Demon/Sage plan

Strut - Dreamweaver

First off, this isn't a "which way do I go" thread. I'm just looking for input on a plan.

Alright. So I've done some looking and you can be 4 aps without demon spark. This is with Pan gu or Love tome. I've also seen that I can change from demon to sage at 100. And from what I've been told, sage sin skills are a whole lot better.

So if I go demon, I can solo FC in the high 90s and make pretty good money if I keep doing it like 10 hours a day. I can then use that money to buy aps gear like rank whatever chestplate and 99 ashura and lionheart stuff and pan gu. Then, when I hit 100 I'll switch to sage to get the better skills like sage bp.

So I'm asking all the older players if they think this'll work. I don't plan on buying demon skills. And I'll put a pwcalc up of my gear when I figure out how.

Mauntille - Heavens Tear

Ultimately, it's your choice, so if you want to start as one cultivation and switch to another, go right ahead, just make sure you do your research on it first.

Strut - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Then, when I hit 100 I'll switch to sage to get the better skills like sage bp.

It requires a bit more than just hitting 100 to switch culti's. You may want to check out this page on the wiki for more information.

Also, keep in mind that APS gear is very expensive and that Sage spark allows you to solo things earlier (but slightly slower in the long run) and Demon spark allows you to solo things faster (but later). They each have their trade offs, so you'll have to determine which is more important to you.

Salari - Raging Tide

Strut - Dreamweaver wrote: »

First off, this isn't a "which way do I go" thread. I'm just looking for input on a plan.

Alright. So I've done some looking and you can be 4 aps without demon spark. This is with Pan gu or Love tome. I've also seen that I can change from demon to sage at 100. And from what I've been told, sage sin skills are a whole lot better.

So if I go demon, I can solo FC in the high 90s and make pretty good money if I keep doing it like 10 hours a day. I can then use that money to buy aps gear like rank whatever chestplate and 99 ashura and lionheart stuff and pan gu. Then, when I hit 100 I'll switch to sage to get the better skills like sage bp.

So I'm asking all the older players if they think this'll work. I don't plan on buying demon skills. And I'll put a pwcalc up of my gear when I figure out how.

I hate to bust your bubble, but you might get 3-4 runs in that 10hr span, and that is probaly pushing it. That time would be spent better farming for the mats instead of farming coin for the mats in FFC.

_Skai_ - Raging Tide

As Mauntille and Salari pointed out, it's not as good as you think. The plan is right for what you have in mind, but in reality it's not.

In the high 90s it's still a bit difficult to solo FC. And even then, it will take you a lot of time, and a lot of pots and/or charm. In the end it's not worth it, as you'll end up spending a lot of your profit on pots/apoth/etc, and only end up with 4-5 runs in that 10 hour time frame. Not to mention dying is pretty easy when soloing FC in your 90s.

And as Mauntille said, switching cultis isn't a simple "talk to a npc and done" type of deal. It requires your 100 cultivation, which requires a LOT of questing, including all of your OHT quests to unlock Map 4.

The best thing to do is to stick with one cultivation and just farm anything that can give you decent income.

Sakubatou - Sanctuary

Its mostly been covered already and with good advice, but maybe I can add some things:

Solo FCC at 99 is doable. FCC at 80 is actually doable. Its just not effective. You'll still probably be using a level 80 weapon. You may or may not have your TT99 LA wrists and boots or your HA ornies for interval. Ideally you'd have those waiting for you and be saving up for R8 plate. I don't know what others would think about me suggesting R8 as a greater importance than the TT99 pieces but -.1 on the R8 plate and the R8 daggers are an amazing jump at 100 (Or G13s) and thats when it becomes time effective to solo it for coin.

As for sage vs demon, thats something I suggest you explore the 100+ game first before you make a preemptive decision. I went sage on my first sin because I considered my style of play skill based and "heard" sage had the better skills. Ended up basically trashing the character. Its a paint **** for my demon now. I like the bulk of demon skills because of how a sin is played and it works better for me. I just didn't understand this until I was getting endgame gear and aps and really getting into a sins "sweet spot" of play. Not saying sage is bad for everyone, just saying you should play 90+ or 100+ for a while with other sage and demon sins to really get to understand the benefits and drawbacks of each culti before making a choice to be switching.

And I gotta agree with Mauntille that sage allows you to solo things safer sooner, but Demon allows you to solo things more efficiently but later on. I think sage has the better playability around level 90 and it tilts in favor of demon the more endgame you get.

