demon vs sage

Venomthekill - Heavens Tear

what are most ppl rolling? lets say with full r9 and a super high soulforce.

sry in advanced, i tried looking in forums bc im sure there are a ton of postings but the search on this website isnt great lol

Im just trying to understand pys better. I am jus wondering the more popular choice and why????

Longknife - Harshlands

Venomthekill - Heavens Tear wrote: »

what are most ppl rolling? lets say with full r9 and a super high soulforce.

sry in advanced, i tried looking in forums bc im sure there are a ton of postings but the search on this website isnt great lol

Im just trying to understand pys better. I am jus wondering the more popular choice and why????

Go demon so you can be more like Edward Cullen and suck hard.

PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver

Longknife - Harshlands wrote: »

Go demon so you can be more like Edward Cullen and suck hard.

AHHAHAHHAHHAb:laughb:cryb:laugh

well in that case she should also shard garnet-citrine-sapphire-amber
(have seen thatb:shocked)

Ivienn - Lost City

My choice is Sage cause I like Sage skills better, but it's the best to look on your own and see what fits you playing style better.

http://www.ecatomb.net/skillpwi.php

Here you can compare all skills from lvl 1 to Sage/Demon.

I hope this helps.

Venomthekill - Heavens Tear

wow. I was really hoping i wouldnt get flamed or told to look up @ ecatombs lol.

I just wanted some ppl rolling pys to say why they went demon or sage. Just wanted to know what skills seemed better. I just wanted to know which way most psy go. Usually there is a more popular way to go and why...

PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver

Venomthekill - Heavens Tear wrote: »

wow. I was really hoping i wouldnt get flamed or told to look up @ ecatombs lol.

I just wanted some ppl rolling pys to say why they went demon or sage. Just wanted to know what skills seemed better. I just wanted to know which way most psy go. Usually there is a more popular way to go and why...

well, longknife's answer kinda says it in a rather novel way; most people go sage. those that dont go are crit... erm lets say obsessed people that want tide spirit and landslide and probably wish for a sandburst blast+stone smasher combo. or idiots that think that -chan is useful on psys (demon spark or even bigger idiots (white voodoo)).

sage on the other hand has purifying bubble (but only pve use is (sometimes) 4th boss in caster nirvy), sov that could actually be used on mana-squishies (pve-wise is kinda useless, especially with seekers tanking delta), better voodoos,

Euzebe - Sanctuary

Granted that 3% chan increase is stupid but the chan increase from demon spark is actually noticeable, not that either is a good enough reason to choose demon.

Demon gives you that burst damage/ crit that you need to drop high hp targets sometimes. That aside, better crowd control with glacial and vector.

bezmor

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FEH9csVFZoI

Thats a little out dated vid but bottum line Sage is super high defense while demon is built to kill. End game gear on a demon psy would have kill power much higher than sages cause they will crit like an archer, but lose def lvls, seal length, will duration etc.
Depends on if you wanna be a balanced DD with defense or pure DD
Thats my opinion anyway hope it helps

Euzebe - Sanctuary

Agreed for the most part, but sages only have more def lvl in white. A demon has more def lvls than a sage while in black voodoo

Kerona - Sanctuary

they will crit like an archer

If you use Tide Spirit, a two spark skill. Demon Landslide has the drawbacks that it's only 30% chance to proc, only lasts 4 seconds, and you must be at 10 meter or less (biggest drawback imo) for it to even be used.

Reportedly the debuff on Demon Sandburst Blast isn't even noticable.

Sage is more defensible due to longer Psy Will, as well as another purify, slight heal on Retal cast, longer soul of stun at high soulforce values, longer soulburn (when used as a deterrant in this example), and greater chi production capabilities that enable it to use the spark requiring defensive skills.

In practice, most Demon psy I've observed run around until they get a proc or enough chi for tide spirit (after somehow making it so their opponent who isn't an idiot can't just run when they see tide spirit....) and hope for a crit.

