Comparsion....

_Perses_ - Lost City

R9 gear set-up to house 3 pieces when r9 axe is equiped: http://pwcalc.com/126ce3cb2430e0f9



Personal set-up I am working towards currently, axe will end up being a non-recast r8 +10 poleaxe or a recasted r8 poleaxe with either GoF or Spirit Blackhole +10: http://pwcalc.com/46a15dd523319c68



Do note that both of these builds have no buffs at all (Even self buffs/masteries), I just want a base comparsion of them.

MrKnuckuls - Sanctuary

My personal opionion...both of those are absolutely absurd for APS. With APS builds, you should be looking at spending the bear minimum, because it simply doesn't take that much to survive PVE, which is the only time your should really be using APS, outside of chi building.

Your coin would be much better spent, and once again this is my opinion, on what you NEED to achieve 5 APS, with the only piece of APS gear that is highly refined being your claw/fist. Then spend the rest of your coin on a second set of gear for PvP, that being r9. If you can afford +12 refines, you can afford r9.

_Perses_ - Lost City

I already have a my bm at 5.0 +10 w/ lvl 11 dragons. These are two set-ups I'm looking at for keeping 5.0 w/o having to constantly switch gear like a madman.

MrKnuckuls - Sanctuary

Thats a lot of coin to still be inferior to r9 simply because you don't want to switch gear out. I really don't mean to sound rude, I'm simply trying to give you my best advice, but it sounds like you should have rolled a sin. As a BM, what gear you wear is simply going to be somewhat situational at endgame.

_Perses_ - Lost City

MrKnuckuls - Sanctuary wrote: »

Thats a lot of coin to still be inferior to r9 simply because you don't want to switch gear out. I really don't mean to sound rude, I'm simply trying to give you my best advice, but it sounds like you should have rolled a sin. As a BM, what gear you wear is simply going to be somewhat situational at endgame.

True, which is why I have a lvl 100 sin alt that is 4.0, but my issue with the full r9 game plan is the fact that I lose out (in some set-ups) upwards up 4k worth of magic defense (had some set-ups that I'm not sure how I got where it was 5k), just got gain 5 extra defense lvls over the second set-up and be 3 less than the first set-up.


With the first one, when i equip the r9 axe, i'd go up to 73 (or 78..didn't look too closely) in attack lvls while still having 28 def lvls, and be able to keep 5.0 with just that set by switching to the claws.



Hurm @_@....I hate complication within set-ups around my bm >.<...So many headaches while trying to figure out which gear I want more or less T_T

Maelael - Heavens Tear

_Perses_ - Lost City wrote: »

I already have a my bm at 5.0 +10 w/ lvl 11 dragons. These are two set-ups I'm looking at for keeping 5.0 w/o having to constantly switch gear like a madman.

I have five and five hotkeys (10 total) I use to switch gear, plus the one for my pole.

If you kinda put it organized in whatever mental order you think works for you, it may be okay - I can switch the stuff really fast.

Not Keyed______F Keys
CE____________Spark
Axe___________Autoattack
HF____________Int Chest
R9 Chest_______Int Legs
R9 Legs________Int Arms
R9 Arms________Int Boots
R9 Boots________Claws

Thats what I have setup. I also have my Claws in my 2 key and my Axe in my 3 key. Really I could eliminate the weapons in my F bars, but I like to see them visually.

Things I do:

I run around in R9, and when I need to aps something down, I hit F1-F7 or F3-F7 to go APS.

While APS starting on a boss, I hit F1, then run down the CE, Axe, HF List, and then hit my 2 key and then F2 key to go back to claws.

Going from APS to R9 is a bit slower, as I have to click 4 with my mouse, but usually thats during a slight rest period anyways. Still only takes me like literally, 3-5 seconds as opposed to the instant switch of the F keys.

_Perses_ - Lost City

Maelael - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I have five and five hotkeys (10 total) I use to switch gear, plus the one for my pole.

If you kinda put it organized in whatever mental order you think works for you, it may be okay - I can switch the stuff really fast.

Not Keyed______F Keys
CE____________Spark
Axe___________Autoattack
HF____________Int Chest
R9 Chest_______Int Legs
R9 Legs________Int Arms
R9 Arms________Int Boots
R9 Boots________Claws

Thats what I have setup. I also have my Claws in my 2 key and my Axe in my 3 key. Really I could eliminate the weapons in my F bars, but I like to see them visually.

