ATK lvl VS GOF

issamali

Hey every... I have an argument that ATK lvl +20 is almost as good as GOF on nirv dagers second cast... I did some math and some testing in game... Solidified my argument but still need to ask everyone and see what you guys say. Assuming GOF has proc rate of 20-25% as tested ingame it seems so so 1in4-5 hits goes zerc...

Assuming 1 person X with def lvl 0.... and 2 nirv second cast dagz with no stats on them.. assuming everything is the same refines buffs shards everything...only thing changing is what i will mention lets do the tests..

If both hit.. They both deal same damage.. Lets assume 1000 each on the 0 def lvl char...

Then lets say person x now has def lvl 50...

If both hit.. They both deal same damage.. 500 each on the 50 def lvl char.(ie 50% less damage)

Now lets give one of them GOF and one of them atk lvl 20...

Then the zerc person will deal 1000 damage while the the atk lvl will deal 700..

Assuming both have also same crit rate... lets say all hits go crit...

Lets take 4 hits as base of the testing...
Zerc crit will appear 1in 4 hits....
So total damage from 4 hits is
6000+4000= 10,000

As for atk lvl
all hits crit
so total damage from 4 hits is
(1400*4)=5600

OFC this shows GOF is better... And I agree so far....

The argument kicks in when you increase the Def lvl even more...Lets say 80
Lets do the math again...With everything the same.

If both hit.. They both deal same damage.. 200 each on the 80 def lvl char.(ie 80% less damage)

Now lets give one of them GOF and one of them atk lvl 20...

Then the zerc person will deal 400 damage while the the atk lvl will deal 400..

Assuming both have also same crit rate... lets say all hits go crit...

Lets take 4 hits as base of the testing...
Zerc crit will appear 1in 4 hits....
So total damage from 4 hits is
2400+1600= 4,000

As for atk lvl
all hits crit
so total damage from 4 hits is
(800*4)=3200


Total damage is still less than GOF. But here we going extremes with assumption that all hits are crit and zerc actually is hiting once in each 4 hits, and to be honest it deosnt really hit that much... you will sometimes get 3hits zerc consecutive but sometimes it will not proc in more than 5 hits... so its still not sure. So I have doughts on which is better. Also the fact that on pwiwiki GOF has .25% chance to occure whole atk lvl has .02% chance. Also a guy on our server had the 20atk lvl 3atk lvl and -int and he reforged. Arount those also good..
Speaking in pk i know its vimportant to get high hit damage in one hit to sometimes tick the charm and kill and all into consideration, I would like corrections on my math and arguments with against. Please no trash talk or rude comments just discussing and I guess that it means that sac int dagz dont even compare to atk lvl int dagz as they have 5% proc rate right?

Please comment

_Skai_ - Raging Tide

Your math via damage multipliers with attack/def levels are totally off. You're doing it wrong.

20 attack levels on a G15 would provide a good solid DPS in PvE, but not so much spike damage in PvP. If you think all a sin has to do is auto attack someone to death without using any skills, then you're quite wrong.

Not only does GoF have the high chance of combining with a crit to do 4x the damage and having the high potential to 1-shot someone, but their auto attack can also zerk and do substantial damage. To a half r9 wiz, I've done a 10k zerk crit auto attack on him, but of course that's with R9, which is probably an unfair comparison, since it has both attack levels and GoF.


The main reason GoF is better in PvP is because of its high spike damage potential. 20 attack levels just raises the overall average spike damage.

Olbaze will be here to explain what you did wrong, as I'm also iffy about how the damage is calculated after filtering in Attack and Defense levels. But I know for a fact it's not 100% linear like the way you're calculating it.

Divine_Death - Harshlands

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

If Attack Level > Defense Level:
damage = damage dealt * (1 + (A - D)/100)
else
damage = damage dealt / (1 + 1.2 * (D - A)/100)

So in essence, GoF, with a proc of 20%, increase your PvE DPS by 20% and 20 attack levels increase it by 20/130= 15%, assume base attack level of 30 from jones. GoF is going to be better for PvP for reasons already mentioned, attack levels would be preferred for PvE due to similar DPS boost with no HP loss.

Olbaze - Sanctuary

So many things wrong.

Let me save you time and just tell you the conclusion. GoF is much better due to the fact that just about everyone uses Jones' Blessing nowadays. Also in PvP the effects of Attack Levels is a bit iffy due to Defense Levels, whereas GoF always stays the same.