Conversely, Sage Psy will occasionally come across a person they just can't kill due to lack of spike damage (without triple sparking). In fact, triple spark ig nullifies the whole argument. Go sage.

Demon Psy for..... boss dd...... in tiger event because if you want boss dd for anything else go reroll aps toon.

Dai_Viper - Archosaur

Kerona - Sanctuary wrote: »

If you use Tide Spirit, a two spark skill. Demon Landslide has the drawbacks that it's only 30% chance to proc, only lasts 4 seconds, and you must be at 10 meter or less (biggest drawback imo) for it to even be used..

8secs cd, u can spam it. 4 secs is enough to drop either high hp barb or high def bm

Sage is more defensible due to longer Psy Will, as well as another purify, slight heal on Retal cast, longer soul of stun at high soulforce values, longer soulburn (when used as a deterrant in this example), and greater chi production capabilities that enable it to use the spark requiring defensive skills.

when u purify after wiz def buff, u just can use it again after 30 secs cd. and remember wiz's debuff is 1 sec cd.

In practice, most Demon psy I've observed run around until they get a proc or enough chi for tide spirit (after somehow making it so their opponent who isn't an idiot can't just run when they see tide spirit....) and hope for a crit.

Why would u stand at 1 spot and try to tank?

Conversely, Sage Psy will occasionally come across a person they just can't kill due to lack of spike damage (without triple sparking). In fact, triple spark ig nullifies the whole argument. Go sage.

Sage has 5 extra def lvl in white voodoo. For me, it really doesnt matter.

Demon Psy for..... boss dd...... in tiger event because if you want boss dd for anything else go reroll aps toon.

To kill the ppl who have the same gear or better gear, u need crits... and sage doesnt have that much crits as demon

Kerona - Sanctuary

Dai_Viper - Archosaur wrote: »

8secs cd, u can spam it. 4 secs is enough to drop either high hp barb or high def bm


when u purify after wiz def buff, u just can use it again after 30 secs cd. and remember wiz's debuff is 1 sec cd.



Why would u stand at 1 spot and try to tank?



Sage has 5 extra def lvl in white voodoo. For me, it really doesnt matter.



To kill the ppl who have the same gear or better gear, u need crits... and sage doesnt have that much crits as demon

Why are you standing within 10 meters of a equivalent gear barb long (which is inside their onslaught range mind you) enough to spam landslide on them? To quote YOU "Why would u stand at 1 spot and try to tank?". Barbs of my equivalent gear are R9 with roughly 30-50k HP standard (some jades with 30, some vit with 50). In 4 seconds you can get 2-3 casts off if you're lucky. The skill boosts you to between 50-68% crit on its own as a Demon. It would be abnormal to drop a barb of equivalent hp and a charm on within 4 seconds even if all of your 2-3 hits crit and the barb stands still and lets you hit him for no apparent reason.

Psychics have 3 purifies (1 triple spark) at sage. If you space them you can purify yourself every 15 seconds without sparking.... Argument invalid. Add in Faith on your genie for 4 freaking purifies or just use soul of fire for crying out loud and.... more invalid arguments.

Euzebe - Sanctuary

You can stand within 10 metres of a barb for quite an extended period of time while spamming landslide... There's a 30% silence rate on SoSi, there's SoSt, theres Psy Will, there's Earth Vector, there's Sandball for a chance to silence. When all that's done, there's Glacial Shards to keep him at 10m.

Landslide won't kill an r9 barb in the 3 attack span but with 68-70% crit it makes ticking the charm and actually getting into the hp simpler.

Other than Sage Bubble, a sage psychic does nothing different than a normal psychic and that's boring. And like it was said, there are quite a few self purification options.