Things I do:

I run around in R9, and when I need to aps something down, I hit F1-F7 or F3-F7 to go APS.

While APS starting on a boss, I hit F1, then run down the CE, Axe, HF List, and then hit my 2 key and then F2 key to go back to claws.

Going from APS to R9 is a bit slower, as I have to click 4 with my mouse, but usually thats during a slight rest period anyways. Still only takes me like literally, 3-5 seconds as opposed to the instant switch of the F keys.

I'll edit in a screenshot of my hotkeys when I get home in a few hours from work so you can give me a hand with what might work on the bars....but I got so much junk I use and free spaces left for apoc's or other items that finding the right spot to put something gives me a headache at certain times >.<''

ShadowsFlame - Raging Tide

I thought u weren't gonna r9 =P
I would suggest not to use any r9 gears except axe and ring on ur 5aps gears.
U loose like 4k m defense for 5 defense levels and 1k p defense, which imo is not worth it.
btw loose the dex like this =P http://pwcalc.com/85cf3bcfb4e351d8 b:bye

_Perses_ - Lost City

ShadowsFlame - Raging Tide wrote: »

I thought u weren't gonna r9 =P
I would suggest not to use any r9 gears except axe and ring on ur 5aps gears.
U loose like 4k m defense for 5 defense levels and 1k p defense, which imo is not worth it.
btw loose the dex like this =P http://pwcalc.com/85cf3bcfb4e351d8 b:bye

lol it's why I said in the second one: "Build i'm currently working towards"

I was just wanting a comparasion to the two :P

_Mg_Zr - Heavens Tear

I would personally go for the second one but thats because its the same set up im getting except for the chest and ornies.

Maelael - Heavens Tear

Perses wheres my screen shot :P

Mg, did you end up coming back to HT?

_Perses_ - Lost City

Maelael - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Perses wheres my screen shot :P

Mg, did you end up coming back to HT?

Shall have shortly



Gotta bring up client and take the SS :<


*EDIT*: Maelael:



Hopefully the IMG tags work....if not it should revert to the URL bbcode and make it a link.

Maelael - Heavens Tear

_Perses_ - Lost City wrote: »

Shall have shortly



Gotta bring up client and take the SS :<


*EDIT*: Maelael:



Hopefully the IMG tags work....if not it should revert to the URL bbcode and make it a link.

Holy god where to begin.

First, all those skills (sword, pole come to mind) that you dont/rarely/never use, please get rid of them.

Second, you're not a big enough apoc addict.

But really, down to business:

1. Which skills/weapons/armor do you need for instant go? Like skills you use all the time, want to be able to quickly access and hit, or gear you want to be able to instantly switch into?

2. Do you hit keys with your left hand, right hand, or both? IE, play wise, do you find yourself always using your mouse and clicking number and F keys with your left hand? Or running with your left and taking your hand off your mouse to hit number and F keys?

3. Do you have any preference where the bars are on your screen? Like take a look at Dan's setup in his vids.

4. Do you have a preference on genie skills? IE - hotkeyed into the bars, or keep the genie window separate (Dan is once again an example).

5. Like I was stating above about the never used skills - please let me know which skills you NEVER use. And be reasonable about it. Like you have stream strike in there. I use that once a month tops so something random, and even on wurlord I just pull up the skill window to hit it. I mean, do you ever use 1 and 2 spark anymore either?

6. Do you need your genies hotkeyed? I personally just open my bag and hit it. One key and a click, I never need to actually switch them in an instant given you can't do it in battle.

7. Also with skills - consider some skills that are good, but rarely used because you could be utilizing that time/spark better elsewhere.

8. Finally, consider any common skill combos you use. Especially in places like trials, nirvana, pvp.

I'll try and screen shot my PvE and PvP setups tonight to explain my methodology/thinking as well. Part of it is comfort but most of it is organizational thinking.

_Perses_ - Lost City

Maelael - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Holy god where to begin.

First, all those skills (sword, pole come to mind) that you dont/rarely/never use, please get rid of them.

Second, you're not a big enough apoc addict.

