Barbs and death

Vindis - Dreamweaver

Soo my barb is level 75 now. With like 10.5k hp, he isn't a pure vit build. I think he still has under 100 vit. He will have 150 vit at level 100, 300 str and 60 dex. Anyways, I was wondering how barbs die so often...

Tanking BH59 now I know that is not the case. Invoke is basically game breaking, allowing one to pull everything that exists. Magic mobs are not much of an issue due to Bestial Rage's Antimagic component.

Pull entire Drake path+Invoke+Roar+Sunder+Surf+Bestial Rage when below 50% health+Solid Shield when needed. That many mobs feels like infinite chi. So I can even spark+ after that at times and AoE the mobs again.

I did Glutt's path like that in 2 pulls (mostly because the others could not keep up). Squad was all in BH range, Psy, Mystic, Archer, Cleric, BM, and myself.

Idk, I just figured I would ask since I have seen so many barbs die back in the FC days and even in my archer's BHs like BH Warsong or Delta. Is this a result of them not learning their class properly? Bad refines? Aps barbs ruining real barbs? Could zeal have a factor and people are too used to fighting mobs 1 at a time? Or do most healers really suck that bad?

I feel that a squad with a legit barb and some decent aoes could do alot more than some aps toons. I mean, with a decent barb or seeker friend my faction does Lunar in 3 pulls. 3 pulls is a fast run. Aps doesn't make bosses die that much faster.., AoEs however make mobs die alot faster. Then again, that might just be me speaking as my archer as well (who can pull just like a Barb now, but has nowhere near his survivability from skills or his hp).

/rant

EDIT: To rephrase a question. My barb basically rarely dies. I think hes died twice and one of those times was trying to pull all of BH39 with a stupid vit build cleric healing <.<. So, when you do die as a barb, what reasons do you think made this happen? What are your thoughts while dead?

ItsAWolf - Archosaur

You say it's easy pulling in BH 59, and that you've seen barbs die while pulling in BH 100 and FC. They're not exactly the same difficulty level.

It mostly depends on your gear whether you can pull certain things and some barbs overestimate their abilities, leading to deaths. It's hard to judge the deaths of the barbs you mention as it is largely dependant on their gear whether it's fail to die in certain situations or not

Must - Lost City

Try to pull fc at that lvl now and see for urself... also are u charmed? most of barbs arent...
Back on the days u see barbies falling there wasnt BP now its alot easier just sunder one time on mobs and u get ur hp back...

And back on the days(again) those 80s 90s fcers where mains i mean ppl didnt knew the instance like the palm of their hands, now u probably do bhs fcs with somebody`s alt whos has done instances like those 1000 times...

And bh 59 is by far the easiest one to do...

And Vinis ur squad had two healers cmon........

Vindis - Dreamweaver

I guess..true that there weren't sins back then.

Idk, so it appears a combination of gears/skills not at level and..inexperience in instances?

I never really had that problem on my archer. I ran with some people that did it, had to learn everything in FC etc and just roll with it.

With how invincible I feel as a barb, I can't believe they ever die. Alot of them are so cautious it is painful in BH100 still (I mean, I can tank warsong mobs in BB so, just grab them all). I went and pulled half of Lunar back to BB since no one else seems to want to do it. I can fault some BMs for that too though, but that isn't supposed to be their primary job.

I guess, I am just confused at how easily barbs can pull and make things so easy for AoE classes to wipe out with little to no fear of death. Invoke is pretty broken.

Maybe because everyone else sucked it made barbs not used to actually tanking...

Also, I normally do 59 with just my brother's mystic healing 59 (aka no cleric buffs or IH stacks). But I don't do as big of pulls because he can't keep up. Rarely do I get enough AoE classes to actually do decent pulls at my level since its mostly sins and BMs that are trying to be aps before 99 like it is actually possible. I had to teach a BM how to HF the other day...running in to Venos that haven't even learned Lending Hand...

4 of 5 2 barb squads I've been in have been aps barbs. Their damage sucks and I don't know why people are opting for that route pre-99. Hopefully BH59 will weed out some more of the fails..(This barb is my first serious alt, so I haven't really gone through the cycle of leveling again for like 2 years, so I forgot how many fails there are. I knew they were out there with how many I see on random BHs, but I didn't know it was this bad..)