Kerona - Sanctuary

Euzebe - Sanctuary wrote: »

You can stand within 10 metres of a barb for quite an extended period of time while spamming landslide... There's a 30% silence rate on SoSi, there's SoSt, theres Psy Will, there's Earth Vector, there's Sandball for a chance to silence. When all that's done, there's Glacial Shards to keep him at 10m.

Landslide won't kill an r9 barb in the 3 attack span but with 68-70% crit it makes ticking the charm and actually getting into the hp simpler.

Other than Sage Bubble, a sage psychic does nothing different than a normal psychic and that's boring. And like it was said, there are quite a few self purification options.

All of the things you just listed except for Psy Will are chance dependent. Every single one. Basically a Demon Psychic is a Gambler's paradise. It's unlikely that they'll be successful, but the chance keeps them "interesting".

I'd rather be "boring" and more uniformly defensible at my >10 meter range where Barbs/BMs can't even touch me than have a consistently high chance to fail.

PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver

Kerona - Sanctuary wrote: »

All of the things you just listed except for Psy Will are chance dependent. Every single one. Basically a Demon Psychic is a Gambler's paradise. It's unlikely that they'll be successful, but the chance keeps them "interesting".

I'd rather be "boring" and more uniformly defensible at my >10 meter range where Barbs/BMs can't even touch me than have a consistently high chance to fail.

might as well say Pack Psy instead of demon :b

Kerona - Sanctuary

But the next Landslide after Glacial Shards while Earth Vectored off my Soul of Silence is gonna be Scroll of Tome I swear! b:sad

Strife_son - Sanctuary

Both are fun stuffz

_Petal_ - Harshlands

bezmor wrote: »

Thats a little out dated vid but bottum line Sage is super high defense while demon is built to kill.

I'll just leave these slightly outdated PvP rankings here....

http://pwi.perfectworld.com/ranking?ranking=pvp&class=Psychic&server=all

Who wants to count the Sages?


And on Harshlands, where everybody loves Psychics---
http://pwi.perfectworld.com/ranking?ranking=kill_death_ratio&class=Psychic&server=Harshlands
http://pwi.perfectworld.com/ranking?ranking=pvp&class=Psychic&server=Harshlands

Demon Psychic count: 0

Subtraction - Harshlands

_Petal_ - Harshlands wrote: »

I'll just leave these slightly outdated PvP rankings here....

http://pwi.perfectworld.com/ranking?ranking=pvp&class=Psychic&server=all

Who wants to count the Sages?


And on Harshlands, where everybody loves Psychics---
http://pwi.perfectworld.com/ranking?ranking=kill_death_ratio&class=Psychic&server=Harshlands
http://pwi.perfectworld.com/ranking?ranking=pvp&class=Psychic&server=Harshlands

Demon Psychic count: 0

letsdance is demon (also used to be in HA toob:chuckle)
Prixila is demon too.

And who the **** is Arhina?

_Petal_ - Harshlands

Subtraction - Harshlands wrote: »

letsdance is demon (also used to be in HA toob:chuckle)
Prixila is demon too.

And who the **** is Arhina?

Did he really change sides? That doesn't seem like something Dan would do. .-. Prix was sage last I checked...I know this because he got his Psychic to 89 long before I did, and I was jealous of his Bubble. -_-;


>.> And don't even get me STARTED on Letsdance....even if he's overall knowledge of the class is rather legit.....for a former sin.

I tw'd against him quite a few times when he was HA...you stick a few venomancers on him, and he was pretty much roasty toasty. Nowadays...not so much... b:sad
It's bad enough he was HA, but demon too? Yikes.


.-. And the hell if I know who Arhina is. Never heard of her. But there she be, on the list anyway.

