95 morai's sword better than R8?

Fail_BM - Raging Tide

So, 2 days ago I was doing BH delta wave 2 with another seeker (He was using R8 sword +5 2 immaculate garnets). During every sub wave I did notice I was the one holding aggro, but I was using morai's 95 sword (+4 with flawless garnet).

We started to vortex at same time and everything, but it's hard to believe a free weapon is stronger than something which cost ~70 dollars.

Does anyone have an idea of what did happen?

(Btw, I have 50 slaying lvls)

Sagek - Sanctuary

Gah, does R8 sword really cost $70?

Fail_BM - Raging Tide

Sagek - Sanctuary wrote: »

Gah, does R8 sword really cost $70?

200,000 rep does if you buy everything o.o

CapnK - Sanctuary

There are other factors to consider like the rest of your gear, quality of the player, etc. But yes, Morai gear is very, very good... against mobs. The tradeoff is that the R8 weapon can be used in pvp and tw also.

_Skai_ - Raging Tide

What CapnK said, only there really isn't much else to say about quality of the player when both are using the same skill at the same time.

Just wait until you get the g15 version at 5k prestige in one of the orders (can't remember off the top of my head). It's supposed to be on par with R9 in terms of PvE damage (minus the GoF on weapons that have it).

Jesusisback - Raging Tide

My 95 Morai daggers can't even compare to the damage my r8 does.

Even at equal refines they wouldn't.

Maybe that seeker never leveled vortex to 10. (Or maybe yours is 11)

Maybe that person was a high vit build seeker.

Etc etc etc....point is G12 Morai wep can't out DD r8 with normal circumstances.

PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver

well there are a lot of unknown factors:

1)build: perhaps he was a vit or dex build
2)lvl of vortex
3)gear sharding (dots?)
4)rings
5)gear (more str/attack stats, attack levels)
6)genie skills (you could have used frenzy before vortexing (i doubt that's the case in this scenario))

MiniST - Sanctuary

_Skai_ - Raging Tide wrote: »

What CapnK said, only there really isn't much else to say about quality of the player when both are using the same skill at the same time.

Just wait until you get the g15 version at 5k prestige in one of the orders (can't remember off the top of my head). It's supposed to be on par with R9 in terms of PvE damage (minus the GoF on weapons that have it).

the g15 weapon are only on par with r9 without any of the r9 set bonus. However, this is excluding the daggers which is far below r9 or g15 in terms of damage.

_Skai_ - Raging Tide

MiniST - Sanctuary wrote: »

the g15 weapon are only on par with r9 without any of the r9 set bonus. However, this is excluding the daggers which is far below r9 or g15 in terms of damage.

That's a shame.

Also forgot to think about the level of vortex.

PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver

MiniST - Sanctuary wrote: »

the g15 weapon are only on par with r9 without any of the r9 set bonus. However, the is excluding the daggers which is far below r9 or g15 in terms of damage.

according to my calculations, at +10, 2x garnet gems, (base 475 dex, 35% crit, 35 attack levels, 4aps/5aps with g13/g15 with int):

r8: 175k/s
g13: 187k/s
g15 no stats: 160k/s
g15 -int, gof, +130 attack: 225k/s
r9: 244k/s
g15 morai no stats: 194k/s
g15 morai 4x+130 attack (ideal stats, keep dreaming but it's more probable to get 2 SoT from 2 packs): 225k/s
g15 morai 4x+18dex (if it's attack lvl or +attack it's even better; reroll cost ~125m): 208k/s

while r9 and g15 with good stats have indeed better dps, I wouldnt say that the morai is far bellow, especially considering the significant less cost (which might allow you to +11). also note that the gap between r9/morai will become smaller as you add DoTs

MiniST - Sanctuary

PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver wrote: »

according to my calculations, at +10, 2x garnet gems, (base 475 dex, 35% crit, 35 attack levels, 4aps/5aps with g13/g15 with int):

r8: 175k/s
g13: 187k/s
g15 no stats: 160k/s
g15 -int, gof, +130 attack: 225k/s
r9: 244k/s
g15 morai no stats: 194k/s
g15 morai 4x+130 attack (ideal stats, keep dreaming but it's more probable to get 2 SoT from 2 packs): 225k/s
g15 morai 4x+18dex (if it's attack lvl or +attack it's even better; reroll cost ~125m): 208k/s

while r9 and g15 with good stats have indeed better dps, I wouldnt say that the morai is far bellow, especially considering the significant less cost (which might allow you to +11). also note that the gap between r9/morai will become smaller as you add DoTs

first of all, u can't have 4x+130 atk. The most you can get is 3x+130 max attack, which is 0.0001% chance and with 45 emblem per roll and 240 emblems u can get in a week, it will take on average 187500 weeks. The 3x dex is more realistic as I've gotten it on my morai g15 bow reroll (I rerolled again after cause it was only 1 sockets >.<), but it will take an average of 187.5 weeks.

