Fail Sins Everywhere!

Angel_Spawn - Sanctuary

Empu - Sanctuary wrote: »

b:sad The day I made a fish-toon, all hope was gone for me.



b:kiss Love you too

b:chuckle You know what i`m talking about, the kind that needs stealth in order to kill smb in addition to already way OP control skills and insane dmg, yet it`s funny to see a lot of them die then blame others for their failure.

NightLace_ - Sanctuary

Aquireis - Lost City wrote: »

well its good to see a sin that knows what skills are used for. I know a few BM's and sins who will pop AD follow by maze steps or WoB to avoid the next coming stun and such.

Too bad deep sting is a sleep skill which AD resists, throatcut would be a better choice first. :P

NightLace_ - Sanctuary

Empu - Sanctuary wrote: »

b:sad The day I made a fish-toon, all hope was gone for me.



b:kiss Love you too

b:kissb:dirty Empuuu

NightLace_ - Sanctuary

EighthKnight - Sanctuary wrote: »

This. Is one of the hugest reason I went sage. The other part being that sage is way more OP if you don't play it like an idiot APS'er.

Also I HATE when a stealth squad won't take me because I'm sage. -_- And also when people say I suck at PVP because I'm sage. I suck at PVP because I suck at PVP.
Also, I went into a squad and the veno rage quit because she didn't want a sin in the squad. **** on all the dumb *** sins who give the good ones a bad rep.

I was fccing to 100 when stealth squads just started-ish. :P From one sage sin to another, it was funny watching them deny me, but invite me when i said i had sage bp. LOL Then id be the only alive in the squad fighting the bosses while their noob butts died.
I'll admit though, there were more good sins than fail ones, but most of the times it was the ones that denied me for being sage that died the quickest :P

Olbaze - Sanctuary

NightLace_ - Sanctuary wrote: »

Too bad deep sting is a sleep skill which AD resists, throatcut would be a better choice first. :P

Now that's certainly strange, because I sure did put that sin in Cube to sleep with Deep Sting yesterday. Could have been just miraculous timing with it, though.

Personally, I haven't gone through nearly as much **** as I figured I'd get for being a Sage. A few times I've had to facepalm at Demon sins for things like:
1. Apparently me insisting on my Sage BP over their Demon BP means my DPS must suck since I "need" Sage BP to survive.
2. A few sins have had a habit of overbuffing with Demon BP during boss fights for the evasion buff for some reason
3. Plenty of times I've been admitted to that the only reason I'm in the squad is Sage BP.

looken

_Bloody_Fox_ - Sanctuary wrote: »

But all in all r8 sins are usually garbage!b:pleased

i say those who got R8 sin in pvp know better then those G13 barriers sins - in pvp. when they are running up to a barb or something with their mid-refined barrier thorns and think that it actaully will hurt them just makes me laugh.

Xainou - Sanctuary

Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »

1. Apparently me insisting on my Sage BP over their Demon BP means my DPS must suck since I "need" Sage BP to survive.

People are bigger idiots than I thought. lol
Maybe it's their dps and manners that suck big time if they feel like taking a sage sin only for the bp...

I can't say I had too much **** either. Or maybe that's because I'm already used to it since my main is a mystic. The things you get to hear people believe your class is... sheesh. lol Sometimes it's just easier to find a smarter squad than go with a pack of ignorant idiots.

Kiiria - Raging Tide

I'm gonna revert my 4base demon sin to TT90... Show people that a sin played well with shet gear can still kill...
I once did a TW with level 15 NPC daggers on accident xD Was using them for practice duels with a friend right before and forgot to switch back to R8... Sad part was I was still getting kills xD

Kiiria - Raging Tide

EighthKnight - Sanctuary wrote: »

And also when people say I suck at PVP because I'm sage.

Sage sin played well is by far better than demon (I have one of each, both using account stashed gears, only real difference is slight mistake on base stats, and R8 top (slightly lower refines on the sage's and currently yet to be sharded) and even with the disadvantageous situation for the sage being slightly under my sin's stats (too much str base) and lower quality chest, she's still more powerful PvP than my demon.

Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »

1. Apparently me insisting on my Sage BP over their Demon BP means my DPS must suck since I "need" Sage BP to survive.
As a demon sin I sage BP... I can tank without it, but I like having it just in case something goes wrong.
2. A few sins have had a habit of overbuffing with Demon BP during boss fights for the evasion buff for some reason
For anything PvP the eva bonus from demon BP is useless. IJS. Stupid people are stupid.
3. Plenty of times I've been admitted to that the only reason I'm in the squad is Sage BP.

