Annoyed by Seekers

Beastyknight - Dreamweaver

So, I'm a blademaster (obviously) and i tend to do fc quite a bit, when we get to big room almost everytime, somebody says "we need a seeker" or "a seeker would be great" am i the only one who is SICK of hearing this. It was my job WAYY before the earthguard to be main aoe and now all of a sudden im nothing? seeker is the best way to go? no its not i dont spend 7m on my aoe just to be put down by a seeker. Any1 else hate this? i know i do

SpazzMcAps - Harshlands

as of now the bms only zhen sucks so that might be part of it, id rather have a barb than a seeker tbh

Jaabg - Sanctuary

Is it the pulling part or the dding part? Any class can pull the whole/half room, depends on who is going to tank them. If you can tank them, say so in squad.

Beastyknight - Dreamweaver

Jaabg - Sanctuary wrote: »

Is it the pulling part or the dding part? Any class can pull the whole/half room, depends on who is going to tank them. If you can tank them, say so in squad.

mostly the dd, but not just in big room any pull really. Its like our aoe's suddenly suck

Maelael - Heavens Tear

This brings me back in the day...

"We need a Barb"

"Look at my HP, I can pull."

"Okay. We need a seeker"

"No, we just need people with AOEs if you want them to die quicker."

"We need a seeker"

"How about this, I pull half the big room, solo it, you ****, the cleric/mystic puts out their AOE heals, I pull the other half, stun it once I get it to the group, we all aoe it, and watch it die."

"We need a seeker"

"You're ****." *finds another group*

You just hit level 80, welcome to your next 20 levels of pickup groups that will be 1/2 frustrating, 1/4 filled with alts, 1/4 fill with people you will Friend list and play with for months+.

The neatest things to have in a group are a Barb, Seeker, BM and Cleric. None of the four are needed, ever for FF.

Barbs are easily replaced by good HP BMs and Seekers for pulling and tanking. Even a well equipped Sin can Tank, and a good Psy can pull.

Seekers are easily replaced by anyone who can AOE. This means Wizards, Psys, BMs, and Archers. Even Sins, Clerics, Mystics, Barbs, and Venos contribute nicely. Many squads just rely on Seeker+HF to kill large pulls. After countless runs with just about every reasonable group makeup I can think of, if you stun and HF and hit your aoes - if everyone else AOEs, it works just fine.

BMs are nice for stuns and HF. But they are easily replaceable damage wise by another Sin or two, and a good barb or seeker that can hold aggro makes the Stun replaceable.

Clerics are easily replaced by mystics. If you encounter a mystic who says "I can't heal" or "Mystics aren't healers for FC" - leave.


You're going to encounter people who can't play their class. People who are extremely undergeared (+1 TT70 at level 90). You're going to find people who are snobs, people who can't adapt, and people who can't do FF without an ideal group makeup.

**** 'em. Go with what you can put together reasonably - Sin, Healer, Puller (you?), and whoever else. Learn to play with the other classes, adapt to playing with bad players or undergeared players, adapt to strange group makeups. You'll learn who to avoid and who to Friend list and make your own groups with. Strength through adversity, you'll get better at your class if every FC isn't a cakewalk.

SpazzMcAps - Harshlands

Maelael - Heavens Tear wrote: »

This brings me back in the day...

"We need a Barb"

"Look at my HP, I can pull."

"Okay. We need a seeker"

"No, we just need people with AOEs if you want them to die quicker."

"We need a seeker"

"How about this, I pull half the big room, solo it, you ****, the cleric/mystic puts out their AOE heals, I pull the other half, stun it once I get it to the group, we all aoe it, and watch it die."

"We need a seeker"

"You're ****." *finds another group*

You just hit level 80, welcome to your next 20 levels of pickup groups that will be 1/2 frustrating, 1/4 filled with alts, 1/4 fill with people you will Friend list and play with for months+.

The neatest things to have in a group are a Barb, Seeker, BM and Cleric. None of the four are needed, ever for FF.

Barbs are easily replaced by good HP BMs and Seekers for pulling and tanking. Even a well equipped Sin can Tank, and a good Psy can pull.

Seekers are easily replaced by anyone who can AOE. This means Wizards, Psys, BMs, and Archers. Even Sins, Clerics, Mystics, Barbs, and Venos contribute nicely. Many squads just rely on Seeker+HF to kill large pulls. After countless runs with just about every reasonable group makeup I can think of, if you stun and HF and hit your aoes - if everyone else AOEs, it works just fine.