On topic of 59, I thought 51 was easier, but that is because 59 is mostly magic mobs.

Also, I do plan to try more and more ridiculous stuff on my barb as he levels, which is very very slowly. I think I will try to tank FC around 80. Should be pretty easy since I get 4 new gear pieces by then so I should have 12k+ hp. I duo'd my 20x3 with my brother's mystic.

I'm not HP charmed btw, but I am MP charmed. MP pool so low idk why you would waste using those pots when 1 plat MP will last until past 90 for sure.

I'm also leaning towards blaming Clerics for alot of Tank deaths and a general lack of AoE DDs. That and Barbs just not roaring and relying on zeal pulls. When my brother is offline I've had clerics look at me like I was crazy when I tried pulling stuff. I guess people are generally more incompetent than I think they can be.

(Really sorry for the rants, Im just sick lately and tired. Wanted comments as to why other people think barbs die when they are godless invincible tanks). Maybe its because of too many sins/BMs so they never learn squad dynamics anymore..

_Ghoul_ - Lost City

becouse game changed and so did the ppl.

see ppl no longer think on tank as vit build anymore but instead more dd better tank mentallity.

this in a way make new barb not barb anymore but dd with bigger hp pool.

iff you meet aps or dex barb i am sure they will we one on one mobs and its no joke.

see this is also why bm have low lv axes no spear and what sword,

aps make everything change.

that and how badly geared barb in this case are lving so fast in fc that they do not gear up.

i wouldent even be suprised to meet lv90 barbs with rank1 (lv30) armor and he not gearing up cos he waiting to lv100 to get r8.

XylolyX - Heavens Tear

I'm not really sure why you are dying so much... You say magic mobs aren't a problem, but they are for almost every other 60-90ish barbs. Your buffed mdef is probably around 3-5K, which means they hit hard. Unless your clerics are only spamming IH and no one is purifying, magic mobs will eat you alive.

It was rare for my barb to die in 59, mostly because I played within my limits and viewed it as my responsibility to keep the cleric alive above all others. I wouldn't want to pull most of those mobs at once for two reasons: 1) they're magic and 2) they're runners.

Just keep building your barb and learning your limits and you shouldn't die.

Vindis - Dreamweaver

_Ghoul_ - Lost City wrote: »

becouse game changed and so did the ppl.

see ppl no longer think on tank as vit build anymore but instead more dd better tank mentallity.

this in a way make new barb not barb anymore but dd with bigger hp pool.

iff you meet aps or dex barb i am sure they will we one on one mobs and its no joke.

see this is also why bm have low lv axes no spear and what sword,

aps make everything change.

that and how badly geared barb in this case are lving so fast in fc that they do not gear up.

i wouldent even be suprised to meet lv90 barbs with rank1 (lv30) armor and he not gearing up cos he waiting to lv100 to get r8.

Yeah, aps mindset kinda fails. More other players need to take charge and show the aps there are faster ways of doing instances. A Pro barb or Seeker, and afew AoEs (Wiz/Psy/Archer) can run most instances faster than aps toons just because they can do all the mobs in afew pulls (Lunar in 3 pulls ftw ).

Imagine doing pulls like in Delta or FC, but doing that in EVERY instance. Its pretty fun to me at least, and makes things interesting for the entire squad. Stunlocking 1 mob at a time is fun, but it gets boring. Bosses die anyways xD.

@XylolyX: I don't really die much. Once in 39 trying to pull half the instance but thats because the cleric was vit build >.>. And once when my brother afk'd and I didn't know xD. Point of my post was that I do not understand how barbs die in general. They are invincible.

ItsAWolf - Archosaur

Barbs die in FC when they decide to pull all the magic mobs together with bishops, or try to pull way too many physical mobs when there is no cleric and they're not charmed and don't have potions. I've seen both of those happen.

In other instances they'll also die when the seekers vortex is canceled by mobs they pulled and the seeker dies, resulting quickly in the death of cleric and the rest. I've done that b:chuckle Figured I could multi my seeker + barb to do 89 hell a bit faster, but forgot those nasty horses were there a bit earlier than expected.

