New players are spoiled !

NinnaXXX - Sanctuary

i do help out with bh's kinda often enough just when ppl go like spamming crazy for a tank/cleric id feel srry if they would spam for an houre not getting any help lols, thought most of the times i end up slacking in the bh while being on the phone so they already start killing and i would just toss a heal or two when someone would be rly close to die for the rest i rly just help out on bosses b:chuckle

i find it funny thought how low levels go asking for 5aps for bh's xD

VenusArmani - Dreamweaver

Sarrafeline - Sanctuary wrote: »

Get some Apo to help, and make sure you've got 4.0 or 5.0 sparked before you try to really solo Shocktrooper.

For me, the hardest one to solo on my sin was Dread because of the bishops. I soled that instance at 93. And I didn't even have to deal with the mobs. I imagine its going to be very difficult for Mesro not doing it on an easy mode class like sin, but instead on a psychic who even has to clear the mobs. But I kinda miss this "lets try it," mentality from the players. SO many now want their hands held. And the best ones whose only form of powerlevelling are bhs and who experiment and try new things generally aren't running with random squads. Which is a shame.

hiddenmonkey

I don't get it. How is a high level any different then when people thought a barb was always needed?

Bms properly healed could handle bosses 10 levels under them no problem with maybe the exception of pole/nob where it was a little dicey during the debuffs. But that didn't matter. I've seen barbs drop just as easy as bms at those bosses. As long as a bm had bp the only way they'd die is if they got 1 shot.

And as for high levels 'destroying' everything and keeping people from learning anything I think power leveling FF's already destroyed most player's character experience. Till FF becomes an exclusive 80+ to enter I don't see any issue with high levels helping BH's all the time.

John_Smith - Harshlands

Sarrafeline - Sanctuary wrote: »

Yeah, cause there aren't many people left in the BH29/39/51 level range anymore.

They all either Hypered to 100, Frosted to 100, Oracled to 100, or otherwise powerleveled to 100.

Honestly, it can be less than fun running a BH for some nubs. There are squads with suicidal Sins and Archers, Clerics that insist upon spam healing you BEFORE you can aggro all of the mobs, and sometimes squads where barbs or BM's or whatever will try to aggro so much to try to just kill you (which doesn't ever work...)

I've even been kicked from a squad after clearing to a boss, just to have the squad leader reinvite me 'because we can't kill the boss on our own QQ' (which I turned them down, told them to do it on their own).

Look, these instances have a number. 19, 29, 39, 51, 59, 69, 79, 89, 99. There is an actual REASON for that. If you had a Barb, cleric, maybe a BM, and some DD's that are all that level, you should be able to successfully run that instance. FB19 is really, really difficult, but if 5 venos and a cleric can clear FB19 all at level 19, then it should be much easier with a Barb.

If you are level 6x and BH51 is CONFOUNDING you, you are seriously doing something wrong. I can understand if you have a barb that's half naked and a cleric who is missing half a brain, but it should still be something you can actually do with a squad of nothing but level 51 players.

Anyway...

Mesro, you're gonna have some fun doing FCC solo at 95. Shocktrooper is going to faceroll you. A lot. And by a lot, I mean... Well it depends. If you are charmless and a pure Dex build, every single ****ing time. If you have a charm and have 10k HP, then you will be successful, but you will burn some charm. And by some charm, I mean 10 runs will pretty much be the end of that charm.

Get some Apo to help, and make sure you've got 4.0 or 5.0 sparked before you try to really solo Shocktrooper.

Lolwat, I do it at 2.22 and did it at 1.87 when needs must, wth do you do, just stand there and let him bubble you for 4 minutes before killing him?

ScarFury - Lost City

Well all these "new" players that dont even take the effort to learn how to run any bh or instance as a team and just rely on high lvl players to do everything for them are just gonna be just as pointless when they reach 100+ Unless its an experienced player just tryin to lvl an alt fast, whish is STILL dumb to me...what in the hell is the point to pay another player to power lvl u so fast???

IN the end why even play the game lol,, all i can think of when i see any class 20-60 for example on WC spending all day asking to buy heads, its like why even play the game??? cuz to me it comes across as "paying someone to play the game for me, would like to reach endgame as quick as possible plz because i want to get bored of this game fast"

And then wats even sadder is all these noobs that get the help from decently skilled high lvls mistake the fact that high lvl = instant skill. Then they reach 100+ and are confused why theyre not as good as the lvl 100 that helped them get to lvl 100.

But hey in the end it just makes it that much more fun for i when i go out and rpk, "um im higher lvl and have better gear how did u kill me, u ****!" or even more hilarious are the fail sins that think 4-5aps EQUALS skill....sure its a good advantage for any SKILLED class but its not gonna insta change a noob to become any good.