But really, down to business:

1. Which skills/weapons/armor do you need for instant go? Like skills you use all the time, want to be able to quickly access and hit, or gear you want to be able to instantly switch into?
Skill wise I mainly need my roar of the pride, heaven's flame, triple spark, auto-attack emote, dragon bane, bolt of tyreasuss, smack, aeolian blade, drake bash, GS, DBB, fissure, highland cleave, cyclone heel, shadowless kick, drake's ray, fan of flames, drake's sweep, both run skills, bell, both marrows, both leaps, Sutra, Mo Zuan Taunt. As for weapon and armor....I have no armor on hotkeys atm. Weapons I have my bow, my axe, my claws. Will have a pole once I get another debuff pole. Emote wise: Fly, Super-speed fly.

2. Do you hit keys with your left hand, right hand, or both? IE, play wise, do you find yourself always using your mouse and clicking number and F keys with your left hand? Or running with your left and taking your hand off your mouse to hit number and F keys?
Usually using my mouse to spam click on any skills that are not placed on my 1-9 or F1-F8 keys themselves.

3. Do you have any preference where the bars are on your screen? Like take a look at Dan's setup in his vids.
I like my BM's bars how they are right now :>....any where else and it messes me up massively.

4. Do you have a preference on genie skills? IE - hotkeyed into the bars, or keep the genie window separate (Dan is once again an example).
HOTKEYED, HOTKEYED, HOTKEYED! Without that I would get killed way to much via magic classes (along with a ton of other situations <_<)

5. Like I was stating above about the never used skills - please let me know which skills you NEVER use. And be reasonable about it. Like you have stream strike in there. I use that once a month tops so something random, and even on wurlord I just pull up the skill window to hit it. I mean, do you ever use 1 and 2 spark anymore either?
Whole sword path and basically the starter skills (Tiger Maw, Draw blood)

6. Do you need your genies hotkeyed? I personally just open my bag and hit it. One key and a click, I never need to actually switch them in an instant given you can't do it in battle.
I have them hotkeyed mainly because if I didn't I would end-up forgetting I had them and my zeal has one skill on it I really, really, love using against r9 casters :>

7. Also with skills - consider some skills that are good, but rarely used because you could be utilizing that time/spark better elsewhere.
Uhm.....No clue ._.

8. Finally, consider any common skill combos you use. Especially in places like trials, nirvana, pvp.
I haven't done trails in a long time but usually it was just Stun -> dragons -> aoe like mad.
PvP....Hard to say cause I usually go for the stunlock and aps method on a lot of classes, but when I fight to kill I usually have my axe out so...I really don't know
Nirvana....Uhm...Usually it's 399 chi -> dragon bane -> demon bell -> aps boss for 50 chi -> triple spark -> F7 for axe + F4 for cloud erupt -> heaven's flame + F6 for claws -> aps. That is for like any ampable boss I can use it on, other wise it's just triple spark -> F7 + cloud erupt -> Heaven's flame +F6 -> aps. But beyond these two combo's I don't really do many other in NV.

I'll try and screen shot my PvE and PvP setups tonight to explain my methodology/thinking as well. Part of it is comfort but most of it is organizational thinking.

lol...majority of my pots are in the bank <_<...


Answers are in red, and yes it's a lot of text <

SpazzMcAps - Harshlands

id rather have 2 peices of lunar vana and two peices of TT vana considering 4 peices doesnt have bonus

_Perses_ - Lost City

SpazzMcAps - Harshlands wrote: »

id rather have 2 peices of lunar vana and two peices of TT vana considering 4 peices doesnt have bonus

I'm not doing 4 pieces o.O....


I'm doing: TT NV Helm, Pants, Boots, Wrists, Cape so I get the 5 piece bonus. Then the r8 chest with two -.05 on it for 3.33 w/ massive defense.

_Mg_Zr - Heavens Tear

Maelael - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Perses wheres my screen shot :P

Mg, did you end up coming back to HT?

yeah i am just waiting for it to download 5.2 Gb @ an average speed of 250kb/s is a long time but im getting there and looking forward to coming back. Maybe we will run into eachother in bh or something lol

SpazzMcAps - Harshlands

Your first one had. 4 pieces

_Perses_ - Lost City

SpazzMcAps - Harshlands wrote: »

Your first one had. 4 pieces

Ohhh the first one...yeah that is the comparasion one <_<


The second one is what I am actually going for, i just wanted the comparasion of the two as a possbile thing.

