Yet another Demon/Psychic thread

Shayd - Raging Tide

I've been trough ecatomb skills for Psychic and looks like Sage is better for attacking skills you use for mobs and stuff but Demon has much better effects on buffs which make Psychic able to defend, the one on bottom is demon and they seem much better than Sage, which one is best for PVP and please don't be a jerk i will delete your post.


Soul of Vengeance (89)
No Mana cost when reflecting damage.
The reflected damage is increased by 4% of caster's Soulforce.


Soul of Stunning (92)
Every 4000 Soulforce you have will increase the Stun time by 1 second.
The fixed Stun time is increased by 1 second.


Soul of Silence (92)
The silence time is increased to 5 seconds.
The chance of silence is 1.2x that of the LV10 version.


Soul of Retaliation (99)
Heals the caster by 15% of Max Health.
Reflects damage equal to 0.6x Soulforce.

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear

Shayd - Raging Tide wrote: »

I've been trough ecatomb skills for Psychic and looks like Sage is better for attacking skills you use for mobs and stuff but Demon has much better effects on buffs which make Psychic able to defend, the one on bottom is demon and they seem much better than Sage, which one is best for PVP and please don't be a jerk i will delete your post.


Soul of Vengeance (89)
No Mana cost when reflecting damage.
The reflected damage is increased by 4% of caster's Soulforce.


Soul of Stunning (92)
Every 4000 Soulforce you have will increase the Stun time by 1 second.
The fixed Stun time is increased by 1 second.


Soul of Silence (92)
The silence time is increased to 5 seconds.
The chance of silence is 1.2x that of the LV10 version.


Soul of Retaliation (99)
Heals the caster by 15% of Max Health.
Reflects damage equal to 0.6x Soulforce.

First, you cannot delete posts.b:chuckle
Second. Choose yourself what you like more.b:laugh
I choose sage and I'm satisfied with it. Bad thing about sage is- VERY expensive skills books.

Subtraction - Harshlands

Vengeance: Assuming you have a MP charm and/or pots that you don't mind using more often, Demon is obviously better (assuming they're used on yourself).

Stunning: Once the stun time gets to 10 seconds, I believe it can't get any higher. But, assuming you average ~20-22k Soulforce at 101 (+10 weapon, +5-+7 everything else), it doesn't matter which one, as with Demon, you'll get a 5 second stun time (20/5 + 1), and with sage, you'll get a 5 second stun time (20/4).

Silence: At higher Soulforce levels, Sage is superior (you really don't need a higher chance to seal than 20-25% assuming +10 everything). If you only have a ~12-15% chance of seal, Sage is still superior, as turning 12-15% into 13-16% isn't too huge of a gap to make any difference.

Retaliation: I love the Sage version of this. Being able to heal yourself for 15% HP and essentially take no damage from the next attack is great. The Demon version, well, no-one really uses Retaliation merely for the reflected damage. The 0.5 to 0.6 is simply too small to make any real difference in PvP, especially when compared to the Sage version.

laloner

Is it a demon or sage skill that lets you delete posts?

_Perses_ - Lost City

laloner: lol.


To the Oringal Poster (OP): Here is the basic breakdown of sage and demon for the psychic class:

If you plan on PvE only then the Demon Psychic and Sage Psychic are basically equal, so take your pick.
If you plan on PvP and PvE then the Sage Psychic wins hands down as their skills are benefical for them in both situations.
If you plan on PvP only then the Sage Psychic kills the Demon Psychic with ease.

Psychel - Dreamweaver

_Perses_ - Lost City wrote: »

laloner: lol.


To the Oringal Poster (OP): Here is the basic breakdown of sage and demon for the psychic class:

If you plan on PvE only then the Demon Psychic and Sage Psychic are basically equal, so take your pick.
If you plan on PvP and PvE then the Sage Psychic wins hands down as their skills are benefical for them in both situations.
If you plan on PvP only then the Sage Psychic kills the Demon Psychic with ease.

Agreed. b:cool

UrDian - Harshlands

Sage psy ftw... no question...

ShadowsFlame - Raging Tide

_Perses_ - Lost City wrote: »

laloner: lol.


