Help us, your our only hope.

killthelights · January 2012

This crisis is specified to the Harshlands server, the problem doesn't seem nearly as bad on any other server. The Harshlands server is monopolized by one faction time and time again, every map reset it begins again, the faction reformed under a different name. Currently, if you look at the map, a small handful of regions are left, which as time has shown will be controlled by this faction within the time restraint it takes to declare war on each. The factions name is Catalyst, which beforehand was known as Zulu, and before that others..so on..etc..yawn. The faction is comprised of the servers most seasoned players, often being called the "endgame" faction because no one can stand up to it. Because of the grossly absurd map domination, the economy is under their whim. With their large revenue, the low gold is bought out immediately and then of course resold to the server at higher amounts, keeping the gold at a standard 1.6-1.7 even on a crappy sale. not to mention their particular lusts for cube necks b:cry causing the cost of a STAMP to edge to 200mil. DoDs are still missing for questioning b:laugh Aside from in-game economy, the PVP zones have been broken down to large chat rooms with target practice scurrying past every so often. An often shouting in normal chat is "oh hell no, cata is here" followed by a prompt serpentine barrel roll into safe-zone. Ingame..this wont change. They hold the majority of r9s/ high refined characters that have been playing together for almost 3 years now, and the lure of money (sadly) pulls in MORE high equipped people. There is no hope to fix this by people in server...They hold all the power, every faction whose tried has failed. Its no contest, there wont be an uprising, and darn it they have no death star for us to blow up.

Now enough about our hopeless problem.. How about a solution. (Not really but, it would HELP)

We need, 1- A map reset. Not that this alone is going to solve anything, all it's going to do, is put a band-aid on it till it gets to this point again.
2- We need something along the lines of a limit to how many lands they can own. TW is suppose to be something fun for any lvl 3 faction to be able to have fun in. What is the point is bidding on Cata when they're full of R9's that even with a 3 stack they can send 20+ R9 +12's in.

I mean, with the amount of money that they pull in weekly, the only surprise here is that noone has writen this sooner.

Noting that, it's not just the money, it's when you take 50 people that have known eachother, played together, TW after TW together for 3 years, they work well together.

Our server isn't going to fix its own problem, because it can't. People gear up with the intention of fighting them, but end up joining them or at the very least not attacking them. If you fight off one, you better move, because they come in hoards. Not to mention almost anyone would side with a Cata for fear of being attacked themselves. (I'm even guilty of that)

Wow, I missed my point. Okay, we need a Limit to how many lands one faction can own. Like... 10 or something. I don't care. But what this would do is it would allow other factions to be able to hold land, and make money without fear of being smited by the Gods of our server.

Might I say, that calling them Gods is a little bit of an over statement. Mostly because once you get full R9 the ego trip never comes full circle, its a sad statement to make but time and time again egos are boosted to dangerous (sometimes Q.Q worthy) levels.

So in sort. We need help.b:surrenderb:surrender

Aubree - Dreamweaver · January 2012

b:chuckle Its the same on all servers... there is to be no help for you b:shutup

Demaulicus - Heavens Tear · January 2012

Honestly your thread has no point as a faction might make a ton of coins per week. However, If you do the calculations it's only something like this:

200,000,000/80 = 2,500,000 per member (one TW that weekend)
200,000,000/160 = 1,250,000 per member (two TWs that weekend)
200,000,000/200 = 1,000,000 per member (If all members show for 3 way gank or no TW)

Toss in HP charm usage, apothecary (If you can't farm them), attack charms (for those without rank 9 weapon), then phys/mag defense charms for cost.

Platinum HP charms = 3,700,000 (Atleast on HT server)
Defense charms = 8,000,000 (estimate)
Apothecary items = 4,780,000 (estimate)

So lets do the math:

3,700,000 + 8,000,000 + 4,780,000 = 16,480,000 cost wise (1 plat charm and other items)

2,500,000 - 16,480,000 = -13,980,000 (estimate)
1,250,000 - 16,480,000 = -15,230,000 (estimate)
1,000,000 - 16,480,000 = -15,480,000 (estimate)

This ofcourse depends on HP charm, defense charm, attack charm, and apothecary usage. However, Just because factions hold land doesn't mean they are making a profit off doing so. Yes, It helps cushion the cost to TW but it doesn't give as huge of an advantage as people think.

Fintan - Lost City · January 2012

Long post has been made many times in the past few years. (Believe it or not, the problem is not specific to this version of Perfect World and even predates PWI!)