Ehhh... Unless you're 4base (assuming you're talking about Nirvy squads) that doesn't surprise me... But with sage Dagger Devo, Power Dash, 4base + Windshield = 5, you'd be = APS to a demon sin (not for full spark, but use WS after PD combo and you'd be close), have OMFGWTF crit-rate, only disadvantage is the Demon Wolf Emblem (which IDK many sins who have sage OR demon, or even use wolf emblem anymore, shame really)

BASICALLY what I'm saying to this point, is a good sage can = or out DPS a demon sin.

Olbaze - Sanctuary

Kiiria - Raging Tide wrote: »

Ehhh... Unless you're 4base (assuming you're talking about Nirvy squads) that doesn't surprise me... But with sage Dagger Devo, Power Dash, 4base + Windshield = 5, you'd be = APS to a demon sin (not for full spark, but use WS after PD combo and you'd be close), have OMFGWTF crit-rate, only disadvantage is the Demon Wolf Emblem (which IDK many sins who have sage OR demon, or even use wolf emblem anymore, shame really)

Well I'm 3.33 base, use Windshield and got all Sage skills except Headhunt, Subsea and Shadow Teleport.

So yeah, since I actually use Sage Power Dash, I am rather close with a 5.0 Demon sin. The biggest "disadvantage" I have is that I don't use a Jones.

With Windshield and Sage PD, we get this for my average DPS:
Average damage from crit:
(8/30)*1.984 + (22/30)*1.384 = 1.544

So, my DPS comes to:
DPH * 1.544 * 4 = DPH * 6.176

A 5.0 Demon would get:
DPH * 1.384 * 5 = DPH * 6.92

This is still assuming both have and use their respective cultis Wolf Emblem which isn't too likely for the Demon sin. And I have seen very few Demon sins "bother" with Power Dash.

Kiiria - Raging Tide

Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »

Well I'm 3.33 base, use Windshield and got all Sage skills except Headhunt, Subsea and Shadow Teleport.

So yeah, since I actually use Sage Power Dash, I am rather close with a 5.0 Demon sin. The biggest "disadvantage" I have is that I don't use a Jones.

With Windshield and Sage PD, we get this for my average DPS:
Average damage from crit:
(8/30)*1.984 + (22/30)*1.384 = 1.544

So, my DPS comes to:
DPH * 1.544 * 4 = DPH * 6.176

A 5.0 Demon would get:
DPH * 1.384 * 5 = DPH * 6.92

This is still assuming both have and use their respective cultis Wolf Emblem which isn't too likely for the Demon sin. And I have seen very few Demon sins "bother" with Power Dash.

I always PD combo on my demon along with a couple of genie skills (situational based on squad vs solo and who has what debuffs) >.> Sometimes I have another skill I'll throw in if the boss is appropriate for it... But that my friend is a trade secret.

It's a shame sins don't take advantage of all of our skills to their maximum potential.

Also don't forget that sage Dagger Devo is a must for sage sin, and almost every sage sin gets it at 92, whereas most demon sins don't get demon at all. Even despite the higher damage rate of sage, demon does give a boost to weapon damage from level 10, and 2% extra crit rate (not a WHOLE lot, but it adds up) Sad when a G13 sin can hold aggro from a R9 entirely based on ability to play well vs. spark AA... >.>

EighthKnight - Sanctuary

NightLace_ - Sanctuary wrote: »

LOL Then id be the only alive in the squad fighting the bosses while their noob butts died.

Yes! Haha. Some squads have had the nerve to tell me they don't need my help, but would I still buff them?
BP really does nothing for a demon sin. Sage BP isn't actually THAT great. Like it helps, but the real advantage in sage is having dagger devotion and skills that actually do something more than stun lock someone.

My favorite people in squads are the ones who are supposedly tanking (but are 2 levels lower than you), and they ask you to do shades... but then decide to help you last minute and pull all the mobs and bark at me to AOE.

Ahh, no. **** you I'm stealthing because I'm not suicidal.

And some sins can be dicks, but most of the time they respect me. The people who urg me are the ones who haven't looked into the culti's of sins at all and just automatically judge demon as the one they want. It's like there's no possible way my DPH could match the DPS of a demon. b:angry HELLO, why the **** are you in the squad then?! Don't see you dealing 40k! (The same one that barked at me was really proud of her 10k crits.)


Rage at the haters >_>

Paulrogers - Harshlands

Look your all talking about aps and gear... this is why most sins suck people get gear and are like why am i dying o.o someone actualy asked me how come he always dies but he has full +10 dots sharded etc >_> unless your fighting a HA, sins dont need to use auto atk aka aps are pointless, sins are about timing and knowing what to do ... your aps are for pve.