Vindis - Dreamweaver

ItsAWolf - Archosaur wrote: »

Barbs die in FC when they decide to pull all the magic mobs together with bishops, or try to pull way too many physical mobs when there is no cleric and they're not charmed and don't have potions. I've seen both of those happen.

In other instances they'll also die when the seekers vortex is canceled by mobs they pulled and the seeker dies, resulting quickly in the death of cleric and the rest. I've done that b:chuckle Figured I could multi my seeker + barb to do 89 hell a bit faster, but forgot those nasty horses were there a bit earlier than expected.

Lol I totally did the ranger thing with my archer tanking/pulling for a BH squad :X. Forgot about the aoe because I hadn't been in there in like a year, I actually lived with crab meats, but poor cleric/others. xD

Idk, I can't wait for my barb to hit 100...should probably just hyper him some instead of BH leveling the old fashioned way...

Sarrafeline - Sanctuary

ItsAWolf - Archosaur wrote: »

Barbs die in FC when they decide to pull all the magic mobs together with bishops, or try to pull way too many physical mobs when there is no cleric and they're not charmed and don't have potions. I've seen both of those happen.

In other instances they'll also die when the seekers vortex is canceled by mobs they pulled and the seeker dies, resulting quickly in the death of cleric and the rest. I've done that b:chuckle Figured I could multi my seeker + barb to do 89 hell a bit faster, but forgot those nasty horses were there a bit earlier than expected.

I prefer to not pull the bishops groups. I let someone go up and stun the bishop, then I will pull aggro off them with roar.

As for the magic pull...

Get yourself a high dex genie and ToP. Seriously, I can pull the magic pulls in FCC with just using ToP and a few crab meats. I can also tank runewolf's slashes just using ToP, no spark resist at all. ToP on my barb will recover approx 10k HP. It's a trash genie, 30/70 LP and I'm not bothering to level it more. I have a nice genie waiting at level 90 for my Barb, I will use that genie at 90.

Solid Shield + Invoke + mob attack with a slow effect = 0.1 M/S run speed. b:avoid

Sakubatou - Sanctuary

My barb used to rarely die, lol. Now he dies a bit more because he's *cue hero music* Super Barb. I die when I take on alot more than I can handle. I could do smaller safer pulls but where is the fun in that?

Things happen like you'll do a pull of what you can handle, and then someone else will pull more mobs and you aggro them too because they're there.

Or you pull, get to the end and invoke *interuptted* invoke *interuptted* invoke *interuptted* invoke *interuptted* invoke *interuptted* invoke *interuptted* invoke *interuptted* invoke *interuptted* invoke *interuptted* dead.

Or as you are pulling you get a decent poison stack on you and it eats you through invoke, and the cleric tries stacking instead of purifying.

Or you decide to do a pull clericless using invoke+ ToP and food and the DDs don't kill the mobs fast enough before invoke is gone.



My point is, we have huge hp pools and sexy amounts of defense which we can easily overestimate because giant pulls and dangerous amounts of mobs are fun.

Vindis - Dreamweaver

Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »

My barb used to rarely die, lol. Now he dies a bit more because he's *cue hero music* Super Barb. I die when I take on alot more than I can handle. I could do smaller safer pulls but where is the fun in that?

Things happen like you'll do a pull of what you can handle, and then someone else will pull more mobs and you aggro them too because they're there.

Or you pull, get to the end and invoke *interuptted* invoke *interuptted* invoke *interuptted* invoke *interuptted* invoke *interuptted* invoke *interuptted* invoke *interuptted* invoke *interuptted* invoke *interuptted* dead.

Or as you are pulling you get a decent poison stack on you and it eats you through invoke, and the cleric tries stacking instead of purifying.

Or you decide to do a pull clericless using invoke+ ToP and food and the DDs don't kill the mobs fast enough before invoke is gone.



My point is, we have huge hp pools and sexy amounts of defense which we can easily overestimate because giant pulls and dangerous amounts of mobs are fun.

This is pretty much my feeling on barbs. I totally do the same when I play a barb because that is what I would want a barb to do in a squad with my main. And honestly, you do feel invincible. Its awesome lol.