To the Oringal Poster (OP): Here is the basic breakdown of sage and demon for the psychic class:

If you plan on PvE only then the Demon Psychic and Sage Psychic are basically equal, so take your pick.
If you plan on PvP and PvE then the Sage Psychic wins hands down as their skills are benefical for them in both situations.
If you plan on PvP only then the Sage Psychic kills the Demon Psychic with ease.

the psy with highest kills in game is demon.... somebodys gotta explain how he got there o.o

_Perses_ - Lost City

ShadowsFlame - Raging Tide wrote: »

the psy with highest kills in game is demon.... somebodys gotta explain how he got there o.o

kill farming an alt.

I've looked at all the skills for demon and sage for the psychic, and sage wins hands down.

Psychel - Dreamweaver

Sage and Demon are quite equal in PvE, sage wins in PvP. Those demon psys you see around are that strong is because of high refinements.

Shadwrage - Sanctuary

_Perses_ - Lost City wrote: »

kill farming an alt.

I've looked at all the skills for demon and sage for the psychic, and sage wins hands down.

I wasn't aware that the added effects on Sage skills determined a players skill against another player? b:chuckle perhaps your explanation is lacking some backbone

To the original poster: I'm going Demon on mine. Everyone can go Sage if they like. It's all about playing how you want to play. If you like the crits and the range on Earth Vector, etc.. then go Demon. If you like Sage effects and Master Li's Technique for chi, then go Sage. Your skill isn't determined by your choice, plain and simple fact.

Erryne - Sanctuary

I'm with Shadwrage on this matter, it's up to your own personal choice and what you value being more important. I find sage to be more defensive, while demon more offensive. I went sage, but demon still got the better version on some skills.

I remember I once had someone ask about cultivation path for his psychic. He told me every psychic he had poked previously had told him to go sage for SoV and bubble of life for the most part. While I like those in pve, I still laughed at their answer. Then went on telling him both side of most skill that I could remember(and that demon book were cheaper usually). I think he said he would be going sage also for the defensive edge it was giving.

Longknife - Harshlands

Inb4 demon Psy trying to convince themselves they didn't royally **** up.

PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver

demon psy isnt screwed up if build correctly, -62% base -chan -25% demon spark -3% demon voodoo = -90% chan, it's so awesome, next month i'm putting some -chan gems in the weapon too, demon psy ftw, who cares about bolexpel, i'd rather watch bollywoodb:cry

Kerona - Sanctuary

PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver wrote: »

demon psy isnt screwed up if build correctly, -62% base -chan -25% demon spark -3% demon voodoo = -90% chan, it's so awesome, next month i'm putting some -chan gems in the weapon too, demon psy ftw, who cares about bolexpel, i'd rather watch bollywoodb:cry

Oh..... my god. And not in a good way.

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear

Erryne - Sanctuary wrote: »

I'm with Shadwrage on this matter, it's up to your own personal choice and what you value being more important. I find sage to be more defensive, while demon more offensive. I went sage, but demon still got the better version on some skills.

I remember I once had someone ask about cultivation path for his psychic. He told me every psychic he had poked previously had told him to go sage for SoV and bubble of life for the most part. While I like those in pve, I still laughed at their answer. Then went on telling him both side of most skill that I could remember(and that demon book were cheaper usually). I think he said he would be going sage also for the defensive edge it was giving.

You cannot expect, that one culti will have everything better than other. Demon/sage for psy is pretty easy decision(for me) comparing to wizards sage/demon. That was really hard to choose path.b:thanks

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear

PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver wrote: »

demon psy isnt screwed up if build correctly, -62% base -chan -25% demon spark -3% demon voodoo = -90% chan, it's so awesome, next month i'm putting some -chan gems in the weapon too, demon psy ftw, who cares about bolexpel, i'd rather watch bollywoodb:cry

Jezus guys. Psy doesn't have problem with channeling time. It's not wizard. What I see problem on psy, is casting time(animation). And you cannot decrease this time. I would welcome much shorter animations.

Psychel - Dreamweaver

PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver wrote: »

demon psy isnt screwed up if build correctly, -62% base -chan -25% demon spark -3% demon voodoo = -90% chan, it's so awesome, next month i'm putting some -chan gems in the weapon too, demon psy ftw, who cares about bolexpel, i'd rather watch bollywoodb:cry

O_O OMG, WTH is with that insane -Chan. b:shocked

Seriously a Fail psy being build.... I don't see much difference with the -chan on psys, excluding some of our long chan/cast skills such as Soulburn and BoL. Even if chan is reduced, you can't reduce casting and cooldown time as well. So practically, you are not able to spam the same spells over the period of time untill it meets its cooldown. Not to mention, Spark ends after 15 sec, and your darn Glacial and Sandburst is of cd of 8 sec, and being in white voodoo is QQ.