Olbaze - Sanctuary

Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »

Its mostly been covered already and with good advice, but maybe I can add some things:

Solo FCC at 99 is doable. FCC at 80 is actually doable. Its just not effective. You'll still probably be using a level 80 weapon. You may or may not have your TT99 LA wrists and boots or your HA ornies for interval. Ideally you'd have those waiting for you and be saving up for R8 plate. I don't know what others would think about me suggesting R8 as a greater importance than the TT99 pieces but -.1 on the R8 plate and the R8 daggers are an amazing jump at 100 (Or G13s) and thats when it becomes time effective to solo it for coin.

This guy is planning to sell heads for, at least, the -interval tome. I don't think that's going to work. Even if he manages to do it with zero costs, the sales would only amount to 1.5m or so per run, meaning he'd be looking at like 170 runs sold. And that's not even including shopping for TT99s and R8.

As for sage vs demon, thats something I suggest you explore the 100+ game first before you make a preemptive decision. I went sage on my first sin because I considered my style of play skill based and "heard" sage had the better skills. Ended up basically trashing the character. Its a paint **** for my demon now. I like the bulk of demon skills because of how a sin is played and it works better for me. I just didn't understand this until I was getting endgame gear and aps and really getting into a sins "sweet spot" of play. Not saying sage is bad for everyone, just saying you should play 90+ or 100+ for a while with other sage and demon sins to really get to understand the benefits and drawbacks of each culti before making a choice to be switching.

And I gotta agree with Mauntille that sage allows you to solo things safer sooner, but Demon allows you to solo things more efficiently but later on. I think sage has the better playability around level 90 and it tilts in favor of demon the more endgame you get.

One of the biggest problems I see with demon is the community. The WCs pressure people into getting 5 aps as soon as possible as a means of being able to farm more. In a lot of people, this would result in sharding flawlesses and having +3 armors, with a +10 2x Garnet Gem G13 nirvana dagger. It's great for Nirvana, but outside of that, it's like a suicide flag.

Personally, being that I'm a 3.33 Sage, I really wouldn't like to be Demon. Not with my 6,458 life. And from what I've seen, that's on the higher side for people with the same items. Which is ridiculous considering that it's all +6 with Immaculates.

The OP is obviously clueless, with remarks like:
And from what I've been told, sage sin skills are a whole lot better.
I can then use that money to buy aps gear like rank whatever chestplate and 99 ashura and lionheart stuff and pan gu.
Then, when I hit 100 I'll switch to sage to get the better skills like sage bp.

So it looks like his plan is stick to 99 until he has all the available -interval gear on 99. And he plans to get those by selling FCCs. Yeah.

Xainou - Sanctuary

Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »

One of the biggest problems I see with demon is the community. The WCs pressure people into getting 5 aps as soon as possible as a means of being able to farm more. In a lot of people, this would result in sharding flawlesses and having +3 armors, with a +10 2x Garnet Gem G13 nirvana dagger.

If it was that I'd be happy. But in quite a few bhs you see way worse. 100+ sins with the level 60 rank top and hook and thorns. They're just more of a brick to the squad than any help.

@OP Don't even plan on switching cultivation. Be smart, pick whatever you want in the end and slowly move there. There are other, more efficient ways of making money. Rushing to 100 won't get you geared you up for that level. b:surrender

Olbaze - Sanctuary

Xainou - Sanctuary wrote: »

If it was that I'd be happy. But in quite a few bhs you see way worse. 100+ sins with the level 60 rank top and hook and thorns. They're just more of a brick to the squad than any help.

@OP Don't even plan on switching cultivation. Be smart, pick whatever you want in the end and slowly move there. There are other, more efficient ways of making money. Rushing to 100 won't get you geared you up for that level. b:surrender

Um... I've seen a 4k HP sin with a +10 R8 dagger. Sharded with 2 DoTs. Also seen a sin with 2 pieces of HA armor, rank 4 chest and a G13 dagger. And a sin with a +10 G13 dagger and rank 6 armor.

Xainou - Sanctuary

Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »

Um... I've seen a 4k HP sin with a +10 R8 dagger.

How does that even work..? I'm pure dex and I already got 5.1k hp with my TT90/OHT stuff .__.' Even if I dropped my epically low refined warsoul, I couldn't hit 4k hp lol

Olbaze - Sanctuary

Xainou - Sanctuary wrote: »

How does that even work..? I'm pure dex and I already got 5.1k hp with my TT90/OHT stuff .__.' Even if I dropped my epically low refined warsoul, I couldn't hit 4k hp lol

Well, here is his base gear. Considering that he had 4,209 life, it'd be +2 refines tops. Actually no, even +1 on all pieces would give him 4.3k.