Longknife - Harshlands

Dai_Viper - Archosaur wrote: »

To kill the ppl who have the same gear or better gear, u need crits... and sage doesnt have that much crits as demon

And demon does? You have 2% extra crit. That's it.
The only other way is to use Landslide, which requires the enemy in range and then it MIGHT proc, and 4 seconds is only two spells, or Tide Spirit, which needs hella chi to use. Since Psys are squishy as all hell and any good Psy will tell you the goal of a Psychic is to avoid getting hit AT ALL, it's generally suicidal to use Tide Spirit without having a spare spark for Earth Vector or Psy Will. And again, Tide Spirit's crit duration is short. Landslide demands a situation, followed by a CHANCE, followed by another CHANCE. Totally unreliable. Tide Spirit, again, demands two sparks (from a class that seems designed to use sparks defensively) to have another CHANCE at critting, meanwhile you're usually left wide open.


Let's stop kidding ourselves, Demon is f*cking sh*t.

Whereas a Sage can hit a point where Soul of Silence procs 30% of the time, one proc + five second silence for your enemy and you have a buff that reduces your charm cooldown to 6 seconds, Demon only has a three second silence and 7 second charm cooldown. A Demon is so much easier to kill than a Sage. On the defense end of things, Sage just absolutely curbstomps Demon.

As for offense? Psy ALREADY HAS one of the best offensive setups out there. Why would we need more? More importantly, the difference is quite small. For instance, as a sage I can tell you that the spark saved from Earth Vector and the extended time on Glacial Shards are absolute lifesavers. Whereas you argue your Tide Spirit is better, you fail to realize that thanks to our simple chi skill and the spark saved from Earth Vector, a sage Psy is far more likely to be able to FRIGGIN USE Tide Spirit. Yours, objectively, is great, but with your overall setup, it's simply not practical in the least.


Let me put it this way....what class do you think a Demon Psy does better at fighting than a sage?

I can tell you you probably have a hell of a lot tougher time killing an archer than a sage does. A good archer is gonna keep anti stun up and kite your Psy will. Whereas a sage can answer back and nullify an archer's kiting by combining Expel + BoL, Psy will and a little kiting ourselves, you guys would be left up against the wall. Tide Spirit? He's gonna kite that. You've just invested all your sparks in a kamikaze attack and he's gonna kite it. Then you're screwed.

Barb? Maybe you could kill one faster, but a sage Psy can kite one for DAAAAYS. There's no rush, no hurry. I have him locked in place, his charm ticking like crazy as I stand miles away, ready to give myself physical immunity if something fails to proc on him. Killing him quickly is a luxury, not a neccesity.

BM? You might mention Tide Spirit + Absolute Domain and finish him like that. Guess what? We can do it too. And I can tell you from experience, the Sage one still gets the job done.

Veno? A good veno is gonna wait for you to Psy will, purify you and nix bleed you. You're not necessarily dead at this point, but the fight is pretty even then. A sage? That doesn't work because we have two purifies and two physical immunities.

Wizard? Hell, this is the opposite of Barb. You still do fine, but we kill them faster and we're more reliable. We can literally white voodoo, spam our DoTs and Disturb Soul until we build up chi, then either soulburn, tide spirit or both. You guys would both take longer to build that chi and deal less damage, giving them more room to breathe. Hell, your silence is shorter and your charm cooldown is longer, so they're more likely to kill you in white.



I could go on, but I won't. As I said, name a single class matchup where a demon Psy does the job better than a sage. There isn't one.

Demon Psy is the classic case of putting all your eggs in one basket. You get high off of how awesome Psychic's offense is, invest into it more and completely forget that your defense sucks balls. You even revolve practically the ENTIRE decision to go demon around ONE skill: Tide Spirit, which again is stupid because you've invested everything into one skill. All anyone has to do is holy path away if they see Tide Spirit and you're SCREWED. You just wasted ALL your chi on the skill that was supposed to save you and they kited it out. Now you have no chi and your ace in the hole just got wasted. NOW WHAT?


Like I said, let's stop kidding ourselves. Demon Psy is f**king sh*t. Go buy the Celestial Schism while they're still on sale.

Subtraction - Harshlands wrote: »

letsdance is demon (also used to be in HA toob:chuckle)
Prixila is demon too.

