How to calculate ring dmg

Ikarium - Dreamweaver

In looking at a couple rings, I am not sure how to calculate which will output more damage as I am far from mathematically inclined. Though given a formula or something of how to work it out, I'm sure I could do it.

I am ignoring any stats not related to attack (including refines). I am ignoring the rank9 ring atm - I know it packs one hell of a whallop, but this is a 'down the road' option, due to cost so maybe someday. And I know Sign of Frost is a common end game ring, I have one now...but I'm looking for more of a punch in attack power.

Looking at these 3 rings (and feel free to offer up any others that might add more atk):

Band from Heavens Jail - Phys atk +95, +38, dex +14 (assume perfect stat and restat str to dex)

Wang's Precious Ring - Phys atk +95, +40 +35

Sky Cover - Phys atk +114, crit +3%, atk lvl+2

How do you work out which one will offer more bang? Factor in crit? Dex VS straight +phys atk -are these calculated differently? Factor in Atk lvl?
I know Wang's is not an easy option, but still doable as far as I know as the mobs exist that drop the mats. For the atk lvl on the Sky Cover - assume it only stacks with a prexisting +35 atk lvls (Jones + Nirvana complect)
The pwcalc is a handy tool for seeing the base dmg, but doesn't tell the whole story.
Thanks

Olbaze - Sanctuary

Ikarium - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Band from Heavens Jail - Phys atk +95, +38, dex +14 (assume perfect stat and restat str to dex)

Wang's Precious Ring - Phys atk +95, +40 +35

Sky Cover - Phys atk +114, crit +3%, atk lvl+2

My guess: Sky Cover > Wang's Precious Ring > Band from Heaven's Jail.

I would also go that route because Sky Cover is an extremely well-rounded ring: It has high patk, the desirable +3% crit and it refines well. Wang's has the highest patk short of R9, but it lacks crit. Wang's probably makes up the loss in refines by having 2 Defense Levels. Band from Heaven's Jail might be an epic ring if you need the dexterity or have a lower DPH weapon.

How do you work out which one will offer more bang? Factor in crit? Dex VS straight +phys atk -are these calculated differently? Factor in Atk lvl?

Well, using the damage formula with your rings would result in the following:

Patk * (1+mastery+dex/150) * (1+crit) * (1+attacklevel)

Where:
Mastery is the amount of +damage% you get from your dagger devotion, it's put as a decimal, e.g. 75% = 0.75
crit is your crit%, input as a decimal, e.g. 32% crit = 0.32
Attack Level is your total attack level input as a decimal, e.g. 30 attack levels = 0.3

Notes gained from the formula:
Dex is highly ineffective, as 1 dex is only +0.006
Crit is highly effective, as each crit% is +0.01
Attack Level is highly effective, as each attack levels is +0.01
Patk is the superior stat, as it gets multiplied by the others

Comparing just the rings is a bad, bad, bad idea, because the effectiveness of your rings depends quite a lot on your other gear, mostly: +attack level is nerfed a lot by having DoTs and Jones' Blessing and +patk is nerfed a lot by having a highly refined weapon.

It also matters whether we're talking about 1 ring or two, because the differences will be that much greater.

Personally, I'd just save time and go to PWCalc with your build.

Also, I should point out that the damage you get isn't everything. Refines also matter. Similarly, a different ring has different results with different weapons: Wang's Precious Ring sucks on a +12 R9 with 2 Drakeflames, but it's pretty damn good on a +5 Barrier Thorn: Nirvana.

SpazzMcAps - Harshlands

teehee you said wangb:chuckle

Ikarium - Dreamweaver

Thank you so much for the formula and its breakdown as how it all works b:thanks

I thought I had provided enough info, but didn't consider how the stats would work with different weapons.

This is the current build : http://pwcalc.com/7adddf2d44a4fc9c

Daggers aren't low DPH by any means, so I guess I need to figure out what rings stacks up best in combination with them.

Gear will be refined +10 (its a process -.-), and I have not decided what to replace the flawless/immacs with yet - DoT or Primeval.
Gems in the daggers are placeholders as well, will be Garnet Gems before long. I need to refine rings for more pdef, but want to also gain as much patk as I can, so want to refine something I'm happy with. I'm not too keen on the Sign of Frost for the lack of added damage compared to others (hence its only +4).
I was thinking just the one ring as I would stick with the rank8 until down the road when I can replace it with rank9. Unless ofc, stacking up 2 other rings equals or outdoes the rank8 with the additon of being able to refine for pdef. I am perfectly open to that option as well.
When I get +10 refines and if I went DoT's in everything....do the Sky Cover atk lvls become kind of redundant?
I've become somewhat of a damage junkie, trying to squeeze out as much damage as I can from whereever I can, which is why I ask which route for rings would be best to go for that route.