BUT yes ofc i (and prob everyone else who actually play the game cuz its fun, or used to be lol) miss the days when u ran instances or bhs and such all around the same lvl and had to figure outr strategies to try and beat them succesfully. Especially long after i been playing for a while and clerics/barbs started becoming rarer and rarer. Where half the server would refuse to even try without it, it gave me the chance to test my limits and see what i can and cant do without relying on sumone healing me. ANd what ALLLLLLL the powerleveld noobs dont realize is, that of all the **** ive ended up doing on my own/with minimal help 80% of the time the stuff i thought would be too hard or impossible...ended up being pretty easy and just taught me how to KEEP MYSELF ALIVE.

Why would i want to have a "i need a cleric to keep me alive" shiit it still makes me laugh these days when i see "PRO FROST SQUAD 9x+ NEED CLERIC LAST SPOT" LOL it cant be THAT pro if they need a cleric....being a seeker, right around 85+ and up as long as i had bp from a sin i could solo frost without a cleric....but ofc thats just mobs...bosses easily done also...but would take forever lol, so bringin a couple DDs is always better.

Anyway long story short....for all the powerleveled noobs that join squads only to say "we dont have a high lvl we wont be able to do this" or "we need better tank" or "wait full squad and no cleric?" and leave squad cuz of any of these reasons....how bout u actually learn ur class and test out watchu can do....ull be suprised at what u can accomplish without relying on others.....and in the end will teach u way more important things than "how can i lvl to 100 the fastest" ie keeping yourself alive in chaotic situations

ZackMystic - Harshlands

I find it extremely boring when my bh squads are always looking for someone 9x to help. seriously if me(on my 78 bm) and a cleric and sin can run the bh im pretty sure having 3 more members wont be any more difficult(except sins who think they start attackin boss they go eat some chips or something...) Best bh run ive had was bh59 on my bm along with a cleric,seeker,wizzie,and sin. The three zhened the **** outta all the bosses and the sin was our mobile bp b:thanks

VenusArmani - Dreamweaver

ScarFury - Lost City wrote: »

Why would i want to have a "i need a cleric to keep me alive" shiit it still makes me laugh these days when i see "PRO FROST SQUAD 9x+ NEED CLERIC LAST SPOT" LOL it cant be THAT pro if they need a cleric....being a seeker, right around 85+ and up as long as i had bp from a sin i could solo frost without a cleric....but ofc thats just mobs...bosses easily done also...but would take forever lol, so bringin a couple DDs is always better.)

BP is still a heal. If you can't do it without BP, you can't do it without heals. So what if someone else prefers those heals to come from a cleric whose better at it, and can do other things too. I actually hate it when squads expect me to tank without a cleric, as i'm usually the one that holds aggro in these squads against the bosses. On my sin, I mean.

ScarFury - Lost City

i see what you're saying. all i meant was that people who think anything is IMPOSSIBLE or not worth even trying without a cleric obviously needs to find other ways to stay alove than relying on a cleric or even bp. OFC id RATHER have at least bp, and a cleric is always useful and appreciated so i save on pots and charm sumtimes, im just saying people who just jump to "this isnt do able without a cleric" without even trying it ONE time...should teach themselves about their class and learn alternate ways of doing things and at least learn that clerics arent REQUIRED for over half the things they think.

but ofc theyre good to have and save everyone time and money with heals.

BabaORiley - Dreamweaver

As long as it is easy to buy power and hypers and combine them with promiscuous team/level/experience dynamics and leveling supermarkets like FC, the trend will be more new players choosing the fast easy way just as more high levels choose to profit off the cycle.

It looks like new players who might want to play this game where they level up with same level squads, at least up to 100, are facing a major uphill battle in finding like minded players.

Everyone is free to choose, but without anything to counter the 'get to 100 ASAP trend' who thinks it can or will change?

I personally don't think the sum total of idiots, cry-babies, spoiled ones, etc. etc. ever actually changes. It is just that the blame for it changes with the fashion.

Having mostly leveled up with same level squad mates I have seen no shortage of num-nums with myself sometimes included in that category. b:chuckle

Sarrafeline - Sanctuary

John_Smith - Harshlands wrote: »

Lolwat, I do it at 2.22 and did it at 1.87 when needs must, wth do you do, just stand there and let him bubble you for 4 minutes before killing him?

I typically get bubbled 9-12 times in a row unless I use vacs.

I soloed Shocktrooper at 92 on my Sin.

Dreadindra is easier than Shocktrooper.

Decaying Fragrances is a bit harder than Dreadindra, but still pretty easy.

Runewolf can be a bit of a challenge, but I personally don't ever run away from him unless i absolutely have to.

And I tend to end up tanking both little and medium Holeen at the same time since I have no way to pull...