BMs are nice for stuns and HF. But they are easily replaceable damage wise by another Sin or two, and a good barb or seeker that can hold aggro makes the Stun replaceable.

Clerics are easily replaced by mystics. If you encounter a mystic who says "I can't heal" or "Mystics aren't healers for FC" - leave.


You're going to encounter people who can't play their class. People who are extremely undergeared (+1 TT70 at level 90). You're going to find people who are snobs, people who can't adapt, and people who can't do FF without an ideal group makeup.

**** 'em. Go with what you can put together reasonably - Sin, Healer, Puller (you?), and whoever else. Learn to play with the other classes, adapt to playing with bad players or undergeared players, adapt to strange group makeups. You'll learn who to avoid and who to Friend list and make your own groups with. Strength through adversity, you'll get better at your class if every FC isn't a cakewalk.

that. was. beautiful!b:cry

Nochaelf - Lost City

awwwwwww~~~

That's mean~~~

b:sadb:cryb:sadb:cry

Sakubatou - Sanctuary

Well, it used to be barbs with BMs as the second "break-in-case-of-emergency" tanking option. Then paint came along and BMs became more of a tank, covering our lower hp with better damage and therefore better heals. Then seekers came along and took that second place tank option, but with aoe damage comparable to a BMs. What they excell at is they have similar hp to most BMs but higher defense levels so their paint heals mean more, making them better in this situation.

So, we can are more preferred in most instances. Better soloers. Have a better squad buff. Have a more versatile playstyle. Can stunlock their butts in pk till next week. Popular for Nirvana. Seekers love having us for buffs and demon HF... What do they have? FCC exp room vortex.

And seekers really are nice because a decent seeker can solo with buffs alone and captains removed starting around level 80 without a cleric. Barbs/Bms usually require a cleric so that's two people needed. I sell exp room and seekers are pretty nice because I can either WC for a cleric and a puller, or just a seeker. Also, too many idiot BM's "I can pull!" and they do... then run the mobs straight into bb without aggroing. If you don't like seekers replacing you as a better puller/tank in the FCC room then get more hp. I sell FCCs to too many BMs that show up 85+ with 4k hp.

Nochaelf - Lost City

Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »

Well, it used to be barbs with BMs as the second "break-in-case-of-emergency" tanking option. Then paint came along and BMs became more of a tank, covering our lower hp with better damage and therefore better heals. Then seekers came along and took that second place tank option, but with aoe damage comparable to a BMs. What they excell at is they have similar hp to most BMs but higher defense levels so their paint heals mean more, making them better in this situation.

So, we can are more preferred in most instances. Better soloers. Have a better squad buff. Have a more versatile playstyle. Can stunlock their butts in pk till next week. Popular for Nirvana. Seekers love having us for buffs and demon HF... What do they have? FCC exp room vortex.

And seekers really are nice because a decent seeker can solo with buffs alone and captains removed starting around level 80 without a cleric. Barbs/Bms usually require a cleric so that's two people needed. I sell exp room and seekers are pretty nice because I can either WC for a cleric and a puller, or just a seeker. Also, too many idiot BM's "I can pull!" and they do... then run the mobs straight into bb without aggroing. If you don't like seekers replacing you as a better puller/tank in the FCC room then get more hp. I sell FCCs to too many BMs that show up 85+ with 4k hp.

nice~~~~b:pleasedb:pleasedb:pleased

supertroyman1

Beastyknight - Dreamweaver wrote: »

So, I'm a blademaster (obviously) and i tend to do fc quite a bit, when we get to big room almost everytime, somebody says "we need a seeker" or "a seeker would be great" am i the only one who is SICK of hearing this. It was my job WAYY before the earthguard to be main aoe and now all of a sudden im nothing? seeker is the best way to go? no its not i dont spend 7m on my aoe just to be put down by a seeker. Any1 else hate this? i know i do

the reason most squads prefer a seeker is that vortex does more dmg on its own then a bm could ever hope to do with similer gear. this also allows for much easyer agro holding wich lets be honest every magic class would prefer. i have no dought that a bm could tank the pull with barb in the squad but after the stun weres off theres always the chance that uve been out dd'd and caster could take agro. especially in 80 squad when mobs dont usually die in like 6 secondes. so its not that u cant its just that its MUCH safer to have a seeker tank it. and if u can take agro from a vortex more power to ya

Nariin - Dreamweaver

To me it's annoying that seekers started to require free birgoom. I guess we been hearing "free bigroom for seeker" in WC too much and now they have a right for a free bigroom for the sake of their mighty unreplacable absolutely-needed-in-every-bigroom VORTEXb:shocked. Seekers aren't NEEDED, they just make things a bit faster.