GoF always gives you roughly 30% more damage. Well, assuming that it has a roughly 30% proc rate, which I believe someone somewhere dug up or reach through some testing, I forgot.

20 Attack Levels will add 20% more damage on an enemy with 0 Defense Levels. So, even in the ideal case, 20 Attack Levels is still going to be inferior to GoF. And if you have Jones' Blessing here, then GoF would deal ~12.7% more overall DPS.

Now let's say you're fighting someone who has 24 JoSD and an O'Malley's for a total Defense Level of 63. Let's also assume that the only Attack Levels you get for both setups is 30 from Jones' Blessing. Now, the GoF setup will end up dealing 82.48% of its usual damage. The +20 Attack Level setup on the other hand will end up dealing 74.86% of its usual damage. Thus, the GoF setup deals ~10.18% more DPS here.

Since it's 7:11 in the morning and I just woke up I won't bother you with the details. However, you had at least two mistakes: 1. You assumed that Defense Levels were linear just like Attack Levels in every single case, when they're not. 2. You assumed GoF added 20-25% overall damage.

For Attack Levels, if Attack Level > Defense Level, the the overall damage multiplier is 1+((Attack Level-Defense Level)/100). If Defense Level > Attack Level, then it's 1/(1+1.2*(Defense Level-Attack Level)).

Olbaze will be here to explain what you did wrong, as I'm also iffy about how the damage is calculated after filtering in Attack and Defense levels. But I know for a fact it's not 100% linear like the way you're calculating it.

Not very nice of you to leave such a note. Seeing something like that first thing in the morning is going to bug me so I'll end up having to do it. And it's not really a good idea trying to do even the simple math involved here when you've been awake for a grand total of about 3 minutes. For example this time I almost forgot that I was using O'Malley's and not Jones' for my increased Defense Level example, which obviously caused the numbers to be slightly off. Well I had to fix that.

_Skai_ - Raging Tide

I apologize Olbaze.

It's just I know you're good at this math, as well as you're used to it. If you saw any trace of ill-intent, please disregard it, as I meant none.

I just knew he was doing the math wrong. And off to bed for me!

Traz - Dreamweaver

Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »

So many things wrong.

Let me save you time and just tell you the conclusion. GoF is much better due to the fact that just about everyone uses Jones' Blessing nowadays. Also in PvP the effects of Attack Levels is a bit iffy due to Defense Levels, whereas GoF always stays the same.

GoF always gives you roughly 30% more damage. Well, assuming that it has a roughly 30% proc rate, which I believe someone somewhere dug up or reach through some testing, I forgot.

20 Attack Levels will add 20% more damage on an enemy with 0 Defense Levels. So, even in the ideal case, 20 Attack Levels is still going to be inferior to GoF. And if you have Jones' Blessing here, then GoF would deal ~12.7% more overall DPS.

Now let's say you're fighting someone who has 24 JoSD and an O'Malley's for a total Defense Level of 63. Let's also assume that the only Attack Levels you get for both setups is 30 from Jones' Blessing. Now, the GoF setup will end up dealing 82.48% of its usual damage. The +20 Attack Level setup on the other hand will end up dealing 74.86% of its usual damage. Thus, the GoF setup deals ~10.18% more DPS here.

Since it's 7:11 in the morning and I just woke up I won't bother you with the details. However, you had at least two mistakes: 1. You assumed that Defense Levels were linear just like Attack Levels in every single case, when they're not. 2. You assumed GoF added 20-25% overall damage.

For Attack Levels, if Attack Level > Defense Level, the the overall damage multiplier is 1+((Attack Level-Defense Level)/100). If Defense Level > Attack Level, then it's 1/(1+1.2*(Defense Level-Attack Level)).



Not very nice of you to leave such a note. Seeing something like that first thing in the morning is going to bug me so I'll end up having to do it. And it's not really a good idea trying to do even the simple math involved here when you've been awake for a grand total of about 3 minutes. For example this time I almost forgot that I was using O'Malley's and not Jones' for my increased Defense Level example, which obviously caused the numbers to be slightly off. Well I had to fix that.

GoF = 20% proc rate it's not even close to 30%.

Olbaze - Sanctuary

Traz - Dreamweaver wrote: »

GoF = 20% proc rate it's not even close to 30%.

Doesn't matter. With Jones' Blessing, GoF would need a proc rate of only 16% to be superior to the +20 Attack Levels modifier, in PvE.