And who the **** is Arhina?

Arhina is VaeVictus, and if I remember correct, also Demon.

Harshlands actually has a crapton of demon Psys, infact I'd say the well-known Psys are split 50-50. xStormy was demon until someone finally convinced her it's ****. Nevertheless, the amount of idiots with demon doesn't make it right.

A better way to put it would be....name a Psy that didn't just immediately r9 +12 themselves (let's also remember a LOT of Psys aren't actually Psys, but alt characters of people who were convinced they could just r9 +12 the class and never bother learning it, hence the high population of demon Psys), has modest gear, is a demon and is highly respected by the community as being skilled and good at what they do.
I'm not saying a demon Psy can't be good; the base class is strong enough so that you could still wreck some stuff up as demon, but that doesn't justify choosing it and basically nerfing your potential. What I am saying though is that I would expect to find far more idiots in the demon Psy population and far less skilled and intelligent players.

LuciferV - Raging Tide

Sage or Demon.. its just how good you are at using your psy, nothing better, nothing worse..
nuff said

Longknife - Harshlands

LuciferV - Raging Tide wrote: »

Sage or Demon.. its just how good you are at using your psy, nothing better, nothing worse..
nuff said

No f**k that, Demon is trash.

Namari - Dreamweaver

I went sage because at the time I already had a demon char (wizard), and then I further did my homework and realized that a sage psychic was the right way at least for me.

I like to kill ****, but I also want to make sure I last long enough to kill ****. Sage BoL is sexy. Remember TT 3-3 BH? I LOVED that, because I was able to use that often (would **** me off if the boss debuffed RIGHT AFTER I purified, but that was a rare thing). SoV, while useless in most PvP situations (remember, carebear server here), is awesome for the barbs who would rage otherwise when I would cast it on them. Landslide? Pfft, only knockback that works in PvP is Bramble Tornado anyways, so it'd be mostly to knock down HP assuming that I'm that close (and a sage psychic can afford to be close at times).

Now I know of maybe 2-3 demon psychics on Dreamweaver. One of them was formerly a sin. He's scary. But mostly because he had awesome gear before PWE made it possible for the nubbiest of people to get rank 9 +12. Otherwise, I constantly see little blue fairies flying around psychics. I'm a crit *****, but I also like to live, tyvm.

SorrowFace - Dreamweaver

I think this thread has convinced me...I'm going Demon. b:victory

Strife_son - Sanctuary

Reminds me of when everyone was saying demon BM's were inferior to sage ones, 3-4 years ago? All so blurry, I've played this game far too long. Either way, if you haven't actually played end-game versions of a demon and a sage psychic, it's probably best to say so. You're only giving your opinion based on 50% hands on experience. Demon psy's do very well in TW still, you simply have to alter you play style. Where's a TW video euzebe, show the non-believers how it is done.

Personally I think both are strong, bottom line comes down to player ability.

Kerona - Sanctuary

SorrowFace - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I think this thread has convinced me...I'm going Demon. b:victory

b:bye

@ Strife - But where you're wrong is.... Demon Psy does suck.

Dai_Viper - Archosaur

Longknife - Harshlands wrote: »

No f**k that, Demon is trash.

haha, i never seen any good sage psyb:chuckle
anyway, sage or demon, thats your choice. end of thread

Subtraction - Harshlands

Dai_Viper - Archosaur wrote: »

haha, i never seen any good sage psyb:chuckle

*looks at name of server*

...have you seen ANYONE on that server?b:chuckle

Dai_Viper - Archosaur

Subtraction - Harshlands wrote: »

*looks at name of server*

...have you seen ANYONE on that server?b:chuckle

come to my server to check it out then, instead of guessing. Small server doesnt mean there aint good players, big server doesnt mean there are good players...b:laugh

Namari - Dreamweaver

I went to arch server one day...

I was able to hear myself ****.b:chuckle