Demon Seeker

XXZeonXx - Harshlands

Sympathi - Archosaur wrote: »

I think whats hes trying to say is due to seekers slow movement speed, and demons seekers lack of successful paralyzes or stuns by the time you've finished casting Edged Blur the blademaster could easily dash away out of range and the barb can tiger form invoke or even just run away, leaving you 2 sparks down.

The damage from edged blur is nice but its lack of guaranteed full duration damage is what severely lets it down in PvP and as a level 11 skill.

Just fyi, demon heartseeker has just as much potential to paralyze as sage heartseeker unless you're using parchedblade, duelist's glee, or no stance at all, in which case sage heartseeker only has a 5% higher chance with those two stances and 15% with no stance at all. Remember that the success rate of your stance and heartseeker can only add to 100% at max, and stance takes priority. This is also true for ion spike. I wish I could have demon heartseeker for this reason, but that's too bad. :c

Also, edged blur hits full damage on invoke. So just heartseeker them and stand outside of the Barb's range until the immobilize runs out? Maybe proc soulsever in the meantime just for the extra damage later.

Against smart BMs edged blur isn't as effective without using another spark for voidstep, because they will leap back. I normally wait until voidstep is out of cooldown and my chi is absolutely full, switch to soulsever and hit them a few times to proc the status, switch back to Duelist's for the best possible chance of heartseeker proc'ing, heartseeker to immobilize, then edged blur. If they leap back then I can follow up with a voidstep which completely wastes it, and then continue. If they don't leap back, then I just continue with blade affinity ion spike, unfetter or fortify for anti-stun before voidstep stun wears off, gemini slash to activate the extra metal damage from soulsever (which is boosted by the ion spike metal debuff), and then spam whatever is most effective after that.

In my opinion, BMs are the easiest class for Seekers to deal with, with Sins and Barbs following closely. Just know how to use your skills wisely to deal effective and unavoidable spike damage right after a charm tick.

Anyway, in regards to the topic go sage Seeker for PvP. Sage gemini slash, sage mastery, sage edged, sage rock splitting cleave, sage stalagstrike, sage unfetter, etcetera.

ReMakaBo - Archosaur

because they will leap back

Thats Ok--- a kiting BM is a losing BM in regards to BM vs seeker- If they get some of the edge blur damage, thats an added bonus-

XXZeonXx - Harshlands

ReMakaBo - Archosaur wrote: »

Thats Ok--- a kiting BM is a losing BM in regards to BM vs seeker- If they get some of the edge blur damage, thats an added bonus-

I'm not going to waste two of my sparks to just to make a BM kite me when I'm already kiting them. That's not the point of edged.

ReMakaBo - Archosaur

XXZeonXx - Harshlands wrote: »

I'm not going to waste two of my sparks to just to make a BM kite me when I'm already kiting them. That's not the point of edged.

Kk don't never said you should did i?

XXZeonXx - Harshlands

ReMakaBo - Archosaur wrote: »

Kk don't never said you should did i?

I know; I was just referring to your comment stating that them taking damage from edged is just an added bonus, when it's most often the primary goal.

I do agree that a BM trying to kite doesn't help them at all, however.

ReMakaBo - Archosaur

XXZeonXx - Harshlands wrote: »

I know; I was just referring to your comment stating that them taking damage from edged is just an added bonus, when it's most often the primary goal.

I do agree that a BM trying to kite doesn't help them at all, however.

I mainly use it to assist in keeping a safe stunlocking distance from me an the BM- the added bonus would be if hes dumb enough to rush in and roar (as I said before I jump- stun in the air, still doing damage lolol)

I don't like kiting BMs myself to often, they will already absorb alot of out p-damage as it is, and for us being more casting based, need to be unleashing as many skills back to back to beat the charm of a BM- so keeping him (or her for teh ladies) as far away as possible out of stun range is my goal-

BMs age old defense , is to make sure they can stun on charm CD----

EnDeavor - Lothranis

I'm a demon seeker, with all demon skills + skills 100. It does include mastery + vortex.
For all those demon seeker, I'm gonna burst your bubble, but demon vortex doesn't work as expected. There is NO stun. I've sent a ticket about it, and pwe sent it to china.

I see the sage seeker having a major increase on pure damage, while demon seeker is more luck based. Clearly happy with the demon one, especially when crit rate can go as high as 50% with lvl 100 skill (rewinding gesture). I also appreciate a lot the twin purify (demon unfetter + quid pro quo) pve and pvp wise (unfetter beeing able to be reset with rewinding gesture).