NightLace_ - Sanctuary

theres a sin on our server, with really amazing gear, hes demon, 5.0, and has G15 nirvana daggers with int and GoF

BUT OMG

he dies so fast lol...

Its like bp has no effect on him seriously.

Even the 10k+ hp does nothing.

That right there proves that aps isnt everything.

b:laugh

Sarrafeline - Sanctuary

looken wrote: »

i say those who got R8 sin in pvp know better then those G13 barriers sins - in pvp. when they are running up to a barb or something with their mid-refined barrier thorns and think that it actaully will hurt them just makes me laugh.

Hmm really? I have ended more than a few barbs with G13 daggers. Seekers too. Annnnd... BM's as well.

R9 Archers are harder, but it is possible. DoT build Archers are actually pretty squishy, Vit shard archers... Eh. I don't think I could handle going up against Asty, but Asty has +12 R9, I don't even have all of my gear with final shards yet, nor do I have my refines yet. b:sad

Geshwur - Raging Tide

NightLace_ - Sanctuary wrote: »

theres a sin on our server, with really amazing gear, hes demon, 5.0, and has G15 nirvana daggers with int and GoF

BUT OMG

he dies so fast lol...

Its like bp has no effect on him seriously.

Even the 10k+ hp does nothing.

That right there proves that aps isnt everything.

b:laugh

With GoF the 10K+ HP actually hurts you more. 5% of 10K is 500, 6K it's only 300. That means that GoF is going to do more "reflect" damage with more HP, meaning BP will make up for ONLY the zerk (if that) and if you do miss on a zerk, you get no BP for that, but still lose HP (high accuracy, but it can happen) now if you're zerking a LOT (5APS, it happens a LOT) then you won't be able to keep up with just BP cause BP only makes up for zerk, not the bosses hits, meaning you essentially kill yourself. The exception (of course) is R9 when refined highly because the high base damage + attack levels means you hit a hell of a lot harder, meaning BP makes up for more than just the zerk of that hit, but any kind of GoF with 4/5APS impacts your survivability more negatively when you HP goes up.

Nahleanna - Sanctuary

_Bloody_Fox_ - Sanctuary wrote: »

I really wonder what percentage of sins really fail at their class. I pk often and all I have is r8. I kill r8 sins who jump me ALL the time. Occasionally I will fight one that actually knows how to survive and defeat me, But all in all r8 sins are usually garbage! I used to really hate how OP they are, but now after killing so many who just plain suck, It's really not that big of a deal!b:pleased

i would say that less then 2% of the sins out there know how there toon is sposed to be played all i see is APS hits and red sparks i never see them useing there skills

Aquireis - Lost City

Nahleanna - Sanctuary wrote: »

i would say that less then 2% of the sins out there know how there toon is sposed to be played all i see is APS hits and red sparks i never see them useing there skills

lol like I said earlier all I see is sins use aps for everything. and I actually got the rare chance to see a high 8x sin questing that knew how to use his skills today. on;y know he was 8x cause I gave him some barby buffs. but yeah it was awesome to see him using skills to crush his mobs.

XxZavxX - Raging Tide

?????

Olbaze - Sanctuary

Nahleanna - Sanctuary wrote: »

i would say that less then 2% of the sins out there know how there toon is sposed to be played all i see is APS hits and red sparks i never see them useing there skills

Well sadly you can get rather far in the game without ever having to use most of your skills.

For example, most of the locking skills (Headhunt, Tackling Slash, Deep Sting, Throatcut) are utterly useless in PvE and tons of others are only "useful", not "necessary".

And of course, the primary endgame farming instance, Nirvana, doesn't have bosses that do anything funny. You can pretty much get through Nirvana with nothing but Demon Spark and auto-attack.

I see plenty of soon-to-be Demons who pretty much go "Well, I'll get Dagger Devotion and no other skills". And then they get their 5 aps gear and farm until they're utterly bored.

NightLace_ - Sanctuary

Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »

Well sadly you can get rather far in the game without ever having to use most of your skills.

For example, most of the locking skills (Headhunt, Tackling Slash, Deep Sting, Throatcut) are utterly useless in PvE and tons of others are only "useful", not "necessary".

And of course, the primary endgame farming instance, Nirvana, doesn't have bosses that do anything funny. You can pretty much get through Nirvana with nothing but Demon Spark and auto-attack.

I see plenty of soon-to-be Demons who pretty much go "Well, I'll get Dagger Devotion and no other skills". And then they get their 5 aps gear and farm until they're utterly bored.

I must say I disagree.

