'm doing G16 hat and boots for the 700HP bonus, with G15 bracers and pants for +5 attack levels (using G13 though, not G15 daggers... +G15/16 have better refine rates than TT99, so more HP and I like the def bonuses on G15... I'll drop from 4base to 3.33, while maintaining 5 sparked, and will be keeping 4base gear for my sage sin ofc. Overall it's going to be expensive, but IMO will be a great set of gear, and well worth it, despite restricting what I can do with daggers (for a reasonable price)

Can't do stuff like that with R9...

That's actually a really good build to keep 5aps, as it focuses more on defense than offense, as most 5apsers try to go for 5aps first before trying to get defenses up. Good luck with that Gesh.

It's like how I'm trying to get -int on my r8r boots so that I can replace my wrists and boots for good, while gaining massive defenses.

Geshwur - Raging Tide

_Skai_ - Raging Tide wrote: »

That's actually a really good build to keep 5aps, as it focuses more on defense than offense, as most 5apsers try to go for 5aps first before trying to get defenses up. Good luck with that Gesh.

It's like how I'm trying to get -int on my r8r boots so that I can replace my wrists and boots for good, while gaining massive defenses.

R8R is also great for R9, get R8R boots pants and chest with -int stuff for 4/5APS and NV bracers.

But yeah, with this new update, it really showed me how weak my defenses and HP are, which I've known I've needed to improve for a while, got my G16 hat already, need the mold for boots atm, but with G13 my DPS is still good, and when I +12 them my DPS will be better, and I'll have better defense and HP than most G15/R9 sins (assuming equal refines) because of the flexibility I get from the .1 -int on G13. The goal atm is just getting the gear though, +10 and such on all of it is a LONG way off... Probably gonna sit at 5-7 on all of it for a while, but another thing I've noticed is a LOT of sins focus ONLY on refining gear and neglect their orns... Back when I had my G15 zerk dags I one-shotted a +10 sin who neglected to refine his ornaments past 5 x.x Then I rofl'd xD

_Skai_ - Raging Tide

Thing is though, if/once I do get -int on my boots and at least 1 -int on my chest, that's enough to maintain my 4aps as r9, but also get massive defenses and +1k hp as a r8r set bonus.

It just lies in the rerolls x.x

Geshwur - Raging Tide

_Skai_ - Raging Tide wrote: »

Thing is though, if/once I do get -int on my boots and at least 1 -int on my chest, that's enough to maintain my 4aps as r9, but also get massive defenses and +1k hp as a r8r set bonus.

It just lies in the rerolls x.x

After than many re-rolls might as well go for pants for 5APS... After all, ads there don't matter xD AND G15 bracers too.

_Skai_ - Raging Tide

I already got r8r top/bottom/boots. Just gotta get them to +10 before I use them in PvP, and then get -int on chest/boots to use them for PvE

Geshwur - Raging Tide

_Skai_ - Raging Tide wrote: »

I already got r8r top/bottom/boots. Just gotta get them to +10 before I use them in PvP, and then get -int on chest/boots to use them for PvE

Nice nice.

Having a hard time deciding if I want 2x right now. On one hand, I could farm my G15 stuff, on the other, could be pretty bad for the economy... x.x