Olbaze - Sanctuary

Ikarium - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Gear will be refined +10 (its a process -.-), and I have not decided what to replace the flawless/immacs with yet - DoT or Primeval.
Gems in the daggers are placeholders as well, will be Garnet Gems before long. I need to refine rings for more pdef, but want to also gain as much patk as I can, so want to refine something I'm happy with. I'm not too keen on the Sign of Frost for the lack of added damage compared to others (hence its only +4).

Sign of Frost is a rather all-rounder ring: it's got decent damage, the +crit% crit and the rather unique mag defense.

I was thinking just the one ring as I would stick with the rank8 until down the road when I can replace it with rank9. Unless ofc, stacking up 2 other rings equals or outdoes the rank8 with the additon of being able to refine for pdef. I am perfectly open to that option as well.
When I get +10 refines and if I went DoT's in everything....do the Sky Cover atk lvls become kind of redundant?
I've become somewhat of a damage junkie, trying to squeeze out as much damage as I can from whereever I can, which is why I ask which route for rings would be best to go for that route.

The Attack Levels on Sky Cover are in function no different than +crit%. However, due to access to high attack levels being much easier than to high crit%, the attack levels are less effective than crit%.

I changed your PWCalc to have +10 refines, R9 ring, a -0.05 interval on the dagger and DoTs and here's the numbers I got:

Sky Cover: 268,815 dps
Band from Heaven's Jail: 263,418 dps
Wang's Precious Ring: 265,103 dps

The explanation is really simple:
Sky Cover wins simply because it has +crit%. The crit% increase gives it ~2.5% more DPS. The +attack levels add another ~1%, though.
Wang's is second because it lacks crit% just like Band from Heaven's Jail but has a vastly superior amount of DPH
Band from Heaven's Jail loses because it's kinda half-assed in both respects

Note, that even if you "only" put +10 refine and Garnet Gems into the weapon, the order would still be the same.

_JlN_ - Heavens Tear

Rank 8 is also a good choice. I'm not sure how it fairs with the three listed but I think the resulting damage from it is higher than Band from Heaven's Jail and Wangs.

@Olblaze I couldn't reproduce the dps figures you listed for the rings
For skycover I used average damage from pwcalc * (1+sac.strike) * (1+crit) * (1+atk lvl) * aps
= 23125 * 1.15 * 1.37 * 1.61 * 5 = 293295 dps

Olbaze - Sanctuary

_JlN_ - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Rank 8 is also a good choice. I'm not sure how it fairs with the three listed but I think the resulting damage from it is higher than Band from Heaven's Jail and Wangs.

@Olblaze I couldn't reproduce the dps figures you listed for the rings
For skycover I used average damage from pwcalc * (1+sac.strike) * (1+crit) * (1+atk lvl) * aps
= 23125 * 1.15 * 1.37 * 1.61 * 5 = 293295 dps

That's because I didn't account for GoF/SS. And I did account for Wolf Emblem. I didn't account for GoF/SS because the weapon doesn't change, so the only thing the proc does is it scales the damage numbers, it doesn't actually change the order.

Unlike that, the crit numbers are varied, so accounting for Wolf Emblem makes sense.

_JlN_ - Heavens Tear

Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »

That's because I didn't account for GoF/SS. And I did account for Wolf Emblem. I didn't account for GoF/SS because the weapon doesn't change, so the only thing the proc does is it scales the damage numbers, it doesn't actually change the order.

Unlike that, the crit numbers are varied, so accounting for Wolf Emblem makes sense.

Thanks, that makes sense. How did you include Wolf Emblem?
Mind showing the numbers you used to calculate the damage on one of those rings please.

Olbaze - Sanctuary

_JlN_ - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Thanks, that makes sense. How did you include Wolf Emblem?
Mind showing the numbers you used to calculate the damage on one of those rings please.

Well, Wolf Emblem affects the way Crits add damage. I assumed level 11 Wolf Emblem, e.g. an average of 220% Rage Damage.

Usually, you count the additional damage from crits via the following:
[(100-100*C)*1 + (100*C)*2]/100=
[100(1-C) + 200*C]/100=
[100 - 100*C + 100*C]/100=
[100 + 100*C]/100=
1+C

Where C is your crit%.