About chi (pve), my most useless skill became one of my most used one : demon rock splitting cleave. Almost spammable (3sec CD), 20% chances to get 50 chi. Clearly worth it !

X\_Tegus_/X - Harshlands

xxzeonxx - Harshlands wrote: »

i'm Not Going To Waste Two Of My Sparks To Just To Make A Bm Kite Me When I'm Already Kiting Them. That's Not The Point Of Edged.

Reverse Kite The Bm

Reverse Kiteee

Yeeesss

X\_Tegus_/X - Harshlands

ok time to put in my 2 coins worth about BM vs Seeker. ( I have both so i can see from
both perspectives )

Anyway. Im pretty sure as a bm if i had endgame gear ( which ill consider to be full nirvana for me ) Im sure a seeker would not be able to kill me without at least an r9 weapon cause of
zerk critting. With the genie i use, edged blurr isnt a problem to me. I can either leap back ( if i get voidstepped after that and i cant do anything else and the edged blurr is actually lethal at that point when i have the stated gear then i use heart of steel to resist pretty much the full duration of edged blurr). Its all about wut the player has on his/her genie and if they are smart about when they use the skills.

However on the flip side at this point killing a ''good seeker'' that kites , ( or killing a Zeon in harshland's case ) is near impossible for me at this point because hes got an anti sin genie which screws any bm trying to kill him over even further since they can pretty much save expel for an off chance that the bm does come close to killing them or probably wont even have to use it at all and can spam fortify when needed to mess up one of my stunlocks. Speaking of stunlocks, some bms are wayyy too predictable with it ( fist bm's ....The ones that will use nothing but fists and only switch to axes to use drake bash then switch back ) I can see how timing a fortify wouldnt be hard on ppl like them.
When im fighting Zeon for example , since its hard to keep him in place I use my axes more for skill spamming to make it less obvious when im gonna start my stunlock and
the begining of my stunlock is descrete. ( I got rid of occult ice genie a long ago to see
how much i could do without it but with these new skills classes are getting i think im
gonna need an extra stun now to use at my disposal.

Zeon i challenge u again once ive fully reset 1 of my 3 genies to a str build XD

Sympathi - Archosaur

XXZeonXx - Harshlands wrote: »

Just fyi, demon heartseeker has just as much potential to paralyze as sage heartseeker unless you're using parchedblade, duelist's glee, or no stance at all, in which case sage heartseeker only has a 5% higher chance with those two stances and 15% with no stance at all. Remember that the success rate of your stance and heartseeker can only add to 100% at max, and stance takes priority. This is also true for ion spike. I wish I could have demon heartseeker for this reason, but that's too bad. :c.

When pking i do not use stances, purely for the fact that stance debuffs override the chance for paralyze to trigger, and i don't know about you, but i would prefer a 90% chance to 9 second paralyze, then a 20% + Level 11 chance to stance debuff only to have to go close to trigger the stun.

When i paralyze its usually to keep the target away from me hence my assessment of sage heartseeker > demon.

ReMakaBo - Archosaur

Anyway. Im pretty sure as a bm if i had endgame gear ( which ill consider to be full nirvana for me ) Im sure a seeker would not be able to kill me without at least an r9 weapon cause of
zerk critting.

When I was r8 (not by choice) I use to have little to no problem fighting equally geared, or even slightly better (nirv aps build) I personally don't rely on the zerk even now to be my winning finisher- The only time I'm wishing for one, is when hitting +12 JoSD across the board chars-

Maelael - Heavens Tear

_Belgarion_ - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Hate to burt your bubble but (a) Even when stunned, Edged blur continues to work, thats one of the reasons its a nice skill, and (b) Roar does you no good, as I'm 90% sure demon reflect doesn't work in pvp, and sage reducing magic attack does nothing as edged blur is based on physical attack. Oh, and edged blur is not static as the seeker is free to move and attack while it is working.

Not saying demon seeker is better, cause I went sage and personally think sage wins hands down on almost every skill (shatter debuffs and vortex being the exceptions). Oh, and I got Blade and Sword Mastery twice, sold one on and used the other. Vortex seems much harder to get to me.

Bursting my bubble requires you getting off edged blur before stun.

I'll test Demon Roar in open pvp. Not like that barb is doing anything else besides being a banker.

If edged blur isn't static - hey much more viable for PvP. Still gotta get it off before stun.