Headhunt, Tackling Slash, Deep Sting, Throatcut.
All four of those skills are from from useless in PvE.
Sure, at higher levels like 100+ they aren't used often anymore, but before that I used them all the time.

Throatcut interrupts channeling, and sure it may cost a spark but it helps on some bosses.
Tackling slash is so useful on mobs that run away.
Deepsting is good for a running magic mob, if you deep sting it real quick it does a really fast sleep attack so you can stun it easier and/or tackling slash.

Headhunt is a stun skill that hits really freaking hard!
How is that not useful? xD

Islashyou - Dreamweaver

NightLace_ - Sanctuary wrote: »

I must say I disagree.


Throatcut interrupts channeling

i lol'd

NightLace_ - Sanctuary

Islashyou - Dreamweaver wrote: »

i lol'd

hahah ya its rare but it still does :O
b:chuckle it was awesome in BH69 squads

Geshwur - Raging Tide

Sad to notice this, but nobody has mentioned the many uses of Rib Strike... With demon I can tank Steelation's APS in 3-1 if I have bubble (dunno about 3-2 or 3-3, prolly not). It's GREAT on most bosses, can allow a sin to solo bosses that would be far from soloable without it.

AND PvP against APSers it's GREAT. IDK how many times I've pissed BMs and sins off with it. Lol. TBH I find it more fun than stunlock on APSers, and a bit easier with their anti-stun skills that BMs at least know how to use. Had sins ask me why they weren't able to stun-lock me and why their APS went down the drain... >.> Then ask what Maze Steps and Rib Strike are... -.-
Selling FC is ruining PWI, BUT I need coin, so Sorry guys

Sarrafeline - Sanctuary

Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »

Well sadly you can get rather far in the game without ever having to use most of your skills.

For example, most of the locking skills (Headhunt, Tackling Slash, Deep Sting, Throatcut) are utterly useless in PvE and tons of others are only "useful", not "necessary".

And of course, the primary endgame farming instance, Nirvana, doesn't have bosses that do anything funny. You can pretty much get through Nirvana with nothing but Demon Spark and auto-attack.

I see plenty of soon-to-be Demons who pretty much go "Well, I'll get Dagger Devotion and no other skills". And then they get their 5 aps gear and farm until they're utterly bored.

Eh, once you get to a certain damage output, you don't even need spark for regular mobs. Then again, I haven't killed a regular mob before Morai on my sin in months.

NightLace_ - Sanctuary wrote: »

I must say I disagree.

Headhunt, Tackling Slash, Deep Sting, Throatcut.
All four of those skills are from from useless in PvE.
Sure, at higher levels like 100+ they aren't used often anymore, but before that I used them all the time.

Throatcut interrupts channeling, and sure it may cost a spark but it helps on some bosses.
Tackling slash is so useful on mobs that run away.
Deepsting is good for a running magic mob, if you deep sting it real quick it does a really fast sleep attack so you can stun it easier and/or tackling slash.

Headhunt is a stun skill that hits really freaking hard!
How is that not useful? xD

The cost of the skills makes them difficult to 'spam', making them ineffective control skills. Headhunt in PVP can oneshot some squishy players if you have good enough gear. But, once you've used it in PVE, if you are trying to play CC, it wears off and the skill is on CD.

Tackling Slash I use constantly. Free Chi, immobilize, and does a bit of damage.

Deep Sting has one and only one use for me: make something **** for a second so I can rebuff. It absolutely SUCKS as a control skill, simply because whatever you sleep 'wakes up' when you hit it next, or anyone else in your party for that matter. You don't get a mob that's asleep for 10 seconds, you get a mob that's asleep for 10 seconds until it takes damage again.

And Throatcut... I've leveled mine to Sage, but... I think I've used it a total of 20 times since my Sin got level 1. I don't really see the point of this skill, especially as a CC skill. Low APS sins have a better use for that chi, like Headhunt, high APS sins would be losing BP heals during the casting time of it... Channel interrupt isn't like in other games, where after you interrupt channeling, that skill can't be rechanneled for x amount of seconds, instead, the mob will instantly start channeling it again (or run the **** back and start channeling again).

edit" The other issue with Throatcut is that interrupting bosses channeling of magic skills actually builds a decent amount of aggro. This is fine if you're the tank, but if you are running with a poorly geared barb that can just barely hold aggro, you might end up pulling aggro anyway.

One skill that is actually quite necessary that I'm surprised didn't get mentioned here was Rib Strike. I built my sin to tank from the word 'go', and this skill has saved my bacon time and again. I have sage version now, so I tend not to use it in FCC as a starter attack anymore, but it can be quite useful in the right situations. Some bosses with magic and auto physical attacks can be made to be less 'nuke happy' if you use this on them, and makes the tank's job much easier.