I love them in squads. I truthfully honestly feel like most of the time I can run an Aba or Lunar faster with a barb pulling the whole instance so I can AoE it rather than zeal pull and 6v1 each mob. Sure, stunlocking with Aim Low+Stun is fun and all (since most random BMs/Sins seem prone to not really care that they can't keep aggro from me unsparked or expect me to let them solo the mobs or soemthing), but sometimes I just want to BoA **** xD. My squad generally has a Wiz and Archer in it at all times and I still meet a lot of random barbs that won't pull many mobs or even bother trying to keep aggro. It could be bad habits picked up from squads without legit AoE DDs in them, or it could be just laziness. /MyThoughts

_Ghoul_ - Lost City

its the new mentality of 1vs1 mob wish have changed how the barb do things now days.

its not hard to see a barb with barely 10k hp in human or less then a 16k+ barb.

the barb with 16k will ofc wana do big pulls the one with less then 10k will we a tiger who do small pulls.

as i said its normal to see a aps barb or dex barb then a normal vit barb in todays pwi
and these barb are the one you having as you kitty in the party so its no suprise.

Sarrafeline - Sanctuary

There's really nothing WRONG with a Dex or Str barb. You just can't pull the entire instance in FCC like a Vit Barb could.

I've got epic gears on my Barb, Warsoul Helm +10 with Vit shards in it and a LUAD. I've got 18k, almost 19k, but... Unless I'm using Arma, I don't really do Damage. Granted, with Bloodbath on, I still have 16.6k HP, but without it, I don't hit 90% of the time.

Going Str Demon at 90 I think, with APS gear but minimum Dex. I still plan on having 20k HP in human form though.

Sakubatou - Sanctuary

Sarrafeline - Sanctuary wrote: »

There's really nothing WRONG with a Dex or Str barb. You just can't pull the entire instance in FCC like a Vit Barb could.

Lol, you only need about 15k hp hp and reasonable refines to do a full FCC pull (front to back and back again) so its easily doable by any barb build. Delta and 3-3 you need 16k to do comfortably (with a cleric) or 14k and a charm. Full strength or aps builds can still have 40k endgame hp (30k and JoSD sharding would be better) so there really is nothing in PvE that any build of barb can't do once geared up.

Its in PvP that vit vs str/aps starts becoming important because wizard can crit 16k+ and vit would help give you mdef and hp, as well as give just that little edge between charm ticks.

CrusherJam - Dreamweaver

Kitties are meat shields unless you choose to be a claw barb.

I have no pulling FC except a bit of difficulty pulling

the magic hall. I've been doing it since lvl 85.

I am not a APS barb, i am a (almost) pure vit sage barb with most of my sage skills.

I mostly hang with maxed out r8 or nirvy gear sins or r8 seekers and come to accept the fact

that i don't hold Arago for long

also being on a PvE server a HP charm is useless unless you have lots of money

to keep buying them

The people around me understand what my build is that's why in things like Delta

they know not to take arago and hold it at times.

just understand that you will not kill fast no matter how big you are

understand your role and you will enjoy your barb.

Hurrdurr - Lothranis

Sarrafeline - Sanctuary wrote: »

There's really nothing WRONG with a Dex or Str barb, as long as you have decent refines and/or sharding.

Fixed for more accuracy. A fist/str barb could easily surpass the survivability of an average refined barb if they could farm +10.

Must - Lost City

I think most of deaths on squads comes on not paying attencion or doing dumb things or just being on the moon that momment, i had my share of stupidity but overall everyone does....

But last night on GV wave 2 i found out a new reason to die, wich is bad gear... on all waves i had and i mean always agro from mobs.... dam im a barb lol i know my jobs is to get agro but really all the time???

Squad consisted by lvls 100 (was bh) cleric/ 2 bms / sin /me archer.

Bm 1 axes tt90 +3........

bm 2 axes calamity +1 (please..)

Archer tt80 gold bow (really)

Sin was good +5 nv g 13

Cleric dont remeber but doesnt matter anyways

Has for me i have rank8 +5 hammer and i got 19700k hp on tiger form

I really done all that i can to hold mobs and survive, but wasnt enough has the waves kept goring on mobs....