Hurrdurr - Lothranis

Lul .

Maelael - Heavens Tear

So...I realize Im **** and forgot to SS my PvP/TW Setup. It is similar, Ill do my best to describe it.

*Disclaimer: My setup is in no way, at all pro. Nor am I pro. I'm just isolating my spatial thought pattern to try and help Teh Perses out a bit.

http://i41.tinypic.com/2najq15.jpg

So we'll start with how I play

- I tend to utilize the number keys 1-3, sometimes 4, with my left hand. Sometimes I'll hit other ones, but usually its a quick-hit thing with them.
-Same with the F keys, except in this case it is F1 & F2, separately and together. If I am in Axe, I will F3-F6 my way into APS quickly.
-I always think top down, and left to right. Its natural for most of us to think that culturally, it keeps you in the mindset.

APS: Aps Tree is pretty self explanatory. Spark, Autoattack, and put on APS gear when needed. Claws are there if Im manually picking so I dont forget (and a visual reminder). F8 is outta habit.

Amp Tree: This is for when Im in APS gear, Usually I'll Spark, CE, Axes, HF, then hit 2, F2 and go to town on bosses. Sword Cyclone is there because its in the middle of all my "Ultimates" so I dont forget I have it - Been using it to get past IG, and apparently purge pole may proc through it. Next section is switching to R9. It's right next to the APS setup (just down further). Once again, visual reminder as well when Im checking what gear I have on - I can quickly glance wtf is on.

Pole Tree: Similar to Amp Tree. Difference is I have bell at the top (more out of habit), and GS is right next to HF. If Im rotating the two debuffs, I like the weapon selection and debuff in the same place. This makes it easy to time them every 30 seconds, and right next to eachother allows me to watch their clocks. Axe, HF, Claws, Cyclone Kick, Pole, GS, Claws, Cyclone Kick (repeat until high HP thingy in Trials is dead)

Interrupt: Although Ive used shadowless kick about...2 times since December, I refuse to get rid of it. I have the demon version but haven't decided if I wanna learn it or not.

Assisted Movement: The grouping is more comfort than actual progression, but works for me in PvE and TW.

So the number keys are divided into attack and defense really, save the AOE pattern.

Left side:
Axe Burst & Axe Burst Macros: I've been taught to Axe Burst (PvP mostly) in that pattern. From left to right on the macros are the lengths to match the stun lock. Nails: Drake Ray, Drake Sweep, Fan. (Roar) Teeth: Drake Ray, Drake Sweep, Fan, Tiger. (DB) Flamey Skull: Drake Ray->Aeolian Blade. (all out) I have no idea if I will keep these or not, change their order, who knows. Im still learning a lot, and I keep them all singly hotkeyed to watch their cooldown to change my mind in order of hits.

Conditional Ranges/Spark: Kinda self explanatory. Alpha Male & Earthflame become Ocean's Edge and Whirlwind in PvP/TW setup.

Initial Attack/AOE & Weapon Switches: While Im clicking AOEs and other **** Ill switch between Fists and Axe ALOT. So I keep them hotkeyed. On all my toons my initial attack/autoattack is my 1 key - so cyclone being the speed buff is what I attack singles with. This works in double - Roar & HF is in cooldown, I will 2-1-3 to aoe with cyclone and go back to the rest of the aoes.

AOE Tree: Just the natural progression to me. Stun, Amp, AOE brains out.

This skill bar I have a change for with the ` key for PvP. It becomes: Drake Bash, Leap Forward, Leap Back, Roar, some random skill Im experimenting with (lately, Aeolian Blade), and then the same as my PvE aoes. That and the anti kiting skills is all I change for PvP/TW atm. I'm on defense squad, so most of my duty is survive, stun lots, HF lots, and kill DDs and Healers.

Right Side:
Conditional Defense: Self explanatory. Although I only really use the charms for PvP/TW.
Movement: Also a duh.
Immunes & Heals: I used to also have stone turtle orbs here, but I stopped using them EVER. I may remove Sutra Orbs one day, I dunno.