Xainou - Sanctuary

That is just damn sad. lol Sheesh, some people.

Salari - Raging Tide

Pls no more DoT's in weapons b:shutup
Just the other day got in an argument with a person on putting DoT's in daggers. I think he eventualy blacklisted me. The reason he was right he said was because he had a 10x sin b:laugh.

Some people just do not understand basic math

Sakubatou - Sanctuary

Was on my sin with a level 105 BM in Nirvana who had DoTs in his weapon. I suggested he upgrade to flawless garnets for more dd and tried explaining how DoT is 1% increase, garnets get 500% from spark damage, 1/150 x str, add to everything "base damage"...

His response was "Maybe thats how it works for sins but not BMs. Stick to your own class" ... *facepalm*.


Another time I was running with a Sin (and actually still need to do the math on this) and I saw DoTs in his weapon. I said something to him about it and he told me it was because the damage from garnets didn't help as much in pk as much as negating an opponents defense level, but knows garnets would be better for pvp. I need to do the math for this before I can say he is wrong, but I think he is.

And just now as I picked up keys one of Sanctuaries infamous cash shoppers logged with their +10 G13 daggers and full DoT build, but only +2 refines on their armors.

Salari - Raging Tide

That does just sound wrong with dot's and pk. b:chuckle

Nymphali - Dreamweaver

Wanna hitkill something?

Try this out: http://pwcalc.com/f40fd7139d5f83d6

Now that you're triple sparked, use cloud eruption and do the two spark 100 skill and open a crater in Pan Gu.

Sins aren't meant to "Hitkill a r9 +12 barbarian", its impossible.

Azizsixer - Raging Tide

Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »

Was on my sin with a level 105 BM in Nirvana who had DoTs in his weapon. I suggested he upgrade to flawless garnets for more dd and tried explaining how DoT is 1% increase, garnets get 500% from spark damage, 1/150 x str, add to everything "base damage"...

His response was "Maybe thats how it works for sins but not BMs. Stick to your own class" ... *facepalm*.


Another time I was running with a Sin (and actually still need to do the math on this) and I saw DoTs in his weapon. I said something to him about it and he told me it was because the damage from garnets didn't help as much in pk as much as negating an opponents defense level, but knows garnets would be better for pvp. I need to do the math for this before I can say he is wrong, but I think he is.

And just now as I picked up keys one of Sanctuaries infamous cash shoppers logged with their +10 G13 daggers and full DoT build, but only +2 refines on their armors.

Hey I'm actually curious about this...if ur bored and work out the math of dot vs garnets for pk re-post plz
Never thought abt it like that before lol

Olbaze - Sanctuary

Azizsixer - Raging Tide wrote: »

Hey I'm actually curious about this...if ur bored and work out the math of dot vs garnets for pk re-post plz
Never thought abt it like that before lol

There's too many variables.

For example, are we talking with or without Jones' Blessing? Against Rank 9? 24 JoSD? G16 Cube necklace?

Of course, you could do two count, one for the highest amount of defense levels, e.g. 24 JoSD r9 with G16 cube necklace, O'Malley's, Wang's Precious Ring, Matchless Wings and Faction Helm, for a total of 96 Defense Levels, and the other would be without any Defense Levels.

You could do the same process for the Sin's equipment and end up with a total of 4 numbers, so you'd end up getting a range of damage added and work that back to an amount of +patk.

Sakubatou - Sanctuary

Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »

There's too many variables.

This. It depends more on your opponent than anything, really.

There are also ideas like defense levels help out a cleric with 50% pdef reduction from gear more than they'd help out a barb that already has 86% reduction from gear. 1 defense level when taking 50% dmg is more than 1 defense level when taking 14% dmg. So if you are canceling 1 defense level with your 1 DoT it'd be more beneficial against an already squishier opponent, right?

I still think the garnets are better in PvP, but even if they weren't they'd be close enough to the same benefit that you wouldn't want to gimp yourself in PvE for an almost fiction PvP gain.

Edit: would look further into this now, but pwcalc is down. Think its getting some updates.

Azizsixer - Raging Tide

b:shocked
Just thinking about all the variations confuses me <.<

I'll also try to fiddle with the pwcalc whenever it comes back up o.O

One of yall could prbly start a new thread with pros/cons if yall work anything out on teh dot vs garnets for pk debate? Instead of further hijacking this one lol

Really though 2 atk lvls doesnt seem to be much overall if the person does pve and pvp since they lose out more in pve with less dmg, unless they have a separate wep for pvp/pve. Which isnt a farfetched idea. 2 diff r8 dagz b:chuckle