However, there are no "good" solutions. The two bandied about repeatedly are:

1) Land-holding limits:

This won't work as then you'll just have their alts in other factions. So it'll be the same people, with different map colors.

2) Regular map resets:

There actually are times when the maps aren't dominated. Lost City is actually at a good spot right now; no one's going to take over the whole map anytime soon, but there's also activity happening. There's even the chance here and there for new colors to show up still. Resetting maps at times like this would just be counterproductive as it would actually encourage people to get into "the" faction so they don't get screwed by the resets.

There are other suggestions, too, of course. But these are the two most often suggested (and you suggested both, at least obliquely).

Basically, once all the servers stabilize, they need to announce a reset. This seems to happen about the same time as each expansion. There's rumbling of such coming soon, so we shall see, eh? b:bye

Divine_Death - Harshlands · January 2012

Demaulicus - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Honestly your thread has no point as a faction might make a ton of coins per week. However, If you do the calculations it's only something like this:

200,000,000/80 = 2,500,000 per member (one TW that weekend)
200,000,000/160 = 1,250,000 per member (two TWs that weekend)
200,000,000/200 = 1,000,000 per member (If all members show for 3 way gank or no TW)

Toss in HP charm usage, apothecary (If you can't farm them), attack charms (for those without rank 9 weapon), then phys/mag defense charms for cost.

Platinum HP charms = 3,700,000 (Atleast on HT server)
Defense charms = 8,000,000 (estimate)
Apothecary items = 4,780,000 (estimate)

So lets do the math:

3,700,000 + 8,000,000 + 4,780,000 = 16,480,000 cost wise (1 plat charm and other items)

2,500,000 - 16,480,000 = -13,980,000 (estimate)
1,250,000 - 16,480,000 = -15,230,000 (estimate)
1,000,000 - 16,480,000 = -15,480,000 (estimate)

This ofcourse depends on HP charm, defense charm, attack charm, and apothecary usage. However, Just because factions hold land doesn't mean they are making a profit off doing so. Yes, It helps cushion the cost to TW but it doesn't give as huge of an advantage as people think.

Unless, ofc, if the faction is smart enough not to pay salary but instead merchant with billions of land money and fund people's gears in turn.

Ariella_ - Lost City · January 2012

Thats why everyone should join LC. **** the other servers. Lets form a super-server.

Aubree - Dreamweaver · January 2012

Fintan - Lost City wrote: »

Long post has been made many times in the past few years. (Believe it or not, the problem is not specific to this version of Perfect World and even predates PWI!)

However, there are no "good" solutions. The two bandied about repeatedly are:

1) Land-holding limits:

This won't work as then you'll just have their alts in other factions. So it'll be the same people, with different map colors.

2) Regular map resets:

There actually are times when the maps aren't dominated. Lost City is actually at a good spot right now; no one's going to take over the whole map anytime soon, but there's also activity happening. There's even the chance here and there for new colors to show up still. Resetting maps at times like this would just be counterproductive as it would actually encourage people to get into "the" faction so they don't get screwed by the resets.

There are other suggestions, too, of course. But these are the two most often suggested (and you suggested both, at least obliquely).

Basically, once all the servers stabilize, they need to announce a reset. This seems to happen about the same time as each expansion. There's rumbling of such coming soon, so we shall see, eh? b:bye

Correct me if I am wrong:

The official rules used to state that no faction could own more then x amount of lvl2 territories or something to that effect. If that rule was still in place no one faction could own all the land.

MoonsMyst - Heavens Tear · January 2012

i dont like pvp or tw but i agree that limitin faction to example holdin max 20 lands or les would be big improvment in TW

Olbaze - Sanctuary · January 2012

Divine_Death - Harshlands wrote: »

Unless, ofc, if the faction is smart enough not to pay salary but instead merchant with billions of land money and fund people's gears in turn.

That'd require some convincing. Of course, if you're talking about earning 1m a week from TW, then it'd be easy, as 1m/week is pocket change to most people, especially with BH100 yielding an average of like 800k coins per day.

But trusting some guy(s) with billions of coin to not walk away with it? There would probably be lots of people who'd be unwilling to take the "risk". Monkey economics.

Aubree - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Correct me if I am wrong:

The official rules used to state that no faction could own more then x amount of lvl2 territories or something to that effect. If that rule was still in place no one faction could own all the land.

The same rules also stated that you can't fly in TW. From the sound of it, the rules were a mixture of what is physically possible in the game and what is "fair". And then there was that whole thing about small factions not being allowed to bid.

Basically, any "rule" that isn't hardcoded into the game isn't a rule at all, just a guideline waiting to be broken.

