Glacial Spike equals Heaven's Flame in PvE?

theendlessme

Granted a mob has 100% Def (no buffs), then a Glacial Spike would half that defense to 50%, which would be the same as amplifying damage 2x right? Please Reply back because I think it's worth thinking about. And

I will agree that GS < HF in PvP =o no contest.

SpazzMcAps - Harshlands

theendlessme wrote: »

I like men.

That's how I read that post.

Maelael - Heavens Tear

SpazzMcAps - Harshlands wrote: »

That's how I read that post.

Spazz, theres nothing wrong with dudes who like dudes and girls who like girls.

But lets do simple logic math:

100 Damage x 2 = 200 Damage.

100 Damage x 1.5 = 150 Damage.

Now, it doesn't work out that good for GS, as there are other factors than pdef/mdef mitigating damage. But regardless, grade school math gives you the information you're seeking. Some people just think too far into things?

Nowitsawn - Heavens Tear

Most endgame mobs/bosses have a physical defense of anywhere between 2500 and 4500, this is about the same for magical defenses (they tend to have around 2500 m.def on average, 4300 of the element they have and 1600 of the opposing element).

2500 physical defense decreases damage dealt by level 101 enemies (=you) by 39%, so you deal 61% total damage. With the GS reduction this becomes 1250 defense, which reduces damage dealt by 24%, making you deal 76% damage. This makes it a damage increase of roughly 25%.

The same deal with 4500 defense makes it a damage increase of 36%.

Superior to HF? Not quite.

theendlessme

These are great posts. At least I learned something. Looks like i will be prioritizing Heaven's Flame thanks=o =D

PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver

(and ofc there are stuff with 0 def)

SpazzMcAps - Harshlands

Maelael - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Spazz, theres nothing wrong with dudes who like dudes and girls who like girls.

But lets do simple logic math:

100 Damage x 2 = 200 Damage.

100 Damage x 1.5 = 150 Damage.

Now, it doesn't work out that good for GS, as there are other factors than pdef/mdef mitigating damage. But regardless, grade school math gives you the information you're seeking. Some people just think too far into things?

i know, im not prejudiced in any way i dyslexia, so i was trying to cheer myself up.
also i dont see how that would be offensive I was just being random.

Sarrafeline - Sanctuary

I look at it this way: I can get an HF off and a GS off and 2 sparks before HF is cooled down from the first use. This means that if you use both, it is worthwhile, as opposed to not using GS and just HFing.

Granted, you can still permaspark and HF...

SpazzMcAps - Harshlands

Sarrafeline - Sanctuary wrote: »

I look at it this way: I can get an HF off and a GS off and 2 sparks before HF is cooled down from the first use. This means that if you use both, it is worthwhile, as opposed to not using GS and just HFing.

Granted, you can still permaspark and HF...

chi pots and cloud eruption ftw. ofc if you were 5 aps base sage then you can use master lis thingy

Sakubatou - Sanctuary

SpazzMcAps - Harshlands wrote: »

chi pots and cloud eruption ftw. ofc if you were 5 aps base sage then you can use master lis thingy

2 second channeling time for 10 hits loss. What's the point of using a chi skill to gain 50 chi if you could just attack 10 times in the same amount of time that gives you 50 chi, and not lose 14% dps.


That's why I never got the "5 aps sage" claim for people who used cyclone to get to 5.0. Demon still does 15% more dmg than you just because they don't waste time triple sparking and so you are still basically equal to a 4 aps demon. 2 seconds for cyclone is 10 attacks. Demon is doing 75 while sage only does 65 attacks per 15 seconds. 75/65=15.4%. Sure you can use cyclone then triple spark but that means you are sparking 2 seconds after everyone else, and it means your cyclone fell on the previous spark set or you are now in a 17 second cycle (2 second cyclone + 15 second spark) instead of a 15 second cyclone like a demon which fits perfectly with 30 second amp/genie debuffs. Either way, you're 15-20% behind.

SpazzMcAps - Harshlands

Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »

2 second channeling time for 10 hits loss. What's the point of using a chi skill to gain 50 chi if you could just attack 10 times in the same amount of time that gives you 50 chi, and not lose 14% dps.


That's why I never got the "5 aps sage" claim for people who used cyclone to get to 5.0. Demon still does 15% more dmg than you just because they don't waste time triple sparking and so you are still basically equal to a 4 aps demon. 2 seconds for cyclone is 10 attacks. Demon is doing 75 while sage only does 65 attacks per 15 seconds. 75/65=15.4%. Sure you can use cyclone then triple spark but that means you are sparking 2 seconds after everyone else, and it means your cyclone fell on the previous spark set or you are now in a 17 second cycle (2 second cyclone + 15 second spark) instead of a 15 second cyclone like a demon which fits perfectly with 30 second amp/genie debuffs. Either way, you're 15-20% behind.

I cant math today I brained my stab.