Now, with Rage Damage factored in, the multiplier for C, which was 2 previously, is 2.2, so we get:
[(100-100C)*1 + 100C*2.2]/100=
[100 - 100C + 220C]/100=
1 - C + 2.2C=
1+1.2C

So Wolf Emblem simply adds a 1.2 multiplier to the Crit value BEFORE you add the 1. So with 37% crit, you end up with 0.37*1.2 + 1 = 0.444 + 1 = 1.444.

As for my calculations, take the Band from Heaven's Jail for example:
(21974+25393)*0.5*(1+0.34*1.2)*5*1.59=
(47367)*0.5*(1.408)*5*1.59=
265,103

Sakubatou - Sanctuary

Something just to add: The better the weapon the more crit % matters as an overall dps multiplier. +Phys attack affects your dph which is a single stat in the dps equation. Simply put, the better your weapon the more crit and dex is favored over +physical attack. Its nice you gave us a +10 G15 weapon to calculate on since thats an endgame dagger. If you refine higher the crit and attack levels of sky cover will increase the damage gap more than it already is, which is just another reason to put that ring ahead of the others.

_JlN_ - Heavens Tear

Thanks alot Olbaze and Sakubatou for your time, opinions and info!
You two amongst others for responding to so many questions and posts out there.

To add something to this thread, I'll be so bold as to say that a p.atk mod on a ring, from engraving, is better than a stat (str/dex) add. I did some calculations using dex vs. the p.atk before factoring wolf emblem and seems 20 p.atk is better than the +7 stat add - I guess that is the reason you used those engravings in the pwcalc.

I was going to reroll 20 p.atk for dex or str, but I'll stick with it and reroll the stat... some time... glad I saw this before I actually tried rerolling anything!

Olbaze - Sanctuary

_JlN_ - Heavens Tear wrote: »

To add something to this thread, I'll be so bold as to say that a p.atk mod on a ring, from engraving, is better than a stat (str/dex) add. I did some calculations using dex vs. the p.atk before factoring wolf emblem and seems 20 p.atk is better than the +7 stat add - I guess that is the reason you used those engravings in the pwcalc.

I was going to reroll 20 p.atk for dex or str, but I'll stick with it and reroll the stat... some time... glad I saw this before I actually tried rerolling anything!

20 Patk is indeed better than 7 dex, unless the 7 dex gets you a +1% crit. If that's the case, then the dex mod is always superior.

I simply used 20 Patk because it's more likely to be the better mod and shifting around the engravings would be too much effort for minimal function: the only set where it would even be a factor is Band from Heaven's Jail. But even then, it would only go up to 264,614, which is still less than either Wang's Precious Ring or Sky Cover.

Ikarium - Dreamweaver

Wow, I couldn't come back to visit and reply to my own thread for a bit.
Thanks alot for all this info. b:thanks

I knew crit was a big factor in this....but didn't realize that big, or that dex is really that ineffective (barring gaining a crit).
The daggers as they now stand aren't final, +11 is a definate thing. I hope to +12, but I have so many other things to work on first....but that's gonna matter with adding more crit. I am going to reroll for the interval sometime for 5aps. I'm happy at 4aps atm and want to get the most DPH I can out of them. I looooove those Sac Strike hits.
I really didn't want to refine up a ring I didn't like....or be blinded/misguided by just looking at base numbers (like all that +patk on Wang's Ring VS the SkyCover stats) without knowing how things were multiplied and stacked.

Again many thanks, I got the breakdowns of how things actually work and exactly what I wanted to know
Bookmarking this topic b:thanks



****
Oh I may as well ask this here as well, as its kind of related. In regard to crit and dex, I have heard 2 ways this works. That 1) it only goes up as full numbers and that 2)it goes up as decimal and partial values.

For example.....10 dex. If you add 10 dex does the game calculate it as 0.5% crit? Or does it not count toward crit at all until you roll over the 20 mark?

Olbaze - Sanctuary

Ikarium - Dreamweaver wrote: »

****
Oh I may as well ask this here as well, as its kind of related. In regard to crit and dex, I have heard 2 ways this works. That 1) it only goes up as full numbers and that 2)it goes up as decimal and partial values.

For example.....10 dex. If you add 10 dex does the game calculate it as 0.5% crit? Or does it not count toward crit at all until you roll over the 20 mark?

The does not count partial crits, you only get it in intervals of 1% at every 20 dexterity.