Oh and another stupid way of diyng is thinking you are OP for the mobs on instances ussually happens on sins b:laugh

Vindis - Dreamweaver

You know, maining a DD class intandem with another (my brother mains a wiz), I think I might neglect, at least in my mind, how bad some other aoe/DD classes are in game. Alot of people gimp squads with having bad armor/weps and just being generally useless overall. I can mostly tank and between myself and my brother, we prevent alot of people from ever taking damage by stacking Stun/Aim Low/Seal on mobs. And then the sin tanks the boss (or me, or it just dies if we have a veno and a bm lol).

I have kind of started to ask people to have at least decent, relatively attainable gear. r8+4 is not so hard to get. Even TT99+5 is better than nothing.

Then again, if everyone perceives DDs in pwi how I did in FW (my brother and I mained a barb/priest, so we had pro heals on lock and rly nice gear. Would run into tanks/DDs that didn't aggro and didn't even try to save the healers when they did have aggro lol)

but I digress...

Barbs are awesome. I really miss them with my archer. I agree, crappy DDs can definitely make squads tough though. At the moment, my barb (lvl 76) is hating having some squads in 59 with Bms/other barbs that think they are aps, sins that think they are invincible, archers that can't aggro manage and complain when i lose aggro (ream physically can't hold aggro against -int geared slingshots lol), psys that won't turn off Black Voodoo and ofc bad clerics. At least being a pro barb can make bad clerics (vit build) into decent ones. Bad DDs make runs take forever though (sometimes I tank in human now just because with Zerk spark+ crits from my Cala+4s I can keep aggro from bad sins and other slow casters/bms that think they are aps ; 47k crit ftw).

/rant

ItsAWolf - Archosaur

Sarrafeline - Sanctuary wrote: »

I prefer to not pull the bishops groups. I let someone go up and stun the bishop, then I will pull aggro off them with roar.

As for the magic pull...

Get yourself a high dex genie and ToP. Seriously, I can pull the magic pulls in FCC with just using ToP and a few crab meats. I can also tank runewolf's slashes just using ToP, no spark resist at all. ToP on my barb will recover approx 10k HP. It's a trash genie, 30/70 LP and I'm not bothering to level it more. I have a nice genie waiting at level 90 for my Barb, I will use that genie at 90.

Solid Shield + Invoke + mob attack with a slow effect = 0.1 M/S run speed. b:avoid

I don't have any issues myself, was just pointing out where I've seen other barbs die and what reasons they came up with.

Sakubatou - Sanctuary

Thought I'd throw this in here for the lols:

Died the other day pulling for a metal squad. It was a bunch of friends I have that are... well overgeared. I am a claw barbs with 17.4k hp in tiger form, I think even the archer had around 12k barb buffed, the bm 18k, the sin 13k... Anyways, I decided to pull the entire first 3 groups on the straight path. Invoked, ran in, rounded them all up and... $h*#. I had my lame genie on that I use for events that is 40/70 and only has 2 skills, frenzy and extreme poison. Normally I have one with Alpha male for aggro until I can get back to bb and roar.

So I stand there tanking the damage waiting for a split second when I'm not silenced to roar because I don't want to bring the mobs back to the bb and other players unaggroed. I stayed perma silenced till I died, lol. It looked super pro and I had to run back, get rebuffed, rebuild chi, switch genies and explained what happened before I could do the pull again. After that the run took about 4 minutes, lol.

Sarrafeline - Sanctuary

Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »

Thought I'd throw this in here for the lols:

Died the other day pulling for a metal squad. It was a bunch of friends I have that are... well overgeared. I am a claw barbs with 17.4k hp in tiger form, I think even the archer had around 12k barb buffed, the bm 18k, the sin 13k... Anyways, I decided to pull the entire first 3 groups on the straight path. Invoked, ran in, rounded them all up and... $h*#. I had my lame genie on that I use for events that is 40/70 and only has 2 skills, frenzy and extreme poison. Normally I have one with Alpha male for aggro until I can get back to bb and roar.

So I stand there tanking the damage waiting for a split second when I'm not silenced to roar because I don't want to bring the mobs back to the bb and other players unaggroed. I stayed perma silenced till I died, lol. It looked super pro and I had to run back, get rebuffed, rebuild chi, switch genies and explained what happened before I could do the pull again. After that the run took about 4 minutes, lol.

Did taht on my Sin...