Limiting the number of lands a faction can hold will either result in the top faction making alt factions or a deadlock with the highest rankings factions being unable to attack at all due to having the maximum number of allowed territories. And do you really think the top factions would just go "Well ok, that allows more people to own land, it's all cool" after being forced to either give up their land or to defend against extremely weak factions forever due to all the competitive factions being unable to declare attacks due to the cap?

Resetting the map is also kinda ridiculous. There's 51 territories, meaning that it'll take at least 51 weeks for any single faction to take over the whole map, assuming that they can somehow not only declare an attack every week, but also win and never lose a defense. And a faction that is able to go through 51 weeks of being completely undefeated sure as hell deserves to keep the map. Not to mention that if the reset was time-based, the TW factions would have be very seasonal, which would put a massive dent to PWE's profits. If the reset was based on quantity of lands, the top factions could deliberately leave some lands for other factions, possibly their own alt faction.

Also, the gold has no relation to TW, as was evident by the period when TW payment was in mirages. It's the sales that PWE puts on that push the gold prices. Also, Tokens of Best Luck bring tons more coin into the circulation than TW.

Finally, even the best faction has a limit of 200 members. Certainly there's got to be more than 200 competitive PvPers on every server. Heck, there's probably more than 200 +10-12 R9s on each server.

__Serpent__ - Lost City · January 2012

Gotta love the Lost city Server.. We got a total of 5 factions who own turf. 4 big ones, and 1 new one that just popped outta no where. Come and join. Let the "end game" faction be by themselves. While everyone in LC will be having a good'o time!b:victory

QuakeX - Lost City · January 2012

the biggest guild should be able to hold as many land as they can, at the same time they must have the ability to defend them all. so maybe the limit to a daily tw for 1 faction to defend is raised to at least 4 or 5 instead of 3, making it nearly impossible or extremely hard to defend all the lands.

so if u want more lands, u will have to work that much harder to keep it.

Saint_Helens - Lost City · January 2012

Ya know what gets me is the amount of QQing that happens over what is essentually ones and zeroes. Come on people if the game is no longer fun to you then just quit. No changes will be happening cause if PWE implemented something like what the original poster really wants then PWI as we all know it will end cause PWE wouldn't have the income to keep it free to play.

PWI does not equal reality.

Nyxyo - Harshlands · January 2012

you gotta be kidding if you say that main guilds waste any cash in a 5 min tw...i am willing to bet they have same hp charm for months now...

reset was a very good idea ..many guilds had fun for while...also i like the idea of not be able to hold all the lands...maybe half of them? and even if they make alt guild you can't account rank9 gear so there for....

another thing was if MG involved in bidding and set in same time next 3 most powerful guilds ..but as it is they dont even care about the fake bids so that is not gonna happen...

at this point in HL even if you get 3 stack vs catalist ...who is gonna be..

-crimson wil bring 80
-kylin bring 40?!
-valhala bring ?!?
-might be mayhem to bring more then 40 but that is it..

we got to the point that is nothing to be done...

i myself don't care much they get all land and such but i wish we have reset again ...the small guilds-3 hours tw was like most fun i ever had in this game

Demaulicus - Heavens Tear · January 2012

Nyxyo - Harshlands wrote: »

you gotta be kidding if you say that main guilds waste any cash in a 5 min tw...i am willing to bet they have same hp charm for months now...

reset was a very good idea ..many guilds had fun for while...also i like the idea of not be able to hold all the lands...maybe half of them? and even if they make alt guild you can't account rank9 gear so there for....

another thing was if MG involved in bidding and set in same time next 3 most powerful guilds ..but as it is they dont even care about the fake bids so that is not gonna happen...

at this point in HL even if you get 3 stack vs catalist ...who is gonna be..

-crimson wil bring 80
-kylin bring 40?!
-valhala bring ?!?
-might be mayhem to bring more then 40 but that is it..

we got to the point that is nothing to be done...

i myself don't care much they get all land and such but i wish we have reset again ...the small guilds-3 hours tw was like most fun i ever had in this game

Well that is HL as an individual server not PWI as a whole. On Heaven's Tear there is Enrage, GoldDgrz, Radiance, and other factions that TW. I myself am in Enrage but if we get a 3 way gank it pushes TW to over 1 hour as we have to shuffle our members into various TWs. Can't help that most factions having issues are unable to get the strategy and player base to compete. I've been on both ends of the TW system. However, Not once did I complain about it. One time I made a suggestion for a tier system yes but not flat out say one faction can't hold the map. TW is about earning what you fight for not having a free handout.

