Advice for next gear

TwentyThree - Dreamweaver
TwentyThree - Dreamweaver Posts: 18 Arc User
edited April 2012 in Assassin
Here is my current setup: http://pwcalc.com/cb063e16e2e6e0ed

I'm waffling about how to upgrade my daggers. The thing is I don't really pk ever, I just run instances. Just about everyone says get R9, and if not then get g15 nirvana. I think that GoF/SS would damage me too much to run instances efficiently, I'd have to spam pots and stay charmed all the time.

I have a barb on other acct with sage buffs, so my hp is like 12.5k. I'm pretty sure SS and GoF are 20% and 30% to proc, respectively. With SS/5 aps I lose 622 hp/sec. With GoF/4 aps I lose 750 hp/sec.

To put that in perspective, I solo nirvana easily with a charm, difficultly without. In 3-2 I'm barely able to solo minister, but I can without dying 9 times out of 10. So my worry is that the increased damage I take won't allow me to do these without staying charmed.

My plan was to get the R8 recast daggers and attempt for -.05 int and +20 atk levels, since the odds to get that are too low for the g15 nirvana daggers.

Any input is appreciated, but keep in mind that for my play style, +20 atk level is significantly better than sac strike. b:victory
Post edited by TwentyThree - Dreamweaver on

Comments

  • Olbaze - Sanctuary
    Olbaze - Sanctuary Posts: 4,242 Arc User
    edited April 2012
    TwentyThree - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    I have a barb on other acct with sage buffs, so my hp is like 12.5k. I'm pretty sure SS and GoF are 20% and 30% to proc, respectively. With SS/5 aps I lose 622 hp/sec. With GoF/4 aps I lose 750 hp/sec.

    15% and 20%, actually.
    My plan was to get the R8 recast daggers and attempt for -.05 int and +20 atk levels, since the odds to get that are too low for the g15 nirvana daggers.

    Odds for +20 Attack Levels and -0.05 interval on G15 Nirvana: 1/500
    Odds for +20 Attack Levels and -0.05 interval on recast R8: 1/1,153

    So no, it's not any easier. Mostly because the odds of -0.05 interval on recast r8 is 0.39%, whereas it's a decent 10% on G15 Nirvana.
    I am Olba. Not Ol, not Baze nor Blaze. And even less would I go by Olblaze. Please, take a second to read a person's username.
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  • Nowitsawn - Heavens Tear
    Nowitsawn - Heavens Tear Posts: 4,864 Arc User
    edited April 2012
    I'd say that as far as PvE is concerned, you're pretty much done. Just refines and shards that are left.
    TwentyThree - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    My plan was to get the R8 recast daggers and attempt for -.05 int and +20 atk levels, since the odds to get that are too low for the g15 nirvana daggers.

    Any input is appreciated, but keep in mind that for my play style, +20 atk level is significantly better than sac strike. b:victory

    That would be a waste of your current daggers, don't you think? The chance of getting -0.05 int on recast r8 is abysmal (0.13%) compared to 2nd nirv (5%). Rerolling recast daggers is also a LOT more expensive than nirvana, at current prices you could probably reroll nirvy daggers 6 times for the costs of 1 recast r8 reroll.
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  • TwentyThree - Dreamweaver
    TwentyThree - Dreamweaver Posts: 18 Arc User
    edited April 2012
    Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »
    15% and 20%, actually.

    Ah, good to know.


    Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Odds for +20 Attack Levels and -0.05 interval on G15 Nirvana: 1/500
    Odds for +20 Attack Levels and -0.05 interval on recast R8: 1/1,153

    So no, it's not any easier. Mostly because the odds of -0.05 interval on recast r8 is 0.39%, whereas it's a decent 10% on G15 Nirvana.

    But as I understand it, once I get either add on the R8 recast, I can keep the add and only reroll the other two, whereas nirvana is just a blind roll each time.

    Edit: Also, I guess I didn't realize odds for -int on R8 recast was so low, I thought it would be comparable to the G15. This sucks. I guess I should +12 and go home
  • Nowitsawn - Heavens Tear
    Nowitsawn - Heavens Tear Posts: 4,864 Arc User
    edited April 2012
    TwentyThree - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    But as I understand it, once I get either add on the R8 recast, I can keep the add and only reroll the other two, whereas nirvana is just a blind roll each time.

    Nope, once you get adds you like you can reroll their values to possibly have them maxed.