Only had a 105 Psy with full JOSD pull. b:avoid

Vindis - Dreamweaver

I pulled big room twice today on my barb (lvls 75 and 76).

I have like 10.7k hp.

First time with 2 mystics I did half pulls and didnt realize i didnt have crabs, but everything went well and i lived lol.

Invoke -> Sunder -> Surf -> Human -> Slam -> Tiger -> run back to BB

2nd time I died. Was my first attempt on full pull

Squad had a cleric instead of second mystic, and instead of a BM we had a sin.

Invoke -> Brief pause from not realizing I had my brother's mystic selected from chi duel -> Surf Impact -> Roar -> Run back -> Sunder -> Die

I think poor vortex placement played a part there, but I also think that no one using AD played a part . That and my general lack of streamlining a good pull skill combo.

I think atm, my ideal set up is:

Pull them all -> Bestial Rage -> Invoke -> Roar -> Sunder -> Surf -> Frighten -> Hope everything is dead after 20 seconds xD

Any pro tips from some legit barbs? Most of the barbs I FC'd with quit game :P. So I just kind of wing it atm lol.

Also, thinking of not statting so much vit (aiming for 150 at 100 atm), almost 11k hp already and I'm not lvl 80 or with decent refines (most gear is +2 or +3). Opinions on Vit?

Bobobejumbo - Raging Tide

Here is how I do my FC pulls. Works perfectly every time.

First Pull: Down hallway, hit holy path about 2 seconds before aggro range of last group before having to turn around and duck into the hall way. Munch a crab as i enter the bigger room. Continue down hallway, target shade (if the sin has already killed it your moving too slow, speed up). Once your within 50 meters of shade, Holy Path again, stop on a dime at shade. While Holy Pathing i pop bestial rage. Invoke, Roar, Sunder, Surf. For me, everything is dead by then.

Second Pull: (3rd shade is all i've ever done, i don't understand this 2nd shade thing). Watch Sin solo first shade. Count how many seconds it takes for it to happen. Watch sin buffs/debuffs on 2nd shade to see when he pops out of stealth. Start counting. Within 5 seconds of how long it took him to solo the first shade, i begin running in. Run down the hallway and turn right. Munch a crab. Turn left into passage and Holy Path as soon as they cast movement debuff. Munch a crab. Continue toward shade. Munch a crab if needed. Holy Path within 50 meters, popping rage while running. Invoke, Roar, Sunder where it catches melee and ranged mobs, surf, stand up and cast onslaught, swell, back into tiger, surf. Everything should be dead.

3rd pull: If sins were kind enough to take out bishops already, pull to shade. Holy Path when close, rage, invoke, roar, sunder, surf. If they didn't kill bishops, work the groups and you progress down the hall =\

Rock/Sin Pull: Run to rock, get on top. Even if doing a sin pull I do this, practice makes perfect afterall.

First Hyper pull: Leaving the boss room, continue down the passage to the end of the hall. At end of hall, hug left wall, wide sweeping arc to right wall as you turn around. (don't just reverse direction and run through the mobs. You take damage that way...) Do NOT holy path here, mobs have a fondness for resetting at this part. Head into boss room. Holy Path to stopping point, munch crab(preemptive), rage, invoke, roar, sunder, surf.

Can't really classify anything else as a "pull" until the heads room.

Big room pull: Start at one side, work way around room to other side. Holy Path to destination, rage, invoke, roar, sunder, surf, slam, Armageddon, bloodbath, start heads.


Well that is how I handle my pulls. I noticed Sabu mentioned using Invoke WHILE pulling. I'm curious as to where this is necessary? I know your pulling the instance front to back but i still don't see the need for invoking while your still moving. Not nit-picking, genuinely curious.

Vindis some of my tactics (ie standing up for a quick onslaught) are related to demon skill bonuses in case you were wondering. You seem to be doing just fine IMO though. Also as far as Vit goes, I stopped adding once I achieved 15k in tiger. While more wouldn't hurt, I didn't see anymore as necessary. Just threw the rest in dex, as i had enough str for TT90 gold axes already and restatted at 99 for a claw build anyways.

Anyways, thats just me. May not be the best methods, but they are my methods, and they work well for me.

Vindis - Dreamweaver

Bobobejumbo - Raging Tide wrote: »

Here is how I do my FC pulls. Works perfectly every time. [...]