Gaara_Cleric - Lost City · January 2012

This looks like a pointless thread like ruserious complaining over the fact one faction is stronger then yours heres some pointers.

1. slap yourself across your face wake the heck up

2. Grow a set and get your faction or yourself better which ever you need

3. Play the game and have fun you all complain complain complain.

I would have quit this game a long time ago but even I have fun playing even though im not +10 or +12 who gives a flying stick of what I am so I get my butt kicked by a lot of people get 1 shot big whoop. Guess what I still enjoy this game a lot I wish I had higher refines like +10 at least but ill manage until then I hope you learn from my 3 pointers here.

gyroki · January 2012

I already posted already once a solution (even when its ofc not making any sense here to post something cz no responsible person with the power to change something is reading it).

Factions which owns e.g. 2-5 lands should only be able to get attacked by 1 faction per week.

Factions which owns e.g. 10-15 lands should only be able to get attacked by 2 faction per week.

Factions which owns e.g. 20 lands should only be able to get attacked by 10 factions per week, and all attacks should start at the exatly same second.

Numbers r not fix and can be discussed. The sense of my system is: when there is a faction with e.g. all lands and gets attacked by 40 factions at the same second, they have NO chance to defend them all, even when they have 200 active ppl which have all full r9/+12 toons, tons of hp charms and inventory stuffed with def charms and land owner pots.

But ofc... it wont happen lol. Even when this is an easy fix and player base would appreciate it.

_Petal_ - Harshlands · January 2012

Nyxyo - Harshlands wrote: »

-might be mayhem to bring more then 40 but that is it..
i myself don't care much they get all land and such but i wish we have reset again ...the small guilds-3 hours tw was like most fun i ever had in this game

They brought 66 to their last TW, against around 30 or so Catalysts.

....and were wiped out in 8 minutes. Eight.
You have to understand that their minimum requirement for gear and level is a 9x toon in NOTHING LESS than TT90 green. More than 80% of the faction is over 100, and an equal amount of those characters over 100 are in Nirvana, R8, and a good chunk in R9.

But they still hold for 8 minutes.

Harshlands has been kept occupied by the same people over the course of two years now. At least you could fight back against people in the old school maps like Kingdom or Over9k--every time a Catalyst or two shows up to a major PvP area, it dies immediately.

And it wouldn't honestly have been so bad if the four factions who COULD HAVE done something had actually pulled their heads out their arses: Crimson, Kylin, Mayhem, and Valhalla.
But no, Crimson and Kylin got butthurt over one another, refusing to work together, instead of stacking the mofos when they had the chance. Then Kylin decides to allow Catalyst alts into faction just to beat Crimson, and (surprise) get rolled by Catalyst from behind.

And now Crimson, in their infiniate wisdom, has decided to draw a truce with Catalyst.
AsheZ, with all due respect....what kind of pineapple-scented crack were you smoking when you decided to do that? You're essentially drawing up a truce with the same people you JUST fought not one expansion ago--saving your own **** (temporarily) while you feed the rest of the map to the dogs. And you don't think they're not going to break that treaty---they backstabbed Kylin, what makes you so different?
So much for you being "saviors" in the Zulu days; what a joke you've become. As a former Crimson, I can honestly say that action has put my respect for you down the toilet.

Other servers simply don't get it, because it's not their problem. Complaining to them about a TW fix is like trying to get the actual developers to do a TW fix. We honestly could care less if your server is doing fine--we're not trying to compare apples to watermelons; we're trying to tell you that our server is constantly buttfvcked by the same people over, and over, and over again.

Aquilez - Sanctuary · January 2012

imo, if things are that bad...
1:start talking with people from other factions, make allies, recruit more, try to help faction members.
2: dont TW anymore or go to a new server

most of times a faction start rulling TW, is because other factions loose time fighting eachother while the "bad" faction gets stronger and then when 1 or 2 of the rest of TW factions finally decide to try stop that faction, its too late

Mitachi - Dreamweaver · January 2012

Aubree - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Correct me if I am wrong:

The official rules used to state that no faction could own more then x amount of lvl2 territories or something to that effect. If that rule was still in place no one faction could own all the land.

Not that it matters they don't even follow their own ToS and let the goons glitchers run free.

Mastersworde - Raging Tide · January 2012

What PWI also could do is sending several attacks like wrait attacks to them so it TW stays intressting too for those factions who have a piece of land(like the more pieces of land they have the harder will the attack be )

if they win they keep land if they lose it'll be a resetted piece

I'm not saying that this will work but it would be a challange for the PPl who own the map
and so the lower factions can try get a piece too cuz the bigger factions will be busy with killing those wrait attacks

MageMERC - Harshlands · January 2012

The answer is not map-resetting. This is just punishing the successful.