John_Smith - Harshlands

Gotta remember that the Slaying levels affect the skill "number" which makes up for a lot of damage dependant on the spell / skill. If you have a spell hitting for 10k base and +5k numbered damage, a morai wep is gonna do something like 7k base + 7.4k numbered damage.

If you want proof, get a wizard to Emberstorm chickens with a PvE wep and with an R8 wep. Only the PvE wep will increase the damage. (With a slight HP boost too iirc, but you'll see the considerable difference is far more than the 200hp or w/e it would grant)

This is the reason the Morai PvE daggers seem to suck by the way, noone uses skills b:chuckle Try hitting with Slipstream etc with both and you'll find them considerably closer.

PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver

MiniST - Sanctuary wrote: »

first of all, u can't have 4x+130 atk. The most you can get is 3x+130 max attack, which is 0.0001% chance and with 45 emblem per roll and 240 emblems u can get in a week, it will take on average 187500 weeks. The 3x dex is more realistic as I've gotten it on my morai g15 bow reroll (I rerolled again after cause it was only 1 sockets >.<), but it will take an average of 187.5 weeks.

o.o isnt it 4 addons plus one unique? i guess the unique is considered one of the regulars

well with 3x dex it's 204k/s

well, when you get the weapon you should have left ~1600inf
and huum we dont need exactly 3xdex; attack lvls, +attack, str or even crit should work
so 34% are good stats -> 0.039% which gives ~75% chance to get it with the inf you have left after you get the weapon. hum hum now i'm not sure if i should get it xD

John_Smith - Harshlands wrote: »

Gotta remember that the Slaying levels affect the skill "number" which makes up for a lot of damage dependant on the spell / skill. If you have a spell hitting for 10k base and +5k numbered damage, a morai wep is gonna do something like 7k base + 7.4k numbered damage.

If you want proof, get a wizard to Emberstorm chickens with a PvE wep and with an R8 wep. Only the PvE wep will increase the damage. (With a slight HP boost too iirc, but you'll see the considerable difference is far more than the 200hp or w/e it would grant)

This is the reason the Morai PvE daggers seem to suck by the way, noone uses skills b:chuckle Try hitting with Slipstream etc with both and you'll find them considerably closer.

are you saying that slaying levels dont affect attacks from regular hits? that's wrong (tested g13 morai in 1k puppet)

MiniST - Sanctuary

btw 60 slaying lvls = 50% more damage not 60%

PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver

MiniST - Sanctuary wrote: »

btw 60 slaying lvls = 50% more damage not 60%

(well, depends on target lvl but yeah, it's ~50%)

MiniST - Sanctuary

I think you are a little off with your math. (armor is all the same for both) 2 garnets +10
5.0 g15 sac wpn(1.15x damage modifier) on a 103 sin with pangu with minimal str and max dex give 202.118k dps (38% crit, 37 atk lvls)
4.0 g15 morai with 3x dex +19 on same sin give 182.108k dps.(41% crit, 37 atk lvls)

Since the slaying lvl gets better with higher refines. I'm gonna compare 4.0 g15 morai with 3x 130 max atk +12 with 2 drakeflame with 5.0 g15 vana sac wpn(not gof and the other stat not mattering) with 2 drakeflames +12. The sin is upgraded to lvl 105 with LU&D and full DOT and +11 dex on both rings.

The g15 vana wpn give dps of 297.105k.
The g15 morai wpn gives dps of 285.140k.

Regenbogen - Lost City

you probably had a jones blessing...

looking at the wiki slaying lv do multiply with atk lv
so with just jones its like 50%*1.3=66,3%
just r9 weapon and jones 60atk lv=60%
full r9 and jones 90atk lv=90%

also morai has way lower base atk than other gear...

PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver

MiniST - Sanctuary wrote: »

I think you are a little off with your math. (armor is all the same for both) 2 garnets +10
5.0 g15 sac wpn(1.15x damage modifier) on a 103 sin with pangu with minimal str and max dex give 202.118k dps (38% crit, 37 atk lvls)
4.0 g15 morai with 3x dex +19 on same sin give 182.108k dps.(41% crit, 37 atk lvls)

Since the slaying lvl gets better with higher refines. I'm gonna compare 4.0 g15 morai with 3x 130 max atk +12 with 2 drakeflame with 5.0 g15 vana sac wpn(not gof and the other stat not mattering) with 2 drakeflames +12. The sin is upgraded to lvl 105 with LU&D and full DOT and +11 dex on both rings.

The g15 vana wpn give dps of 297.105k.
The g15 morai wpn gives dps of 285.140k.

well, here are my calculations: https://public.sheet.zoho.com/public/pwigenie/sin-weapons
my base sin was 101 and with a bit less dex i think

MiniST - Sanctuary

PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver wrote: »

well, here are my calculations: https://public.sheet.zoho.com/public/pwigenie/sin-weapons
my base sin was 101 and with a bit less dex i think

I actually used pwi calculator and put in all the armor and stuff and simulated the morai wpn off of some other wpn.(min+max of that wpn =min+max of morai wpn)

Nymfysubstaz - Dreamweaver

It's been said before, and I would like to remind all that the Morai weapons have a slaying level that at least without a doubt on wizzy's more than makes up for the lower mag attack.

Without a doubt on my +6 Morai with flawless saphire weapon I hit 1500- 3200 more damage per hit than my Fate Denial:Godspeed +5 with 2 perfect saf's in them. Tested this again, again and again. I'm just saying.

SpazzMcAps - Harshlands

fail bm b:scorn

MiniST - Sanctuary

Nymfysubstaz - Dreamweaver wrote: »

It's been said before, and I would like to remind all that the Morai weapons have a slaying level that at least without a doubt on wizzy's more than makes up for the lower mag attack.

Without a doubt on my +6 Morai with flawless saphire weapon I hit 1500- 3200 more damage per hit than my Fate Denial:Godspeed +5 with 2 perfect saf's in them. Tested this again, again and again. I'm just saying.

yeah, of course, the base damage of morai magic wpns is same as TT99.

Fail_BM - Raging Tide

SpazzMcAps - Harshlands wrote: »

fail bm b:scorn

b:byeb:chuckle

CapnK - Sanctuary

PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver wrote: »

(well, depends on target lvl but yeah, it's ~50%)

Actually Slaying levels are independent of mob level. It's just slaying x 3 divided by slaying + 300 and that's your bonus to damage.

Warding levels are affected by mob level though.

John_Smith - Harshlands

PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver wrote: »

are you saying that slaying levels dont affect attacks from regular hits? that's wrong (tested g13 morai in 1k puppet)

No, I'm saying if more of the attacks power comes from numbers than it does Base, the Morai weapon will easily hit as hard, if not harder. Auto attacks are purely base, so +50% dmg there but on a skill you get +50% to the lower base damage and then +50% on the skill damage.

On a skill that results in high skill damage, the Slaying advantage also applies to the numbers, whereas with an R8 you simply get higher Base + Weapon% multipliers.

With skills like Demon Mountains Sieze + Blade Tempest which both have skill damage of 12k or so my Morai Weapon can at times hit a little harder harder than my R8 weapon does, and it absolutely slaughters my Neon Purgatory. When we get down to Demon Dragons Breath the difference between the R8 weapon and the Morai one is quite large. It's been a while so I can't give you any examples, but I do recall it hitting a **** tonne harder.

(Purg is +5 / 1 Saph gem, R8 is +3 2xG8 Saphs, Morai is +3 1G9 Saph)

"The damage is equal
to base damage plus 100% of weapon damage plus 8300." <-- Seeker AoE. That flat out gets pushed to 12450 skill damage (******n that's high, **** you Seekers) as well as the lower Base damage being worth about 50% more in its own right. This is what I meant, Morai weapons on skill damage is a recipe for success. On auto attacks it tends to make things "about even"

PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver

@CapnK hum true, my fault

John_Smith - Harshlands wrote: »

No, I'm saying if more of the attacks power comes from numbers than it does Base, the Morai weapon will easily hit as hard, if not harder. Auto attacks are purely base, so +50% dmg there but on a skill you get +50% to the lower base damage and then +50% on the skill damage.

On a skill that results in high skill damage, the Slaying advantage also applies to the numbers, whereas with an R8 you simply get higher Base + Weapon% multipliers.