    Say you get 10 attack levels, max phys attack +80 and dex +8, then you can reroll the values in hopes of getting higher ones, the best outcome being 25 attack levels, 180 phys attack and 20 dex.
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  • _Skai_ - Raging Tide
    _Skai_ - Raging Tide Posts: 3,407 Arc User
    edited April 2012
    TwentyThree - Dreamweaver wrote: »

    But as I understand it, once I get either add on the R8 recast, I can keep the add and only reroll the other two, whereas nirvana is just a blind roll each time.

    Edit: Also, I guess I didn't realize odds for -int on R8 recast was so low, I thought it would be comparable to the G15. This sucks. I guess I should +12 and go home

    Nope. As awn said, it's just like Nirvana forging. Reshaping is rerolling the stats, and honing is rerolling the numbers on those stats, while keeping them all.

    So if you get Attack levels +17, Vit+10, Dex+17, and Str+8. If you reshape, you'll lose all of those and roll for 4 different attributes again. If you hone, you'll keep all 4, and the stat numbers will reroll. So it can come out to something like Attack levels +21, Vit+9, Dex+15, and Str+18.

    And also, you will not like how rare Damascene ores are.
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  • Nowitsawn - Heavens Tear
    Nowitsawn - Heavens Tear Posts: 4,864 Arc User
    edited April 2012
    _Skai_ - Raging Tide wrote: »
    And also, you will not like how rare Damascene ores are.

    I guess that just depends on the server, they're around 12mil each here on HT with plenty going around. There is almost always about 10-15 on them for sale around the base manager, there was even a catshop selling 32 of them a while ago (perhaps it's still there b:chuckle).
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  • SpazzMcAps - Harshlands
    SpazzMcAps - Harshlands Posts: 2,561 Arc User
    edited April 2012
    Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »
    15% and 20%, actually.



    Odds for +20 Attack Levels and -0.05 interval on G15 Nirvana: 1/500
    Odds for +20 Attack Levels and -0.05 interval on recast R8: 1/1,153

    So no, it's not any easier. Mostly because the odds of -0.05 interval on recast r8 is 0.39%, whereas it's a decent 10% on G15 Nirvana.

    arent the adds mutually exclusive?
  • Olbaze - Sanctuary
    Olbaze - Sanctuary Posts: 4,242 Arc User
    edited April 2012
    SpazzMcAps - Harshlands wrote: »
    arent the adds mutually exclusive?

    No.

    +20 Attack Levels is a Unique mod for either recast R8 or G15 Nirvana, whereas -interval is a random mod.
    I am Olba. Not Ol, not Baze nor Blaze. And even less would I go by Olblaze. Please, take a second to read a person's username.
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  • TwentyThree - Dreamweaver
    TwentyThree - Dreamweaver Posts: 18 Arc User
    edited April 2012
    Right, I understand what you guys have said. When I said "you can keep one mod and reroll the other two" I meant, if I were to get a -int add, I could keep that while I got 2 more random ones (1 unique).

    Either way, the math seems pretty bad for going the R8 recast route, even if damascene ores are abundant (and I read the thread about them being....not). I will probably just get my current G13 daggers +12, and get my ornaments +10 after that.

    Additional offense on top of the +12 will likely take another expansion or something, idk what.
  • _Skai_ - Raging Tide
    _Skai_ - Raging Tide Posts: 3,407 Arc User
    edited April 2012
    TwentyThree - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Right, I understand what you guys have said. When I said "you can keep one mod and reroll the other two" I meant, if I were to get a -int add, I could keep that while I got 2 more random ones (1 unique).

    Yeah that's not how it works for R8r sadly. Like we said, it's just like Nirvana casting.
    Either way, the math seems pretty bad for going the R8 recast route, even if damascene ores are abundant (and I read the thread about them being....not). I will probably just get my current G13 daggers +12, and get my ornaments +10 after that.

    Additional offense on top of the +12 will likely take another expansion or something, idk what.

    If you plan on buying the Damascene or to reshape, be prepared to pay a good 45m per reshape. For Nirvana, it only takes 7 raptures, which priced at 1.3m each is 9.1m.

    So if you want the statistical cost of getting 20 attack levels and -int on the following daggers, here they are:
    Odds for +20 Attack Levels and -0.05 interval on G15 Nirvana: 1/500
    Odds for +20 Attack Levels and -0.05 interval on recast R8: 1/1,153

    500 casts to get those stats on a G15 vana dagger = 500*7 raptures = 3500 raptures * 1.3m each = 4,550m, or 4.55 billion coins.

    1,153 casts to get those stats on a R8r dagger = 1,153*((90 Memorial coin * 30k each) + (12 Adam whetstones * 700k each) + (3 Damascenes * ~10m each) + 2m) = 1,153*(43.1m) = 49,694.3m, or almost 49.7 billion coins.