And for the record, I do FCC unbuffed minus Bloodpaint, wolf emblem, and which ever Tidal or Focused, without a second sin or anyone else to 'assist' in any way. >_> I just ask a fac mate to accept squad invite for a sec so i can open typically. :P

VenusArmani - Dreamweaver

Sarrafeline - Sanctuary wrote: »

I typically get bubbled 9-12 times in a row unless I use vacs.

I soloed Shocktrooper at 92 on my Sin.

Dreadindra is easier than Shocktrooper.

Decaying Fragrances is a bit harder than Dreadindra, but still pretty easy.

Runewolf can be a bit of a challenge, but I personally don't ever run away from him unless i absolutely have to.

And I tend to end up tanking both little and medium Holeen at the same time since I have no way to pull...

And for the record, I do FCC unbuffed minus Bloodpaint, wolf emblem, and which ever Tidal or Focused, without a second sin or anyone else to 'assist' in any way. >_> I just ask a fac mate to accept squad invite for a sec so i can open typically. :P

Gratz at doing it at 92 without buffs. I did it at 93, but for me personally Dread was harder. Killed me twice before I got the rhythm down for him. I admit to using apoths and base buffs. I made it a point not to use my cleric for anything other than opening up the place because I wanted to see if I could do it alone. It cost way more than its worth though, so I always do it in squads.

Sarrafeline - Sanctuary

VenusArmani - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Gratz at doing it at 92. I did it at 93, but for personally Dread was harder.

QQ it cost too much in Apo and pots to do it at 92 for me. It was cheaper to just do it with a squad until 98+...

My BM can solo the instance with Cleric buffs, but I cheated and borrowed my Archer's +10 GV (and got a +10 Deicide). I did first solo on BM at... 87? I died 6 or 7 times on some of the longer pulls, and shocktrooper was rougher than sandpaper, but I did it QQ

Not gonna even try on Barb or Archer >_>

I can see how Dread is harder at lower levels. The bishops are a pain and purge sucks. Sleep + Bishop is also no fun. That's partly why Vit build Sin is win until 100+ for a Sin to Solo stuff. If a Bishop is hitting you for 500, and Dreadindra is hitting you for 1200, and you only have 4k hp, what only ticks my charm once might either be massive charm damage for you or be fatal while you're in sleep.

Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear

For all of you who claims that to solo this and solo that at whatever level. It is not even remotely impressive when it takes you longer to clear an instance then a fat man's lunch at the buffet.

VenusArmani - Dreamweaver

Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear wrote: »

For all of you who claims that to solo this and solo that at whatever level. It is not even remotely impressive when it takes you longer to clear an instance then a fat man's lunch at the buffet.

Luckily, it wasn't done to impress you. It was done to test the skills of the character and push certain gear to it's limits. You know to have fun instead of throwing on OP gear that puts the game in easy mode and then bragging about how quickly you can do things. Even though it involves no actual skill on your part. Putting on that gear and then bragging about how quickly you can do it is the same a level 80 bragging about being able to solo qingzi quickly as far as I'm concerned.

Michael_Dark - Lost City

This thread reminds me of all those BH NUB threads that came out right after BH was implemented. And they were just as true then as they are now. And it's interesting to note that even BH nubs can complain about hyper nubs.

Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear

VenusArmani - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Luckily, it wasn't done to impress you. It was done to test the skills of the character and push certain gear to it's limits. You know to have fun instead of throwing on OP gear that puts the game in easy mode and then bragging about how quickly you can do things. Even though it involves no actual skill on your part. Putting on that gear and then bragging about how quickly you can do it is the same a level 80 bragging about being able to solo qingzi quickly as far as I'm concerned.

I should be the last person anyone try to impress. After all... being the first dozen r9 users... I doubt anything would impress me. I have always been in the top percentile (in terms of levels) in the game ever since I started on second day of the game. We are talking about the first to do unwined fb89 cause no one can get the mats to make wine. The first ones to run ff and lunar before its been nerfed to the point that even a blind three legged cat can run it. I think I may be the 3rd or 4th archer to ever complete a full rb on HT... even though now I can duo rb with a single cleric.

It is not impressive when you can do something in 4 hours that some other guy can do in 30 minutes. It is only impressive when you can do something that no one else can. That's like trying to impress people with your 3 day marathon... when people like me can run one sub 3 hours.

_blood_rain - Sanctuary

Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear wrote: »

For all of you who claims that to solo this and solo that at whatever level. It is not even remotely impressive when it takes you longer to clear an instance then a fat man's lunch at the buffet.

can I quote this in my sig? b:chuckle

VenusArmani - Dreamweaver

Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I should be the last person anyone try to impress. After all... being the first dozen r9 users... I doubt anything would impress me. I have always been in the top percentile (in terms of levels) in the game ever since I started on second day of the game. We are talking about the first to do unwined fb89 cause no one can get the mats to make wine. The first ones to run ff and lunar before its been nerfed to the point that even a blind three legged cat can run it. I think I may be the 3rd or 4th archer to ever complete a full rb on HT... even though now I can duo rb with a single cleric.