With skills like Demon Mountains Sieze + Blade Tempest which both have skill damage of 12k or so my Morai Weapon can at times hit a little harder harder than my R8 weapon does, and it absolutely slaughters my Neon Purgatory. When we get down to Demon Dragons Breath the difference between the R8 weapon and the Morai one is quite large. It's been a while so I can't give you any examples, but I do recall it hitting a **** tonne harder.

(Purg is +5 / 1 Saph gem, R8 is +3 2xG8 Saphs, Morai is +3 1G9 Saph)

"The damage is equal
to base damage plus 100% of weapon damage plus 8300." <-- Seeker AoE. That flat out gets pushed to 12450 skill damage (******n that's high, **** you Seekers) as well as the lower Base damage being worth about 50% more in its own right. This is what I meant, Morai weapons on skill damage is a recipe for success. On auto attacks it tends to make things "about even"

oh i misunderstood you then. yeah, you are right!

Magnanimous_ - Heavens Tear

For the people who fancy numbers:

(1) Average base weapon damage (excluding strength modifier, slaying level):

(i) G12 Morai Claymore
stats: 397-708 attack
additional stats: +82 attack
1 flawless garnet: +25 attack
refine +4: +94 attack
Ring damage: +200 attack (assumption)
[Average base weapon attack: 935.5 attack]

(ii) R8 sword
stats: 853-1355 attack
additional stats: +130 maximum attack
2 immac garnet: +64
refine +5: +148
Ring damage: +200 attack (assumption)
[Average base weapon attack: 1597 attack]

(2)Average base physical attack (including strength modifier, excluding slaying lvl):

(i) G12 Morai Claymore
Assuming a minimal strength of 250: attack modifier is 250/150= 1.666
Assuming sage mastery: attack modifier is 0.9
Average base physical attack = 935.5*(1+1.666+0.9) = 3336.6

(ii) R8 Sword
Assuming a minimal strength of 250:
Additional Strength stat: +14 strength
Strength attack modifier: 264/150 = 1.76
Assuming sage mastery: attack modifier 0.9
Average base physical attack = 1597*(1+1.76+0.9)= 5845

(3) Vortex Damage (lvl10-assumptions)(excluding slaying lvl):
The damage is equal to base damage plus 100% of weapon damage plus 7842.8.

(i) G12 Morai Claymore:
Vortex damage: 3336.6 + 935.5 + 7842.8 = 12114.9

(ii) R8 Sword:
Vortex damage: 5845 + 1597 + 7842.8 = 15284.8

(4) Vortex Damage on Mobs (including slaying lvl):

(i)G12 Morai Claymore:
45 Slaying lvl gives 39% more damage in pve
Vortex Damage on mobs: 12114.9*1.39= 16839.7 <---

(ii) R8 Sword:
Vortex damage on mobs: 15284.8 <---

(5) So, in summary, G12 Morai Claymore refined+4 with 1 flawless garnet will outdamage R8 refine+5 with 2 immac garnet by roughy 10% more damage in vortex (pve)

Assumptions: both sage sword mastery, both lvl10 vortex, same ring(s), same blessings (jones or o'malley), same strength, etc...
Sources: pwi wiki - damage calculation page, ecatomb.

Nymfysubstaz - Dreamweaver

MiniST - Sanctuary wrote: »

yeah, of course, the base damage of morai magic wpns is same as TT99.

Yes Ma'am, I agree but you would be surprised at how often if I pm someone with Morai weapon verses my TT99 weapon ...they want me with my TT99 weapon but laugh at me if I post to Morai weapon for Niv Caster... b:shockedb:chuckle

Iluvtokillu - Raging Tide

Well I got a question for you. How did you get the morai sword cause every time I ask people they don't know how to get it I need answers please

SweetieBot - Lothranis

Iluvtokillu - Raging Tide wrote: »

Well I got a question for you. How did you get the morai sword cause every time I ask people they don't know how to get it I need answers please

NECROOO!!!!!!!

Iluvtokillu - Raging Tide replied to a message that was 1 year 7 months 26 days 13 hours old.

Mayfly - Dreamweaver

Iluvtokillu - Raging Tide wrote: »

Well I got a question for you. How did you get the morai sword cause every time I ask people they don't know how to get it I need answers please

For the 101 Morai weapons, you need to join the appropriate order in Morai (which of the three varies with weapon), and do enough dailies to get the prestige and influence required. (There is also a coin cost.)

The 95 Morai weapon is a quest reward for the introductory quests in Morai. 100 Morai gear comes for Expanded Universe, which will once again (actually, practically for the first time) be run regularly now that it is a BH100 instance.

Morai gear is all bound, so you'll have to earn it yourself, not buy it from other players.