The answer is changing the number of TW's to unlimited. Why should there be a limit anyway - it makes no sense to me. The natural order would then dictate who can hold more than one territory (or 2,3,4) and who cant.

Imagine if, on any given day there were 20 TW's going on at the same time. I'm dam well sure Cata wont be able to succeed in 20 fights simultaneously.

But rewards need to change to reward those able and WILLING to hold multiple territory.

The whole concept of TW would be way more dynamic and many people, who'd never have and never will get a chance previously, could get involved.

Longknife - Harshlands · January 2012

Nyxyo - Harshlands wrote: »

at this point in HL even if you get 3 stack vs catalist ...who is gonna be..

-crimson wil bring 80
-kylin bring 40?!
-valhala bring ?!?
-might be mayhem to bring more then 40 but that is it..

we got to the point that is nothing to be done...

How dare you forget the awesome power of Crimson-****ing-Jr.

X\_Tegus_/X - Harshlands · January 2012

Crimson Mawfawkin Jooniorrrrrrrr

Manostra - Harshlands · January 2012

Crimson JR hold also a big part of Cata alts so it dosnt count

@TE
Its always the same bla bla

So Cata hold power and it wont change anytime so what ? The strong rule the others are left out thats how humans are.

Limiting Lands = more alt factions = same result
And nobody will ally to defeat cata because everyone hate each other. There is so much hate around i was shocked to read trough this.

But i fail to see the Problem, so what if cata dominate the map and have a ****ing awesome income and gear up their officers ? So what if they monopolize some items and deney everyone else ? For about 99.9% of all Harshland Players TW means NOTHING it dosnt concern them. And with that hyper inflation in coins the day 1 billion is pocket change is comming closer and closer. Some day the tw monney reward wont mean anything anymore.

The only sad point is the absence of nice tw battles but cata does suffer this too. However if cata would start losing for whatever reason their numbers would drop dramaticaly because a huge number of their current players is not interested in tw, they just come because the win is granted, they just here because it have some advantages to be in cata and they dont have to offer much in return aside from being nice geared, they are not loyal.

Gwendolynne - Heavens Tear · January 2012

Oooorrr you guys could soldier up and get a guild togehter that can combat the other faction... if ya'll check your egos at the door you CANNOT tell me that only ONE guild has all the R9s and blah balh.. besides its not all about gear anyway... Its about practice, and teamwork...

Tatuaje - Lost City · January 2012

I never understood why there is a limit to how many territories a Faction can defend at one time. There should be no limit in my opinion.

It just that smiple. Make no limit and it should make the Map change constantly each week. I am willing to bet there would be a lot more Faction involved in TW.

Nyxyo - Harshlands · January 2012

Longknife - Harshlands wrote: »

How dare you forget the awesome power of Crimson-****ing-Jr.

haha is funy i actually thought about crimsonjr but i had no clue if you have 10-20-30 ppl so i let outb:surrender

unlimited tw sounds chaos and fun...i am in lol i don't care lands i want fun

and to petal and other haters IF you don't like what crimson kylin valhala mayhem CRIMSONJR and other does...go pls make a guild...lead a guild...if is so easy and show us how is done?

we had some awesome kylin crimson tw from 1 to 3 hours... can't put a price on that...win some lose someb:victory

Cytte - Harshlands · January 2012

Manostra - Harshlands wrote: »

Crimson JR hold also a big part of Cata alts so it dosnt count

Nahh some Catas decided to take their alt out of CrimsonFrackingJr to take us on with their alt guild.

b:cool We'll wipe the floor with their blood

ZoracGallant - Raging Tide · January 2012

We kind of had the problem of 1 faction dominating the map before the last map reset. However (I forget when) another faction had already started fighting back, their sole purpose was to destory this other faction. And now that once strong faction is pretty much dead, they still have a core of r9 players, but they are recruiting all sorts of failed pwerlvlers now and well, having their faction name above you all the gets you hated instead of respected.

So what goes around comes around.

Deceptistar - Sanctuary · January 2012

killthelights wrote: »

block of text

well aside from the gold price which is pretty much the same on most servers including ours, id have to say...

sucks for you b:surrender i think your better off going to a server where players actually want to have more exciting TWs.

sanctuary is good...been here since 2008 and we did have server dominates but more or less there is always a ying and yang somewhere....

Michael_Dark - Lost City · January 2012

This topic again.

b:avoid

Help us, your our only hope.

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