It is not impressive when you can do something in 4 hours that some other guy can do in 30 minutes. It is only impressive when you can do something that no one else can. That's like trying to impress people with your 3 day marathon... when people like me can run one sub 3 hours.

How is any of your accomplishments you listed impressive under you definition? Because you found out about the game earlier than some people? Because you played a bit longer than they did? A lot of people did fb89 unwined. Other people did full RB. Other people did ff and lunar. It's not impressive under your definition at all.

I personally find it more impressive when someone can do things other can't do without this gear or that aps level. I'm not impressed that an aps character can kill stuff faster than a level 70. You better be able to or you're a complete fail. I'm impressed when people have a lot of skill for their level. I'm not impressed by the level 90 that can kill ocean tusker fast. I'm impressed by the level 2x sin who did it on his own because most other level 2x sins cannot. I'm actually impressed by people who can do things that others can't given the same exact resources. You're impressed by people doing things faster after they outgear/level that instance. To each his own.

I'm not impressed by the young guy who can run the Boston marathon in less than 3 hours, I'm impressed by that 80 year old who it ran it in 4. Why? Because most 80 years can't do run it at all, and he can. To each his own though I guess.

truekossy

VenusArmani - Dreamweaver wrote: »

*snip*

Great post. Very well said, in my opinion.

lordhanzo

VenusArmani - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Luckily, it wasn't done to impress you.

Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I should be the last person anyone try to impress.

the babbles should ends at those 2 lines.
*feels strange about ppl who thinks other ppl paid attention to them but in fact, not a tiny bit given..*

Sarrafeline - Sanctuary

lordhanzo wrote: »

the babbles should ends at those 2 lines.
*feels strange about ppl who thinks other ppl paid attention to them but in fact, not a tiny bit given..*

I don't know if I should laugh, or facepalm.

*DONK.*

Ow. Coconut to the head. Guess I facepalmed too hard.

MsSeraphine - Archosaur

I can say, the game has changed since i have started to play in 2011 january...
My first char was my sin, and when it got to 40 i started doing the bhs. The old, nice days and memories... I went into secret passage, and it was full of lowbies (not in wrong meaning), who needed help with qingzi. We formed a squad, and we could ALWAYS do it, because everyon were there... And we did it, and sometimes again, too.

But now... i go into the dungeon, and maybe i find ONE player... but usually noone.
Its hard to find any bh squads, because only the 'normal', or rather the 'poor' players do bhs because they cant level in any other ways. And when we have 2-3 members, someone say that 'we need a high lvl to help', yes. Just because everyone els who would need the same bh, he/she is already lvl 80-100, just because they spent real money to powerlevel themselves, or just simply were lucky... b:surprised

And the other thing. I need some help with bosses and searching help in west archo for example. And, say, 3 people pm me, but 2 of them want pay... When i started with my sin, i never got help from a player who wanted money... All of them did it free. :S I see, that everyone needs money, in the game, too... but nah...

Many players just powerlevel themselves to 100, cash-shop the good items, gears, fashions, flyers etc., and then just go afk in archo...
Dont misunderstand me, i dont wanna hurt anyone, really, b:surrender i just say my opinion.
And every time, when i go there and see them, i have the thought that i will never be so well-geared and pro like they... b:sad

Sry about the compliment, i just want to write everything... b:victory

Baalzephon - Raging Tide

Bobobejumbo - Raging Tide wrote: »

As I rule I won't do a whole run for my faction members if its 59 or higher. By then they should know how to perform in a squad and search for a squad.

For 51 I'll still help but i insist they try to fill every spot in the squad but one, for me.

Also, for 29-51, I teach my members the caves, what the bosses do, what mobs explode, how to lure a running mob properly, etc. If they don't have time to be taught, they didn't need the help that badly IMO.

One guy, lvl 31 left my faction in FB29 because i was going through and teaching him. He told me "hurry up I dont have all day". I told him we could do it when he had the time then. he didnt like that so he left. One week later the guy is 101 with an R9+12 weapon/+8 armor and in one of the top TW factions.

I try to teach all the new players but I guess knowing how to play the game truly doesn't mean a thing when your credit card has no limit.

Dude sorry, but on our server a skilled char (mostly sins and seekers) is like turn b:fatb into gold... i just get tired of lvling all my whole chars, nowdays i can find like 10 demon sins with 5 aps and have no idea how to play, even seekers with interval gears, or any other clases undergeares because they just fced to lvl 100 (selling heads for ppl between lvl 85 and 95??) the new players are just playing like the old lazy butthead players