When i was around 85 we were bm, seeker, cleric, mystic, archer and me (sin) in a bigroom (mobs+heads). Seeker refused to pay fee cause "its suppose to be free for seeker" (says who b:scorn) and left saying that we cant survive without him anyway. Then cleric left too, said he dont wanna be in "dead" squad.

But we did just FINE. No1 died and we were pretty fast. I think people just got too used to have a seeker for mobs.

Drunken_Chu - Dreamweaver

I've never had this problem.. Every squad I'm in tell me we need a Seeker OR a BM. I choose whichever pms me first and is willing to pay. I've been running on my fistomancer, I like to pull because I have 16k pdef in foxform, and then switch to human form and ult. It only does like 1k damage but the seal is greatly appreciated. If they are still alive I switch back to fox and myriad rainbow, enough get 0 armor or 0 magic defense at that point that its quickly over.

Maelael - Heavens Tear

supertroyman1 wrote: »

the reason most squads prefer a seeker is that vortex does more dmg on its own then a bm could ever hope to do with similer gear. this also allows for much easyer agro holding wich lets be honest every magic class would prefer. i have no dought that a bm could tank the pull with barb in the squad but after the stun weres off theres always the chance that uve been out dd'd and caster could take agro. especially in 80 squad when mobs dont usually die in like 6 secondes. so its not that u cant its just that its MUCH safer to have a seeker tank it. and if u can take agro from a vortex more power to ya

You must have played with or play a very nubby BM(s). I actually hear more complaints outta wizzies and psys that Seekers can't tank.

Mileage differs and all, but you're definitely the first person Ive ever seen say most of this.

jassyluv

Lol at this BM rage... when it comes to AoE tanking, seekers are built to tank it by far better and than BM could dream of....

sorry to say but a crappy geared seeker > an exspensive geared BM in FC/delta/trials more less anywhere there will be mass amount of mobs.

so squad with seeker in FC? everyone else just hang on for the ride... switch seeker for BM? cleric better be there with BB ready before that stun wears off...and everyone else get ready to work..


so yea ofc poeple want seekers over BMs, they work less, and have less worries of down time.

Ambisagrus - Lost City

jassyluv wrote: »

Lol at this BM rage... when it comes to AoE tanking, seekers are built to tank it by far better and than BM could dream of....

sorry to say but a crappy geared seeker > an exspensive geared BM in FC/delta/trials more less anywhere there will be mass amount of mobs.

so squad with seeker in FC? everyone else just hang on for the ride... switch seeker for BM? cleric better be there with BB ready before that stun wears off...and everyone else get ready to work..


so yea ofc poeple want seekers over BMs, they work less, and have less worries of down time.

lol @ fail troll from a idiot seeker stoneface.

FantasyFruit - Dreamweaver

No doubt seekers are better than bms for dealing damage in zhen, but I still could solo the big room pull on my bm with G12 gears. All my gears weren't even +5 when I first solo'd it. It all depends on how good the player is. BM is easy to play, but hard to master... where as any moron can press a button and sit there spinning.

Nariin - Dreamweaver

FantasyFruit - Dreamweaver wrote: »

BM is easy to play, but hard to master... where as any moron can press a button and sit there spinning.

Agreed.b:victory

Saethos - Raging Tide

supertroyman1 wrote: »

the reason most squads prefer a seeker is that vortex does more dmg on its own then a bm could ever hope to do with similer gear. this also allows for much easyer agro holding wich lets be honest every magic class would prefer. i have no dought that a bm could tank the pull with barb in the squad but after the stun weres off theres always the chance that uve been out dd'd and caster could take agro. especially in 80 squad when mobs dont usually die in like 6 secondes. so its not that u cant its just that its MUCH safer to have a seeker tank it. and if u can take agro from a vortex more power to ya

Holding Aggro with Calamity axes of blood since 82 and damn proud of it! Surviving every pull since 85 with Pan Gu's Giant Axe and also very proud of it! Having seekers ask how I could be tanking when they vortex since 8-- you get the point

jassyluv wrote: »

Lol at this BM rage... when it comes to AoE tanking, seekers are built to tank it by far better and than BM could dream of....

sorry to say but a crappy geared seeker > an exspensive geared BM in FC/delta/trials more less anywhere there will be mass amount of mobs.

so squad with seeker in FC? everyone else just hang on for the ride... switch seeker for BM? cleric better be there with BB ready before that stun wears off...and everyone else get ready to work..


so yea ofc poeple want seekers over BMs, they work less, and have less worries of down time.