I would have rather spend my coins on Citrine shards and Magic attributes over -chan shards and attributes if I am that psy.

As coming back to the topic, I agree with Shadwrage as well. Its really up to how you play that determines which celestial paths you go.

PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver

that awkward moment when you are not sure if they will believe you if you say you were joking...
anyway, here is one of my old posts with my views on -chan: http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=891522&page=5 b:avoid

speaking of -chan... http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/50/failpsy.jpg

TheDendra - Harshlands

In TW that 0.2sec faster channelling won't mean anything because you had to sacrifice damage and/or crit rate which greatly outweighs the benefits of -chann gear.

Channelling is the last stat you should even remotely consider working on. First you need to work on your hp, damage output, phys.def and crit rate. You don't have to go crazy on pdef because we lack pdef booster skills.

As for crit, it starts being more beneficial than pure dmg bonus at a certain point, because crit is based on % and dmg bonus gives a fixed amount. I.e. in all mmos noobs usually go for full damage shards even with endgame gear when 1% crit benefits them more - and that's how you differentiate noobs from smart players.

Problem in pwi is that I don't think anyone really knows at which point 1% crit becomes better than having sapphires in your weapon. My guess would be that r9+12 endgame gear is a safe bet on when you can experiment and adjust your shards.

A reliable crit rate for pvp is around 30%+, however, pwi has no gear stat that reduces the chance of being crit hit and/or damage of the crit hit, so even a ~20% crit rate can be considered reliable in pwi.

My reasoning for going crit endgame is that I will already have enough firepower to take out lesser targets with normal dmg and that crit rate will help me deal with barbs and such, not to mention 1shot crits on those lesser targets don't sound bad either.

Kerona - Sanctuary

-chan?

even with -50% chan you will be able to cast+chan the...

1)basic spells: from 2sec to ~1.75 sec
2)aoes: from 3 sec to ~2.5 sec
3)soulburn: from 3sec to 2sec
4)stone smasher: from 5 sec to 3sec

but if your are gonna use stone smasher couple it with tide spirit and you will get it in 3.2sec

all in all and from my point of view if you are going to sacrifice defense better get DoTs
definitely more dps+dph but ~0.5sec slower on average.

now if we had -0.1chan...

This is legit.

Psychel - Dreamweaver

16338111 wrote:

-chan?

even with -50% chan you will be able to cast+chan the...

1)basic spells: from 2sec to ~1.75 sec
2)aoes: from 3 sec to ~2.5 sec
3)soulburn: from 3sec to 2sec
4)stone smasher: from 5 sec to 3sec

but if your are gonna use stone smasher couple it with tide spirit and you will get it in 3.2sec

all in all and from my point of view if you are going to sacrifice defense better get DoTs
definitely more dps+dph but ~0.5sec slower on average.

now if we had -0.1chan...

I see your point. The Soulburn and Stone Smasher will benefit the most from the -chan, but I still see no point in -chan since cast time can't be reduced.

PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver wrote: »

that awkward moment when you are not sure if they will believe you if you say you were joking...
anyway, here is one of my old posts with my views on -chan: http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=891522&page=5 b:avoid

speaking of -chan... http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/50/failpsy.jpg

I have that weapon atm as well given to me by my faction mate to help to increase my damage output, instead of the damage output from the TT90 falling moon, but ima ignoring the -chan stat in Barrier Sphere:Soulbringer. I believe the shard put into that weapon should not be Stone of the savant, but a crit shard or a Sapphire Shard. Its no point adding to the useless -chan for psy weapons.

Edit:
I am lvl 99 atm, thus I am able to use Barrier Sphere: Soulbringer. Stupid Forum put my avatar as lvl 97...

TheDendra - Harshlands wrote: »

In TW that 0.2sec faster channelling won't mean anything because you had to sacrifice damage and/or crit rate which greatly outweighs the benefits of -chann gear.