NightLace_ - Sanctuary

Rib strike is a must, it doesnt even need to be mentioned :P

Sarrafeline - Sanctuary

Geshwur - Raging Tide wrote: »

With GoF the 10K+ HP actually hurts you more. 5% of 10K is 500, 6K it's only 300. That means that GoF is going to do more "reflect" damage with more HP, meaning BP will make up for ONLY the zerk (if that) and if you do miss on a zerk, you get no BP for that, but still lose HP (high accuracy, but it can happen) now if you're zerking a LOT (5APS, it happens a LOT) then you won't be able to keep up with just BP cause BP only makes up for zerk, not the bosses hits, meaning you essentially kill yourself. The exception (of course) is R9 when refined highly because the high base damage + attack levels means you hit a hell of a lot harder, meaning BP makes up for more than just the zerk of that hit, but any kind of GoF with 4/5APS impacts your survivability more negatively when you HP goes up.

Missed this... Yes, this is true. APS, though, isn't the only factor in this. My barb is a Demon Str build, and uses Zerk axes (TT90G). With 20k HP on a Vit build, I coudln't keep up with the 1k cost of Zerk. BP would pull maybe 60 HP. Going to the Str build, I went from 20k HP to 16k HP, and BP now pulls around 300 HP on a Zerk, 600 on a Zerk Crit. The low attack speed lets me stop and take action if I start missing (two Lunar rings with +50% accuracy, 80 dex with all my gear on) and I zerk anyway.

NightLace_ - Sanctuary wrote: »

Rib strike is a must, it doesnt even need to be mentioned :P

It should, because there are a lot of sins that don't even use it. Some don't even have it except at level 1...

NightLace_ - Sanctuary

Sarrafeline - Sanctuary wrote: »

Missed this... Yes, this is true. APS, though, isn't the only factor in this. My barb is a Demon Str build, and uses Zerk axes (TT90G). With 20k HP on a Vit build, I coudln't keep up with the 1k cost of Zerk. BP would pull maybe 60 HP. Going to the Str build, I went from 20k HP to 16k HP, and BP now pulls around 300 HP on a Zerk, 600 on a Zerk Crit. The low attack speed lets me stop and take action if I start missing (two Lunar rings with +50% accuracy, 80 dex with all my gear on) and I zerk anyway.



It should, because there are a lot of sins that don't even use it. Some don't even have it except at level 1...

rofl, well i was just commenting to the OP about those 4 specific skills, because he said they were totally useless for pve which they arent.

Honestly, ALL sin skills are good and should be looked at except twin strike xDDD

I got all my skills sage

Olbaze - Sanctuary

NightLace_ - Sanctuary wrote: »

I must say I disagree.

Headhunt, Tackling Slash, Deep Sting, Throatcut.
All four of those skills are from from useless in PvE.
Sure, at higher levels like 100+ they aren't used often anymore, but before that I used them all the time.

Throatcut interrupts channeling, and sure it may cost a spark but it helps on some bosses.
Tackling slash is so useful on mobs that run away.
Deepsting is good for a running magic mob, if you deep sting it real quick it does a really fast sleep attack so you can stun it easier and/or tackling slash.

Headhunt is a stun skill that hits really freaking hard!
How is that not useful? xD

Throatcut has too long a channeling for a channel interrupt and the silence makes it a waste against mobs. Plus, for channel interrupt, there's always Knife Throw.

As for Tackling Slash, I've mostly used it for chi. The argument about running mobs is valid, yes, but the frequency at which you meet mobs that actively run away isn't high enough to really call it useful.

Deep Sting... could be useful. I personally never liked it and it was one of the last skills I leveled.

Headhunt is a PvP skill. Single target stun is just about useless in PvE for a class like Assassin. Plus, it has a damn high cost.

All of them have uses, but the uses are limited and it's perfectly realistic for a person to go through the game without ever using them. For example, I never used Throatcut in PvE, I only started using it once I got it to Sage and started doing regular Cube of Fate. Similarly, the same is true of Deep Sting for me. If a person were to do quests until 40 and then start doing BH, the only place where they'd run into running mobs where it'd actually be an issue would be BH51.

Headhunt also has the weakness of being a 59 skill. On 59, a sin gets so many skills which are much more useful than Headhunt: Inner Harmony, Tidal Protection, Subsea and Power Dash, Shadow Teleport.

RageKill - Lost City

Rib strike for the win. If i attack an APS class its the second thing after initial stun. If they get a stun off on ya without rib strike they will just APS ya to death. Rib is fun!