Maelael - Heavens Tear

ReMakaBo - Archosaur wrote: »

Thats why Ive practice alot with rewinding gesture- mainly for 1v1 stun locking + edge blur on BMs-

As far as their stun locking- (mainly roar) When I see one coming --no doubt thier first typical responce is to roar- I blade +edge and simply jump in the air--b:laugh

By the time they get on thier lil fly mount to try and get close to APS-- I'm falling back down and somtimes done ticked their charm-

You're playing against some crappy bms if theyre only opening up with Roar. Bash is pretty fast (1.9 vs 2.4). Idea is open up with a marrow (or not vs some classes), Bash, do damage, roar while bash is still stunning, do more damage, dead opponent.

So far, even pre Rank 9, the most I had to do was those two to put down a seeker. Takes a while on the heavier ones, but they go down. The biggest downside of seekers is the lack of DPH.


And ugh, why can't you be on HT, I'd love to fight you 1v1

ReMakaBo - Archosaur

Because a BM starts with roar doesnt make them bad-- it being a 5 meter ratious is far more efficient than starting with bash, considering youd have to get in melee range to use it- Most PvP savvy people are not standing there waiting for a BM to drake- and most can see the axes coming a mile away-

Oh and I LOVE bms that use marrows

Maelael - Heavens Tear

ReMakaBo - Archosaur wrote: »

Because a BM starts with roar doesnt make them bad-- it being a 5 meter ratious is far more efficient than starting with bash, considering youd have to get in melee range to use it- Most PvP savvy people are not standing there waiting for a BM to drake- and most can see the axes coming a mile away-

They should see the axes coming a mile away, as really...most don't use anything but axes in PvP, or at least starting. One of my faction mates mostly uses claws to PvP, and still starts out with axes for Bash. I could see some fake outs, but it's practically instant to hit axe hotkey and drake hotkey.

Melee range shouldn't be a problem given BMs have 3 skills plus genie to make that happen. I've had zero issues getting on top of someone to drake in TW and etc.

If were talking large group PvP and TW, sure, roar is good.

And yea, you guys, wizzies, and archers...booo marrows.

Heh, this convo could go on and on - I seriously think it comes down to skill with the two classes for sure. I'd imagine an equally geared and skilled BM and Seeker fight would go on and on and on and on.

ReMakaBo - Archosaur

I guess I'm from the old school BM- retired one after 2+ years of playing it-

Roar was more efficient to start for me because it also gave me a few meters to CC cyclone heal (back in the days the demon version was relivent) and drakes breath, (axe switch) then Bash- and attempt to CC glacial-

Since it isnt an reality for BMs anymore to CC skills, I can see why bash might be perceieved as a better start- But then again, ALOT of people are still stuck on same older moves-

Maelael - Heavens Tear

ReMakaBo - Archosaur wrote: »

I guess I'm from the old school BM- retired one after 2+ years of playing it-

Roar was more efficient to start for me because it also gave me a few meters to CC cyclone heal (back in the days the demon version was relivent) and drakes breath, (axe switch) then Bash- and attempt to CC glacial-

Since it isnt an reality for BMs anymore to CC skills, I can see why bash might be perceieved as a better start- But then again, ALOT of people are still stuck on same older moves-

Yea I started this BM on the registration date you see to the left. Quit cause I couldn't tank anymore, made a barb when I came back, quit for a while, came back and found out barbs couldn't tank anymore, back to the BM. I was only around for the CC days for about 2 weeks, though - never got that down/right though. I've seen a lot of the changes with the class style

Drake has always been quicker, not to mention the demon version lasting longer - giving you more time to get some hits in before getting roar in. That was kinda the idea.

So far I've been going with combinations of Vacuity, HP, AD, Stuns, HF, AoEs for Spike, Whirlwind to stop kiters, along with Drake Ray, Fan of Flames, Chi Siphon, and True emptiness in the right situations. All axe really.

I busted out the claws once on a catabarb that refused to go down, and on and off in duels just to be a pain if I have BP. I've used them vs Seekers a few times, but it seems to be about the same rate as axes. I may have to try them the next time I come across that damn seeker I had to beat on for like 60 seconds last TW.

I've done pole a few times against chumpy opponents or in group situations when everything dies before I get there just to get hits in.

Marrow is very situational although its up almost constantly in TW.

But yea I still think my statement of equally geared, equally skilled - its almost a stalemate of large proportions. I know my wife had a 5 minute fight in cube with a R9 sin last night, and they called it quits cause it was taking forever.