Channelling is the last stat you should even remotely consider working on. First you need to work on your hp, damage output, phys.def and crit rate. You don't have to go crazy on pdef because we lack pdef booster skills.

As for crit, it starts being more beneficial than pure dmg bonus at a certain point, because crit is based on % and dmg bonus gives a fixed amount. I.e. in all mmos noobs usually go for full damage shards even with endgame gear when 1% crit benefits them more - and that's how you differentiate noobs from smart players.

Problem in pwi is that I don't think anyone really knows at which point 1% crit becomes better than having sapphires in your weapon. My guess would be that r9+12 endgame gear is a safe bet on when you can experiment and adjust your shards.

A reliable crit rate for pvp is around 30%+, however, pwi has no gear stat that reduces the chance of being crit hit and/or damage of the crit hit, so even a ~20% crit rate can be considered reliable in pwi.

My reasoning for going crit endgame is that I will already have enough firepower to take out lesser targets with normal dmg and that crit rate will help me deal with barbs and such, not to mention 1shot crits on those lesser targets don't sound bad either.

I have to agree to this. Crit gives an edge in combat, as a spike will definitely be needed against high HP opponents. Adding more to your base Magical damage will be somewhat useless at certain point since the increase will not be anymore significient and will not deal the spike damage needed as your crit hit rate is low. But guess those can't afford r9 will have to stick to the Sapphire and HP shards.

PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver

uhuh. i'm actually arguing against -chan in that post, saying that the benefit for the normal spells is too low and even the long ones are not that long...

i hate chan and find it tottaly useless, sorry for any misunderstanding..

Psychel - Dreamweaver

Na, its alright. Only ppls with no knowledge of psys will tell us -chan is best for ALL classes, especially psys...
Have that told to me a few times in game and I scold their heads off their body. b:sweat

eisheth22

Psychel - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Sage and Demon are quite equal in PvE, sage wins in PvP. Those demon psys you see around are that strong is because of high refinements.

sage or demon is good for pvp if you have idea how use your char
the more important skill for a demon psy in pvp and in pve is the land slide have 30 % to increase your critical rate to 50 % for 6 sec if you have a good chaneling you can use 3 skill in 6 sec and the 3 skill will be are critical

you can combine the land slide with skill 100 is very nice for pve and pvp
the demon psy have nice critical and combos

the sage is nice too but i have my psy demon and i love it
is good for pve good for pvp i am happy

the idea is knows your pj

Earth Vector Demon increase 8 mts (+ 28.5 range mts for lv 10 Earth Vector) = 36. 5 range mts is a very nice for pvp and tw

I_Snipe - Lost City

eisheth22 wrote: »

sage or demon is good for pvp if you have idea how use your char
the more important skill for a demon psy in pvp and in pve is the land slide have 30 % to increase your critical rate to 50 % for 6 sec if you have a good chaneling you can use 3 skill in 6 sec and the 3 skill will be are critical

Earth Vector Demon increase 8 mts (+ 28.5 range mts for lv 10 Earth Vector) = 36. 5 range mts is a very nice for pvp and tw

even without good channeling, you can still use 3 skills within 6 seconds. Those 3 skills will have a 50%+ chance to be a critical, they will not all be guaranteed criticals.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Demon Earth Vector only increases the AOE range from 6 meters to 8 meters, not cast range.

_Mg_Zr - Heavens Tear

I_Snipe - Lost City wrote: »

even without good channeling, you can still use 3 skills within 6 seconds. Those 3 skills will have a 50%+ chance to be a critical, they will not all be guaranteed criticals.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Demon Earth Vector only increases the AOE range from 6 meters to 8 meters, not cast range.

Im pretty sure it increases the aoe range.
Im not sure on this or not but if it works it would be nice. The +50% crit from demon landslide stacked with the + 20% crit from demon tide spirit + the base crit of the player would equal a very high crit chance.

Euzebe - Sanctuary

Crit bonuses don't stack or overwrite. Neither Landslide nor Tide Spirit stack with or overwrite each other or base buff or Demon barb crit buff.

+50% bonus doesnt guarantee a crit per se, but 3 attacks with 65-70% crit rate endgame is good odds. It's also ridiculously powerful if you choose to aoe after proc.

As stated, the range bonus on Earth Vector goes to effect range, not cast range.

_Mg_Zr - Heavens Tear

Thanks for verifying the crit thing