    Those are just the statistical odds though. As always you could cast it twice and get the adds on both weapons, or cast them 20k times and still not have it.
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  • SpazzMcAps - Harshlands
    SpazzMcAps - Harshlands Posts: 2,561 Arc User
    edited April 2012
    Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »
    No.

    +20 Attack Levels is a Unique mod for either recast R8 or G15 Nirvana, whereas -interval is a random mod.

    I meant that as, Do the odds of one add affect the odds of a different add?
  • Olbaze - Sanctuary
    Olbaze - Sanctuary Posts: 4,242 Arc User
    edited April 2012
    SpazzMcAps - Harshlands wrote: »
    I meant that as, Do the odds of one add affect the odds of a different add?

    No.

    Just that any combination of adds obviously has lower odds than any single add. It's called independent probability.
    I am Olba. Not Ol, not Baze nor Blaze. And even less would I go by Olblaze. Please, take a second to read a person's username.
    If you see b:cute be sure to take a second, calm look at anything I said.
  • Typhyse - Sanctuary
    Typhyse - Sanctuary Posts: 3,469 Arc User
    edited April 2012
    Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »
    No.

    Just that any combination of adds obviously has lower odds than any single add. It's called independent probability.
    Look at you adding a little mathematical science to the sin forums b:cute
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  • Nowitsawn - Heavens Tear
    Nowitsawn - Heavens Tear Posts: 4,864 Arc User
    edited April 2012
    Typhyse - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Look at you adding a little mathematical science to the sin forums b:cute

    Assassins can use bows effectively as well, after all b:chuckle
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  • Olba - Sanctuary
    Olba - Sanctuary Posts: 1,776 Arc User
    edited April 2012
    Nowitsawn - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Assassins can use bows effectively as well, after all b:chuckle

    Truth is I'm actually an immigrant from that place.
    If you disregard what I say because of who I am or because of the contents of what I said, you are a fool.

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  • OontzOontz - Dreamweaver
    OontzOontz - Dreamweaver Posts: 782 Arc User
    edited April 2012
    Why not just work towards a recast r9 dagger? The extra 10 attack levels would help in bp to even out gof damage easier.

    After that, you can work on getting double interval on recast r8 boots.
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  • Typhyse - Sanctuary
    Typhyse - Sanctuary Posts: 3,469 Arc User
    edited April 2012
    Olba - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Truth is I'm actually an immigrant from that place.
    I was aware of this lol.
    Demon_Troll: "takes on the appearance of an innocent archer but turns into a mindless idiot once you hear him speak"
    ~Spazz~
  • Drunken_Chu - Dreamweaver
    Drunken_Chu - Dreamweaver Posts: 257 Arc User
    edited April 2012
    23 I know you like omalley blessing and you have a sage barb so I've come up with this. http://pwcalc.com/a11b7d8e1dc95058 +10 and 2 garnet gems would be easy enough for R9 daggers.

    You have 12084 hp in that scenario, so 5% loss is 604 hp. at 4 aps and 20% chance to proc thats 80% chance to proc per second. 80% of 604 hp is 483 hp lost per second

    Now lets look at your dps. 19082+23299 / 2 is an average dph of 21,190. 21,190 at 4 aps is 84,760. multiply that by 1.37 for a 37% crit rate, multiply by 1.5 for 50 attack levels, and multiply by 1.2 for a 20% chance to do double damage with GoF. That's 209,018 dps

    Now of course against bosses there is a masssive damage reduction, its a reduction of roughly 75%, so your dps is now 209,018 / 4 = 52,254

    Bloodpaint heals you for 2% of damage dealt, 2% of 52,254 is 1,045 bloodsuck per second.

    1,045 hp gained per second - 483 hp lost per second = 562 hp gained per second.

    My point is, you don't lose hp with sacrificial strike or with GoF, +12ing G13 daggers would be a waste.




    I went ahead and tried the same thing with an endgame build, you still are gaining 441 hp per second. http://pwcalc.com/e18d6c6c217d07bf


    edit: oh yeah and none of this was calculating wolf emblem, power dash, genie skills, or anything else of that nature, which just makes your dps and therefore your healing even higher.
  • TwentyThree - Dreamweaver
    TwentyThree - Dreamweaver Posts: 18 Arc User
    edited April 2012
    Yeah, my math was based on flawed % chance of SS and GoF to proc, because higher proc rate = more dps that I take. I think I've decided to get R9 daggers after all. given that pwi hates real sales, I'll prob get the ring now and daggers next time General Summer sale rolls around.

    and then I'll be like all the other R9 sins b:cry

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