This is what I use personally. Through process of elimination, these are the most common Skills, Pots, etc. Balance stays on the genie cause I use it so rarely and Im usually utilizing the genie energy for other skills. Same with stuff like Bolt, Dragon Bane, Stream Strike, DBB, etc...theyre used so rarely, I can just open up the skill window and hit them real fast during those weird times. It's not that they are not useful...just usually in 99.99% of situations I feel Id be best utilizing other skills.

Few more follow ups Perses:

In #1: I mean mostly that you need to have quick, quick access to - ie instant switches, the timing is super important it happens NOW. Pick 17.

Overall: Give some more thought to combos, and what you really don't use, and what you use the most. Because if were gonna completely **** up your hotkeys we wanna make sure its best bang for your buck as you're gonna be essentially...relearning to play. I have the same issue as TheDan, I stare at my hotkeys for like 30 mins trying to figure out whats gonna feel natural, be organized, and work for me anytime I need to make a change.

Maelael - Heavens Tear

_Mg_Zr - Heavens Tear wrote: »

yeah i am just waiting for it to download 5.2 Gb @ an average speed of 250kb/s is a long time but im getting there and looking forward to coming back. Maybe we will run into eachother in bh or something lol

Sounds great man, I think I grouped with you with some of my alts or Maelael way back in the day, hit me up.

_Perses_ - Lost City

Maelael - Heavens Tear wrote: »

-Snipped down after having read it all x.x-
Few more follow ups Perses:

In #1: I mean mostly that you need to have quick, quick access to - ie instant switches, the timing is super important it happens NOW. Pick 17.

Overall: Give some more thought to combos, and what you really don't use, and what you use the most. Because if were gonna completely **** up your hotkeys we wanna make sure its best bang for your buck as you're gonna be essentially...relearning to play. I have the same issue as TheDan, I stare at my hotkeys for like 30 mins trying to figure out whats gonna feel natural, be organized, and work for me anytime I need to make a change.

1.) Ah, well....It's kinda hard as the majority of my skills are placed where they are based on the set-up from my BM on heaven's tear....Though it might just be me, I find the current set-up I have works out very well for me. (Last time I tried to change **** I got so lost I died to a lvl 89 sin who triple sparked me while I was looking for my claws...)

As for combo's and macro's....beyond triple spark I really hate to use any macro's at all on my BM as I feel they limit me way to much to what I actually want to do. I enjoy the freedom of being able to randomly click on skills as I need, instead of spamming a macro that may or may not work....

Maelael - Heavens Tear

_Perses_ - Lost City wrote: »

1.) Ah, well....It's kinda hard as the majority of my skills are placed where they are based on the set-up from my BM on heaven's tear....Though it might just be me, I find the current set-up I have works out very well for me. (Last time I tried to change **** I got so lost I died to a lvl 89 sin who triple sparked me while I was looking for my claws...)

As for combo's and macro's....beyond triple spark I really hate to use any macro's at all on my BM as I feel they limit me way to much to what I actually want to do. I enjoy the freedom of being able to randomly click on skills as I need, instead of spamming a macro that may or may not work....

Give some thought to the 17, and be prepared for change. I tend to go to FF, or do random dailies and play around with my new hotkey setup till I get used to it.

Yea macros aint for everyone, and I may delete the three I have. Combos are a different story.

Regardless, if you feel you dont want to change - thats cool. But Ive at least provided an example of different organizational thinking for food for thought.

_Perses_ - Lost City

Maelael - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Give some thought to the 17, and be prepared for change. I tend to go to FF, or do random dailies and play around with my new hotkey setup till I get used to it.

Yea macros aint for everyone, and I may delete the three I have. Combos are a different story.

Regardless, if you feel you dont want to change - thats cool. But Ive at least provided an example of different organizational thinking for food for thought.

Yeah, I don't know if I will change the set-up but I may remove some items from the hotkeys as I see I don't use or need them and re-organize slightly.

but yeah, combo's are pretty standard on a BM it's just for me I tend to spam keys for familiar comob's that unfamiliar ones x3.

_Nerox_ - Dreamweaver

Why not R8 boots with -int, better def and +1200HP for 2xpices.

Oh yea...there is no damascene ores...b:surrender