Why do you care how much the BM works? It's not you...besides, it's hardly work.

Now, I've been in FC squads with seekers that said they'd rather I do the actual pull while they use a captain to set up a vortex and I pull them into the vortex...But then when I get there they laugh because I stubsparkHFed and kept aggro all to myself

then 93 hit and my sin friend hit 85. Hello epic duoing FC. Blue guys? No problem. Big room? Forget about it.




...What kinds of BMs have people been forced t squad with?

supertroyman1

Maelael - Heavens Tear wrote: »

You must have played with or play a very nubby BM(s). I actually hear more complaints outta wizzies and psys that Seekers can't tank.

Mileage differs and all, but you're definitely the first person Ive ever seen say most of this.

na most of my squads were filled with the glass cannon wizzis and psys and i was was a decent (non cash shopped) bm. theres only so much i can do before they take agro at the last seconde and die. but i also play a magic class and trust me i have that issue sometimes.

supertroyman1

Ambisagrus - Lost City wrote: »

lol @ fail troll from a idiot seeker stoneface.

way to not know what trolling means. good job

supertroyman1

Saethos - Raging Tide wrote: »

Holding Aggro with Calamity axes of blood since 82 and damn proud of it! Surviving every pull since 85 with Pan Gu's Giant Axe and also very proud of it! Having seekers ask how I could be tanking when they vortex since 8-- you get the point

lol i didnt say bms couldnt tank. i just sayd its much easier to sit there with a giant blender rather then all that work. as the person above me stated.

Saethos - Raging Tide

supertroyman1 wrote: »

lol i didnt say bms couldnt tank. i just sayd its much easier to sit there with a giant blender rather then all that work. as the person above me stated.

Tab > 1 > 3 > 4 > 5 > F1 > F2

SUCH HARD WORK OMG MY FINGERS HURT! QQ WHERE'S THE TYLENOL?

supertroyman1

Saethos - Raging Tide wrote: »

Tab > 1 > 3 > 4 > 5 > F1 > F2

SUCH HARD WORK OMG MY FINGERS HURT! QQ WHERE'S THE TYLENOL?

... now that was just a troll comment even u have to admit that

jabq

supertroyman1 wrote: »

... now that was just a troll comment even u have to admit that

It is indeed a troll comment, i go 2 (phy marrow)>tab>5(stun)>6(hf)>aoe macro.

FatherTed - Dreamweaver

FC sucks anyway.

Maelael - Heavens Tear

supertroyman1 wrote: »

na most of my squads were filled with the glass cannon wizzis and psys and i was was a decent (non cash shopped) bm. theres only so much i can do before they take agro at the last seconde and die. but i also play a magic class and trust me i have that issue sometimes.

*shrug*

I've had multiple psys tell me, and a few other BMs Ive trained or knew what they were doing before I even met them, that we are the only ones they can use black Voodoo around.

The few wizzies that still existed out there prior to 100 had similar things to say about being able to go full out.

2 of those BMs were not CSers or Merchs. One of them was runnin around in TT80 armor, +5 Deicides, and +4 TT90 Axes.

It really comes down to method, and having decent weapon setup. True, if the pure Mags unload before the tanks have a second to setup, I don't care what class you are - they're getting aggro.

Seekers have zero ability to keep a boss aggroed vs just about anything. This is a known issue, that even some of the best Seekers I've grouped with (and Im really judgemental of their play given what Ive seen my wife do) totally admit to that. NOTHING they have out-aggros a similar geared Sin, BM, or even a Barb who Armas on HF and goes nuts with aggro skills right after.

AoE aggro with a well refined Seeker pre and post their skill damage increase in vortex is still an issue. Unless the BM is a noob or the seeker really out-refines the BM - the seeker doesn't have aggro. There is just too much DPH damage that happens too quickly when we lay out our aoes at the start. I've seen a few seekers finally take aggro over long periods of aoe (RB comes to mind) but there is two factors: One, they need to crit or zerk alot (or both) and Two, the fight actually has to go that long.

On equal levels of gear and everyone involved having a good playstyle - Seekers are a support class. They pull, do damage, debuff/buff, but they aren't tanks due to the lack of aggro generation.

Even past this, the reality goes back to my original post in this thread: Get past the Wang comparisons, and just work with the group makeup you have and do it the most efficient way possible. If the Seeker pulling everything is the best option - do it. If the Seeker holding a mob till you pull all of BR so they can setup vortex works best - do it. If you don't have a seeker but plenty of other AOErs - do it. Etc.

supertroyman1

^ i agree with that for the most part.