Vindis some of my tactics (ie standing up for a quick onslaught) are related to demon skill bonuses in case you were wondering. You seem to be doing just fine IMO though. Also as far as Vit goes, I stopped adding once I achieved 15k in tiger. While more wouldn't hurt, I didn't see anymore as necessary. Just threw the rest in dex, as i had enough str for TT90 gold axes already and restatted at 99 for a claw build anyways.

Anyways, thats just me. May not be the best methods, but they are my methods, and they work well for me.

Thanks for the response. Yeah, my barb will probably be sage, so I won't be able to take demon benefits, but I do plan to stop adding so much vit. I guess I just need to work on timing abit more, 2nd FC can't always be perfect. Sometimes I die while channing Invoke, sometimes I guess it wears out because I'm still getting placements correct. I get worried about DDs stealing aggro, I'm not really 100% on how much aggro I can hold when there are archers and wizards 8 or so levels above me lol (Memories of my brother and I stealing from numerous barbs and dying). Roar and all that is max though for current level. Maybe I shouldn't pull full room at level 76 with no BM xD. I haven't died many times on my barb aside from recently in FC (Only went twice on him). And I only died in big room on full :P.

Must - Lost City

Vindus try to use Top or even solid shield whne something goes wrong....

The vit stats or not its really up to you...

What you want for you barb on lvl 100+? GVS/TTs/bhs?

Just a reminder the more vit the more hard hitting is your arma...

If my barb was 70x nowadays ill go claws, due to the facrt that i cant kill nothing without help , therefor ill focus on claws and try to max refine my end game gear...

But then again its only up to you...

Must - Lost City

Must - Lost City wrote: »

Vindus try to use Top or even solid shield whne something goes wrong....

The vit stats or not its really up to you...

What you want for you barb on lvl 100+? GVS/TTs/bhs?

Just a reminder the more vit the more hard hitting is your arma...

If my barb was 70x nowadays ill go claws, due to the facrt that i cant kill nothing without help , therefor ill focus on claws and try to max refine my end game gear...

But then again its only up to you...

PS: dont be greedy on pulling mobs while u are 70x and i think you prob die cause u lack the bms aura....

Traz - Dreamweaver

Must - Lost City wrote: »

Vindus try to use Top or even solid shield whne something goes wrong....

The vit stats or not its really up to you...

What you want for you barb on lvl 100+? GVS/TTs/bhs?

Just a reminder the more vit the more hard hitting is your arma...

If my barb was 70x nowadays ill go claws, due to the facrt that i cant kill nothing without help , therefor ill focus on claws and try to max refine my end game gear...

But then again its only up to you...

What's the point of an armageddon that never hits anything with a half decent amount of dexterity? I have about 20k standing HP with 3 base vitality for TW. The 200 dexterity I have adds more damage to my armageddon then pure vitality because I critical hit a **** ton more with my armageddon and I don't miss people (2 amber gems in weapon). You couple that with the fact I have GoF to proc with all the critical hits and I have no doubts I do more average damage then a pure vitality barb (even the 50k HP ones).

Must - Lost City

Traz - Dreamweaver wrote: »

What's the point of an armageddon that never hits anything with a half decent amount of dexterity? I have about 20k standing HP with 3 base vitality for TW. The 200 dexterity I have adds more damage to my armageddon then pure vitality because I critical hit a **** ton more with my armageddon and I don't miss people (2 amber gems in weapon). You couple that with the fact I have GoF to proc with all the critical hits and I have no doubts I do more average damage then a pure vitality barb (even the 50k HP ones).

The point is that no everyone can offord your gears.....

Traz - Dreamweaver

Must - Lost City wrote: »

The point is that no everyone can offord your gears.....

My gear is far from special. Saying you can't "afford" them is a sorry excuse. You put the time in you'll get the result.

Must - Lost City

Traz - Dreamweaver wrote: »

My gear is far from special. Saying you can't "afford" them is a sorry excuse. You put the time in you'll get the result.

Traz im not saying or insulting your post i just say not every player has the time spend hours to farm gears, cause sometimes life wont let.


Im not bad geared also, im just saying that not every barb has 20k standing... there so has to get another resource...