Sltryder - Lost City

sage cyclone last 20secs. so you cyclone then spark means you get a full 15 secs of 5.0 using cyclone after spark is jsut stupid. 2 sec cast + 3sec immune from spark leaves the 15sec of 5.0. plus the over all 15% more damage per hit. but then take in effect of less crit. it equals out to about the same but really depends on the player. me my self. i will dbl spark. heel HF. then i am still 5.0 and dropped a HF so my team is ripping it apart and im still doign damage. plus with level 1 wind shield you can spam that for constant 5.0 also

Sakubatou - Sanctuary

Sltryder - Lost City wrote: »

sage cyclone last 20secs. so you cyclone then spark means you get a full 15 secs of 5.0 using cyclone after spark is jsut stupid. 2 sec cast + 3sec immune from spark leaves the 15sec of 5.0. plus the over all 15% more damage per hit. but then take in effect of less crit. it equals out to about the same but really depends on the player. me my self. i will dbl spark. heel HF. then i am still 5.0 and dropped a HF so my team is ripping it apart and im still doign damage. plus with level 1 wind shield you can spam that for constant 5.0 also

I covered that in my original post. Even if you are cycloning then sparking your losing 2 seconds of time, and you next cyclone will fall on the tail of your first spark but before your second spark so another two seconds (assuming a second spark is needed). Yes you get 15 seconds of 5 aps sparked, but it takes you 20 seconds to get that 15 seconds because of the 2 second cyclone and 3 second spark immunity.

15% more damage per hit? Do you mean 15% more weapon damage which is about 1.5-2.5% more damage per hit? The math has been done, demon mastery gives better dps for endgame weapons.

And if you bring up windshield you are either not using your genie to debuff for your entire squad or you are not timing frenzy/poison/tangling mire for increasing your own damage while debuffs are stacked.

Point remains, its still about a 20% difference.

Sarrafeline - Sanctuary

I have a 4.0 Sage sin. 4.0 is still permaspark territory.

My BM is 4.0 base with Deicide, and if I'm, say, in a squad with 5 sins, unless most of them die before whatever it is we're killing dies, I prefer to not bother sparking, and instead HF/GS every time they aren't on CD and I have 2+ sparks.

If I'm in a squad with one sin and 4 others of different classes other than Sin, I tend to Demon spark, then HF, and remain sparked as much as I can.

If the sin has lower DPS than I do, I'll just permaspark.

I don't have a Sage BM yet. My Demon BM will hopefully be 5.0 base with Deicide, or 3.33 base with non-interval fists.

I've got a 5.0 base Sage Archer, and you know what... Sage Spark and 5.0 is pretty OP.

pieman001

theendlessme wrote: »

Granted a mob has 100% Def (no buffs), then a Glacial Spike would half that defense to 50%, which would be the same as amplifying damage 2x right? Please Reply back because I think it's worth thinking about. And

I will agree that GS < HF in PvP =o no contest.

Glacial spike only last 10 seconds. Thats 50% X 10+ 500%

Heaven flame last 6, but does 100%. 100% X 6 +600%

glacial spike is only good for casters who take a long time to cast their spells, HF is good for aps.

Sakubatou - Sanctuary

pieman001 wrote: »

Glacial spike only last 10 seconds. Thats 50% X 10+ 500%

Heaven flame last 6, but does 100%. 100% X 6 +600%

glacial spike is only good for casters who take a long time to cast their spells, HF is good for aps.

Necro and wrong. 50% less defense does not mean 50% more damage. It's around 32% for most bosses. Some bosses, like in CoA have 0 defense anyways.

Divine_Death - Dreamweaver

Wtf are BMs going to do after people like Saku, TheDan and I quit? Probably shard DoT in fists, ambers in armor and eat glue.

Like he said, resistance isn't linear to damage taken, there are other factors in the equation so 50% resistance reduction doesn't translate to 50% more damage taken.

SpazzMcAps - Harshlands

Divine_Death - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Wtf are BMs going to do after people like Saku, TheDan and I quit? Probably shard DoT in fists, ambers in armor and eat glue.

Like he said, resistance isn't linear to damage taken, there are other factors in the equation so 50% resistance reduction doesn't translate to 50% more damage taken.

you mean they will turn into demon troll? b:shocked

Sakubatou - Sanctuary

Divine_Death - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Wtf are BMs going to do after people like Saku, TheDan and I quit? Probably shard DoT in fists, ambers in armor and eat glue.

Prolly switch to a dumbed-down melee class... *watches the number of sins grow*

USSRbm - Heavens Tear

pffffttt. Stun, HF, demon Glacial (hope for crit), Stun again. PEWPEW = ded other person


Thats all.

go go go wasts all your chi on 1 person b:victory

SpazzMcAps - Harshlands

Divine_Death - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Wtf are BMs going to do after people like Saku, TheDan and I quit? Probably shard DoT in fists, ambers in armor and eat glue.

Like he said, resistance isn't linear to damage taken, there are other factors in the equation so 50% resistance reduction doesn't translate to 50% more damage taken.

I have a bm in my faction that insists dots are the best shard for weapons

Phoenix_Eye - Heavens Tear

SpazzMcAps - Harshlands wrote: »

I have a bm in my faction that insists dots are the best shard for weapons

Does he use Nirvana Patakas too cause they have higher phys dmg ?

pieman001

Divine_Death - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Wtf are BMs going to do after people like Saku, TheDan and I quit? Probably shard DoT in fists, ambers in armor and eat glue.

Like he said, resistance isn't linear to damage taken, there are other factors in the equation so 50% resistance reduction doesn't translate to 50% more damage taken.

That means hf is even stronger lol. Only proving my point